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Mamoswine [BW2 Revamp] [QC: 3/3] [GP 0/2]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Sciztar, Jan 1, 2013.

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  1. Sciztar

    Sciztar

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    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [Overview]


    <p>The Wooly Mammoth makes its return to BW2 with two new toys under its belt. Mamoswine obtain is a new powerful STAB, Icicle Crash and its new Dreamworld Ability Thick Fat, which lets Mamoswine take neutral damage to fire-type moves. Mamoswine can function differently on teams; it can be a great lead for teams to set up Stealth Rock or be an offensive sweeper to take on Thundurus-T, Tornadus-T and Landorus-T. If your team is in need of a Pokemon that will check Dragon-types, Mamoswine is the best choice. Ice Shard is Mamoswine's best STAB priority move in the tier, it helps revenge kill boosting Dragon-types and the three Therians. There aren't many Pokemon that out speed Mamoswine while taking neutral damage from Ice Shard, and there aren't many offensive Pokemon that can switch in on Mamoswine unless they're at full health.</p>

    <p>Mamoswine has an acceptable Base 80 Speed of which is good for getting the jump on slower Pokemon in the tier but it is uniquely mitigated by Ice Shard. Due to Mamoswine's Ground / Ice typing it leaves you weak to common priority Pokemon for example: Scizor's Bullet Punch and Breloom's Mach Punch. But don't let this discourage you from using Mamoswine, once it gets in safely it's a pain for most teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Icicle Crash
    move 2: Ice Shard
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Superpower / Stealth Rock
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]


    <p> Coming off a Base 130 Attack and with a Life Orb this makes Mamoswine a threatening sweeper. Not many Pokemon are going to want to switch into a powerful move from Mamoswine. With Superpower, Mamoswine is able to hit Air Balloon Heatran who wouldn't take any damage from its STAB Earthquake. Superpower is also effective against Rotom-W who is arguably Mamoswine most common switch in. If Ferrothorn is a problem for your team then it should also be noted that Ferrothorn is 2HKO by Superpower. Not only is Icicle Crash Mamoswine's most powerful STAB attack it has a nice flinch chance and Dragonite can be OHKO even through Multiscale, but most Dragonite would never stay in on Mamoswine.</p>

    <p>With Mamoswine's Base 80 Speed, faster Dragon-types like: Garchomp, Salamence, Hydreigon and Haxorus all have a respectable move to KO you but Ice Shard can easily KO them. Mamoswine also checks the likes of Tornadus-T, Thundurus-T, Landorus and Breloom with its STAB Ice Shard. Tornadus-T is not KO by Ice Shard as it only does 75.58 - 89.63% unless it comes in on Stealth Rock then its a guaranteed OHKO. When choosing a nature for Mamoswine the preferred nature is an Jolly Nature. With an Jolly Nature you are guaranteed to out speed Adamant Breloom, max speed Politoed, other Adamant Mamoswine, positive speed nature Heatran, and Adamant Lucario. With a Jolly nature you will break the speed tie with Dragonite and have a 43% chance of OHKO it through Multiscale with Icicle Spear.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    <p>If your team is in need of a Stealth Rock you can substitute Superpower for Stealth Rock but you will lose out a 2HKO to Ferrothorn who can OHKO Mamoswine with its either STAB moves Gyro Ball or Power Whip. The use of Jolly nature is generally better for number of things you can out speed, but the difference between the two matures is that 10% power drop from Adamant to Jolly which actually loses a number of KOs. For example:</p>
    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>Adamant Earthquake vs 252/88+ Ferrothorn: 44.60% - 52.84% (Chance to 2HKO after SR and Leftovers, very high chance with one layer of Spikes only)</li>
    <li>Jolly Earthquake vs 252/88+ Ferrothorn: 40.91% - 48.01%</li>
    <li>Adamant Earthquake vs 252/0 Tyranitar: 106.93% - 126.24%</li>
    <li>Jolly Earthquake vs 252/0 Tyranitar: 96.53% - 114.36% (Basically for lead matchups, and nothing will frustrate you more than to miss the OHKO and having it set up Stealth Rock on you)</li>
    <li>Adamant Icicle Crash vs 252/232+ Skarmory: 34.43% - 40.72% (Good chance at 3HKOing Skarmory if you get the 30% flinch chance)</li>
    <li>Jolly Icicle Crash vs 252/232+ Skarmory: 31.44% - 37.13%</li>
    <li>Adamant Earthquake vs 252/252+ Hippowdon: 35.71% - 42.14%</li>
    <li>Jolly Earthquake vs 252/252+ Hippowdon: 32.14% - 38.10%</li>
    <li>Adamant Icicle Crash vs 252/252+ Hippowdon: 60.48% - 71.90% (2HKO guaranteed with SR for Earthquake then Icicle Crash)</li>
    <li>Jolly Icicle Crash vs 252/252+ Hippowdon: 55.71% - 65.71% (Miss the 2HKO for EQ + Icicle Crash)</li>

