[MANDATORY] TEAM BUILDING HOMEWORK ASSIGNMENT

blarajan

Rest in Bling
is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
VGC Co-Leader
#1
There are a lot of teams from people here that seem to be struggling with how to conceptualize the mechanics of VGC. It's hard to recognize that building doesn't work like it does when you can use all six Pokemon; it isn't sufficient to just check the rest of your team's weaknesses...you have to figure out how all of the Pokemon work together in 4 Pokemon modes. Otherwise, it does not matter if your fifth Pokemon on paper checks everything perfectly if you cannot bring it without your team being worse.

There are likewise a lot of bad sets and bad moves being used, things that are clearly unviable. Support moves like Rapid Spin, entry hazards, random Pokemon having four attacks for no reason, unnecessary set-up Pokemon, things along those lines. A lot of the sets seem to be struggling with how a VGC game is paced and what can be reliable and what is very inconsistent.

So here's what we're going to do.

http://www.trainertower.com/european-international-championships/
http://www.trainertower.com/san-jose-regionals-vgc-2017/
http://www.trainertower.com/vgc-17-dallas-regionals/
http://www.trainertower.com/vgc-17-georgia-regionals/

Look through one of the teams there. I want you to pick 2-3 of them (try to pick ones that you think are probably good, or just catch your fancy). Make sure the ones you pick are not ones you have seen on stream or know the sets to. Put the six Pokemon in your team builder, and then think about how the Pokemon work together.

Then fill it in. Moves, items, EV spreads. I want you to put them together in a way that you think works together, conceptualizing how you would bring modes in a battle and how you would play with the choices you've made.

Then post in this thread with the teams you made. YOU MUST JUSTIFY YOUR DECISIONS SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS.

You must complete this assignment before being able to post your teams. I will lock teams here on out that do not comply with these instructions.

After all, while the point of this subforum is to help struggling builders (which we will do more when the VGC players step out of exam season!!), some of the teams are so unviable or structurally unsound that the only advice we could possibly give is "delete it, try again, and get better."

Give a [hu]man a Pokemon team, and you help [them] for a ladder session. Teach a [hu]man to build a Pokemon team, and you help [them] for a lifetime.

I want us to work on how we approach VGC teams before we post teams that cannot be salvaged. Put in a good faith effort or your submission will not be counted.

Also, if you've posted a thread already and want to make edits to your team on your own, let me know. I will delete your old thread and you can post a new one.

Thanks!
 
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blarajan

Rest in Bling
is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
VGC Co-Leader
#2
People who have completed assignment and can post teams:

RebornFX
bluecooljay14
ethan06
Vradek
charroshi
redhatdude2
ElementOfSmash
Solarman
Level51
Mystical
Nech
y2zipper
Fufu
cheshirecat1917
oceanking33
CalmBatRadio
Garrus01
tigertomd
GreenNinjask
Bnellis02
ShadowRKaiser
I.care.0
Naruto0408
coolmodean
Sardus21
Raagentreg
Chouru
Nighty
blubobebabi
FighterVGC
Ashtray
lucariomaster2
Max_Ibuki
RlyCoolCat
C.ViperIsBestWaifu
Ptcdbrown
Raahxen
Van0li
Reukyr
Kimlitevin
Debo37
MuskratTuck
Kyrk
jedirb

PS: I will probably let some teams eke through even though they didn't post here because they clearly get VGC building. If I do that, don't get mad at me because I'm letting them and not you. You just suck a little bit more and that's okay!!

Note: being on the list of having completed the assignment doesn't mean you aren't garbage. If your teams that you post are still objectively horrible they can still get locked or I might ask you to try again.
 
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#3
Okay, I've taken Ruben Yanguas' team since it looks pretty strong on paper and seems quite dynamic in all of the different options it has. In all reality, the spreads are probably more tailor made for the team, factoring in calcs at -1 from Intimidate and after Aurora Veil.

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 28 HP / 4 Def / 204 SpA / 28 SpD / 244 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Volt Switch
- Protect

Okay, on this team I don't really think Tapu Koko was meant to be the star of the show, but it's here to beat the waters and flying types that the rest of the team tends to struggle with. In particular, Mudsdale really struggles with Celesteela and Gyarados. It also is a fast, strong mon able to chunk key threats so that other team members can finish them off. I chose to use this set as it seems that max speed is only really required to compete with a handful of Pokemon, being Salazzle, max speed Persian, Aerodactyl, Crobat and opposing Koko. The additional power that modest Koko gets allows it to clean OHKO pretty much all variants of Celesteela and Politoed in electric terrain, as well as KO naive no bulk Mence. Dazzling Gleam is still a 2HKO on Garchomp and has a 30% chance to OHKO Naive Mence. Volt Switch is here to retreat from unfavourable matchups while getting very respectable damage off, when there is little risk of a Protect/form of priority. I was contemplating a sash set, but that doesn't make much sense considering it is paired with Hail. The defensive EVs kind of hit fairly irrelevant benchmarks, being surviving an adamant max attack Flare Blitz from Arcanine, a modest max sp.atk Sludge Bomb from Goodra and makes Timid max sp.atk Dazzling Gleam from Lele a 3HKO. The speed outspeeds max speed base 112s (or more relevantly base 110s like Gengar and things trying to speed creep them).

Ninetales-Alola @ Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Aurora Veil
- Freeze Dry/Icy Wind
- Protect

Ninetails seems to be here as a way to compete in the weather war, set up Aurora Veil (as well as Hail breaking any potential focus sashes) and to beat Grounds for Tapu Koko. It also further helps deal with Flying types, as well as Bulu for Mudsdale and additionally just provides a strong spread move (with a nice freeze chance :P). Aurora Veil is an incredible move to allow my team members to better take hits. Paired with AV Mudsdale with Stamina to increase it's physical defence + Intimidate it can be really difficult to deal with, especially once Ground immunities are eliminated. I'm torn between Freeze Dry and Icy Wind. Freeze Dry provides the team with another way of beating Gyarados (that Marowak and Mudsdale both struggle with) without dealing with Lightning rod shenanigans and relying on Koko, while Icy Wind is just nice Speed control, especially considering my Koko isn't max speed. I'm definitely leaning towards Freeze Dry though. I chose Sash over Light Clay just to ensure that I set up Aurora Veil or get off a strong Blizzard. Another fast mon to function well outside of TR. EVs are obvious, considering it survives any hits that it needs to survive already with its sash. There may be some benchmarks that it could hit but I can't really think of any at the moment.

Gyarados @ Waterium Z
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 52 HP / 196 Atk / 76 Def / 4 SpD / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang
- Dragon Dance
- Protect

Gyarados provides the team with Intimidate, a Ground immunity (for EQing beside, as well as a switch in to ground moves for Tapu Koko and Marowak). It beats grounds for Koko and Marowak (while Marowak protects Gyarados from electric attacks) and provides the team with a setup option to take advantage of Aurora Veil. At +1, the water Z-move OHKOs Celesteela. The EVs survive an adamant -1 Wild Charge from Arcanine, again not the most relevant benchmark but I couldn't think of any better ones. At +1, Gyarados out speeds max sped base Salazzle and anything below it. This spread can almost certainly be optimised, as I feel there are more relevant benchmarks to hit and the speed investment may be a bit excessive (for example, maybe just outspeed max speed base 115s like Persian at +1) since Salazzle isn't that prevalent (at least not right now).

