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Man of Steel (1927 ACRE at the moment)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Montezuma II, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. Montezuma II

    Montezuma II

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    15
    MAN OF STEEL
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Hey guys, this is my second RMT that I'm adding to this forum, and it's a pretty neat team centered around the standard Swords Dance Lucario. The team ultimately functions by weakening or straight up KO'ing pokemon that Lucario tends to struggle with, so that I can ultimately get a late game sweep with it. I've managed to ladder up to 2050+ with this team, but there are some flaws with it that can ideally be sorted out with some help from raters. With all that said and done, lets get into a more in depth analysis of the team.
    The Team
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Crunch
    - Swords Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed
    The team was created with the goal of pulling of a late game sweep with Lucario, because despite being such a magnificent Pokemon, I haven't seen it being used too often nowadays. I opted to go with an adamant nature over jolly because most of the Pokemon who I would out-speed when I'm jolly nature ultimately get demolished by ExtremeSpeed coming from an adamant nature. The only things I really miss out on out-speeding with an adamant nature are Hydreigon and Jirachi, both of which can be dealt with by my team fairly easily. Other than that, the moves I've chosen are fairly standard on SD Lucario. I'm running crunch over ice punch unlike most people, because I've found that most things that are hit by ice punch for good damage out-speed Lucario and KO it, making ExtremeSpeed the only option in practically all cases. However, Crunch I found was a very handy move that could nail Jellicent and Gengar on switch in, seeing as how both of these Pokemon (especially Jellicent), seem to enjoy switching into Lucario a bit too much for my tastes. Finally, Justified is the preferred nature over steadfast, because the ability to get up to +1 in attack by switching into a move I 4x resist was opted for over not flinching, especially because it can be tough at times to set up with Lucario, seeing as how it's so frail.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Gyarados @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 88 HP / 248 Atk / 4 Def / 168 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Dance
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake
    Bulky Dance Gyarados is a new addition to the team over the Bronzong that I had run. Although there are certain things Bronzong did better, such as wall most dragon types better, as a pivotal Pokemon, Gyarados has been working wonders. Gyarados can help deal with quite a few physical threats with intimidate, and helps my team deal with Sun and Rain teams much better. As far as moves go, I chose to run earthquake over bounce, mostly because I'm not a particularly huge fan of the move bounce, because anything with protect or substitute can play around it without a problem. I'm also not a huge fan of the switches it allows my opponents to make, so overall, earthquake just seemed like the better option. Although it doesn't ever pull off a sweep, Gyarados does serve to be an invaluable member of the team because of the sheer amount of pressure it can place on my opponent. Thanks to Lugios for suggesting it.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 60 HP / 252 SAtk / 196 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Earth Power
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    Celebi is on the team mostly to do one thing, lure in dark type attacks so Lucario can nab a free attack boost. The fact that it's a great Pokemon is mostly an added bonus. Most of the time, Celebi draws in Tyranitar, a Pokemon who loves to try and pursuit trap it for days on end. However, when they see how much damage leaf storm is doing, it tends to opt to straight up KO me with a crunch rather than risk me staying in on their pursuit. At this point, I switch out to my Lucario and get up to +1. Even if they hit me with a pursuit, it ultimately still gives me a free switch into my Lucario, and my opponent has to choose to either lose his Tyranitar to a Close Combat, or switch and risk me setting up on him. Other than this purpose, Celebi can also catch most Heatran and Magnezone by surprise with earth power, as these Pokemon love to switch into the specially defensive set. Also, due to it's great over all bulk, it can still serve as a switch in to things like Starmie, Politoed, and Rotom-Wash. Hidden Power Fire was placed over Recover because of how good of a bait Celebi is for Scizor, and ensures that Swords Dance variants won't get any free boosts up on Celebi.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Gary (Latios) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Sleep Talk
    - Trick
    In order for Lucario to pull off a sweep, most Pokemon on the field have to be weakened to a certain degree. That's why I decided to put two Wall Breakers on the team. The first of these is Latios. I don't feel like I have to sit here and talk about why Specs Latios serves as a magnificent wall breaker, but I'll do it anyway. It has sky high special attack with the specs intact, great speed, and relatively good bulk. Top all of that off with access to stab Draco Meteor, and you have a Pokemon that wreaks havoc. I opted to go for Sleep talk over Surf to help the team deal with things like Amoongus and Breloom better. As for the 4th moveslot, many people suggested surf to hit things like Tyranitar and Heatran harder, however, I found that even with the specs intact, surf was just not useful enough, and thus, trick was opted for. It's very useful to cripple many of the switch ins to Latios, and ultimately opens up plenty of room for Lucario to set up. Mainly against things like Blissey and Tyranitar.

