Mamoswine

Taylor

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People tend to interpret Ice Shard as a given on most Mamoswine because first and foremost, he is there to slay Dragon-type Pokemon. It's a shame that the Salamence/Dragonite may only need one Dragon Dance, and without priority, there on it can be rather embarrassing.

The fact Ground and Ice are its STAB moves and the coverage they provide is widespread, Superpower/Stone Edge offer different but equally useful qualities to its set. Running both Superpower/Stone Edge may often wind up being redundent considering you have Ice and Ground covering the majority of types out there, while one selection still has its targets but you still have room for priority Ice Shard; just in case. It helps versus Choice Scarf users like Landorus also.
 

ElectivireRocks

Banned deucer.
Choice band/scarf Mamo shouldn't be used as a revenge killer regardless.

The problem with Ice Shard is that being locked into a low power move on a choice set is generally a terrible idea because your opponent can simply switch out and setup as soon as he notices the lack of Life Orb recoil, which is a giveaway that you're running a choice set.

What if he switches into something like Cloyster and uses Shell Smash in your face? You can't do anything because you're locked into Ice Shard.

If you need Mamo to revenge kill stuff stick to Life Orb IMO. Expert Belt to bluff a choice set could work too, I guess.
 
You could say the same thing about most Choiced Pokemon.
Maybe, but Ice is particularly bad as an offensive type in many scenarios and Ground is never a favorable type to be locked into. After STAB, Mamoswine doesn't have any particularly reliable moves to abuse with a Choice item as far as I'm concerned
 

BurningMan

fueled by beer
Maybe, but Ice is particularly bad as an offensive type in many scenarios
i have to disagree here Ice is actually one of the better types to be locked in considering that there are only three set-up sweepers that are resistant to it (Luke, Cloyster and Volc). You're right about ground though.
 

Matthew

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I wouldn't say CB Mamo is a bad pokemon at all. I prefer to run LO because I honestly don't like choice items as a whole (aside from my baby Specs Gastrodon). You run into the same problems that Zacchaeus with basically any choice pokemon. "Oh no if I use this Fighting-type move on my Terrakion their Reun can come in and set up!" Or, "Shit they have a Specs Gastrodon, I guess my Specs Rotom-W is completely useless this game until it's gone!" Much like how you would never want to spam Hydro Pump from a Specs Rotom when your opponent has a Toxicroak on their team, you wouldn't want to spam Earthquake while your opponent has something that is immune to it. Ice-type moves, while terrible to be locked into often, are still a God-send this metagame. Dragon-types everywhere and being able to OHKO a Dragonite through multiscale with Icicle Crash (hopefully they don't DD!) is sweet as hell. I much rather have Mamoswine's STABs than Rotom-W's STABs in all honesty.
 
But you gotta consider the face ES is +2. Sorry if obvious
In the last moveset statistics, 55% of Dragonite carried extremespeed, granted this was during Deoxys-S Era of November. It kinda gets murky though since a lot of Dragonite sets use Extremespeed. I'm not sure how well Mamoswine would take it at full health, but I'm sure with his large HP stat Mamoswine can tank one.

On Mamoswine, I'm inclined to have an Adamant nature since most Dragonite's don't run Jolly, but the speed tie is a little unsettling. What's the consensus on Adamant vs Jolly? Missing out on that 40 extra points with Adamant makes the difference of Mamoswine hitting hard to just normally.
 

Matthew

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I honestly prefer running Jolly so I can outpace Adamant Lucario and Timid Heatran; two pokemon which can usually completely threaten Mamoswine by themselves. The extra Attack with an Adamant nature, though, can be used for a solid 3HKO on Skarmory with Icicle Crash (assuming Life Orb)
 

AccidentalGreed

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+1 Adamant Dragonite deals 48.8% - 57.6% to 4/0 Mamoswine. +2 deals 64.8% - 76.5%.

Depending on the situation, this is either Dragonite's saving grace or ticket for failure. If Multiscale is broken and Mamoswine is at full health, Dragonite loses (though at this point Dragonite should be using Outrage, not Extremespeed). However, if either of these factors are not in effect (Multiscale activated or Mamoswine having lost half of its health), then Ice Shard Mamoswine loses.
 

alexwolf

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If using Scarf Mamo, Icicle Spear is a must. Being able to revenge kill Dragonite through MS while outspeeding at +1 is awesome! Many times i have been running 3 Ice moves on Scarf Mamo since SE is almost never needed. Ice Shard is a failsafe for even +2 Dragonite, or +1 Haxorus and Salamence, Icicle Spear is for killing Dragonite through MS and Icicle Crash is the strongest and more reliable Ice move you have.
 
In the last moveset statistics, 55% of Dragonite carried extremespeed, granted this was during Deoxys-S Era of November. It kinda gets murky though since a lot of Dragonite sets use Extremespeed. I'm not sure how well Mamoswine would take it at full health, but I'm sure with his large HP stat Mamoswine can tank one.

On Mamoswine, I'm inclined to have an Adamant nature since most Dragonite's don't run Jolly, but the speed tie is a little unsettling. What's the consensus on Adamant vs Jolly? Missing out on that 40 extra points with Adamant makes the difference of Mamoswine hitting hard to just normally.
Very sorry. Because I use an odd Dragonite with DD/ES/Waterfall/Roost @ lefties with max attack, speed and 4 HP. I always hated being walled by balloon Tran so I always use waterfall rather than EQ. Besides, water along with normal gets really good coverage. (I swap out against jelly anyway for fear of burn so not hitting that was ok.
 
Mamoswine (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Endeavor

The definitive mamoswine set in this metagame, LO sets get knocked about by the ever common rotom-w and scizor and choice sets fare even worse. If you have spinner support or not this guy can act as a great failsafe to practically anything with endeavour and ice shard.
 