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Atk / 116 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Earthquake
- Protect

Marowak is my first TR abuser. As we probably all know, this thing hits like a truck. I decided on running min speed to outspeed opposing Marowak under TR, as well as function better overall in TR and take advantage of its low speed. Marowak beats Tapu Bulu for Mudsdale and can OHKO Lele which otherwise is threatening to the team (only one resist in Oranguru), has a strong and spammable move in Shadow Bone as well as a strong spread option in EQ. It provides Lightningrod support making opposing electrics less threatening and just generally has a great matchup vs all of the relevant Tapus. Great mon :P The EVs survive a Shadow Ball from Timid non-LO Gengar.

Mudsdale @ Assault Vest
Ability: Own Tempo
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Atk / 84 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- High Horsepower
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Heavy Slam

Ahh I love Mudsdale. I've wanted to try it out in TR for a while since whenever I use it it seems like it kind of just wins if it were faster. Mudsdale is incredibly bulky, and when you add Aurora Veil and Intimidate it just doesn't die. And it hits incredibly hard. Once it's checks are dealt with this thing is really scary. It doesn't appreciate Intimidate, but with Freeze Dry Ninetails and Koko dealing with Gyarados, Ninetails beating Krook (and Mudsdale not being too threatened by it in the first place), Gyarados beating Arcanine (and Mudsdale beating it) and Ninetails, Koko and Gyarados dealing with Mence I feel I have that covered. The set makes modest Tapu lele's Psychic a 3HKO in psychic terrain.

Oranguru @ Sitrus Berry/Mental Herb
Ability: Telepathy
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 20 SpA / 92 SpD / 4 Spe
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Psychic
- Instruct
- Trick Room
- Protect/After You

And finally Oranguru, seemingly the premier TR setter in the format right now. This thing pairs nicely with Mudsdale and Marowak, allowing them to EQ freely beside it and being able to Instruct their moves. I kind of feel like I don't really need to explain why this thing is good. It provides the team with a TR mode, it isn't complete deadweight after TR is set up, it is a reliable setter, especially when Taunt doesn't seem super prevalent (I might be wrong there, didn't really get to see too many international championships games). The spread allows it to survive a Flare Blitz from Marowak and an Adamant Crunch from Krook, while OHKOing Salazzle with Psychic (again not very relevant). Protect is useful for scoutinng for Taunts and just generally the most useful move in doubles, while After You is useful on Mental Herb sets to allow faster Pokemon to still somewhat function under Trick Room.
 
#4
Every teams looks about the same?!?! Well not exactly but you know what I mean. Why is there not a single eevee pass team? I know its abit of a cheese but it dominated some of the south american premier challenge.
 
#5
Every teams looks about the same?!?! Well not exactly but you know what I mean. Why is there not a single eevee pass team? I know its abit of a cheese but it dominated some of the south american premier challenge.
I have no idea what you're talking about. 4/5 of the potential weather setters are in top cut, and the only one that isn't is the one that is most common outside of these championships (Torkoal). No two teams in Top Cut share more than 2 Pokemon. Yes 7/8 of them have a Tapu 6/8 have a Trick Room Setter and 5/8 have an intimidate user, but those are really the only similarities I see. You see much less used Pokemon choices both in and out of Top Cut, like Magnezone, Whimsicott, Goodra, Silvally, Incineroar, Tapu Fini etc. I don't really know what you were expecting. The fact that you're upset not to see a well known gimmick in a much more serious championship shows that you have unreal expectations.

And anyway, not the point of this thread...
 
#6
I decided to go with Ben Kyriakou's team, as it seems structurally sound and I enjoy using the Pokemon on his team.

Oranguru @ Mental Herb
Ability: Telepathy
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 116 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Protect
- Psychic
- Instruct

Oranguru is the trick room setter of this team. His job is to get in and set up, as well as supporting with instruct. Pairs well with Ninetales as well if you are up against a team that is weak to ice. The defense EVs are just enough for it to survive a Flare Blitz from the very common Alolan Marowak. Protect allows it to scout Taunt or any move that threatens its purpose to set up.

Kartana @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- Leaf Blade
- Protect

Kartana seems to be the star of this team. Focus Sash allows it to survive a fire attack from common threats such as Marowak, Arcanine, and Torkoal. Kartana is guaranteed to get at least one KO with 181 base attack and the max investment in Attack. Jolly is the preferred nature as it allows it to outspeed Garchomp. Kartana pairs very well with Alolan Ninetales, with Aurora Veil support and hail chip damage making its job easier.

Ninetales-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 50
EVs: 52 HP / 252 SpA / 204 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Moonblast
- Protect
- Aurora Veil

Oh Alolan Ninetales, my new favorite Pokemon. I'm so excited to use one of my own! Ninetales is here to compete with the other weather setters such as Torkoal and Pelipper. Aurora Veil provides a double screen support for the team. It pairs very well with Kartana as Kartana is very frail on the special side, and Veil would help patch that weakness up. Life Orb is run on this set as it allows it to do as much damage as it can with 100% accurate Blizzards combined with Hail chip damage. Moonblast doesn't cover much that Blizzard doesn't but it a second option for stab and can KO Krookodile. Ninetales also pairs well with Oranguru against teams that are weak to ice as it can instruct Ninetales to Blizzard again, likely picking up at least one KO. The speed investment is just enough to outspeed Garchomp.

Milotic @ Adrenaline Orb
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
EVs: 132 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Blizzard
- Protect

I have always throughly enjoyed using Milotic, so this will be fun. Milotic is a very good counter to Arcanine, and since Kartana and Ninetales are very weak to it, Milotic patches up this weakness to fire. Milotic's special attack is scary after a competitive boost, and can pick up an OHKO or atleast take a huge chunk of health on almost any opponent barring Tapu Fini and Bulu. The speed investment allows it to outspeed Garchomp after a +1, and can retaliate with an Blizzard. Blizzard is the option here over Ice Beam as it will usually be on the same team as Ninetales.


Hariyama @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
EVs: 28 HP / 172 Atk / 132 Def / 172 SpD
Brave Nature
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Wide Guard
- Close Combat

Hariyama is an amazing partner for Oranguru. Provides Fake Out and Wide Guard support, all while dishing out major damage with Knock Off or Close Combat coming off of 120 Attack. The investment in SpD allows it to be able to survive a Psychic from Tapu Lele, and can retaliate with Knock Off. Wide Guard protects partners from spread moves such as Alolan Ninetales's Blizzard or Torkoal's Eruption.