    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    Tyranitar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Crunch
    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Ice Beam
    After playing with the team a couple of times, I realized that sand would end up being a vital addition to it, as it reduced the risk of me being swept by Venusaur, while also helping me deal with rain, and the occasional hail team. Generally, all Tyranitar has to do is stay alive until the opposing team's weather setter or abusers are sufficiently weakened. After this, I can usually freely use this thing as death fodder, because nothing on my team really NEEDS sand to function. Other than helping me deal with weather teams, Tyranitar can also serve as a great special wall. It also functions as my stealth rocker and perfect bait for Landorus-T, who threatens both Lucario and Terrakion from pulling off a sweep. On top of all of this, the residual damage provided by sandstorm comes in quite handy against stallier teams, inhibiting leftovers recovery and allowing bulkier pokemon to be worn down significantly faster.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Rock Slide
    - X-Scissor
    Terrakion serves as the replacement for a previous member of the team, Conkeldurr. Although it does not break through walls as easily, nor absorbs status as well, Terrakion adds some well needed speed to the team. It also comes in handy that it's another pokemon with access to the move justified, which gives me another great switch into choiced Tyranitars and Scizors who attempt to trap my celebi. Consequentially, most things that counter Lucario are also the things which counter Terrakion, meaning that both of them can ultimately work together to weaken and muscle through walls really well. Scarf Terrakion, despite not hitting as hard as Conkeldurr, makes my team significantly less weak to set up sweepers (especially Volcarona), outspeeding most of the more prominent ones, even at plus one.
    Conclusion

    That's about it for the team. It's proven to be fairly successful in the first few battles that I've had with it, but it's definitely not a perfect team. There are certain Pokemon that this team struggles with greatly, and I'm simply not sure as to how I would fix them without screwing up what I've already got going. I've managed to ladder up to 2058 ACRE with all of the changes suggested by raters, so I appreciate all of the help I've recieved with the team.
    Threats

    [​IMG] Terrakion is a pain because of it's rock polish set. It can come in on my Tyranitar at any time and get off a free boost. My main way of dealing with set up sweepers, my own scarf Terrakion, is outsped by it, and it has a 93.75% chance to OHKO Gyarados after stealth rock. I can generally play around the choiced sets with predictions and the check the choice band set with my own Terrakion, however, it's Rock Polish set continues to be a pretty troublesome one to face.

    Here's an importable for anyone who want's to test this team out.
    Feel free to suggest any changes you have for the team. I'll take all of them into consideration.
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
    jg1198 and scotti like this.
  2. Jirachee

    Jirachee I devote this Custom Title to Dice, my Supreme Overlord
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,563
    Hello

    That's a pretty cool team, and while you'll have no issues breaking down defensive teams, I think you're gonna have issues against offensive teams. Your team itself kinda lacks speed even though you have nice priority from both Lucario and Conkeldurr. On top of that, Volcarona looks like a huge threat to your team. It can set up on Celebi, Latios and Bronzong extremely easily and then you can do... nothing. Other speed boosters like Dragonite or Gyarados can also be very threatening since they set up very easily and you have to rely on walling them with Bronzong which won't work consistently considering Dragonite pretty much always runs Fire Punch and Gyarados doesn't give a fuck about any of Bronong's moves (Bounce Gyara cleanly sweeps you). I think that a scarfer would really help you fight these issues. Try out a Choice Scarf Terrakion instead of Conkeldurr. Terrakion is a great revenge killer for all of these threats thanks to its Rock STAB moves. Terrakion shares many counters and checks with Lucario so if you're able to lure in something like Jellicent or Skarmory and eliminate them with Lucario, you will be able to clean pretty well with Terrakion's fast and powerful Close Combats.

