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MAMOSWINE (QC 1/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by BLOOD TOTEM, Aug 9, 2013.

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  1. BLOOD TOTEM

    BLOOD TOTEM AWOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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    PUSSY PLOWER
    MAMOSWINE
    [​IMG]

    [OVERVIEW]

    - Good offensive typing lets it hit a wide number of Pokemon for super effective damage.
    - Powerful STAB spread move in Earthquake.
    - Priority in Ice Shard gives it strong revenge killing potential taking down Shaymin-S, Garchomp and Landorus.
    - Fairly slow with only base 80 Speed which isn't enough to outspeed the premier threats of the tier.
    - Ability Thick Fat is good as it negates one of its weaknesses
    - Weakness to Fighting-type moves means it struggles against a multitude of pokemon, notably Hitmontop who also neuters Mamoswine with Intimidate.
    - Struggles against rain teams both offensively and defensively.

    [SET]

    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Ice Shard
    move 3: Icicle Spear / Icicle Crash
    move 4: Protect
    item: Life Orb / Ice Gem / Focus Sash
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Addamant / Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    - Earthquake deal strong spread damage, notably it allows Mamoswine to KO Ninetales. It also seriously dents Tyranitar and, with a Life Orb, it has a chance to KO.
    - Ice shard is good for priority allowing Mamoswine to take down weakened foes without having to worry about speed.
    - Icicle Spear means that Mamoswine does not have to worry about Yache Berries and Pokemon behind Substitutes and is the preferred choice. Icicle Crash can be beneficial thanks to its flinch chance and higher base power but Icicle Spear is often the more useful of the two moves and is, on average, only 8.7% weaker than Icicle Crash.
    - Protect is a staple in doubles to help it survive longer.
    - Strong against Thundurus-I since it is immune to paralysis and can hit hard with Ice Shard or Icicle Spear.


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - Given its role as a physical attacker Mamoswine fears Intimidate as it will take power from its attacks.
    - Mamoswine doesn't perform very well against rain teams which is why it is advisable to have a partner such as Rotom-W that can check rain.
    - Gem esures that genies will be killed in 2 hits from Icicle Spear and doesn't rely on high damage rolls.
    - It’s typing means it can utilize a Focus Sash well as it takes no damage from sand or hail.
    - Though it has the type advantage Mamoswine must be wary when facing dragons such as Latios as it can easily outspeed and KO Mamoswine with Draco Meteor.
    - Mamoswine benefits greatly from Icy Wind or paralysis support as it means it does not have to worry about its sub-par speed.


    [SET]

    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Icicle Spear
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Stone Edge / Rock Slide
    move 4: Superpower
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    - This set is the ultimate Genie killer. Tornadus, Landorus, and Thundurus all fall prey to a 3 hit from Icicle Spear and the 160 Speed EVs mean that they are all outsped. Mamoswine doesn’t fear paralysis from Thundurus either thanks to it’s immunity to Electric-type attacks.
    - Icicle Spear also deals with Substitute attackers that don’t resists Ice-type attacks
    - Earthquake is a powerful STAB spread move which can be used to hurt all Pokemon on thefield for good damage.
    - Stone Edge allows Mamoswine to hit opposing Ice-types super effectively and hits Gyarados for more damage than Icicle Spear. Rock Slide may be preferred thanks to its ability to hit both opposing Pokemon and cause a flinch but the power drop is noticeable.
    - Superpower hits Steel-types which Mamoswine may struggle to deal with for super effective damage and also OHKOes Tyranitar.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    - 160 speed EVs paired with a choice scarf allows Mamoswine to outspeed every threat under and including base 111 speed. Significant examples include Latios and Latias, Salamence, Garchomp and, the genies.
    - If your team has good paralysis support, Icicle Crash may be the preferred option over Icicle Spear thanks to its flinch chance.
    - Mamoswine works well with Discharge users, notably Thundurus-T and Zapdos who are immune to Mamoswine’s Earthquake.