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Atk / 116 SpD
Brave Nature
- Bonemerang
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Protect

Marowak is a staple, and a must have on almost any team. It provides immunity to Electric, as Koko is very popular right now. It also provides a resistance to Arcanine as well as having an immunity to Drampa's Hyper Voice. It is Oranguru's best option for a partner as it covers some of Oranguru's biggest counters such as opposing Marowaks. It dishes out tons of damage with Thick Club, and can hit anyone for at least neutral damage. Bonemerang can be substituted for Earthquake but Bonemerang seems to be the best option since it guarantees a 2 Hit-KO on Arcanine after Intimidate, as well as Torkoal. Flare Blitz is its strongest fire stab and can deal a very large amount of damage to Oranguru, as well as having a guaranteed KO on Alolan Ninetales even after Aurora Veil.
 

ethan06

⋖(☼┆☼)⋗
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
#7
k so i was bored of a night and decided to give this a shot, as the team i'm working on could use some informed second opinions and i'm not 100% on where to take it. to complete the assignment, i went with this one from the list:



The Sableye is what caught my eye here, along with the Araquanid. I found it interesting that the team had been built with three Ghost-types, but that the remaining members evened out the type chart neatly, with Porygon2 soaking Ghost-type attacks and Tapu Bulu dealing with Dark-types and weakening Earthquake with its Terrain. Here's what I came up with:

Tapu Bulu @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Stone Edge
- Protect

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang
- Protect

Araquanid @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Wide Guard
- Protect

Gengar @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Cursed Body
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 68 Def / 180 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Destiny Bond
- Protect

Sableye @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quash
- Taunt
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp


The general slowness of this team makes at least one Trick Room setter a very convenient wincon to build into the team's makeup, and I have no doubt that the Porygon2 on the original team carried it. However, with Gengar's spot on the team and the Quash option with Sableye, I felt that Trick Room wasn't the only mode that the team could viably run, and so I left the team with only one setter and built Gengar with a Modest spread that allowed it to function both in and out of Trick Room. Modest 252 outspeeds Timid Tapu Lele by one point outside of Trick Room, while allowing it to underspeed and surprise Garchomp inside of Trick Room. Gengar's Z-Crystal gives me another tool for aiding Porygon's setting up in Z-Destiny Bond, the added effect of which is identical to Follow Me; in a pinch, Gengar can function as a suicide support to guarantee a free Trick Room. In the event that Z-Destiny Bond isn't required to win a match, Never-Ending Nightmare from Shadow Ball comes in handy for picking off weakened opponents from behind Protects when people attempt to stall Trick Room turns. The Defense investment allows Gengar to live Tapu Bulu's Wood Hammer if it isn't boosted by an item, which I'm sure isn't relevant as they always are. It helps for tanking Horn Leeches in any case.

I kept the rest of the squad pretty generic as they all have pretty clear-cut roles - check meta threat xyz, hit hard. Marowak clears out Koko and Celesteela and cracks Sashes and Disguises with Bonemerang; Araquanid deals with Torkoal cheese with Quash support and has the tech Wide Guard to help with the potential Rock Slide problem. It also chunks the whole meta with Liquidation; Tapu Bulu forgoes a Choice Band and Superpower for the more flexible Life Orb and Protect; and Porygon2 has BoltBeam and Recover to help the team cope with Salamence, Garchomp and Celesteela in Marowak-unfriendly matchups and to aid in longevity and repeated Trick Room setups.

Generally, the mode I bring with this team depends on the easiness of the matchup. If the holy trinity of Ghost-types isn't overly threatened or if I think that the team's defensive synergy can cope with the opposing team's offense then I'll bring a bulky goodstuffs squad and use Quash to pick things off at my leisure. Araquanid and Tapu Bulu tend to stand out the most with Quash support. If the matchup is more unfriendly, then I'll lead Porygon2 alongside either Gengar or Sableye to ensure that Trick Room goes up and then attempt to overload the other side with offensive pressure. Gengar does well in these matchups, particularly against faster teams with threats such as Kartana, Tapu Koko, Garchomp and Alolan Ninetales.

Finally, here's a couple of replays I picked up during five minutes of low laddering (I thought I'd just check that the team worked as expected before writing it up):

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-494874755 (I decide to show off Quash for no good reason)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7vgc2017-494883095 (Grassy Terrain saves me from Garchompy death)

This was a lot of fun in the hour I put aside for it, and I may well return to this squad for some inspiration a little down the track. When I'm building my own teams, I tend to shy away from overlapping on types this much, usually because I get worried about gaps in the type chart (and because it offends my OCD) but the elegance with which this lineup sidesteps those issues is inspiring. I wonder if the weaknesses of any other typings are this easy to pack away?
 
#8
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 4 Atk / 62 Def / 180 SpD / 20 Spe
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect
- Heavy Slam

Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Protect
- Tailwind

Wishiwashi-School @ Figy Berry
Ability: Schooling
Level: 50
EVs: 52 HP / 204 Atk / 132 Def / 120 SpD
Brave Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Oranguru @ Mental Herb
Ability: Telepathy
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Foul Play
- Instruct
- Protect

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Atk / 68 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bonemerang
- Shadow Bone
- Flare Blitz
- Protect

Tapu Bulu @ Grassium Z
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Protect

This is one of the prototypes for my team. Can I get my thread the wishiwashi offensive unlocked now? Whats the point of a thread for helping build teams if the teams are supposed to already be built?

Either way onto the reasoning

Celesteela is a great defensive option that I can lead with to leech seed my opponents to help. Celesteela also allows me to predict electric switch ins to help keep Wishiwashi safe. If a team is carrying an alolan raichu or tapu koko they probably won't lead with them and will probably switch when they can't deal with celesteela after a turn or two which makes it a great for switching in alolan marowak with lighting rod. Celesteela is also annoyingly hard to kill without Tapu koko or alolan marowak's flare blitz. It's move pool is very defensive for that reason and heavy slam allows it to still deal damage without having to invest heavily on attack evs.

Pelliper serves three roles on my team. Mainly the big buff he got in gen 7 was gaining drizzle. Drizzle is important for each of the roles he serves. First and foremost drizzle will give wishiwashi a rain boosted surf or waterfall (depending on what kind of wishiwashi is being ran). Secondly drizzle will weaken the fire type moves of the alolan marowaks that will be a common threat to celesteela. Finally drizzle allows pelliper to get 100% accuracy for hurricane and that is pretty solid with a decent special attack of 95. It's damp rock is really just to extend rain long enough for oranguru to set up for wishiwashi

Wishiwashi is the center piece of the team. Not much can withstand wishiwashi ridiculous attacking stats. This prototype team is currently running an offensive wishiwashi with mixed evs throughout hp and defensive stats. The main reason my wishiwashi is currently physical is because I've found on the showdown vgc simulator a lot of people are running more specially defensive pokemon to deal with Tapu Koko and Tapu lele and this allows a not even fully invested attack wishiwashi to take down a lot of these pokemon with ease. Earthquake is for some added coverage against electric types and waterfall rainboosted stab just does ridiculous damage from wishiwashi. Finally the rest talk isn't the most reliable option but with right prediction it can make wishiwashi survive far longer than expected. The Figy berry also really helps wishiwashi, even with wishiwashi's amazing defensive stats that low health pool makes him go down to 25% health or less with almost any supereffective stat the figy berry allows wishiwashi to stay in schooling form for long than normal.

Oranguru is on the team to set up trick room to make wishiwashi and then use instruct to get easy kills with wishiwashi. Otherwise oranguru's move set is mainly support and play rough to give it a decent attacking option.

Alolan Marowak can deal with the pyschic, electric, and grass types that could potentially wall the team. It's movepool is pretty standard. It's EVs are set to take advantage of trick room while still being able to outspeed pokemon should trick room fail and pelliper needs to set up tail wind.

Finally Tapu Bulu or Tapu Koko(Still having trouble picking between these two). Either one of these Tapus deal with the potential threat of a water type walling my team, aka lapras or vaporean with water absorb. They can switch in and quickly dispatch of any water types. Tapu Bulu may be the better option tho cause alolan marowak with lighting rod is incredibly common.




