1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

OU Mamoswine

Discussion in 'Preliminary Pokedex' started by Sturdynips, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. Sturdynips

    Sturdynips
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    379
    XY Preview
    Serebii
    QC: Fuzznip, PK Gaming, Ginganinja
    GP: Kingler12345, melvni


    Overview
    ########
    While XY brought Mamoswine few boons, it retains its role as an excellent check to some of the most threatening Pokemon in OU. Mamoswine's high base 130 Attack coupled with outstanding Ice + Ground offensive coverage and priority in the form of Ice Shard allows it to KO dangerous sweepers such as Landorus, Garchomp, and Dragonite, as well as deliver crippling blows to opposing walls. Access to Stealth Rock, the useful Endeavor, and Oblivious also enables Mamoswine to run a unique offensive lead set that cannot be Taunted while still maintaining its revenge killing capabilities.

    However, Mamoswine's poor defenses and weakness to common attacking types make it difficult to switch into offensive Pokemon, and its relatively low base Speed means that it will often lose to offensive Pokemon that it cannot defeat with Ice Shard. This is compounded by a significant weakness to many priority attacks, notably Bullet Punch, Mach Punch, and Aqua Jet. Mamoswine's offensive lead set faces strong competition from other dedicated leads such as Deoxys-D, and the new Defog mechanics make the guaranteed Stealth Rock from this set less effective.

    Despite its flaws, Mamoswine is a formidable force on the field, as its ability to revenge kill prominent threats as well as break through tough walls is second to none.

    Physical Attacker
    ########
    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Ice Shard
    move 3: Icicle Crash / Icicle Spear
    move 4: Freeze Dry / Superpower
    ability: Thick Fat
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 244 Atk / 12 SpA / 252 Spe
    ivs: 29 HP
    nature: Naive / Jolly

    Moves
    ========
    Mamoswine's movepool is far from expansive, but it has access to everything it needs to be both a strong revenge killer and an excellent wallbreaker. Earthquake is a very powerful STAB move with nice coverage, and Ice Shard provides priority to revenge kill a large number of threats, particularly Dragons. Icicle Crash is a strong secondary STAB attack that has amazing neutral coverage with Earthquake, hitting Grass- and Flying-types super effectively, while having a handy 30% flinch chance. Alternatively, Icicle Spear is an interesting option that can break through Substitute and Focus Sash users: Gliscor, Smeargle, and Breloom are relevant examples. It also has the benefit of 100% accuracy, though it is, on average, weaker than Icicle Crash. Freeze Dry may seem like an odd choice on a physical attacker, but it provides excellent coverage against bulky Water-types. Physically defensive Rotom-W is 2HKOed after Stealth Rock damage, and Gyarados takes massive damage. It also cleanly OHKOes Quagsire, which can be very handy in breaking stall teams. Superpower is viable to smash Ferrothorn and Air Balloon users such as Heatran and Excadrill harder than Mamoswine's STAB moves. Stealth Rock is an option, but it is generally set up more reliably by other variants of Mamoswine. Finally, Mamoswine also has access to Knock Off, which with its new mechanics could be useful in the final move slot if Freeze Dry and Superpower are undesired.

    Set Details
    ========
    A Speed boosting nature is preferred in order to outrun offensive Heatran, Adamant Gyarados, and Breloom. Outspeeding Breloom is important, as this ensures Mamoswine's Ice Shard will strike before Jolly Breloom's Mach Punch. The choice of nature is dependent on the moveset. If Freeze Dry is used, Naive is ideal, though Naughty is also viable. Jolly or Adamant should be chosen on sets without Freeze Dry. The given EV spread emphasizes Speed and Attack, and the 12 EVs in Special Attack guarantee that Rotom-W is 2HKOed by Freeze Dry after Stealth Rock damage. Mamoswine without Freeze Dry should maximize Attack and have the remaining 4 EVs in Defense. As it gives a neutrality to Fire-type attacks and a resistance to Ice-type attacks, Thick Fat is the ability of choice, allowing Mamoswine to survive strong Fire-type attacks such as Choice Band Talonflame's Flare Blitz and Choice Scarf Heatran's Fire Blast. A Life Orb is ideal to maximize attacking power while retaining the versatility of switching moves, and subsequently the 29 IVs in HP minimize Life Orb recoil as well as Stealth Rock damage.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    There are very few complexities involved with this Mamoswine set. It should be used to revenge kill opposing sweepers with Ice Shard, as it is difficult to switch in by virtue of its poor defensive typing. For this reason, it is always wise to preserve Mamoswine as much as is prudent during the match. Generally speaking, whenever Mamoswine is not required to use Ice Shard, one should simply use its fantastic coverage to punch holes in the opponents team, as only extremely bulky Pokemon can stomach repeated Life Orb-boosted hits. Keep in mind that Rotom-W should be only targeted with Freeze Dry on the switch unless it is significantly weakened, while Gyarados must be scouted in order to determine its set before you stay in on it to use Freeze Dry.