    [OTHER OPTIONS]

    - Endeavor is an option to run along with a Focus Sash as it can provide a lot of damage to opponents that don't see it coming.
    - Mamoswine can make use of a Ground Gem to ensure that it will always KO Tyranitar with Earthquake.
    - A bulkier spread of 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe with a jolly nature can be run. This spread ensures you will always outspeed Breloom and provides a little extra bulk.
    - A Chople Berry can be used to help Mamoswine surprise opponents who expect a fighting type attack to secure a KO on Mamoswine.
    - An Ice Gem can be used to beat Yache Landorus-T with Ice Shard, provided Mamoswine has not been affected by intimidate.
    - Use of a Choice Band is an option but a Gem would generally be better if you need extra power for a significant KO.
    - Stone Edge allows Mamoswine to 2HKO Gyarados, even after Intimidate. Rock Slide can also be used but the power drop is noticeable.
    - Superpower lets Mamoswine hit Tyranitar without hitting your own partner, it also provides super effective damage on Ferrothorn.
    - Toxic provides Mamoswine with something to use against bulky Water-types that are likely to switch in to a predicted attack.
    - Bulldoze or Icy Wind can be used for speed control.
    - With good prediction substitute can be used to earn Mamoswine a free turn

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]
    - Hitmontop
    - Kyurem-Black
    - Politoed
    - Swift Swim users
    - Bulky Water-types such as Jellicent and Suicune
    - Conkeldurr
    - Scizor
    - Scrafty
    - Ferrothorn
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013
  2. Nollan

    Nollan EV Master Nollan
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    I'm thinking Endeavor is more of an OO tbh, as Fighting and Steel weakness make Protect a must due to the high presence of Bullet Punch and Mach Punch. Ice Gem should also be slashed on the set, it is great for nabbing KOs, just remember to use Icicle Crash if you run it. Apart from that, it is pretty good, I'm going to wait for more comments to stamp though.
  3. Laga

    Laga Drinking is borrowing happiness from tomorrow
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    alright i'll do a thorough check here.

    [overview]

    · change this one's wording a little = Ability Thick Fat is great as it means its weakness to Fire-type attacks is not less of an issue. Let's face it; Mamoswine's pitiful special bulk won't make a neutral hit "not an issue"

    · otherwise, looks good to me for a writing platform.


    [Set] (changing a couple of things)

    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Earthquake (more of a staple move than Ice Shard)
    move 2: Ice Shard
    move 3: Icicle Spear (almost always better than Icicle Crash; breaks through Yache Berry and Focus Sash, doesn't miss)
    move 4: Protect
    item: Life Orb / Focus Sash (Life Orb is often preferred over Focus Sash, as Mamoswine can actually take neutral hits just fine)
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Adamant / Jolly (Since you want to hit hard with Ice Shard, Adamant is preferred over Jolly)
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    · Remember to always write the "name", "move", "item", "ability", "nature", "evs", and "ivs" tags in lower case.


    [Set comments]

    · Change "The last slot should typically be filled by protect to help Mamoswine survive longer so it can dish out more damage but Endeavor is an option if used in tandem with a Focus Sash to cripple a foe that you otherwise may have trouble dealing with" into "Protect because it is a staple on offensive Pokemon in doubles".

    · The second-to-last point (Dragon thingy) is for Checks and Counters; it doesn't fit in Set Comments.

    · The last point should be moved to Team Options (Addition Comments), and tell it more along the lines of "Mamoswine works well as a backup to Pokemon weak to paralysis, as it can easily switch into Thundurus and Cresselia for free."

    · Mention the EQ explanation before Ice Shard, since it is moved like that.


    [Additional Comments]

    · Change "This set hates rain teams and the only real way it can hurt them is by catching the opponent off guard with Endeavor." to something like "Rotom-W is a good partner for Mamoswine, as it helps keep rain teams in check." This is because the point you wrote fits the Checks and Counters section.