    Like you said, SD Scizor looks like a pretty huge deal for your team. To be fair, I'd say that Venusaur is also an equally huge threat. Your team would probably really benefit from running Heatran over Bronzong. Heatran allows you to smoke Scizor really easily unless you play recklessly and switch into Superpower or something. It also handles Venusaur pretty well and if you play well Dugtrio shouldn't be able to trap both Heatran and Tyranitar. Bronzong and Heatran are pretty similar defensive Steels so there shouldn't be other big changes from that, except losing a Garchomp counter which sucks I guess.

    I'd DEFINITELY use Ice Beam on Tyranitar. I really don't understand why you don't have it. Superpower is cool and all but since your team is based on sweeping with Lucario, you really miss out on a huge thing if you're not using the best lure for its best counter... Using 188 SpA EVs ensure that you will always OHKO 248 / 0 Lando-T which is the bulkiest on the special side that you'll encounter really.

    I don't think Hidden Power Fire is especially useful for your Latios, as your main sweeper absolutely destroys Steels anyway. Tyranitar happens to be the #1 enemy for Latios as once it comes in, Latios is dead. HP Fire is just extra incentive for Tyranitar to come in and trap you. Surf would probably be a more useful move here. Surf wrecks both Scizor and offensive Tyranitar on switch-ins which are its main Pursuiters. It also has the added bonus of doing lotsa damage to Heatran and offensive Jirachi, stuff that people like to switch into Latios if they don't have any other good answer. Something else I'd change would be using Trick instead of Psyshock. Psyshock indeed ruins Blissey, but that's about it. Trick allows you to beat Blissey, Chansey, and Ferrothorn, all of which are pretty big Latios counters.

    Here are the sets you should use:
    Show Hide

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Justified
    Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    ~Close Combat
    ~Stone Edge
    ~Rock Slide
    ~X-Scissor

    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Flash Fire
    Timid
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    ~Fire Blast
    ~Earth Power
    ~Hidden Power Ice
    ~Stealth Rock


    Good luck!
  3. Montezuma II

    Montezuma II

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    15
    Hey! I really appreciate that really long rate. I'll check out the Terrakion set that you suggested, although it is a bit worrisome to lose such a surefire way to check opposing terrakion and absorb status, the things you mentioned actually do seem pretty threatening. Heatran's weakness to ground type moves could also prove to be a problem, but I'll check to see whether the set you gave me works out. Ice Beam on Tyranitar and Surf on latios also have the potential to be good ideas, but I really do need to stick with running psyshock over trick, as a reliable stab that doesn't lower my special attack has come in handy numerous times. I'll test out these changes to see which ones work for me.
  4. Lugios

    Lugios

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Jirachi made some great suggestions to the team that are all very viable. That Sun weakness is HUGE on this team and a late game Volcarona or Venasaur can wreck havoc in the sun. The scarf set Terra would be a great addition to the team and adds some much needed speed and checks many would be sweepers. While Heatran walls most sun teams once its few counters are taken out, I can understand your concern about the Equake and fighting weaknesses it adds. So.... my recommendation would be to change a couple of things.

    You can run Stealth Rock on Tyranitar as he makes an excellent SR user due to the free turns he creates and secondly adding Icebeam to him allows him to hit Lando which is a common Ttar counter. Keep Fire Blast to hit those pesky steal types that can stop your Extreme Speed sweep. The decision is yours on whether to run Pursuit or Crunch and both have their uses but unfortunately you're left with only enough room for one.