    Team Options
    ========
    Mamoswine's vulnerability to strong Water- and Fighting-type attacks makes Mega Venusaur and Latias good partners. In return, Mamoswine can threaten Tyranitar, Aegislash, and Heatran. Similarly, Heatran makes a nice teammate, as it can repeatedly switch into Scizor, as well as defeat Skarmory. Mamoswine is generally more suited to offensive teams, whose dedicated sweepers appreciate its wallbreaking and revenge killing abilities.


    Focus Sash
    ########
    name: Focus Sash
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Endeavor
    move 3: Ice Shard
    move 4: Earthquake
    ability: Oblivious
    item: Focus Sash
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    nature: Jolly / Adamant

    Moves
    ========
    As this set focuses on reliably setting up Stealth Rock, it is the primary move, and with a Focus Sash, Mamoswine is almost certain to set it up. Endeavor makes further use of the Focus Sash and effectively turns Mamoswine's poor defensive capabilities into an effective means of crippling an opposing Pokemon. Ice Shard is useful for picking off Pokemon brought down to 1 HP by Endeavor, as well as revenge killing throughout the match. In the last slot, Earthquake is a strong STAB attack that still hits hard despite the lack of a boosting item.

    Set Details
    ========
    A Jolly nature is used to set up Stealth Rock as quickly as possible, and, importantly, outspeed common leads such as Breloom and Smeargle as this set is designed as a lead itself. However, Adamant is viable to provide more power to Earthquake and Ice Shard, particularly if using the latter to revenge kill opposing sweepers late in the game. Focus Sash is vital for this set, as it allows for almost guaranteed Stealth Rock and maximizes Endeavor's potential. This set does not need to survive strong Fire-type attacks and would much rather prevent Taunt from opposing leads such as Deoxys-S and Greninja, making Oblivious the ability of choice.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    You should nearly always be using this set as a lead, so setting Stealth Rock is generally the primary focus. Pokemon that bring Mamoswine to low health or to the Focus Sash can be eliminated by using Endeavor followed by priority Ice Shard. However, it might not always be ideal to set up Stealth Rock on the very first turn. Against some faster leads, Endeavor can be used immediately on an expected attacking move. The opponent will likely realize that Ice Shard is coming and switch. With good play, this can be your opportunity to set up Stealth Rock. Because of situations like this, it is important to avoid mindlessly laying down Stealth Rock on the first turn, especially if you see the likes of Greninja, Rotom-W, or Terrakion as an opposing lead. Also, be wary about sacrificing Mamoswine early in the game, as Ice Shard remains very useful as a revenge killing tool after its Focus Sash has been broken.

    Team Options
    ========
    This set is most suited to offensive teams that benefit from reliable Stealth Rock on the opponent's side. Wallbreakers such as Dragonite and sweepers such as Thundurus appreciate both Stealth Rock support and Mamoswine's ability to cripple an opposing Pokemon via Endeavor. As the set is a dedicated lead, it might have problems with opposing Focus Sash leads, especially Smeargle and Breloom. As such, Espeon is a good partner to make Smeargle think twice about using Spore or entry hazards of its own.

    Other Options
    ########
    As far as alternate moves go, Mamoswine's movepool is quite sparse. Stone Edge has good synergy with Earthquake, but is generally inferior to Mamoswine's Ice-type STAB moves and Superpower. Mamoswine can also make use of a Choice Band for more immediate power than Life Orb, but being locked into Earthquake is undesirable and easy for the opponent to exploit. Likewise, a Choice Scarf allows Mamoswine to act as a dedicated revenge killer; however, it is outclassed by other Choice Scarf users such as Garchomp, which sports better typing.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Physical Walls**: Skarmory can switch into any attack relatively easily and set up hazards of its own or remove Stealth Rock with Defog. Defensive Rotom-W can switch into Icicle Crash and Earthquake easily and threaten to spread burns or just KO with Hydro Pump. Similarly, defensive Gyarados can stomach any single physical hit thanks to Intimidate and deal heavy damage with STAB Waterfall. Both of these Pokemon must be wary of Freeze Dry, though.

    **Common Priority**: Scizor and Azumarill resist Ice Shard and can strike back with a super effective Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet, respectively. Similarly, Talonflame can pick off a slightly weakened Mamoswine with its faster priority in Brave Bird.

    **Faster Pokemon Resistant to Ice-type Attacks**: Generally, any naturally faster Pokemon that can take an Ice Shard and KO in return serve as good checks. Keldeo, Manaphy, Infernape, and Starmie are good examples here.
    Last edited: May 11, 2014
  2. Sturdynips

    Sturdynips
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    379
    A couple of comments/questions:
    I slashed Icicle Spear because I think it is definitely viable, it gained popularity in late BW and I feel it warrants a slash. I'm fine with moving it to AC if required though.
    I'd also like to make Jolly the only slash on the focus sash set. I've kept Adamant there for the moment but really the set is all about getting rocks up not breaking walls. Some input on this would be good
  3. Toxicosis

    Toxicosis

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2013
    Messages:
    63
    I don't know about Superpower on the first, this generation's Rotom-W/Ferrothorn is heavier on the Physical side.. I realize it's mostly text from last generation though.