    · Change "It’s typing means it takes no damage from sand making it a good Pokemon to use on a sand team" to "It utilizes Focus Sash well due to its immunity to Sandstorm and Hail", since it has no real special fit on Sand teams other than being a Ground type. The Sand (and Hail) immunity mostly helps with the whole keeping Sash intact thing.

    · Delete the second-to-last point. It doesn't fit at all.

    · Shorten the last point to "Mamoswine benefits greatly from paralysis or Icy Wind support as it means that Mamoswine doesn't have to worry about its sub-par speed as much." The whole Icicle Crash thing seems sketchy when you consider that it is slashed after Icicle Spear.

    [Other Options]

    · This looks great to me :)

    [Checks and Counters]

    · Mention Fighting-types in general, and also mention Ferrothorn (yes, it is used).

    Implement these nitpicks, and I'll stamp if it looks good :)
  4. BLOOD TOTEM

    BLOOD TOTEM AWOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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    Made all the recommended changes.
  5. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
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    Laga covered pretty much all I wanted to say, but don't forget to mention in the Overview that Ice Shard revenges Shaymin-S, Garchomp, Landorus, etc. It's important to list some of the specific Pokemon that Ice Shard revenges because it's a significant reason why you use Mamoswine. I also disagree that Life Orb should be slashed over Focus Sash, because Mamoswine really appreciates being able to live a hit in case it has to revenge one of those 4x Ice weak Pokemon and something that can OHKO Mamoswine is out (which happens a lot), but both are obviously great options.
  6. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
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    Ok, figured I'd go through some things I'd like to see here:
    • Add Rotom-W (I know it's a Water type, but I think it deserves its own mention seperate from others), Scizor, Conkeldurr, Scrafty to Checks and Counters (also instead of like bulky waters be sure to name specific examples as well such as Suicune and Jellicent). You can also scrap the Fighting types in general part since these changes cover the main Fightings and there are prominent Fighting types that lose to Mamoswine such as Loom and Virizion so it's kinda misleading
    • Cut Endeavor as a slash and move it down to OO or something. Endeavor could work under certain circumstances but it isn't reliable enough to be slashed, and certainly not enough to be worth dropping Protect over
    • Remove mention of 252 HP set in OO. Unless you have a bulky spread that actually lives through specific hits or has some sort of benchmarks to it, no reason to mention one.
    • Superpower should be mentioned in OO imo. Gives you a way to hit TTar without hitting your partner as well as hitting Ferrothorn and Scrafty for SE damage. Probably in OO or something
    • Add Stone Edge to OO, lets you hit Gyarados (2HKO even after Intimidate) and Volcarona so it's probably worth a mention
    • Add Toxic to OO. Since bulky Waters will probably switch in, Toxic can be nice to hamper their survivability
    • When talking about Icicle Spear and Crash, mention how Icicle Spear does around the same damage most of the time (only 8.3% less powerful on average than Icicle Crash)
    • Mention a spread of 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe @ Jolly Nature. Basically uses enough speed to beat Breloom and the rest in bulk. Since only other base 80s commonly used are other Mamoswine and Chandelure I thought it'd be worth a mention.
    • Remove mention of Air Balloon Heatran in Checks and Counters (not a real thing in Doubles lol, and it's an incredibly shaky check even if you do run into it)
    • Kingdra + Ludicolo can probably be mentioned under general category of Swift Swimmers
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2013
  7. BLOOD TOTEM

    BLOOD TOTEM AWOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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    All fixed up now. I think everything is covered.
  8. Laga

    Laga Drinking is borrowing happiness from tomorrow
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    this looks good :]

    [​IMG]
    QC Approved 1/3
  9. lucariojr

    lucariojr it's nothing to sneasel at
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    first of all, ice gem should be slashed as a main item since it provides power to mamo's main moves and doesn't sacrifice any bulk, for reasons i'll get to later (it also boosts icicle spear up enough to OHKO thund with only 2 hits as opposed to relying on 2 high damage rolls with life orb). secondly, adamant should be the first nature listed because of the power it nets mamoswine and speed is something you can kinda sorta take for granted with all the speed control going around.