    </ul>
    <p>With an Adamant nature you are guaranteed to out speed Adamant nature Breloom and KO it with Ice Shard. Also with an Adamant nature your Earthquake will always OHKO and out speed Special Defensive Jirachi. One threat that can survive Mamoswine's STAB and can KO him is Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch. If Pokemon commonly seen using Substitute like: Garchomp, Gliscor, Toxicroak, Hydriegon and Gengar are giving your teams problems then Icicle Spear is great for breaking their substitute.</p>

    <p> Latias is a good partner for Mamoswine, as Mamoswine easily dispatches of both of Latias' main counters, Jirachi and Tyranitar, and in return Latias provides a nice check to problematic threats for Mamoswine, such as Keldeo and Rotom-W. Thundurus-T makes a good partner for Mamoswine as his powerful Electric STAB attacks can easily dispose of Skarmory as well as the bulky Water-types that Mamoswine can not easily take out. Breloom is a good teammate, as Mamoswine struggles against the likes of Terrakion and bulky Water types which Breloom easily handles with Mach Punch and Bullet Seed respectively. On the other hand, Breloom struggles with Dragon-types which Mamoswine can pick off with Ice Shard and Breloom can return the favor by putting Bronzong, Slowbro, and Skarmory to sleep who walls Mamoswine. Heatran is another good partner for Mamoswine because Heatran can check he steel walls like Bronzong and Skarmory and tank Dragon hits and which teams with Mamoswine tend to be vulnerable against. Mamoswine can be effective on Dragon spam team because Mamoswine can check opposing Dragon-types that may give Dragon spam teams trouble because of most dragons are weak against Mamoswine's STAB Ice move. </p>

    [SET]
    name: Focus Sash
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Endeavor
    move 3: Ice Shard
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]


    <p>What made Mamoswine so threatening in Diamond and Pearl is its Focus Sash set. This set is great for a lead Pokemon to set up entry hazards. When choosing a nature for Mamoswine a Jolly nature is preferred over Adamant nature. This set is not designed to break through walls but to out speed opposing threats namely to insure you out speed Breloom before it spores you. When playing with the Focus Sash if you opponent leads with Politoed, 53.302% of the time they will use Scald which has a 93.75% chance of an OHKO, but with the Focus Sash and Endeavor you can bring your opponent down to 1HP and you can retaliate back with your priority Ice Shard which will help you take out Politoed. Ice Shard should always be used no matter what to pick off dragons-types and Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T from trying to sweep your team. If your opponent doesn't lead with a Pokemon that can't OHKO your Mamoswine then it's safe to go ahead and set up Stealth Rock. While Earthquake isn't as hard as the Life Orb set, it's still great to hit Heatran and Jirachi hard.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>If your team is not worried about out speeding Jolly nature Breloom and other Adamant nature Mamoswine then you can opt for an Adamant nature for more offensive power. If you want to break opposing lead Pokemon's substitute you can option for Icicle Spear in replace for Endeavor. Celebi has good synergy with Mamoswine, since it counters Breloom and other Fighting-types, and is able to beat Rotom-W. Also, Bulky Dragonite appreciates having his would be checks weakened, and has good synergy with Mamoswine. Mamoswine appreciates Magnezone who can trap Scizor locked into Bullet Punch, as well as Ferrothorn and other steel types attempting to tank an Earthquake.</p>


    [Other Options]