    252+ Atk Mamoswine Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 99-117 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO
    252 Atk Mamoswine Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 90-107 (29.7 - 35.3%) -- 20.9% chance to 3HKO
    252+ Atk Mamoswine Superpower vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Ferrothorn: 178-210 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    -1 252+ Atk Mamoswine Superpower vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Ferrothorn: 118-140 (33.5 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 Atk Mamoswine Superpower vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Ferrothorn: 160-190 (45.4 - 53.9%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO

    And you probably know what happens if you stay in on Ferrothorn (Need Spikes to 2HKO, unless Ferrothorn lacks Leftovers), while Rotom-W threatens with Will-o-Wisp/Hydro Pump. Oblivious is an interesting choice, I kind of forgot it got changed this generation, but losing the Thick Fat leaves you open to Fire-type attacks (and a pseudo-resistance to Ice).. it's a trade-off, especially if you really want those Rocks up early
  4. Namso

    Namso
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,304
    Mention in the first set that Icicle Spear also breaks Breloom's Focus Sash, a very common Focus Sash lead. Instead of stating to use Mamoswine's coverage to dent walls, just say to use it to punch holes in the opposition in general. Its attacks hit like trucks against those that are not extremely bulky. Under usage tips, also mention that preserving Mamoswine and not letting it die so early is always a good idea, as that priority Ice Shard can be extremely handy (mention this when you talk about Ice Shard).

    In the second set, I don't think I like the thought of mentioning Pokemon that take attacks that Mamoswine is weak to. The premise is to set up Stealth Rock and Endeavor the opponent, so you kind of want Mamoswine to be brought down to 1 HP to make use of Endeavor, meaning taking Grass- or Water-type attacks from something could be helpful. Mentioning Pokemon that benefit from Stealth Rock is fine, such as wallbreakers and heavyhitters. I would also like you to include a usage tip stating that, depending on the lead, you can use Endeavor first turn to bring the opponent down to Ice Shard range. The opponent should realize Ice Shard is going to be used next turn because the two moves basically go hand-in-hand, meaning they will likely switch out to something to tank that. This is where you can set up Stealth Rock for free. Mention some leads where this strategy could work.

    Remove dual screens from OO, that's a gimmick.

    QC 1/3
  5. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,318
    Knock Off should be mentioned on the Physical Attacker - probably in the slot with Superpower and Stealth Rock.
  6. Sturdynips

    Sturdynips
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    379
    Implemented Fuzznip's changes.

    I have added Knock Off to Set Details, but it is possibly worth a slash either alongside stealth rock, or replace it entirely on the first set. QC advice on this would be good.

    Toxicosis Remember to include life orb into calculations with Superpower - it is a guaranteed 2HKO on Ferro. You're correct that Rotom-W takes the hit better than gen 5, but Superpower is still the best coverage move Mamo has
  7. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,152
    Good work

    Keep Knock Off in Set Details

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  8. Sturdynips

    Sturdynips
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    379
    I'll have this written up sometime today
  9. Sturdynips

    Sturdynips
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    379
    This is written up - I decided to make Jolly the only ability on the second set but it's easy to add Adamant if it is really necessary
  10. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,735
    QC APPROVED 3/3
  11. Shroomisaur

    Shroomisaur Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Messages:
    947
    As you say on the Focus Sash set, it should nearly always be used as a dedicated lead. However, it gets shut down by other common leads such as Smeargle. Because of this, I'd suggest that you add Espeon/Xatu as team options specific to that set. Espeon fits right in on offensive teams and makes a great partner by defeating Smeargle and Breloom while making opponents think twice about using status/hazard moves. This can help Mamoswine switch in again if it's brought down to the sash early as well.
  12. Sturdynips

    Sturdynips
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    379
    Thanks Ginga!

    Shroomisaur, that's a good point! Smeargle is a particular target now that Breloom is immune to its bounced spore, but i'll mention Espeon
  13. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,362
    GP check
    Add
    Remove
    Comments

    Show Hide

    Overview
    ########
    While Generation 6 VI brought few boons to the colossal mammoth, it retains its role as an excellent check to some of the most threatening Pokemon in OU. Mamoswine's high base 130 Attack coupled with outstanding Ice / + Ground offensive coverage and priority in the form of Ice Shard allows it to KO dangerous sweepers such as Landorus, Garchomp, and Noivern, as well as deliver crippling blows to opposing walls. Access to Stealth Rock and the useful Endeavor make Mamoswine a unique offensive lead,(RC) :(colon) a set buffed by new Oblivious mechanics that prevent it from being affected by Taunt, while still maintaining its revenge killing capabilities.

