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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Sayonara, Jun 22, 2012.

  1. FrostFire


    Mar 23, 2011
    Personally, I don't like the Multi-Hit moves on any pokemon that doesn't have either Skill Link or Technician. Part of the reason for this is that the chances of hitting 4 or 5 times is actually relatively small:

    2 Hits = 37.5% or 3/8 chance
    3 Hits = 37.5% or 3/8 chance
    4 Hits = 12.5% or 1/8 chance
    5 Hits = 12.5% or 1/8 chance

    This essentially means that 75% of the time, Icicle Crash will be stronger (and you also have that flinch chance). I mean, I guess I see the utility Spear, what with hitting through subs and such, and IC's 90% accuracy can be a bit annoying. Nonetheless, I feel that Icicle Crash's more reliable power output still makes it the superior choice. Plus, I also feel that IC is generally strong enough for Mamoswine's purposes; and while Spear can give you incredible damage sometimes, it's also liable to let you down at the worst possible moment.

    Just my opinion though.
  2. Magik


    Nov 28, 2011
    Just remember its a pretty good set but it still gets walled by a couple of things like skarm and rotom-w (sometimes politoed D:)...so be sure to bring other pokes for them
  3. shofly12


    Dec 17, 2010
    The main reason I would use Spear is to hit through subs (nice, if you let them get one up), and hit through Multiscale Dnite in one go. Although I suppose against Dnite, you could use Crash, and then Ice Shard for the kill. But, hitting through subs is still nice (something like sub CM Lati@)
  4. DrunkDemon


    Feb 26, 2012
    I've been theorymoning an offensive core of Mamo/Magnezone/Kingdra, and it seems like it would work pretty well. Kingdra and Mamoswine are both very anti-meta pokes, and check a large portion of the metagame together. The problem with these too is a weakness to Steels, so Magnezone fixes this problem, forming a pseudo-2Drag1Mag core. Any opinions/criticism?
  5. Ames


    Mar 28, 2011
    It is (was) a very solid core - a team using this was featured in the smog not long ago.

    I tried it along with Azelf, Landorus and scarfed Metagross (which catches so many people of gaurd) and had quite a lot of success with it.
  6. Griff


    Jul 6, 2011
    i've used kingdra zone and its worked well, mamo is a great poke so imagine it could work too.
  7. Bribery


    Mar 28, 2009
    I prefer Icicle Spear by far. imo the utility outweighs the slight extra power/flinch rate from Icicle Crash. It hits through Substitute, Multiscale, and Focus Sashes. It can prevent Mamoswine from getting trapped by Focus Sash/Reversal Dugtrio for example.

    Yeah it's very effective actually. I paired them with Latios on my team since it does a great job of luring out Ferrothorn, one of the best checks to Kingdra. Mamoswine can scare away specially defensive Heatran/Jirachi that commonly switch into Latios (watch out for Lava Plume obviously).
  8. doughboy

    doughboy backhand slap ready
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 4, 2011
    Icicle Spear is useless for Multiscale since you OHKO through Multiscale anyway with Icicle Crash, even bulky Dragonite doesn't stand a chance 87% of the time. I can't really think of anything that uses Focus Sash that you would want to hit with an Ice attack other than Dugtrio. Speaking of Dugtrio no Dugtrio will ever tempt to try trap Mamoswine in fear of Ice Shard. Ussually the teams with Dugtrio on them also uses it for SR, so if they wanted to trap Mamoswine, they have to spend that turn killing with Reversal (since ussually the just go to sash immediatly) or setting up SR, but it can't do both. So killing duggy is out.

    The only real use for Icicle Spear is to kill SubDD Dragonite, SubToxic Gliscor, and Substitute Landorus (all behind subs).