Sorry that my team still has that last slot undecided. I've been doing a lot of testing on showdown and both my prototype teams with both Tapus are only a few wins apart. I went with the bulu team to put here since it had a few more. Please unlock my thread when you get the chance! Thanks!
 

blarajan

Rest in Bling
is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
VGC Co-Leader
#9
Nope! You didn't follow the prompt and wrote the assignment on something off-topic!

Maybe you think the assignment is pointless, and that's well within your right, but it's well within mine to assign it! This is Smogon UNIVERSITY after all :)

This forum isn't about helping your individual shitty teams work better. It's about coming together to help people build better, so they can individually go through and understand the process of building a team, understanding how it works, and improving it.

A valuable way to do so is take a framework that you saw succeed and try to figure out how those Pokémon work together by filling them in yourself. Kind of like what I asked you to do! I want to give you an opportunity to try to figure out what you might do when building. The value of homework can only be perceived if you take it seriously!

And if you looked through most of the locked threads, most of the users are people who seriously need help formulating teams--not theirs specifically,but in general. I'm sorry you don't like this new gate keeping assignment but frankly, I don't care. It's a valuable experiment and I need you to approach it in good faith.
 
#10
I've chosen Baris Akos team since its similar to the new team I've been working on.

Tapu Bulu @ Life Orb
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Atk / 140 Def
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Protect

Okay, so I feel that Tapu Bulu was meant to decrease the power of earthquake with Grassy Terrain, helping out Arcanine and Gigalith, while also helping the substitute Celesteela and Gastrodon recover more and place up more substitutes. Horn Leech allows it stay in the game longer. Grassy Terrain also counters damage the team receives from Sandstorm. 252 HP and 140 Def allows for a 2KO from a fully invested Celesteela heavy slam and the rest in attack to hit harder.

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 228 HP / 44 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Protect

This is a great moveset to chip away at enemy teams, while allowing for more substitutes thanks to Leech Seed, not to mention Heavy Slam, which is almost guaranteed 120 BP since it's such a fatass, lol. Investing in speed creep allows it to outspeed non-invested Celesteela. I added special defence to survive a timid Xurkitree's Thunderbolt, with remaining EVs distributed such that attack is one point higher than defence, allowing Beast Boost to boost Celesteela's attack when it picks up a KO.

Salamence @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Protect

Draco Meteor and Hydro Pump are hard-hitting moves while I ran both Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse, with Draco Meteor being run for picking up OHKOs against opposing Dragon-types and frailer attackers. Dragon Pulse was placed in to be used as a more reliable STAB option that doesn't miss or result in Salamence's Special Attack being halved. I wasn't too sure how to approach a custom EV set for Salamence so I kept it safe by maxing speed and special attack, allowing it to outspeed a lot of threats and hit hard.

Arcanine @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 60 SpA / 20 Def / 172 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flamethrower
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

Intimidate and Will-O-Wisp are to decrease physical threats and a burn is always nice to chip damage, while Flare Blitz allows it to hit hard. The EV spread I chose allows it to survive a fully invested Tapu Fini hydro pump and a fully invested Rock Slide from a Gigalith. The the remainder of the points went to speed creep other non-speed invested Arcanine and in attack to hit harder..

Gastrodon @ Rindo Berry
Ability: Storm Drain
Level: 50
EVs: 208 HP / 44 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Muddy Water
- Mud Bomb
- Substitute
- Recover

208 HP and Rindo berry was to take two Giga drains from a timid Life Orb Lilligant since there was no way to survive a Wood Hammer from a Tapu Bulu with 252 att. I thought that was important since grass is Gastrodon's only type-weakness. I then added 252 Atk to hit as hard as possible. With the remaining EV points, I put 4 in speed to speed creep other gastrodons, especially since this team isn't running TR and put the remaining points in Def to add some more bulk.

Gigalith @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Heavy Slam
- Protect

Since Gigalith is the slowest weather setter, it has the advantage of replacing the weather of any of the other setters, forcing the opposing team to reset their own weather or figure out something else. As for the EVs, I just kept it simple and maximized bulk and attack as much as possible. I put expert belt because the moveset has a wide range of offense that I think works.
 
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#13
Aight, I get'cha. I misunderstood the assignment. I thought it was to see the teams used and then base your own team on them. To clear it up tho, I wanna make an unorthodox team and I want help to try and make the idea viable regardless of how shitty people think it is. After I do the homework assignment which I can't do for a bit can I get the thread unlocked for that purpose?

Also I didn't mean to seem like I didn't like the assignment. I'm rather neutral to it. I get what you're trying to do. It just seemed contradictory to the purpose of this forum.
 
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#14
I chose Arash Ommati's team because it had the core of pheremosa + tapu lele that I had been trying out recently, so I thought I would give the team a spin

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt

It looked as if tapu lele + pheremosa was the first core of this team since they appear to have very strong offensive synergy with one another. Tapu lele appreciates pheremosa's ability to break specially defensive pokemon like oranguru. Psychic is Tapu Lele's strongest move with the psychic surge, moonblast is for the ko on garchomp, salamence and others like that, dazzling gleam is for spread damage as well as to chip things to put them in range for pheremosa. Thunderbolt is almost exclusively for celesteela but can also hit gyarados or peliper in a pinch. Max special attack because it is crucial in a lot of calculations, 164 speed allows it to outpseed neutral max pheremosa, and the rest is dumped into hp

Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Lunge
- High Jump Kick
- Poison Jab
- Protect

Pheremosa is the other half of the offensive duo and is incredibly fast and powerful. Pheremosa benefits from Tapu Lele's ability to protect it from priority, it's ability to deal chip damage with dazzling gleam to put many things in range of Pheremosa's attacks, and to break physically defensive pokemon. Lunge is its most spammable move with no drawbacks that allows it to do significant damage to pokemon such as oranguru and alolan raichu. High jump kick is used to do damage to porygon2, celesteela, and is a stronger yet riskier stab option. Poison jab is there to ohko tapu bulu as well as 2hko tapu koko and tapu lele. Protect is to shield it from double targets that are bound to happen with a frail pokemon like this with a sash.

Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Freeze-Dry
- Aurora Veil
- Protect

Ninetails is a pokemon that I had a lot of trouble figuring out why it is on this team, and I think it's put here as another fast pokemon but also as a pokemon to cancel out opposing weather and hit water types for decent damage. Blizzard is to do some nice spread damage and ko dragons and 2hko tapu bulue. Freeze-Dry is to ko gyaraods peliper and gastrodon, and give you an ice move to use outside of hail. Aurora Veil is to let oranguru incineroar and araquanid eat up more hits, and protect is protect. Light clay is because sash was taken and having aurora veil up longer comes in handy.

Incineroar @ Incinium Z
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Atk / 4 Def / 44 SpD / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Darkest Lariat
- Fake Out
- Protect

I think incineroar is a pokemon that was added to cover a lot of the weaknesses of the rest of the team such as celesteela and marowak. Flare blitz is its strongest attack and is there to deal with celesteela and tapu bulu. Darkest Lariat is it's stronges dark move and deals with marowak and does good damage to some pokemon that resist fire. Fake out is to help oranguru set up trick room, ninetails to set up aurora veil, or any pokemon to get a free attack off. Protect is there because I didn't see any moves that would work better. Incinium Z is because I realized no other pokemon on the team would utilize the z cystal well, and it could chunk a lot of pokemon so my others can deal with them. the evs outspeed 4 speed celesteela and moonblast from timid max lele is a 3hko. A faster spread might be better so it could outspeed tapu bulu, but the bulk and attack are pretty important.

