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Making a VGC guide, need opinions on what to add.

Discussion in 'VGC' started by CooltrainerAlan, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. CooltrainerAlan

    CooltrainerAlan

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
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    I'm helping some friends irl(I might put it online as well, but idk) get into the VGC game and plan to write a guide for them to use. I want it to be useful to newbies and people who know a little bit about battling already. These are the things I've got so far on my list of this to cover. This guide is for VGC12(since it is most similar to GBU) and will include VGC13 information too when available.

    VGC Guide Points/Index
    Beginners
    - EV training/EV Hotspots in BW1+2, Natures/Synchronize
    - IVs and how to get good ones.
    - Soft Resetting guide (will list popular legendaries, where to catch them, and their max stats with their most useful nature(s).(Might be moved to advanced)
    - Possible Catching strategy guide.(False Swipe, Mean Look, Spore etc.)
    - Strong Pokemon and Weak Pokemon (What not to do at a stoplight use.)
    Any player
    - Popular Strategies (TR, Sun, Rain, etc.)
    - Advanced Combonations (VolcTop, Disquake, Protexplosion, etc.)
    - Countering the "Metagame" and how Unique Pokemon give you an upperhand.
    - (Not certain on this one)Base Stats guide to popular Pokemon (What pokemon like Thundurus, Garchomp etc. stats are like at Lv.50 with certain spreads)
    - Movesets guide to VGC 12. (I don't think smogon's 1 set per VGC pokemon is enough)
    - Movests guide to VGC 13.
    Advanced information
    - Brief info on RNG abuse (IV TImefinding and PID advancing stuff)(5th gen)


    I think I've covered almost everything, anything else I should add/remove?
  2. M. Rock

    M. Rock

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    It's kind of hard to write a guide that encompasses all of this...there's a reason why some aspects have an entire guide dedicated to themselves. And each one of those guides is on Smogon already. If you want to get this published on Smogon, you have to talk to someone who moderates this part of the forum.....but no guarantees that anyone will say yes.

    Regardless of future plans, though, you should definitely include:
    - Sandstorm and Hail damage hits the Pokemon on the field in order of fastest to slowest. Residual damage from weather can be a good tool to scout anything that might be Choice Scarfed or holding an Iron Ball. This was in the 4th gen guide to Double Battles, but for some reason it was left out of the 5th gen one.
    - Calm Thundurus is very effective, and is rising in usage. Thundurus is very powerful and very popular, so there are a good number of n00bs that will want to use it and then read the onsite analysis and think that Timid is the only way to go.
    - Prediction should be covered. Yes, there is an on-site guide to prediction, and most of it can be applied universally, but there is sort of a different mindset to have in Doubles than in Singles.

    EDIT:
    - Substitute. It is an excellent move in VGC that can be learned by any Pokemon. It can be utilized effectively by just about any offensive Pokemon that isn't necessarily considered frail, and that doesn't need/doesn't have a third coverage move. Best examples are Latios (can avoid predicted Sucker Punches), Heatran, and Garchomp can be a pain with Sand Veil (in sandstorm) with Dragon Claw/Earthquake/Substitute/Protect. In fact, Sub+Protect is a good stalling/scouting strategy, as well as giving an extra layer of protection, drawing fire away from a partner, and avoiding the negative effects of Icy Wind.
    - Bulk is actually pretty important in the VGC12 metagame. Raw firepower is required to win a match, but you want your mons to be around longer to get more hits in or get more support in. This is why people run resist berries on things like Garchomp and Abomasnow (as opposed to a power item), why Cresselia is the premier support Pokemon, and part of why Calm Thundurus is so effective.
  3. CooltrainerAlan

    CooltrainerAlan

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    Jul 22, 2012
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    Alright thanks. I don't know where I'd put it online, probably on my dA or something. I will definetly mention that Thundurus, could you give me it's usual EV spread? I think I'll include Substitute as an all around good move, maybe even a section on protect and such. this makes me want to add a prediction section. I'll have to note that SS/Hail thing somewhere as well. Thanks for the help!
  4. M. Rock

    M. Rock

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    There's actually a YouTube video made by someone on Smogon about when to use Protect and how to use it. I'm blanking on the title and I forget who put it up, but it's there. I'll try to find it and edit this post with the link, it's a good video.

    Thundurus set:

    Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
    Nature: Calm
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP/76 Def/180 SpA
    - Substitute/Protect
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Thunder Wave
    Comments: Swagger and Taunt are good alternatives, depending on your team's needs. Swagger + Lum Berry Metagross is a pretty decent strategy, and Metagross can even abuse Earthquake alongside Thundurus. If you really wanted to, you could use an alternate EV spread of 252 HP/132 Def/4 SpA/116 SpD/4 Spe for more focus on defenses, but the drop in power is noticeable.
    252 HP/ 96 SpA/160 SpD could work well, though he's still physically weak.
    180 HP/4 Def/12 SpA/238 SpD/76 Spe @ Electric Gem (not sure about this one) OR
    Full HP and SpD @ Electric Gem

    I'll be honest, I've faced Calm Thundurus before, but never really found out what the spread is. I didn't even expect you to ask me about it. These are all spreads I pulled off of Pokecheck; it's not really a strategy that gets a lot of mainstream attention because most prefer the pure power. Don't take my word as gospel, this is just what I found.
    I believe that main reason to use Calm Thundurus is because he has excellent support options along with a good deal of power, but what is offputting is how frail he is, so this fixes that a little. People always assume Timid, so it has good surprise value when it survives and then hits back hard. The spreads that use 252 HP seem the most practical, since HP is the biggest factor in deciding bulk. The ones I fought had Sitrus Berry, and they were 1800+ players in the Autumn Friendly, so I assume that to be the superior item.
  5. CooltrainerAlan

    CooltrainerAlan

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    Hmm.. alright. Thanks for the info. Personally, looking at the set, I don't see why you'd use Thundurus>Zapdos if Zapdos gets All these moves and is bulkier. I guess it's because of Prankster.
  6. M. Rock

    M. Rock

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    Prankster and superior SpA. It's a very niche role, which is why it was uncommon, but it's almost become a trend among better players. It's definitely effective, world champ Ray Rizzo used one before and I believe a Japanese player that went to Worlds had one.
  7. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

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    Actually, Zapdos has the same SpA (unless you're talking about Thundurus-T), so it's basically just Prankster and higher base Speed.
  8. M. Rock

    M. Rock

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    No, Thundurus-I, I was just having a little brain fart writing this up and doing HW at the same time. Thanks voodoo

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