    However, Mamoswine's poor defenses and weakness to common attacking types makes make it difficult to switch into offensive Pokemon, and its relatively low base speed Speed means that it will often lose to offensive Pokemon that it cannot defeat with Ice Shard. This is compounded by a significant weakness to many priority attacks, notably Bullet Punch, Mach Punch, and Aqua Jet. Mamoswine's offensive lead set faces strong competition from other dedicated leads such as Deoxys-S, and the new Defog mechanics make the guaranteed Stealth Rock from the this set less effective.

    Despite its flaws, Mamoswine is a formidable force on the field, as its dual ability to revenge kill prominent threats and as well as break through tough walls is second to none.

    Physical Attacker
    ########
    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Ice Shard
    move 3: Icicle Crash / Icicle Spear
    move 4: Superpower / Stealth Rock
    ability: Thick Fat
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    ivs: 29 HP

    Moves
    ========
    Mamoswine's movepool is far from expansive, however but it has access to everything it needs to be both a strong revenge killer and an excellent wall(nospacehere)breaker. Earthquake is a very powerful STAB move with nice coverage, and Ice Shard provides priority to revenge kill a large number of threats, particularly Dragons. Icicle Crash is a strong secondary STAB attack that has amazing neutral coverage with Earthquake, hitting Grass-(AH) and Flying-types super effectively, while having a handy 30% flinch chance. Alternatively, Icicle Spear is an interesting option that can break through Substitutes and Focus Sash users -(RH) :(colon) Gliscor, Smeargle, and Breloom are relevant examples. The latter two are common Focus Sash leads, so Icicle Spear can potentially KO them through the Focus Sash. It also has the benefit of 100% accuracy although , though it is, on average, weaker than Icicle Crash. Superpower is the preferred choice in the final slot to hit the likes of Rotom-W and Ferrothorn harder than Mamoswine's STAB moves. It is also useful to hit Steel-types using Air Balloon, such as Excadrill and Heatran. Finally, Stealth Rock is an option,(AC) but it is generally set up more reliably by the Focus Sash set.


    Set Details
    ========
    Jolly is the preferred nature in order to outrun offensive Heatran, Adamant Gyarados, and Breloom. Outspeeding Breloom is important,(AC) as Jolly Mamoswine's Ice Shard will strike before Jolly Breloom's Mach Punch, whereas Adamant Mamoswine does not outspeed Jolly Breloom. Despite this, Adamant is viable to provide greater wall(remove space)breaking potential against Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Rotom-W in particular. The 50% reduction of fire moves makes Thick Fat the ability of choice, allowing As it gives it a neutrality to Fire-type attacks(maybe mention ice resistance :O?) , Thick Fat is the ability of choice, allowing Mamoswine to survive strong Fire-type attacks such as +1 Genesect's Flamethrower and Choice Scarf Heatran's Fire Blast. A Life Orb is ideal to maximize attacking power while retaining the versatility of switching moves, and subsequently the 29 IVs in HP minimize Life Orb recoil as well as Stealth Rock damage. Mamoswine also has access to Knock Off, which with its new mechanics could be useful in the final move slot if Superpower and Stealth Rock are undesired.


    Usage Tips
    ========
    There are very few complexities involved with this Mamoswine set. It should be used to revenge kill opposing sweepers with Ice Shard, as it is difficult to switch in by virtue of its poor defensive typing. For this reason, it is always wise to preserve Mamoswine as much as is prudent during the match. Generally speaking, whenever Mamoswine is not required to use Ice Shard, one should simply use its fantastic coverage to punch holes in the opponents team, as only extremely bulky Pokemon can stomach repeated Life Orb-(AH)boosted hits.

    Team Options
    ========
    Mamoswine's vulnerability to strong Water-(AH) and Fighting-type attacks makes Celebi and Latias good partners. In return, Mamoswine can threaten Tyranitar, Jirachi, and Heatran. Similarly, Heatran makes a nice teammate, as it can repeatedly switch into Scizor, as well as defeat Skarmory and Bronzong. Mamoswine is generally more suited to offensive teams, whose dedicated sweepers appreciate its wall(remove space)breaking and revenge killing abilities.


    Focus Sash
    ########
    name: Focus Sash
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Endeavor
    move 3: Ice Shard
    move 4: Earthquake
    ability: Oblivious
    item: Focus Sash
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    Moves
    ========
    As this set focuses on reliably setting up Stealth Rock, it is the primary move, and with a Focus Sash,(AC) Mamoswine is almost certain to set it up. Endeavor makes further use of the Focus Sash, and effectively turns Mamoswine's poor defensive capabilities into an effective means of crippling an opposing Pokemon. Ice Shard picks is useful for picking off Pokemon brought down to 1(space)HP by Endeavor, as well as revenge killing throughout the match. In the last slot, Earthquake is a strong STAB attack that still hits hard despite the lack of a boosting item.