Oranguru @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Psychic
- Instruct
- Trick Room
- Protect

I think Oranguru was added on earlier in development as a partner in crime to araquanid. Psychic is so it has something to do if it gets taunted. Instruct is to support araquanid in trick room but also make it so that fast pokemon can work in trick room too. Trick room is to go for a late game araquanid sweep and also to beat opposing speed control. Protect is mostly a filler move at the moment because nothing else caught my eye, but it can be useful if it is predicted for oranguru to be double targeted. Sitrus berry is used because ornaguru is probably used as a late game setter in the back rather than as a lead and taunt is far less common in the back. The EV spread was ripped out of Wolfe's guide which is ev'd to have a good chance to live 2 tapu koko wild charges as well as a krookodile knock off.

Araquanid @ Mystic Water
Ability: Water Bubble
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Poison Jab
- Protect

Araquanid was probably added after the pheremosa tapu lele core to help deal with the fire types that trouble them. It is usually played in the back to try to sweep under trick room. Liquidation is it's main move that is what will be used most of the time due to its sheer power. Leech life is to hit things that resist liquidation as well as provide some recovery. Poison jab is exclusively for tapu bulu which is important enough to dedicate a moveslot. Protect is to take no damage when ornaguru trick rooms. Mystic water is to give it a guranteed ohko on tapu koko and allows it to protect. The ev spread is arbitrary but max attack is needed so the only thing could do is move the hp around.
 
#15
Aight, I get'cha. I misunderstood the assignment. I thought it was to see the teams used and then base your own team on them. To clear it up tho, I wanna make an unorthodox team and I want help to try and make the idea viable regardless of how shitty people think it is. After I do the homework assignment which I can't do for a bit can I get the thread unlocked for that purpose?

Also I didn't mean to seem like I didn't like the assignment. I'm rather neutral to it. I get what you're trying to do. It just seemed contradictory to the purpose of this forum.
how is the team you suggested earlier unorthodox? I don't know much about the EV spread and typical moveset of Pelipper and Wishiwashi, but your team in general is full of very commonly used Pokemon based on my knowledge.

As someone also new to VGC team building, the issues I see with that team are that its slow and can easily get outsped by many common threats like Tapu Koko. Actually, half your team has issues against electric moves and your only defense against that is Lightning Rod Marowak-A. Going back to the speed aspect, you don't have a mon with Swift Swim and "after you" to help with all your slow mons and have a fast mode for your team. Right now it just looks like you're going to rely on TR, but if the opponent has a TR counter, it doesn't look like you have a plan B, making your team one-dimensional.

Wishiwashi, based on your EV stats, can only 2KO a Tapu Koko (without rain, while only having a 50% chance of OKO in rain), while Tapu Koko (if invested in physical attack) and Tapu Bulu (completely uninvested in anything) can outspeed and OKO Wishiwashi, which aren't uncommon mons. Also, why Figy Berry, why not Sitrus Berry? It heals more and doesn't cause confusion.

Oranguru is not invested in atk, so idk why you would choose Play Rough since it won't hit hard (though your moveset has foul play, which is different than your explanation). I would choose "after you" instead of Play Rough to help with Pelipper and Tapu Bulu, since they won't be as effective within TR.

I chose to focus on Wishiwashi and Oranguru because they are central to your team. I would also try to get someone with intimidate or Will-O-Wisp to burn and neuter physical attackers. Those would be my suggestions. Hope it helps :)
 

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#16
thank you all so far for taking this thread so seriously! I'll be looking through responses tomorrow and updating the status of some threads!
 
#17
how is the team you suggested earlier unorthodox? I don't know much about the EV spread and typical moveset of Pelipper and Wishiwashi, but your team in general is full of very commonly used Pokemon based on my knowledge.

As someone also new to VGC team building, the issues I see with that team are that its slow and can easily get outsped by many common threats like Tapu Koko. Actually, half your team has issues against electric moves and your only defense against that is Lightning Rod Marowak-A. Going back to the speed aspect, you don't have a mon with Swift Swim and "after you" to help with all your slow mons and have a fast mode for your team. Right now it just looks like you're going to rely on TR, but if the opponent has a TR counter, it doesn't look like you have a plan B, making your team one-dimensional.

Wishiwashi, based on your EV stats, can only 2KO a Tapu Koko (without rain, while only having a 50% chance of OKO in rain), while Tapu Koko (if invested in physical attack) and Tapu Bulu (completely uninvested in anything) can outspeed and OKO Wishiwashi, which aren't uncommon mons. Also, why Figy Berry, why not Sitrus Berry? It heals more and doesn't cause confusion.

Oranguru is not invested in atk, so idk why you would choose Play Rough since it won't hit hard (though your moveset has foul play, which is different than your explanation). I would choose "after you" instead of Play Rough to help with Pelipper and Tapu Bulu, since they won't be as effective within TR.

I chose to focus on Wishiwashi and Oranguru because they are central to your team. I would also try to get someone with intimidate or Will-O-Wisp to burn and neuter physical attackers. Those would be my suggestions. Hope it helps :)
Yeah my explanations were a bit rushed so please excuse some of the mistakes that aren't lining up with my stated sets. Thank you for spending the time and reading through my team idea. I'm not new to VGC so I do got some idea as to what I'm doing with my sets which are why a lot of them aren't "unorthodox" as I said. Mainly the unorthodox parts of the team was wishiwashi and the TapuKoko/AlolanMarowak pair I was planning on running together. My team does have a second option after trick room as well which would be tailwind on pelipper which would have worked really well with tapu koko (which is why I am still mixed on whether to use him or tapu bulu. Using Tapu Koko would also increase my resistance to thunder). Also on damage calculator my wishiwashi set one hit kos a standard lvl 50 tapu koko sets of 4 hp, 252 attack or special attack and 252 speed. I switch to bulu or celesteela when dealing with to deal with opposing bulu's more likely celesteela (alolan marowak is also an option for that), celesteela and bulu can also benefit from a trick room if they're trained/breed right. My marowak set up also allows it to function in both tail wind and trick room since tail wind will allow it to outspeed most of the mons it is meant to counter (such as celesteela). Also Figy berries got boosted to heal 50% at 25% health which specifically helps wishiwashi alot and I believe that is more than the sitrus berry (unless it got buffed too which I am not aware of). Also a pokemon with intimidate or burn would be a good choice, I just wish there was an ability like intimidate but for special attack cause I see special attackers as being a problem for my team.

Seriously though I really do appreciate you looking through my team and giving feedback!


Also P.S. with Pellipers buffs prepare to see sets like mine more commonly, maybe not with a damp rock but my ev layout will probably be pretty common.
 
#18
I choose Tommy Cooleens team because I personally want to make a rain team.


Tapu Koko @ Focus Sash
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Thunder
- Dazzling Gleam
- Volt Switch

Tapu Koko fits into this as a rain team with the ability to spam 100% acc Thunders in electric terrain is going to be a loot of damage on anything that it hits. Dazzling Gleam is their for STAB coverage and volt switch is their so that I have a 100% acc move outside of rain and to allow me to potentially switch into a tanker pokemon to take a hit that may have been meant for him. Protect is protect. Focus sash means he will almost always get at least two thunders (barring multi-hit moves, trick room, or status) The EV spread is very simple it allows him to outspeed most the meta and deal as much damage as possible.

