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Mamoswine (Analysis) [GP 0/2]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by sax king, Nov 13, 2010.

  1. sax king

    sax king

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    QC APPROVED [LOCOPOKE][FIREBURN]
    GP APPROVED [][]
    Mamoswine
    [​IMG]
    Serebii!

    [Overview]

    <p>Mamoswine has several things that set it apart from other pokemon. It is one of the few viable users of the move Ice Shard, a physical Ice type priority move. It also received the move Icicle Drop, which is currently the second strongest physical Ice move. The only threatening resistor of its STAB combo is Bronzong. All this is boosted by its high base 130 Atk stat. It happens to be a great anti-metagame pokemon, as it can easily kill many popular pokemon such as Garchomp, Salamence, and Doryuuzu. Unfortunately, it is weak to several other popular pokemon, such as Urgamoth and Shanderaa. It also faces competition as a revenge killer from Weavile.</p>

    [SET]


    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Ice Shard
    move 2: Icicle Drop
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Stone Edge
    Item: Choice Band / Life Orb
    Ability: Thick Fat
    Nature: Adamant / Jolly
    EVs.: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Mamoswine has magnificent attack that is deadly when combined with a STAB priority move and other strong STAB moves. Icicle Drop and Earthquake are its strongest STAB moves which hit hard and usually get neutral coverage. Stone Edge can also help it hit some important pokemon for SE damage, such as Gyarados and Urgamoth. It also allows it to hit some of the Rotom forms for neutral damage. But Ice Shard is what sets this set apart from other choice sets. Ice Shard helps it to revenge kill some of the most prominent pokemon in the metagame. This includes Garchomp, Salamence, the three genies, Breloom, and the Lati dragons. Mamoswine is one of the few viable users of this move, and he uses this move very well. </p>

    [ADDITIONAL OPTIONS]


    <p>Choosing the item is a difficult choice. Choice Band gives it much more power and allows it to fill the role of a wall breaker. It also means that it is stuck with base 80 Speed. Choice Band allows it to nail switch-ins after it scares off the opponent pokemon, yet afterwards it is more vulnerable and it will be outsped. Life Orb is a good item if Mamoswine want the added power but doesn't like being locked into one specific move, but it will be sacrificing some of its bulk and survivability. Choice Scarf can be used as well, yet it takes away from the raw power that Mamoswine packs. Rock Slide is also an option over Stone Edge as it offers better accuracy and reliability. It should be noted that Stone Edge always OHKOs Offensive variants of Gyarados after Stealth Rock damage, while Rock Slide does not. Superpower is a great move to have, seeing as fighting is a great attacking type, but being choice locked into a fighting move is just begging for a ghost type, and it is also illegal with Icicle Drop, Mamoswine's main move. It is also illegal with Thick Fat, as Thick Fat is Mamoswine's Dream World ability. A Jolly nature works well too, although it is not quite as useful as an Adamant one. Jolly allows Mamoswine to outspeed several pokemon such as Heatran, Smeargle, Kirikizan, and Breloom. However, most of these pokemon will either be scarfed, or will be killed by priority anyway, so it's not too useful.</p>

    [SET]


    name: Endeavor Lead
    move 1: Ice Shard
    move 2: Endeavor
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Stealth Rock
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Snow Cloak
    Natue: Adamant
    EVs.: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Mamoswine has both Endeavor and a priority attack, which makes him a great lead. Unlike other users of this strategy, Mamoswine is immune to all types of weather, so it won't be killed at the end of each turn. This allows him to score a cheap kill against offensive leads. They attack him, activate his focus sash, he uses Endeavor. Next turn, it strikes with priority. Against non-offensive leads, he can set up Stealth Rock and attack with spam Earthquake for damage. Mamoswine can be an effective endeavor lead that can reliably set up Sealth Rock.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL OPTIONS]
    <p>This set can always function mid game as well. If it is to be used in a non-lead position, a Life Orb is recommended over a Focus Sash however. Icicle Drop is an option over Earthquake for a different STAB. Icicle Drop can be useful because it always 2HKO's Hippowdon. It is also useful for bulky pokemon weak to Ice, such as Dragonite and Erufuun. The only disadvantage of this move is that it loses Earthquake, which is also STAB and is more powerful and allows it to take down Gigiasu and leads weak to ground. </p>

    [OPTIONAL CHANGES]
    <p>Mamoswine has respectable stats and a decent movepool which allows it to run several other sets. Mamoswine can use Bite to hit Ghost types and Psychic types, but it has limited use. Superpower is always an option, but it lowers both attack and defense, making it difficult to KO multiple pokemon in a row and is illegal with Thick Fat. A Substitute set can also see some success, as Mamoswine can 2HKO most of its counters. Mamoswine can use an Expert Belt to bluff a Choice Band. Mamoswine has a decent base 70 Special Attack stat so it can run a mixed set. It can use moves such as Ice Beam, Earth power, and Ancientpower. It can also be used well on a Hail team. It can abuse Snow Cloak's evasion boost and spam Blizzad. </p>