    bulkier evs are also worth mentioning in ac. a spread of 72 hp / 12 Def / 248 Atk / 176 Spe with a jolly nature outspeeds jolly breloom (outspeeds adamant breloom with adamant obv) and survives a life orb mach punch from adamant breloom (and scizor for that matter), which is important to do when you're holding a gem. of course youre still not surviving gemmed mach punch/bullet punch, but neutral natured looms have only a 50% chance to ohko.

    i also think a scarfed set could be added, but i must admit ive had limited experience with it. i'll see what other qc have to say on that one.

    stuff for oo: icy wind/bulldoze (mamo dont need ur cresses or thunds), substitute (4MSS), hail (anti weather) and rock slide (should be next to stone edge)
  10. Mizuhime

    Mizuhime the echoes of silence
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    I believe a scarf set should be added, Scarf mamo is literally the Genie Killer
    Mamo @ Scarf
    252 attack / 252 speed / 4hp
    Icicle spear / Crash
    Earthquake
    Rock Slide
    Superpower
  11. BLOOD TOTEM

    BLOOD TOTEM AWOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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    Added in a scarf set and made some fixes.
    AC for scarf probably needs some more points but I couldn't think of anything :3
    pls respond
  12. Nollan

    Nollan EV Master Nollan
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    I will simply say I am heavily, heavily against this because, A) Ice Shard already deals massive damage to them with an Ice Gem boost, B) Mamoswine hardwalls Thundurus, the most common genie, anyway, C) Choice Scarf Mamoswine is pretty ineffective compared to its other sets, and D) priority weakness and frail Special Defense makes it very appreciative of Protect.

    In my honest opinion, Scarf Mamoswine is bad, I might be convinced otherwise later on, but from what I've seen, Protect with Ice Shard and what not is going to do the job, it doesn't need more Speed.

    In terms of other sets, bulky Mamoswine is something I think needs to be up here, I'm no expert on it, but here is a (very, very) basic example:

    Mamoswine @ Ice Gem
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 148 HP / 232 Atk / 128 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Icicle Crash
    - Ice Shard
    - Protect

    Simply put, it lives an Adamant Steel Gem Scizor Bullet Punch, and everything below that, notably a Adamant LO Breloom Mach Punch. While it loses a bit of power for said bulk, Ice Gem Ice Shard still OHKOs Offensive Thundurus 75% of the time, and bulky variants all die to Icicle Crash. Even after an attack drop, Ice Shard will OHKO Landorus-T 81.25% of the time, and Icicle Crash will similarly OHKO. My spread is pretty lame overall, there is probably a better one, but the point is that you live hits :>
    Alfalfa likes this.
  13. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Icicle Crash needs to be slashed with Icicle Spear on the Scarf set, since 20% flinch chance makes good use of the boosted Speed. Icicle Spear is also inconsistent in damage output, usually doing less than Icicle Crash.

    AC mention on the Scarf set that you can double up on Ice STAB moves, such as Spear + Crash or Spear + Shard, in exchange for reduced coverage offered from Superpower or Stone Edge.

    This year's VGC World Champion used Scarf Mamo, so I'd reckon it's good. You can say it makes more use of its strong STAB EQs and Icicle Spear, because it does not need to rely on Ice Shard to hit Terrakion, Hydreigon, etc.

    Nice bulky spread, though - most probably worth an AC mention under the primary set. Your spread is actually quite good; I only tweaked it a bit to improve its overall bulk 152 HP / 232 Atk / 124 Def, lol
  14. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Talked to BLOOD TOTEM, and he said he can't get Mamoswine done any time soon. Anybody willing to finish Mamoswine up?
  15. Pocket

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    Mamoswine has been taken over by Nollan :mad:
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