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Horn Leech
- Rock Slide
- Leech Seed

Tapu Bulu fits into this team as the rain weakens very common fire moves that combined with this SubSeed set makes him a very hard pokemon to take down. Substitue means he is very good at sticking the field the 25% health cost being very manageable with all the healing this set gets. Leech seed being vital to a subseed set allows Bulu to set up recovery and chip damage at the same time making the opponent either switch or let Bulu get even more regan. Horn Leech is his primary Stab moving doing a fair amount of damage and adding even more recovery to hit kit. Then rock slide for generic double hit coverage. Leftovers to add even more recovery

Pelipper @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Hurricane
- Scald
- Wide Guard

Pelipper is here for his new ability: Drizzle. This allows him to set up rain for free having multipal benifits like prolonging grass types life boosting water allowing thunder to always hit and proccing swift swim. Hurricane is a Very powerful stab move that never misses do to the rain that pelipper itself sets up giving it a surprising amount of damage. Scald is another moves that can do a ton of damage in the rain and also packs a burn chance to lower attack or even just for chip damage. Wide guard gives much needed EQ protection for Tapu Koko and Alolan-Muk and rock slide protection for itself. I always like to try and fit one Z-move on my team as the mass damage and ability to hit threw protects is extremely nice.

Golduck @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 252 SpA / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Hydro Pump
- Psyshock
- Ice Beam

Swift Swim and Drizzle have some of the best synergy of any two abilities in the game allowing Golduck to outspeed the entire unboosted meta game with just 52 Spe EVs (and even if you run 0 the only thing it doesnt beat is Spe+ pheramosa) so it moves fast and hits hard with max SpA modest nature. The move set is probably the simplest on this team. Hydro pump does a lot of damage and even more under rain and STAB. I went for psyshock as this team felt a little heavy in special and more to hit normal defense never hurts. Ice beam hurts dragon types.

Muk-Alola @ Black Sludge
Ability: Power of Alchemy
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Shadow Sneak
- Poison Jab
- Knock Off

Alolan Muk adds even more bulk and a reliable physical attacker to the team, His new ability also works very well with most the rest of the team. Allowing him to pick up swift swim to help pelipper or can reset rain for Golduck or and take P2's download and maybe get a free +1. He runs a general Bulky damage EV spread with 12 Spe to allow him to outspeed neutral lilligant if he picks up swift swam (a bit situational but with very little opportunity cost it felt worth it.) shadow sneak give him a priority and while non-STAB it wont do to much, its good for finishing off focus sash pokemon). Poison Jab is a nice damaging stab move that I run over gunk shot because im pretty sure gunk shot has 10% acc. knock off for your other stab move and the utility of knocking off the other pokemons item (nothing feels as good as removing a P2's eviolite)

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 12 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Protect
- Trick Room
- Tri Attack
- Recover

Speaking of eviolite we got our own P2, this team doesn't benefit from trick room to much so this P2 is mostly used to counter an opposing pokemons trick room. Generic Bulk spread and eviolite, Just P2 things. This set packs Tri attack as its damage output doing a fair amount of damage and an even more fair amount of hax potential ;) after that we have recover to let this P2 stick around forever. Then after that we have Trick room, Which previously mentioned trick room itself doesnt help out team to much but having it on this team means we can reverse our opponents trick room if they choose to set it up.

(This is a lot of work to get to post in a RMT thread, Also while you're here could you purge my last RMT.)
 
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#19
Alrighty then! Let's expose the fraud in me! For this assignment, I took the team that tickled my fancy the hardest:

43rd. Matt Carter:

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 16 HP / 148 Def / 240 SpA / 104 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- HP Ice
- Protect
Pretty standard Koko set going on over here. The exception is running without Discharge, as there are no Lightning Rod users on the team. Skimped a little on the Speed in favor of not getting OHKO'd by things that aren't named "Alolan Marowak" or "Nihilego". The 16 HP / 148 Def spread was build primarily to withstand a Garchomp EQ/Poison Jab and be able to give back an HP Ice (hopefully) KO. But there are other situations in which TK appreciates the added bulk. Heavy Slam from Celesteela reliably does about 75%, and Smart Strike from Kartana gets knocked down to ~60%. With 104 Spe, he still outspeeds +0 max speed Garchomp, including Gengar. This
Alolan-Marowak, Nihilego, and Alolan-Muk are still problems, but just about everything else will have to double-up into it to prevent it from getting some serious damage off.


Ninetails-Alolan @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 20 HP / 236 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Freeze Dry
- Moonblast
- Blizzard
Ok. So this was an interesting mon to build. The reason? Aurora Veil.
I've had a few misconceptions about this move. They have been sufficiently busted. But I did find out Light Clay does work on it, something that was unclear to me before. And that rather than having it's own unique effect, it's just Light Screen and Reflect mashed together. Also, it doesn't end when hail does. Yup. Big ole' scrub, walking. Still a good move, and totally worth extending with Light Clay.
A hint of Four Moveslot Syndrome happening here. Ice Beam is always good. Single target, not weather dependent. Freeze Day hits Water types like Gyarados, Milotic, and Pelipper for super effective. Blizzard is a powerful spread move that doesn't check accuracy in the hail. And there's the Moonblast/Dazzling Gleam conundrum. I already have Dazzling Gleam on Koko, so I went with Moonblast. Freeze Dry for added coverage. Blizzard because I love not checking accuracy and crossing my fingers.
Now, this does have downside. Obviously, this is all very weather dependent. Hail MUST be up for Aurora Veil to function. So as soon as another weather setter drops in, ANT needs to switch out. And because of the 177 Spe, leading against other weather setters is a bit of a problem, as the slowest weather is the one that will stick. Pelipper, Torkoal, Gigalith, all weather setters that are unequivocally slower. So against opposing weather teams, she's either gonna have to stay behind, or let someone take the fall for her to get in on the weather war.
Alolan-Wak is still a problem. Gonna need to find a way to manage that soon. And Celesteela is still devestating, even with AV up.

Gyarados @ Waterium Z
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Ice Fang
- Taunt
- Protect
So we just looked at two pokemon who were dead af to Alolan Marowak. This guy may not be super interesting, but he is definitely an answer. Intimidate to drop that imposing Atk. Ice Fang to deal with Bulu and Dragons. And as much as I would love to have Taunt on a Prankster, having it here to shut down Tailwind and Trick Room setters adds to his utility. Considering a lot of Orangurus are using Sitrus Berry over Mental Herb, I think this is a safe bet. Waterfall has the potential to flinch hax, which is cool.
Gyarados pretty safely covers the weaknesses of both previous core members. Good typing synergy and an ability to either nerf or force out the physical attackers that put it's teammates on the defensive. With good switch-in timing, this gives you the power to keep important momentum rolling in your favor, and close out games quickly when needed.
As a bit of an aside, while I did wind up choosing Ice Fang for Bulu/Liligant/Dragon coverage and Taunt to maintain status quo on the battlefield, I would be interested in trying EQ on him. But at the time of writing this, it seems like an unnecessary hazard to my team when I can achieve similar results much more safely with this set. Perhaps my mind is in the wrong place while building this, which opens up a lot of questions. This is something I would love to talk about.