    [TEAM OPTIONS]
    <p>Offensive Mamoswine pairs up well with Flash Fire users such as Heatran. Heatran can absorb all the Fire type attacks aimed at Mamoswine and can hit back with a powerful Earth Power. It can also absorb any Gass or Seel moves and strike back on either of these types. The only problem is that it can't handle any water or fighting moves. Gyarados resists Fire, Steel, Fighting, and Water attacks aimed at Mamoswine and can benefit from Mamoswine's wall breaking abilities. Sazando works well with Mamoswine, as it can sweep easily without other dragons around and walls like Blissey gone. Any sweeper pairs up well with Mamoswine in actuallity, because Mamoswine can break down all of the walls on the opponent's team. Abomasnow works well with a hail themed Mamoswine, as it can break down water types and summon hail.</p>
    <p>Lead Mamoswine needs a strong, bulky ghost type to be paired up with it. Mamoswine attracts moves such as Fake Out and Hi Jump Kick, which should all be directed to a pokemon such as Desukan, Dusknoir, Burungeru, and Spiritomb. They can also soak up Flamethrowers and Surfs from leads like Politoed and Ninetales. They are used later as spin blockers as well, to prevent Stealth Rock from being removed. Burungeru works the best out of all of these as it resists many things that Mamoswine is weak to, wuch as fighting, water, fire, and steel.</p>

    [COUNTERS]
    <p>Steel types can really give Mamoswine a rough time. They can hit Mamoswine for super effective damage and can switch into an ice move. Scizor, Jirachi, Nattorei, and Lucario can all give Mamoswine a particularly hard time. Gyarados can easily set up on Mamoswine if it isn't locked into Stone Edge. Essentially reasonably bulky pokemon can switch into a resisted attack on a choice locked attack. Bronzong is the worst possible hing to switch into Mamoswine, as it's immune to Ground attacks and resists Ice and Rock attacks, as well as having an immense defense stat. Water types also are tough to deal with for Mamoswine. They resist Ice moves and can hit back strongly with super effective moves. Mamoswine also doesn't carry any moves that hit water types for super effective damage, so it's hard to hit them hard when they switch in. </p>

    [DREAM WORLD]
    <p>Mamoswine with Thick Fat has already been released, which isn't game changing, but it is certainly a boost. This gives Mamoswine a resistance to Ice moves and a neutrality to Fire moves. This means that Mamoswine is one of the only resistors of the BoltBeam combo which makes it easier for Mamoswine to switch into certain pokemon. Mamoswine can also survive fire type moves from pokemon like Urgamosu and Shanderaa and OHKO back with Stone Edge and Earthquake.</p>
  2. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    We're done with the bullet points phase, we're now supposed to be doing paragraphs.
    Take this analysis as an example.
  3. sax king

    sax king

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    Okay, thank you Delta 2777
    I'm just going to finish writing the rough outline and get some feedback before I start finallizing and writing in paragraphs.
  4. sax king

    sax king

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    Awaiting feedback before finallizing now
  5. Alan

    Alan

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    mixmamo????

    also the revenge killer set should have LO slashed since it prevents you from getting locked into a move and being setup bait for a handful of things depending on what your locked into
  6. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

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    What about Choice Band Abomasnow? Adamant or Jolly 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe can work.
  7. masterful

    masterful

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    Banded should be listed over Scarf. Mamo works well as a scare poke with Band, as many Dragons will switch out, fearing the Ice Shard, only to have the switch-in take a hefty chunk from Mamo's insanely string STAB EQ. Also, many of the threats he is revenging will be scarfed, rendering his useless, forcing him to Ice Shard anyway, except it will be far weaker. A max speed Mamo can also still outspeed Technician Breloom's Mach Punch, dealing a LARGE amount of damage (90-108%,, an easy OHKO with some prior damage
  8. sax king

    sax king

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    @ alan
    I added both of your suggestions into additional options and comments, thanks for that
    @ Don Honchkrowleone
    I guess Abomasnow can be put into the team options part, but I think he's an obvious choice if you choose to go with a hail set
    @ Masterful
    I was debating whether or not to put Choice Band in the main set, but I guess I will. It does allow it to nail switch ins harder, but it leaves you pretty vulnerabe after you revenge something.

    Also now waiting for approval and grammar and prose check
  9. masterful

    masterful

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    So does a choice scarf, dude. Anyway, what are you revenging here?
  10. sax king

    sax king

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    I prefer the Choice Scarf because I can put a large dent into any switch in by outspeeding it, but Choice Band does hit any switch in much harder than Choice Scarf.