    Set Details
    ========
    A Jolly nature is used to set up Stealth Rock as quickly as possible, and as this set is designed as a lead, outspeeding common leads such as Breloom and Smeargle is important. However, as with the Physical Attacking physical attacker set, Adamant is viable to provide more power behind to Earthquake and Ice Shard, particularly if using the latter to revenge kill opposing sweepers late in the game. Focus Sash is the crux of the set(dont use 'crux of this set', rephrase), as it allows for almost guaranteed Stealth Rock and maximizes Endeavor's potential. Unlike the Physical Attacker physical attacker, this set does not need to survive strong Fire-type attacks, and preventing Taunt from opposing leads such as Deoxys-S and Greninja makes Oblivious the ability of choice.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    You should nearly always be using this set as a lead, so setting Stealth Rock is often the primary focus. Against Pokemon who that bring Mamoswine to low health or to the Focus Sash,(RC) can be eliminated by using Endeavor followed by priority Ice Shard can remove them. However,(AC) it may not always be ideal to set up Stealth Rock on the very first turn. Against some faster leads, Endeavor can be used immediately on an expected attacking move. The opponent will likely realize that Ice Shard is coming, and switch. With good play, this can be your opportunity to set up Stealth Rock. In this way, it is important to avoid mindlessly laying down Stealth Rock on the first turn, especially if you see the likes of Greninja, Rotom-W, or Terrakion as an opposing lead. Again, be wary about sacrificing Mamoswine early in the game, as Ice Shard remains very useful as a revenge killing tool after the its Focus Sash has been broken.


    Team Options
    ========
    Like the Physical Attacker physical attacker, this set is also most suited to offensive teams who that benefit from reliable Stealth Rock on the opponent's side. Wall(remove space)breakers such as Dragonite and sweepers like such as Thundurus appreciate both Stealth Rock support and Mamoswine's ability to cripple an opposing Pokemon via Endeavor. As the set is a dedicated lead, it may might have problems with opposing Focus Sash leads, especially Smeargle and Breloom. As such, Espeon is a good partner to make Smeargle think twice about using Spore or entry hazards of its own.

    Other Options
    ########
    As far as alternate moves go, Mamoswine's movepool is quite sparse. Stone Edge has good synergy with Earthquake, but is generally inferior to Mamoswine's Ice-type STAB or moves and Superpower. Mamoswine can also make use of a Choice Band for more immediate power than Life Orb, but being locked into Earthquake is undesirable,(RC) and easy for the opponent to exploit. Likewise, a Choice Scarf allows Mamoswine to act as a dedicated revenge killer, however ; however, it is outclassed by other Choice Scarf users such as Garchomp and Genesect, who sport better typing and coverage, respectively.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    Mamoswine's excellent neutral coverage and high Attack make outright countering it a difficult task. Skarmory and Bronzong can switch into any attack relatively easily and set up hazards of their own, or, in Skarmory's case, remove Stealth Rock with Defog. Defensive Rotom-W can switch into Icicle Crash and Earthquake easily, and threaten to spread burns or just KO with Hydro Pump. Rotom-W also avoids the 2HKO from Adamant Life Orb Superpower thanks to the Attack drop. Similarly, defensive Gyarados can stomach any one single hit thanks to Intimidate and deal heavy damage with STAB Waterfall. Priority is an effective check to Mamoswine; Scizor and Azumarill resist Ice Shard and can strike back with super effective Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet, respectively. Similarly, Gale Wings Talonflame can pick off a slightly weakened Mamoswine with its faster priority in Brave Bird. Generally, any naturally faster Pokemon who can take an Ice Shard and KO in return serve as good checks. Keldeo, Lucario, Terrakion, and Starmie are good examples here. It must be noted that all of the aforementioned previously mentioned checks and counters must be wary of switching into a 1HP Endeavor at 1 HP.

    good job with the analysis man, dont be misled by the number of changes; many are repititive and some are clarity changes ^.^
    gp 1/2
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
  14. melvni

    melvni
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,148
    I've flipped it around on your analysis for you, but just so you know for you're next one, the order on the set for evs, ivs (if required), and nature should be

    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    ivs: 29 HP
    nature: Jolly / Adamant

    not

    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    ivs: 29 HP
  15. Sturdynips

    Sturdynips
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    379
    Implemented, thanks Kingler! :)

    Ah, sorry about that melvni, I'll be aware of it in the future
  16. melvni

    melvni
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,148
    Checking this fully myself now.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple
    Show Hide
    Overview
    ########
    While Generation IV XY brought Mamoswine few boons to the colossal mammoth, it retains its role as an excellent check to some of the most threatening Pokemon in OU. Mamoswine's high base 130 Attack coupled with outstanding Ice + Ground offensive coverage and priority in the form of Ice Shard allows it to KO dangerous sweepers such as Landorus, Garchomp, and Noivern, as well as deliver crippling blows to opposing walls. Access to Stealth Rock (add comma) and the useful Endeavor (add comma) make and Oblivious also enables Mamoswine to run a unique offensive lead: a set buffed by new Oblivious mechanics that prevent it from being affected by Taunt, set that cannot be Taunted while still maintaining its revenge killing capabilities.