Porygon 2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 36 SpA / 68 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Tri Attack
- Shadow Ball
- Protect
Arguably as prominent as Oranguru for TR setting. Possibly the only other viable choice, but I'm not quite willing to argue that yet. This spread is pretty similar to the Common Showdown spread, but a few point have been stolen from Def and SpD to go into SpA. There wasn't a particular threat that this needed to happen for, but when looking at calcs, I noticed that a lot of TR tanks outspeed it by just ever-so-much, or out-tank it by the same margin. For this reason, I put a little more umpf behind Shadow Ball and Tri Attack in an attempt to make the back-and-forth more favorable for me.
Even though in TR it still goes after TorkGuru cores and Marowak, it has enough bulk to take a double eruption, and can hit MWak for 80% reliably. I'd also happily put this in against Tapu Bulu, who can threaten a lot of mons on this team, or Tapu Fini for a knockdown, drag-out tank duel.
Fishing for Tri-hax might feel cheap, but the potential is there, and a tool to use, so I don't see a reason not to use it. Especially when it comes with a decent 80 Base Power package.


Incineroar @ Darkium-Z
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 100 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
-Fake Out
-Flare Blitz
-Darkest Lariat
-Protect
Ok. This one was a little weird. I haven't seen or used or really heard anything about Incineroar in VGC so far. But here we are, and this is my best attempt.
A lot of builds I went out and looked at had 252 HP. But I did some calcs, and I came to the conclusion that a spread between HP and SpD would let it live the most things. This spread will take a Hydro Pump from Milotic, or a Waterfall from Gyarados without too much concern. The only way I was able to live a Hydro Pump from Tapu Fini every time was max SpD investment, and I didn't want to give up the ability to survive physical moves to accomplish that singular goal.
When first I made this, I completely forgot HA starters weren't a thing. So no Intimidate here. Blaze isn't great, it's only use here being a last-ditch boost to Flare Blitz. Fair enough I suppose if you pick up the KO and need to get a clean switchin for a teammate. Very situational; not much going on here.
Fake Out needs no introduction, I think, and that's something we don't have yet. Flare Blitz is the go-to physical Fire STAB move. Darkest Lariat is a move I had to brush up on. We don't have EQ spam, but we have this. The fact that it ignores stat changes is awesome, too.
I went back and forth with myself on which Z-crystal to use. And even considered Expert Belt (which I haven't 100% discounted yet). But in 90% of the calcs I ran BHE put out he most damage. Again, still uncertain about it, though. Being able to hit bulky Grass and Steel types is a priority, so I would've liked to test this before making a decision. Alas, I went for Darkium-Z.

Mudsdale @ Choice Band
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Atk / 124 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- High Horsepower
- Heavy Slam
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
This is damn near Wolfe Glick's spread for BandsDale, but I swapped the Atk and SpD EVs to net some guaranteed OHKOs, and can still survive a hit from Tapu Fini or Milotic Hydro Pump. As a quick aside, this might be the first Choice set I legit like. More fun then Scarf Landoge, for sure.
But seriously, this guy is a boss. The list of things he can tank and OHKO feels a mile long, and many of them are big threats in the meta. Torkoal, All the Tapus, Marowak, Arcanine after Intimidation, Nihilego, Celesteela, et al. Major offensive presence. Inside TR, Very few things outspeed it. Only two or three are of any real consequence. Changing the nature to Brave doesn't affect that in any meaningful way, moving him from 40 to 36 Spe. But it does give us just a tad more SpD for those Water and Ice type moves.
Outside of TR, we're relying on tankiness to get us through the day. Stamina ups the Def one stage every time a super effective move connects. Whether or not this is super relevant remains to be seen.
This set is essentially Spammable Goodstuff Coverage. Rock Slide is a good spread move to hit Fire or Flying type super effectively or fish for hax. Superpower has it's drawbacks on a choice set, but if you need to take care of the Muk or P2 in front of you, it can serve that purpose. Heavy Slam is super spammable. This is a heavy mon, and can get good damage off even when hitting neutral. And considering the prevalence of fairies right now, I'd say there's a safe bet something that doesn't resist it will pop up on the opposite side sooner rather than later. High Horsepower is a single-target, 95 Acc Ground move with a base power to match, and can wreck shop on anything that isn't a flyer.
The obvious drawback here does come from the choice item. Situations where you're forced to make a less than opportune switch because of it are not outside the realm of imagination. Assault Vest might let this pokemon play a little more of the long game, sacrificing some OHKOs to stay in longer, but I definitely see this as a TR mon, and as such, on the doesn't want to squander the 4 turns it has to get things done.
 
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#22
I choose to rebuild Lorenzo Catallozzi's team (21st) as it contained many mons I currently use in the format along with Silvally, an interesting piece of the puzzle.
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Tailwind
- Sky Drop - Taunt
- Wide Guard
I started with what I thought was the crux of this team, Aerodactyl. I started by first looking at what support options it could offer to this team. It has Tailwind for boosting the many mid-spe mons on this team to much higher speed tiers along with Wide Guard to help the three members suffering from a ground weakness around earthquakes. For offense I chose Rockslide as, having the move on a fast mon means you can always try and gain an advantage through flinches and even when it fails to flinch, STAB Rockslide coming off of a base 105 atk stat can do some hearty chip damage. For the last move, I opted for Sky Drop over Protect as Sky Drop allowed Aero to remove threats to 4 of its slower teammates for a turn allowing them to gain breathing room and avoid being ko'ed. Taunt is a better option for this team as being able to shut down tankier supportive mons gives me more options during the course of the battle.

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Atk / 4 Def / 100 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang
- Protect
Marowak's main job on any team is to just straight up hit stuff hard. This Marowak was given enought atk evs to always one-shot Celesteela as, it is one of two mons on the team capable of threatening the behemoth. The 12 spe invesment allows Marowak to outrun Gyarados under Tailwind so it can get a move off before being blown up by a STAB water move. The rest of the evs were dumped into bulk. Lightning Rod was the ability of choice on this team as it helped cover the two electric weaknesses. I feared this ability may clash with Tapu Koko, but, I found it highly unlikely that Koko would need to fire off an electric move with Marowak at its side.

Tapu Koko @ Fairium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Nature's Madness
- Protect
Fairium Z is a bit of an odd choice but, with 3 ground weaknesses, I didn't want Garchomp being able to just freely Earthquake. Fairium Z allows Koko to outrun and one-shot Garchomp without having to run Hp Ice and Life Orb(And even that only has a 37.5% chance of OHKOing). Thunderbolt is just good clean damage in my own terrain. As previously stated, I never found myself needing to launch a Tbolt with Marowak on the field as Nature's Madness + Marowak can take out a plethora of threats. Not only that but, With Fairium Z, Tapu Koko has a nuke that isnt hindered by both my own and opposing Marowak.

Metagross @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Hammer Arm
Metagross is a great steel type if you just want it to punch things. It can do serious damage to fairy types and Zen Headbutt is nothing to scoff at especially when it is boosted by Psychic Terrain. I opted for Assault Vest to be able to tank hits from mons like Arcanine. The 20spe is used to outrun Salazzle in Tailwind and OHKO it with Zen Heatbutt. I went with 2 basic STABs and a priority move to pick off weakened targets. Hammer Arm was the 4th move of choice as it can hit Porygon2 a bit harder that my STABs while also lowering spe as a bit of a soft counter to Trick Room.
252+ SpA Arcanine Burn Up vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Metagross: 150-176 (81 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Milotic @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 4 SpA / 116 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover
Milotic is a standard bulky water type with Recover and Toxic for stalling out late game. This spread does nothing specific it just gives Milotic great general bulk while still being able to deal damage thanks to its ability Competitive. Of course, with this team's ground weakness, Scald and Ice Beam are welcome as coverage moves. Milotic Benefits from Marowak's Lightning Rod greatly along with enjoying Marowak's ability to beat down grass types.