    <p>For more fire power you can option for Choice Band to fire off some powerful Earthquakes, but being locked into Earthquake sucks, but practically no Pokemon who are immune or who resist Earthquake except for Skarmory and Rotom-W would like to switch into Icicle Crash. Stone Edge is another option for hitting Volcarano but Earthquake is usually sufficient to take out Volcarona as with the Life Orb Mamoswine OHKOs offensive variants of Volcorana. If you want Mamoswine to have more speed you can use a Choice Scarf to revenge kill Tornadus-T and +1 Dragonite but it isn't very good in OU since Mamoswine's STABs are easily abused and its somewhat redundant by Ice Shard and the Pokemon that used to be susceptible to this set were Substitute Garchomp and Substitute Breloom which aren't as common as they used to be in OU.</p>


    [Checks & Counters]

    <p>Mamoswine doesn't have many counters, but faster Pokemon can stop the Mammoth in its track. Choice Scarf users who can take Ice Shards and beat Mamoswine with powerful STABs such as Jirachi, Heatran, and Rotom-W all make solid checks to Mamoswine. Since Mamoswine is weak to water moves, faster water-types like Keldeo, Starmie, and Choice Scarf Politoed are all good Pokemon to check Mamoswine with their STAB Hydro Pump. With Mamoswine's Ice-type it leaves it weak to faster fighting types like Lucario, Keldeo, Infernape, and Terrakion who are very common in the OU tier as they resist Mamoswine's Ice Shard. Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch is also another check to Mamsowine as it will always KO Mamoswine. Mamoswine has trouble breaking through physical walls like Slowbro and Skarmory. Special Defensive Rotom-W can easily come on Mamoswine and OHKO with Hydro Pump but it doesn't like to switch in on Superpower. Terrakion can also take out Mamoswine with Close Combat but it must be careful of switching in to Earthquake as it can OHKO Terrakion.</p>
  2. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    I don't think you should say that in the overview. Thick Fat and Icicle Crash are pretty great new toys, in my opinion.

    Speaking of which, Icicle Crash needs to be slashed on the LO set because it has more reliable BP than Icicle Spear.
  3. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

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    Stone Edge should not be on the Life Orb set; Superpower is more useful in literally every single scenario (hits Ferrothorn, Balloon users). All Stone Edge does is beat Volcarona, which Mamoswine shouldn't be staying in on anyway. It only really ran Stone Edge in BW1 because Superpower was illegal with Icicle Crash, but that isn't the case anymore.

    Also, am I the only one who think Icicle Crash should be the first slash on the LO set? Icicle Spear may break Substitutes, but this isn't Cloyster we're talking about; Icicle Spear is horrendously unreliable. IIRC the only things that use Substitute that are weak to Ice are Gliscor (not staying in on you anyway) and Breloom (Sub sets are not very common anymore, the vast majority of Brelooms are Technician sets). On the other hand, Icicle Crash is useful for OHKOing unboosted Dragonite through Multiscale, which is a pretty big deal. Not sure what Icicle Spear is doing, but in other cases Icicle Crash's more reliable Base Power will prove to help out more than breaking Substitutes.
  4. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    LO Mamo is better than the lead set, just sayin'.
  5. Sciztar

    Sciztar

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    Yeah your right and it was the most popular set in December, so I'll change switch that around.
  6. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    -Move LO Mamoswine to first set. its 100% better than the lead set.

    -Mention Icicle Spear in the AC of LO Mamo, since I guess its nice for stuff like Sub Chomp, Sub Gliscor, Sub Haxorus, SUb Hydriegon maybe Gengar etc etc situational but good enough for AC imo.

    -Likewise SR needs to be at least AC on the LO set, since people commonly use LO Mamo with SR. It can prolly be slashed with Superpower but other people might want to weigh in here since Mamo likes having all its moves to some degree.
  7. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    I don't play with Mamoswine at all, but why is choice band not being accounted for, not even in OO? I can imagine some offensive issues being locked into earthquake, but that should be addressed again in OO should it not?
  8. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

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    Stealth Rock on LO Mamoswine isn't terrible, but every time I used it I wished I had a more reliable user like Heatran or Deoxys-D. Hell, I'd even lean more toward using Focus Sash Dugtrio for Stealth Rock. Additionally, I personally found that Mamoswine gets very few opportunities to set up Stealth Rock. It's not nearly as frail as Pokemon like Lucario, but it isn't really bulky and has few resistances; factoring in Thick Fat, it only has three resistances, one of which is worthless (Poison). On top of that, most of the Pokemon it forces out are either 4x weak to Ice or both slower than it AND weak to one of its moves, of which there aren't many.