    However, Mamoswine's poor defenses and weakness to common attacking types make it difficult to switch into offensive Pokemon, and its relatively low base Speed means that it will often lose to offensive Pokemon that it cannot defeat with Ice Shard. This is compounded by a significant weakness to many priority attacks, notably Bullet Punch, Mach Punch, and Aqua Jet. Mamoswine's offensive lead set faces strong competition from other dedicated leads such as Deoxys-S, and the new Defog mechanics make the guaranteed Stealth Rock from this set less effective.

    Despite its flaws, Mamoswine is a formidable force on the field, as its ability to revenge kill prominent threats as well as break through tough walls is second to none.

    Physical Attacker
    ########
    name: Physical Attacker
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Ice Shard
    move 3: Icicle Crash / Icicle Spear
    move 4: Superpower / Stealth Rock
    ability: Thick Fat
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    ivs: 29 HP
    nature: Jolly / Adamant

    Moves
    ========
    Mamoswine's movepool is far from expansive, but it has access to everything it needs to be both a strong revenge killer and an excellent wallbreaker. Earthquake is a very powerful STAB move with nice coverage, and Ice Shard provides priority to revenge kill a large number of threats, particularly Dragons. Icicle Crash is a strong secondary STAB attack that has amazing neutral coverage with Earthquake, hitting Grass- and Flying-types super effectively, while having a handy 30% flinch chance. Alternatively, Icicle Spear is an interesting option that can break through Substitutes Substitute and Focus Sash users: Gliscor, Smeargle, and Breloom are relevant examples. The latter two are common Focus Sash leads, so Icicle Spear can potentially KO them through the Focus Sash. (this seems redundant) It also has the benefit of 100% accuracy, though it is, on average, weaker than Icicle Crash. Superpower is the preferred choice in the final slot to hit the likes of Rotom-W and Ferrothorn harder than Mamoswine's STAB moves. It is also useful to hit Steel-types using Air Balloon, such as Excadrill and Heatran. Finally, Stealth Rock is an option, but it is generally set up more reliably by the Focus Sash set other variants of Mamoswine (you don't want to explicitly reference other sets by name if possible because it makes it difficult to clean up an analysis if, for instance, sets are removed due to metagame shifts).


    Set Details
    ========
    Jolly is the preferred nature in order to outrun offensive Heatran, Adamant Gyarados, and Breloom. Outspeeding Breloom is important, as Jolly this ensures Mamoswine's Ice Shard will strike before Jolly Breloom's Mach Punch, whereas Adamant Mamoswine does not outspeed Jolly Breloom. Despite this, Adamant is viable to provide greater wallbreaking potential against Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Rotom-W in particular. As it gives a neutrality to Fire-type attacks and a resistance to Ice-type attacks, Thick Fat is the ability of choice, allowing Mamoswine to survive strong Fire-type attacks such as +1 Genesect's Flamethrower and Choice Scarf Heatran's Fire Blast. A Life Orb is ideal to maximize attacking power while retaining the versatility of switching moves, and subsequently the 29 IVs in HP minimize Life Orb recoil as well as Stealth Rock damage. Mamoswine also has access to Knock Off, which with its new mechanics could be useful in the final move slot if Superpower and Stealth Rock are undesired (this is a move so it should be mentioned under moves, not set details; moves that aren't slashed onto the main set should still be mentioned in that section).


    Usage Tips
    ========
    There are very few complexities involved with this Mamoswine set. It should be used to revenge kill opposing sweepers with Ice Shard, as it is difficult to switch in by virtue of its poor defensive typing. For this reason, it is always wise to preserve Mamoswine as much as is prudent during the match. Generally speaking, whenever Mamoswine is not required to use Ice Shard, one should simply use its fantastic coverage to punch holes in the opponents team, as only extremely bulky Pokemon can stomach repeated Life Orb-boosted hits.

    Team Options
    ========
    Mamoswine's vulnerability to strong Water- and Fighting-type attacks makes Celebi and Latias good partners. In return, Mamoswine can threaten Tyranitar, Jirachi, and Heatran. Similarly, Heatran makes a nice teammate, as it can repeatedly switch into Scizor, as well as defeat Skarmory and Bronzong. Mamoswine is generally more suited to offensive teams, whose dedicated sweepers appreciate its wallbreaking and revenge killing abilities.


    Focus Sash
    ########
    name: Focus Sash
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Endeavor
    move 3: Ice Shard
    move 4: Earthquake
    ability: Oblivious
    item: Focus Sash
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    nature: Jolly / Adamant

    Moves
    ========
    As this set focuses on reliably setting up Stealth Rock, it is the primary move, and with a Focus Sash, Mamoswine is almost certain to set it up. Endeavor makes further use of the Focus Sash, (remove comma) and effectively turns Mamoswine's poor defensive capabilities into an effective means of crippling an opposing Pokemon. Ice Shard is useful for picking off Pokemon brought down to 1 HP by Endeavor, as well as revenge killing throughout the match. In the last slot, Earthquake is a strong STAB attack that still hits hard despite the lack of a boosting item.