    And I'm talking about revenging the three genies, the lati twins, salamence, flygon, breloom, and others (i can't name all right now)

    with a scarf, I can also get non-scarfed Sazandos, Jarodas, Ononokosus, zapdos,, and a few other bulkier threats (they can be outsped with a scarf and be hit with Icicle drop)

    with a band, I can get Doryuuzu, Zapdos, and some of the previous threats with CB Ice Shard

    So basically CS offers a wider range of revenge-able pokemon because it enables you to use Icicle Drop, while CB allowsyou to revenge some faster threats with stronger priority
  11. masterful

    masterful

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    Remember, a Banded Ice Shard is still really strong
  12. masterful

    masterful

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    A banded Ice Shard does 94-111% to no def sazando, an easy OHKO with SR up, so Icicle Drop isn't really necessary
  13. Badal

    Badal Shit
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    Band role for Mamo is quite important as mentioned. Mamoswine can do some serious damage when banded and is very effective.

    A small formatting nitpick you forgot to write "name" before writing the name of the second set.
  14. sax king

    sax king

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    Are you sure?

    because I just ran some calcs, and I got 74-87. I used the smogon calculator with Moltres (same stats) and multiplied by two and got 74-87. CS Icicle drop does 104-122

    Also, for Ononokosu (a lot of people think that they can OHKO it) you deal about 81-96 with Ice shard, and guaranteed OHKO with Icicle Drop.

    CB Ice Shard is strong, but CS Icicle Drop is stronger but slower. It's probably just a matter of preference or what suits your team best

    And thanks baladchristiano, i fixed it
  15. masterful

    masterful

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    That's actually true. My calculator was apparently off. Still, most pokes won't stay in, and Band Swine will hit them WAY harder with EQ
  16. NightShadow

    NightShadow

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    I think Superpower and the elemental fangs should be mentioned somewhere here.

    ALso, you have a spelling mistake. You wrote Blizzad instead of Blizzard in the OC paragraph, last line.
  17. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    Jolly should be the primary nature choice on the first set, and the item should look like this: Choice Band / Life Orb (Choice Scarf Mamoswine is pretty bad when there's better Pokemon for the joblike Randorosu).

    Formal analysis should also have a * next to their title (so the title of this should be "Mamoswine*").
  18. sax king

    sax king

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    I think Adamant is fine because Mamo really needs the power boost. If Mamo really needs the extra boost in speed, he can use a Choice Scarf. I have Life Orb mentioned in the Additional comments section, I just don't think that we should sacrifice Mamoswine's survivability. Mamo and Randorosu don't really fill the same role, so I think Choice Scarf works well. It can help im get the advantage over pokemon like Sazando, who won't be OHKO'd by banded Ice Shard but will be by Scarfed Icicle Drop. I don't think that Randorosu outclasses ScarfSwine as a dragon killer.

    And thanks for the * tip, btw
  19. masterful

    masterful

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    Max Speed Jolly lets him outspeed max speed Breloom's Mach Punch, which is a big threat
  20. sax king

    sax king

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    most breloom (92%) are adamant
  21. masterful

    masterful

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    If you intend this as a revenge killer, you must account for Jolly SD Breloom
  22. PooF

    PooF

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    Wouldn't it be better to make 2 different sets for choice items? Choice band is usually a lot better with Adamant and EVs invested into bulk over speed imo (or at least it's a very viable alternative to the set currently posted). This way, Mamo can even switch into some Outrages insted of just being able to revenge kill. It should also be able to take breloom's mach punch at high hp (though i didn't do any calcs here so i don't really know) and KO back, so it's not auto-loss even if breloom is faster.
  23. Sir Azelf

    Sir Azelf

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    Just a note, it doesnt get the elemental fangs apart from Ice Fang. So this part ;

    Needs removing.
  24. min min

    min min

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    Actually Superpower's main purpose is to hit Nattorei for SE damage, which is really vital if you intend Mamoswine to sweep later. But you stand to lose Icicle Drop, so it isn't really that important.
  25. soonerorlater

    soonerorlater

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    mostly what people said, but CB Ice Shard > CS Icicle Drop. Even with Choice Scarf, you're not outspeeding Dragons not named Altaria (lol) or Dragonite. Bulky Dragonite survives on hit and can KO Mamoswine anyways. All the other dragons bar Garchomp will be actually hit by Ice Shard before Icicle Drop, since they'll be faster.

    Life Orb should be the 2nd option, and Jolly / Adamant. You beat Breloom, and non-Timid Rotom formes with extra speed. Life Orb gives you extra power, and not be a sitting duck, like all Choice sets would make you.

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