    By making TTar your SR user it allows you to get rid of Bronzong for something that can counter Sun teams while still retaining some physical bulk. Enter Bulky-Dance Gyarados. This thing can wreck Volcarona and can be a real threat to sun teams. He comes in for free on Donphan trying to spin hazards and can proceed to set up a sub and dance away. Its important to know that this guy is not a sweeper but is instead a role player on your team. He works as a great check for many Sun and Rain abusers alike including Scizor, Toxicroak, and Volcarona. It also covers Lucarios type weaknesses.

    Hope this helps as I really like the team. Lucario is an excellent late game sweeper that can leave unprepared teams wondering what hit them. Let's make his usage rise :).
  5. swwaaggeerr

    swwaaggeerr

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    49
    Lucario cud run ice punc to hit landy t and gliscor if u put t tar on trapping duty. If scizor is a real hassle u shud switch bronzong with baloon tran. Celebi shud b spdef because strong water attacks will eventually get through ur team. Latios shud hav surf so it dusnt lose speed ties on gengar and wat not. T tar shud defintly run ice beam to lure physical walls. Banded conk seems outclassed by band terrakion because conk is used for its bulk which is mitigated by superpower
  6. Montezuma II

    Montezuma II

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    15
    Thanks for the suggestions! I will try out Stealth Rock on Tyranitar and see how he works out. Yeah, Heatran added a bit too much of a ground weakness to the team, and it made things like rock polish Landorus-T a pretty massive threat. I'll see how well bulky dance gyarados works out, it seems pretty promising so far, and it does make a great partner to Lucario, so I appreciate that!

    I'm already trying to see how well bulky dance gyarados would work for the team as far as counters to Sun go. However, if that doesn't work as planned, I'll give latias a go in place of latios. The loss in damage output seems a bit alarming, but I will give it a try.
  7. pjbball04

    pjbball04

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Messages:
    139
    yeah, volcarona is a massive threat to this team, so throwing stone edge on ttar might help with that. i believe he will survive a +1 bug buzz
  8. rachet67

    rachet67

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2013
    Messages:
    593
    Have you thought about putting baton pass on celebi to avoid pursuit and bring in Lucario for the boost? You could drop hp fire as it would no longer have to worry about scizor

    Then again, if you would be a little more weak to getting sweeped by scizor.
  9. Grey Knight

    Grey Knight

    Joined:
    May 25, 2013
    Messages:
    356
    Its a nice team , it has has many elements that helps lucario to sweep like having latios on the game so you can set up on the locked pursuits and having sand so you can stack up residual damage on poks like keldeo that need a small amount of damage before the get on the xspeed range,
    but i think that a choice band would suit terrakion a lot more you could use as a lead to fake a stealth rock set and get massive damage on skarmory or just use it on the early game so you weaken physical walls like gliskor and hippo as terrakion can 2hko them easily with the right prediction
    if you want to keep the scarf then latios is good choice.

    i hope i helped ,sorry for my English i am European
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013
  10. Montezuma II

    Montezuma II

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
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    I'll check it out, I've never particularly been the biggest fan of Scarf Latios, but I can see where you're coming from in terms of faking a Stealth Rock set with Terrakion.
  11. Montezuma II

    Montezuma II

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
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    Hp fire is somewhat of a necessity so that scizor doesn't get a free switch, I've attempted putting Baton Pass on Celebi, but taking any moves off of it resulted in it losing the chance to hit some rather crucial pokemon.
  12. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,654
    Hey there I think you can make a simple change in replacing gyarados with a Specs Keldeo. Keldeo allows you to handle scizor (arguably) better because it allows you to ohko it and it isn't stealth rock weak. It switches in much easier because of that and has a lot more opportunities to come in and just dent a pokemon. It's also not a bad answer to sun as it can 2hko venusaur on the switch with hydro pump (outside of sun). It also baits in tentacruel so you can weaken it for lucario to take out or not even worry about.

    Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Secret Sword
    - Hydro Pump
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
  13. Montezuma II

    Montezuma II

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
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    Alright, I'll check it out. Gyarados has been working out pretty well so far, but Keldeo seems to fit into the idea of softening things up for Lucario a bit more.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2013

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