    Set Details
    ========
    A Jolly nature is used to set up Stealth Rock as quickly as possible, and as this set is designed as a lead, outspeeding and, importantly, outspeed common leads such as Breloom and Smeargle (add comma) is important as this set is designed as a lead itself. However, as with the physical attacker set, (you don't want to reference other sets like this if possible because these are going to be in different tabs on-site so it would look a little weird since people can read them out of order and stuff; plus like I said earlier, there's always the chance the meta changes and sets are removed) Adamant is viable to provide more power to Earthquake and Ice Shard, particularly if using the latter to revenge kill opposing sweepers late in the game. Focus Sash is vital for this set, as it allows for almost guaranteed Stealth Rock and maximizes Endeavor's potential. Unlike the Physical Attacker, this This set does not need to survive strong Fire-type attacks, (remove comma) and preventing and would much rather prevent Taunt from opposing leads such as Deoxys-S and Greninja (add comma) makes making Oblivious the ability of choice.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    You should nearly always be using this set as a lead, so setting Stealth Rock is often generally the primary focus. Pokemon that bring Mamoswine to low health or to the Focus Sash can be eliminated by using Endeavor followed by priority Ice Shard. However, it may might not always be ideal to set up Stealth Rock on the very first turn. Against some faster leads, Endeavor can be used immediately on an expected attacking move. The opponent will likely realize that Ice Shard is coming, (remove comma) and switch. With good play, this can be your opportunity to set up Stealth Rock. In this way Because of situations like this, it is important to avoid mindlessly laying down Stealth Rock on the first turn, especially if you see the likes of Greninja, Rotom-W, or Terrakion as an opposing lead. Again Also, be wary about sacrificing Mamoswine early in the game, as Ice Shard remains very useful as a revenge killing tool after its Focus Sash has been broken.


    Team Options
    ========
    Like the physical attacker, this This set is also most suited to offensive teams that benefit from reliable Stealth Rock on the opponent's side. Wallbreakers such as Dragonite and sweepers such as Thundurus appreciate both Stealth Rock support and Mamoswine's ability to cripple an opposing Pokemon via Endeavor. As the set is a dedicated lead, it might have problems with opposing Focus Sash leads, especially Smeargle and Breloom. As such, Espeon is a good partner to make Smeargle think twice about using Spore or entry hazards of its own.

    Other Options
    ########
    As far as alternate moves go, Mamoswine's movepool is quite sparse. Stone Edge has good synergy with Earthquake, but is generally inferior to Mamoswine's Ice-type STAB moves or and Superpower. Mamoswine can also make use of a Choice Band for more immediate power than Life Orb, but being locked into Earthquake is undesirable and easy for the opponent to exploit. Likewise, a Choice Scarf allows Mamoswine to act as a dedicated revenge killer; however, it is outclassed by other Choice Scarf users such as Garchomp and Genesect, who which sport better typing and coverage, respectively.

    Checks & Counters
    ########
    Mamoswine's excellent neutral coverage and high Attack make outright countering it a difficult task. Skarmory and Bronzong can switch into any attack relatively easily and set up hazards of their own, or, in Skarmory's case, remove Stealth Rock with Defog. Defensive Rotom-W can switch into Icicle Crash and Earthquake easily, and threaten to spread burns or just KO with Hydro Pump. Rotom-W also avoids the 2HKO from Adamant Life Orb Superpower thanks to the Attack drop. Similarly, defensive Gyarados can stomach any single hit thanks to Intimidate and deal heavy damage with STAB Waterfall. Priority is an effective check to Mamoswine; Scizor and Azumarill resist Ice Shard and can strike back with super effective Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet, respectively. Similarly, Gale Wings Talonflame can pick off a slightly weakened Mamoswine with its faster priority in Brave Bird. Generally, any naturally faster Pokemon who can take an Ice Shard and KO in return serve as good checks. Keldeo, Lucario, Terrakion, and Starmie are good examples here. It should be noted that all of the previously mentioned checks and counters must be wary of switching into a 1 HP Endeavor.


    I haven't checked your Checks & Counters section because it isn't in the right format. You're supposed to have it as a sort of threatlist like it is in the example for Smeargle from the template thread:

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Magic Bounce**: Pokemon with Magic Bounce hard counter hazard-laying Smeargle. Due to its complete lack of offensive capability, Smeargle is unable to do anything to Magic Bounce users. However, note that they may be unable to stop a Baton Pass user in a heads-up match since Shell Smash will make Smeargle faster than other

    **Hazard Removal**: Since Smeargle is typically KOed early in the match, Rapid Spin and Defog can eliminate entry hazards place by Smeargle at a later time and completely undermine it's efforts. (Defog is guaranteed to remove hazards)

    **Taunt**: Faster Pokemon with access to Taunt are the best answers to Smeargle. They're capable of preventing Smeargle from doing anything of note (though they should be wary of Magic Coat), and can often force Smeargle to switch out or Struggle.