Very sorry. Because I use an odd Dragonite with DD/ES/Waterfall/Roost @ lefties with max attack, speed and 4 HP. I always hated being walled by balloon Tran so I always use waterfall rather than EQ. Besides, water along with normal gets really good coverage. (I swap out against jelly anyway for fear of burn so not hitting that was ok.
Ummmm... DDnite without Outrage is like Terrakion without Close Combat, or Staraptor without Brave Bird, but this isn't the time for that.
 
Ummmm... DDnite without Outrage is like Terrakion without Close Combat, or Staraptor without Brave Bird, but this isn't the time for that.
That's an absurd affirmation. Dragon Claw can be used in order to be able to switch moves and it's a totally acceptable option over Outrage. Being able to switch moves against Ferrothorn, the prime Nite check can earn you a game or a good sweep.
 

BurningMan

fueled by beer
That's an absurd affirmation. Dragon Claw can be used in order to be able to switch moves and it's a totally acceptable option over Outrage. Being able to switch moves against Ferrothorn, the prime Nite check can earn you a game or a good sweep.
I think he meant DDNite without any Dragon move, since the set he quoted only had Waterfall and Extreme speed as attacking moves.
 
Mamoswine (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Ice Shard
Pure strongness. Sky-high Speed, 430, still a great Attack, amazing coverage with the STAB Ice-Ground, Stone Edge to hit Gyarados and Volcarona, and Ice Shard is a priority, which is always helpful. On the defensive side, Thick Fat replaces the useless Slow Cloak, and the even more useless Oblivious, giving a Boltbeam great resistance, can switch in any sweeper relying on Hidden Power Ice for coverage such as Jolteon or Zapdos, and sweep. Though, as Superpower can't be used with Thick Fat, Ferrothorn is one of the main counters, as can set up Entry Hazards while sponging attacks or 2HKO with Power Whip or Gyro Ball, both super-effective and really strong.

About Dragonite... i'm not a fan of Outrage because locks you, but every DDNite should have both a Dragon-type move and Extremespeed, and for coverage can choose Earthquake, Fire Punch, Fire Blast, Hyper Beam, Shock Wave etc.
 
Pure strongness. Sky-high Speed, 430, still a great Attack, amazing coverage with the STAB Ice-Ground, Stone Edge to hit Gyarados and Volcarona, and Ice Shard is a priority, which is always helpful. On the defensive side, Thick Fat replaces the useless Slow Cloak, and the even more useless Oblivious, giving a Boltbeam great resistance, can switch in any sweeper relying on Hidden Power Ice for coverage such as Jolteon or Zapdos, and sweep. Though, as Superpower can't be used with Thick Fat, Ferrothorn is one of the main counters, as can set up Entry Hazards while sponging attacks or 2HKO with Power Whip or Gyro Ball, both super-effective and really strong.

About Dragonite... i'm not a fan of Outrage because locks you, but every DDNite should have both a Dragon-type move and Extremespeed, and for coverage can choose Earthquake, Fire Punch, Fire Blast, Hyper Beam, Shock Wave etc.
Yay it's Bruno!

First off, unless you're in Dream World, that Choice Scarf Mamoswine set is illegal. You mentioned Superpower, but forgot a few other tiiiny moves that make Mamoswine what it is. Thick Fat Mamoswine, only being released as a fully-evolved male Mamoswine, cannot learn: Ice Shard, a pre-evolution move from Swinub; Icicle Crash, an egg move; and Icicle Spear, an egg move. Thank God Earthquake is a TM, cause GameFreak being what it is, that'd be illegal too...
 
Yay it's Bruno!
Yay it's me!
First off, unless you're in Dream World, that Choice Scarf Mamoswine set is illegal. You mentioned Superpower, but forgot a few other tiiiny moves that make Mamoswine what it is. Thick Fat Mamoswine, only being released as a fully-evolved male Mamoswine, cannot learn: Ice Shard, a pre-evolution move from Swinub; Icicle Crash, an egg move; and Icicle Spear, an egg move. Thank God Earthquake is a TM, cause GameFreak being what it is, that'd be illegal too...
If so, Snow Cloak completely outclasses every possible Thick Fat use. Can't use Superpower is bad, but STAB Earthquake is often better. Without Icicle Crash and Ice Shard moves Mamoswine sucks, so, until the DW Swinub release, Thick Fat can't be used. Disappointing.
 
Yo guys, I recently tried a mixed a Life Orb set consisting of Blizzard / Earthquake / Ice Shard / Superpower with 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd and a Naughty nature for my hail team. Although gimmicky, I hits the standard Skarmory for 50.3% - 59.3% damage. Only problem is aside from hitting Skarm, theres not much use...
 

haunter

Banned deucer.
LO icicle crash can do up to 40% to max HP\Def impish Skarm and always 2hko the specially defensive one (and you don't have a shaky 70% acc move outside of hail). Unless the rest of your team is completely walled by Skarmory I don't think that blizzard is necessary.
 
Looking at a few posts above, I want to ask: Is it better to use Thick Fat mamo for the ability, or non-DW Mamo for the access to Ice Shard and Icicle Crash?
 

Arcticblast

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Mamoswine's biggest (and perhaps only) selling point is its Ice STAB, particularly Ice Shard. So until female DW Mamo is released, Snow Cloak will be the better ability.
 

November Blue

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Black Rain, Icicle Crash and Ice Shard are two of Mamoswine's best moves. Passing these up just for Thick Fat is NOT worth it.

How popular is Choice Scarf + Icicle Spear? It seemingly deals with Dragonite just as well as the Band + Ice Shard set.
 

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