    That said, I do think it's good enough for an AC mention for when the Mamoswine user really can't fit on any other Stealth Rock user.

    EDIT: Also, I agree with Scarfwynaut (wow! what are the odds?) that CB should get an OO mention, but definitely stress the fact that its moves are by no means safe to be locked into.
  9. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Here's what I think the first set should look like:

    [SET]
    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Icicle Crash
    move 2: Ice Shard
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Superpower / Stealth Rock
    item: Life Orb / Choice Band
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    LO and CB Mamoswine play similarly enough to be merged, IMO. Getting locked into Earthquake sucks, but practically no EQ immune/resist apart from Skarm and Rotom-W would like to switch into Icicle Crash anyway.

    Another thing to consider is Scarf Mamoswine. It may seem weird, but Mamoswine has the coverage and relatively good speed to revenge kill most threats it's supposed to revenge kill anyway. Something like this:

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Icicle Spear / Icicle Crash
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Superpower
    move 4: Ice Shard / Stone Edge
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    Icicle Spear lets you kill Dragonite through Multiscale, but Icicle Crash is generally more consistent. Ice Shard may seem out of place in the last slot, but it's still reliable priority if you ever need it, and it's not like Mamoswine is really starved for moveslots.
  10. Sciztar

    Sciztar

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    The only question I have with the Choice Scarf is the importance of it. I mean what Pokemon are you trying to out speed with Choice Scarf. I mean everytime I use MAmoswine I'm just going to use Ice Shard becuase no matter how many boost a Pokemon gets priority will out speed it regardless.
  11. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Honestly I don't think CB is even worth a slash, since LO is so much better - being locked into either Ground or Ice moves can spell disaster in the current meta. OO CB imho

    PS: I wouldn't mind Scarf being an OO mention, too, tbh, but I have seen some used for surprise kills on my dragons that are behind a sub / healthy enough to survive an Ice Shard
  12. Sciztar

    Sciztar

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    Should Choice Scarf be mentioned in OO

    edit: I posted this before Pocket suggested OO
  13. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    I haven't used Scarfswine much, but Bandswine is pretty bad. The power is nice, but Life Orb is nearly as powerful and you need the ability to switch moves. It's especially invaluable with all the Ground-immune Pokémon like the Therians running around where you will need the Ice coverage.

    Maybe, maybe using an Expert Belt to bluff a Sash or Choice item could be an OO option. Actually, the more I think about it, the more viable it sounds. Base 130 Attack backed by (in my opinion) the best existing STAB combination in the game (Dragon/Fighting and Ghost/Fighting are better, but that's neither here nor there) could make it work more than anything else.
  14. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    The overview actually needs a bit of a dash of hype. Mamo is a pain for most teams (even Rotom-W doesn't like switching into a Superpower or a return). Don't forget to mention that once it gets in safely, its going to cause hell for your opponents tream. You state that its base 80 Speed is acceptable, but I think it should be stressed that Mamoswine's poor speed is somewhat uniquely mitigated by Ice Shard. There aren't many Pokemon that outspeed Mamo while taking neutral damage from Ice Shard and there aren't many offensive Pokemon that can pivot switch into Mamo unless they're healthy. Also, don't forget to add that it checks some of the most fearsome non-dragon threats in the game (Tornadus-T, Thundurus-T, Landorus & Breloom)

    I'll get back to you on Choice Scarf Mamoswine once I give it a test.
  15. Shokwav

    Shokwav

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    Just some quick things

    Isn't this kind of unnecessary?

    I don't think you have to mention "Sub" before each of these mons' names, as it's already implied because they've a substitute.

    Also, Latias is also a good partner for Mamoswine, as Mamoswine easily dispatches of BOTH of Latias' main counters, Jirachi and Tyranitar, and in return Latias provides a nice check to problematic threats for Mamoswine, such as Keldeo and Rotom-W.
  16. Sciztar

    Sciztar

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    I have made all of the changes that many of you have suggested that I make.
  17. TheDoctor1

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    @shkway, how does mamo easily counter rachi? If rachi invest in speed and iron heads can't he Ohko mamo? If not a pure 1shot then after some life orb dog it will kill.
  18. Sciztar

    Sciztar

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    Okay, updated the analysis a bit. Looking for more feedback guys.