    **Grass-types**: Grass-type Pokemon hold the distinction of being immuneto Spore, and as such, cannot be set up on. This makes them capable of limiting Smeargle's hazard laying, preventing it from inflicting Sleep, and forcing it to use its Focus Sash early in the match. However, as always, Smeargle can still Baton Pass at least one boost, so more defensive Grass-types may not be effective.

    Once you've fixed that I or someone else will give it another look over, so for now call this something like

    GP: 1.853/2
  17. Sturdynips

    Sturdynips
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    379
    Thanks melvni, much appreciated! I've implemented the changes and have structured the C&C section correctly
  18. melvni

    melvni
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,148
    Alright than consider this...

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Physical Walls**: Skarmory and Bronzong can switch into any attack relatively easily and set up hazards of their own, (remove comma) or, in Skarmory's case, remove Stealth Rock with Defog. Defensive Rotom-W can switch into Icicle Crash and Earthquake easily, (remove comma) and threaten to spread burns or just KO with Hydro Pump. Rotom-W also avoids the 2HKO from Adamant Life Orb Superpower thanks to the Attack drop. Similarly, defensive Gyarados can stomach any single hit thanks to Intimidate and deal heavy damage with STAB Waterfall.

    **Common Priority**: Scizor and Azumarill resist Ice Shard and can strike back with super effective Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet, respectively. Similarly, Gale Wings Talonflame can pick off a slightly weakened Mamoswine with its faster priority in Brave Bird.

    **Naturally Faster Pokemon Resistant to Ice Shard**: Generally, any naturally faster Pokemon who that can take an Ice Shard and KO in return serve as good checks. Keldeo, Lucario, Terrakion, and Starmie are good examples here.

    GP: 2/2
  19. Sturdynips

    Sturdynips
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    379
    Done! Thank you.
  20. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,362
    Also in the common priority part

    uhh gp 3/3 ?_? lol idk
  21. Sturdynips

    Sturdynips
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    379
    nice catch kingler, cheers!
  22. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    1,380
    Sturdynips

    Alright so Freeze Dry needs a mention in the Set Details on the Physical Attacker set. Before you laugh at me, check this out:

    4 SpA Life Orb Mamoswine Freeze Dry vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 140-166 (46.2 - 54.7%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    Rotom-W is #1 on usage stats, it's one of the best switch-ins to Mamoswine overall, and almost all of the Rotom-W's are physically defensive because of Talon. Superpower is mostly just for Ferrothorn, and Stealth Rock is only used if your team doesn't already have a SR setter, so I see no reason not to run Freeze Dry otherwise. The only change is that it runs a Naive or Naughty nature opposed to Adamant / Jolly. I've actually seen this quite a bit on the upper ladder, and it's an absolutely amazing lure that shouldn't be ignored, regardless of how shitty it looks on paper. Also this is pretty cool too:

    4 SpA Life Orb Mamoswine Freeze Dry vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 302-359 (90.9 - 108.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    So yeah, two big switch-ins into Mamoswine are fucked. AC mention at the VERY least, although I personally think it's good enough to get slashed in just because of how relevant Rotom-W is and how less important hitting Ferrothorn harder is. Superpower hits Rotom-W for similar damage, but unlike Freeze Dry, it can't 2HKO due to the Attack drop.

    Just my two cents. QC can tell me to fuck off if they want me to, but I've seen people pull this off so successfully that it looks good enough to at least get a big mention, maybe even a slash.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2013
  23. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,318
    I know I too am not QC but I sadly have to agree - Freeze Dry is stupid good on Mamoswine. I know it seems very trolly but hitting your #1 counter for a 2HKO as well as other possible Water-type switch-ins is fucking ridiculous. I have sadly been the victim of Freeze Dry Mamoswine and allow me to say - it isn't fun to face.
    Gary2346 likes this.
  24. Sturdynips

    Sturdynips
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    379
    Gary2346, good call! i spoke to PK and a couple of other QC members on IRC and decided that Freeze Dry is best suited to move details. I'll test it out a bit more later on though
  25. ColtCababa

    ColtCababa

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    161
    Considering Physical Attacker Mamoswine's reliability in setting up Stealth Rock, I'd like to state that it does it fairly sufficiently with the amount of switches it forces and, when used as a lead, it can masquerade as the Focus Sash lead and catch opposing common leads, such as Thundurus, off guard if they choose to Taunt. Even without setting up Stealth Rock, immediately threatening to KO opposing leads, as well as Magic Bounce switch-ins (they're all generally frail), with it's raw power will quickly bring the matchup in your favor.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)