    I beleive you guys are forgetting the significance of using Icicle Crash: killing Skarmory. Much like Gyarados, Skarmory can not reliably Roost stall or stay in Mamoswine to set up Spikes due to that nasty 30% flinch chance. I think getting by one your best checks/walls and potentially abusing the flinch chance with paralysis support is much more valuable than covering some fringe threats.
  9. shrang

    shrang Draw me... like one of your human girls
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 24, 2009
    Heh, you wouldn't be surprised by how many Skarmorys I've flinched to death with Mamoswine, lol.
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf Thank you all guys!
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 3, 2009
    While 3hkoing Skarmory is cool and all, you should never leave the Skarmory killing duty to Mamo anyway, since it is so unreliable. Jolly LO Mamo for example only has a 15% chance to 3hko Skarmory after SR factoring in Icicle Crash's accuracy (all 3 Icicle Crashes have 73% chance of connecting, Skarmory has 69% chance to get 3hkoed after SR, and the second Icicle Crash has 30% chance to flinch Skarmory so we have 73%*69%*30%~15%). I prefer being able to ohko all those carefree Sub mons, that think they can land a hit on me before getting forced out, and the perfect accuracy of Icicle Spear.

    SubPunch Breloom, SubPlot Thundurus-T(which runs HP Ice most of the time), SubDD Nite, ParaShuffle Dnite, Sub Landorus (both formes), SubGliscor, SubDisable Gengar (situational but can help you in tight situations if Focus Blast misses) and Sub Latias are all foes that get fucked up by Icicle Spear, because so many people are not expecting it. Also killing Dugtrio in one shot is always nice (eg the opposing Dugtrio tries to trap your Shed Shell Ttar and uses Sub to go to Reversal range, while you switch to Mamo and ohko with Icicle Spear).
  11. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Who says I can't get stoned?
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jul 5, 2012
    Another duo I've seen a bunch of people do is Mamo+Amoo under hail. They work together well, but they require a water type (kingdra lol) to take fire for them. Here's how they synergize:
    covered by Mamo:
    -wall-breaking dragons
    -flying types that love to drop bombs below (lol)
    -other grass walls
    -steel types

    covered by Amoonguss:
    -twave to help with mamo's slow speed
    -bulky water walls
    -fighting types (well, not really, but it can wall them all day)
    -can but threats to sleep

    Their synergy isn't perfect, but it's very good.
  12. Groombridge


    Dec 19, 2007

    I've had Mamo trapped by Sash Reversal Dugtrio a couple of times. It has to get in cleanly at 100% following a Mamo kill. Everyone expects Mamo to use Ice Shard to KO Dugtrio first, so the Dugtrio player selects Reversal. If Mamo uses Ice Shard, it knocks Dugtrio down to the sash and 200BP Reversal is instant death. Dugtrio can then attempt a sweep.

    However, if you use Icicle Spear, Dugtrio outspeeds and goes first with a lol 20BP Reversal - before getting obliterated by Icicle Spear through its sash. You could do the same thing using Icicle Crash, except that Dugtrio would survive with its sash, and it could switch out before Ice Shard finished it off. Minor difference, but there it is. Sometimes Dugtrio players try to use Mamo's priority against it.
  13. SapphSabre777


    Aug 30, 2012
    With Garchomp (according to many) looking to come down to OU, it will benefit Mamoswine's usage. Ice Shard from Life Orb Mamo OHKO's Chomp.
  14. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude !
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Mar 15, 2012
    Although a bit late just talking about Mamoswine+Magnezone core this core works great with a dragon type sweeper due to most ou dragons carrying a fighting resist. Mamoswine also takes ot dragon types. while magnezone takes out steels two big threats to dragons. I use that core with a SubCM Latias and in actual fact i rmt'd the team because of its great results.

    While this might not have much to do about Mamoswine as a pokemon we all already know he is a good offensive threat and checks dragons and the therians. From personal experience in using mamoswine i find that he fits on a lot of my teams easy and is a great "glue" for alot of my teams when i am figuring out what threatens my team Mamoswine usaully solves alot of those problems (dragon check, therian check,etc)

    i apologise if there are alot of spelling errors in this post because i am on my phone
  15. probationsmack


    Dec 3, 2005
    I've found scarf adamant mamo has helped me out in certain situations. Basically its fast enough to spear through fast sub users who opt to attack for a ko (surf latias) and instead get wrecked before getting their attack in. Has a nice surprise factor in general actually.
  16. A Fhaol Bhig

    A Fhaol Bhig

    Jan 4, 2011
    Bumping to express my support. Scarf Mamo has saved me in so many matches due to being able to revenge kill with Icicle Crash. Great surprise factor against Gaychomp.

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