    @PK Gaming have you tested the Choice Scarf set yet?
  19. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Unless Volc is running LO + Fire Blast (the majority of them don't), it can't OHKO Mamoswine unboosted. If you're running a focus sash, it can't OHKO, ever. Volc is an extremely dangerous threat to so many teams; letting it set up is often a serious error. A better argument here would be that EQ is usually sufficient to take Volcarona out. IIRC, LO Mamo OHKOes offensive variants. EQ should be enough after SR whatever spread Volc is running. Don't make blanket statements about what should be staying in on what. Also, could you move this to OO or add a mention of Stone Edge on the LO set. It's a much better option on that set.

    Otherwise, I'd say this looks fine.
  20. Sciztar

    Sciztar

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    Thanks Jc104, I appreciate the feedback. I made those changes you suggested.
  21. dice

    dice RAP GAME GiTTARACKUR
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    I would actually slash Stealth Rock with Icicle Crash as well on the first set. I've found Superpower pretty crucial for hitting the ever-so-common Rotom-W and Icicle Crash less so. This is because Earthquake and Ice Shard are already two great STAB's.

    Mention Rapid Spin support on the second set.. obvious reasons.

    I'll give this a closer look later and then I'll approve it.
  22. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Don't worry, i'm allowing you to keep Mamoswine. Focus on fixing the issues present in Infernape.

    As for Choice Scarf, mentioning it in OO should be fine. It isn't very good in OU since Mamoswine's STABs are easily abused, its somewhat made redundant by Ice Shard and the Pokemon that used to be susceptible to this set (Sub Chomp / Sub Loom) aren't as common as they used to be.
  23. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Couple of things that need fixing before I approve:
    You should also mention that Superpower is effective against Rotom-W's (arguably Mamoswine's most common switch in). The 2nd sentence is false btw. Ferrothorn hardly walls Mamoswine, it just barely avoids the 2HKO from Earthquake (the 2HKO is basically guaranteed with hazards or prior damage). Superpower just makes Ferrothorn easier to kill.
    This sentence isn't really accurate. How does Mamoswine plan on defeating Latios or Latias? It can't switch into any of their attacks, and it can't OHKO with Ice Shard either until they're weakened. Nonetheless, it's a decent Breloom partner, since its a decent check to defensive Celebi/Amoongus and you can use Mamoswine to check the 4X Ice-weak Dragon-types that can check Breloom. Breloom returns the favor by bodying Bronzong & Slowbro, and putting to sleep Skarmory (who also happens to check Mamoswine). I'd also mention other Pokemon as partners like Heatran (who happens to counter Bronzong and Skarmory) or Dragons on a Dragspam team. (Since these teams tend to be weak to Dragons).
    None of this is necessary in checks & counters. You should only talk about countering Mamoswine in this section.
  24. Sciztar

    Sciztar

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    Seeing as to how I mention Breloom as a partner to Mamsowine I know the main switch in to Breloom is the EON twins, so Breloom is a good lure out to these two. But I see what you mean, because Mamoswine can not switch into any of the twins moves. So should I mention that Mamoswine can not switch into any of Latios or Latias's moves?

    I actually don't understand what you mean by or dragons on a Dragonspam team. Are trying to say that Heatran can counter the Dragons found on DragonSpam or DragMagnezone teams with Hidden Power Ice or just being a Steel type? I assume you mean by countering the dragons.

    So I should I move that to that the Life Orb set or just scratch that sentence all together? But other than that, I fixed the changes you wanted for Mamoswine.
  25. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Nah it's fine. Just mention that Mamoswine can generally check the Dragon-type Pokemon that annoy Brelooms.

    No... It's just as I wrote it; Heatran is a decent Mamoswine partner because it can counter Bronzong, Skarmory and Scizor (Pokemon that give Mamoswine trouble). My second comment referred to using Mamoswine on DragSpam (because Mamoswine can check opposing Dragon-types that may give Dragspam teams trouble) because teams and is completely unrelated from the first comment.

    Sure.
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