Silvally-Grass @ Grass Memory
Ability: RKS System
Level: 50
EVs: 180 HP / 100 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 220 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Multi-Attack
- Snarl
- Parting Shot
- Protect
This mon was the one leaving me most puzzled as I could not decide on a type until I saw this team's glaring Gastrodon weakness. Multi Attack always kills Gastrodon with the given atk investment, The spe lets Silvally get off either a Parting shot or Snarl against anything bar Alolan Raichu in Electric Terrain while under Tailwind. And speaking of those two moves, they really help with the longevity of this team specifically Metagross and Milotic, who can shrug off hits easily with the support Silvally provides.
 
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blarajan

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#23
RebornFX : I like the idea of Modest Koko on this team! I think you probably prefer Freeze Dry since you're relying a lot on Trick Room for your speed control and you have Dragon Dance Gyarados and Tapu Koko for fast options. I might consider Jolly Gyarados since you have Hail damage doing a lot of what the extra damage Gyarados is needing needs to do. It helps for your team to outrun some scary Pokemon such as opposing Tapu Koko. I would probably take After You off Oranguru.

bluecooljay14 : Notice the interaction between the Hail on your team from Ninetales and the Focus Sash on Kartana. Ben used Assault Vest Kartana so he didn't break his own Focus Sash with Hail, and so he could still live some of the attacks he wanted to be able to from Sash, such as Tapu Lele Psychic and LO Tapu Koko Thunderbolt. Maybe this is something to watch for? I don't think Life Orb Ninetales is necessarily the best way to go. It isn't actually all that strong still, and I think I would rather see Aurora Veil having more turns or Ninetales living another day. It's a really neat idea though. You did admit that Moonblast didn't hit that much that Ice didn't already. I don't think this is the best tech option, especially since Aurora Veil tends to be more important. I'm a big fan of Adrenaline Orb Milotic, but am not the most sure Blizzard is really necessary. I think Ice Beam is more reliable, especially when you consider how often Milotic is on the field when Hail is and how often that occurs when Adrenaline Orb is live.

ethan06 : I think it's a really neat build, but besides Quash from Sableye it just seems super reliant on Trick Room, with the Trick Room being fairly easy to stop. You end up having to lead Gengar + Porygon to get Trick Room up, and if they have for example, Fake Out/Taunt + Scarf Tapu Lele / Life Orb Tapu Koko it seems fairly easy to keep your team from working at all, especially with Modest Gengar. Tapu Lele seems particularly threatening because it blocks Quash. I'm not the most sure how I would resolve these problems within the build, but they're worth considering.

Vradek : I'm very unsure about a lot of your set choices. For example, Rindo Berry Gastrodon is still very, very killed by Tapu Bulu and Kartana even with Rindo Berry, and those are the only real users of Grass-coverage in the metagame. I think the offensive nature of your Gastrodon really limits some of the cool things it could be doing. I get that Gigalith doesn't really have that many effective items on it, but we tend to see Weakness Policy being used a lot. Why do you think that is? Gigalith does have Wide Guard which sees a lot of use as well. I'm just not that sure how much Earthquake offers you outside of admittedly Magnezone, which can be useful to hit. To patch that up though, maybe Flamethrower > Hydro Pump on Salamence? I really, really don't understand what Hydro Pump is offering in terms of additional coverage that Dragon Pulse does not already hit. Life Orb Tapu Bulu especially with Superpower sounds like it has to switch a lot, which is a bit difficult on your team. Finally, please note the interaction between Morning Sun on Arcanine and the Sandstream on Gigalith. Maybe you would benefit more from something else, such as Snarl?

charroshi : I think with the offensive pressure your team initially creates with Tapu Lele and Pheromosa, you might want to consider Encore on Ninetales to help punish a lot of Protects. I'm not the most sure about Z-Move Incineroar. I might consider using Assault Vest to help your team better switch into Sun, which is currently difficult, and using U-Turn over Protect. That forms an interesting combination with Ninetales and Pheromosa. You could even use Waterium Z Araquanid...Hydro Vortex hits extremely hard. You might want to consider Wide Guard > Poison Jab. Its non-Water attacks are extremely weak, let alone without Stab, and the rest of your team already does a very good job threatening Tapu Bulu.

redhatdude2 : I'm a little wary on your Tapu Bulu without Protect, especially since Rock Slide doesn't add much coverage that you wouldn't want to Leech Seed. Flyinium Z Pelipper is interesting, but there's a reason we tend to see more Focus Sash Pelipper and Waterium Golduck. Why do you think that is? Why might Golduck want to be able to get off Hydro Vortex? Also, what's Psyshock doing? I see that you're trying to use Power of Alchemy on Muk, but why? I see your justification, but do you think that's more reliable or effective than, say, Figy Berry + Gluttony, giving you reliable 50% recovery? Finally, Porygon2 having Protect is interesting and not necessarily wrong, but do you think that mono Tri Attack is the best coverage for this team, over maybe Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, or Thunderbolt?

ElementOfSmash : I see you're also using Moonblast Ninetales. Why? I know it's a STAB coverage, but what benefit does it have over Protect or Encore, for example? Do you worry about the Z-move conflict with Incineroar and Gyarados? Maybe a different move on Incineroar, such as Assault Vest? But then when doing so, maybe we want the Assault Vest on Mudsdale instead. I'm not too convinced by the effectiveness of Choice Band Mudsdale, especially as a Trick Room attacker. One of the most common ways of dealing with Trick Room, besides stopping it from going up, is switching around and dealing with Fake Out to stall turns with Protect. It seems to me that CB Mudsdale doesn't get much mileage out of abusing TR because it's easy to switch in on after you know it's CB and locked into an attack.

Solarman : I'm really interested by how you did this. I like your justification for Fairium Z on Tapu Koko. I'm worried by your problems dealing with Trick Room especially after it's set up. You might then consider Taunt on Tapu Koko to deal with that or on Aerodactyl in order to better deal with Trick Room, because it seems you really have no way to keep Shadow Ball Trick Room Porygon from having its way with this team. Toxic Milotic to help with the Gastrodon problem is quite smart. The Grass Silvally was a nice touch to deal with that, and honestly I don't know much about it to offer comments. But I liked the effort here!

Thanks everyone who has taken this thread seriously so far. I hope doing the exercise helped you think through VGC building and the interactions within your team. If you would like me to unlock your thread if it has been locked, or if you would like me to keep it locked and have you post a new one at a later time, let me know via PM.

<3
 
#24
blarajan Yeah, you're def right about Moonblast on Ninetails. My thought process was "hit things that resist Ice". But two of those things are Fire and Steel, so...it does seem kinda ill-thought out in retrospect. I'd replace it with Encore to punish mistimed protects here.
I'm not OVERLY worried about Z-move conflicts, but if I had to choose one, I'd keep Waterium-Z on Gyarados.
I'd rather have Assault Vest on Mudsdale. I'd change the spread to 252 HP / 172 Atk / 84 SpD for it.
Which means for Incineroar, if he needed a different item...maybe a Sitrus Berry for that added longevity? Or even an Aguav Berry? I just don't think I'm wrapping my head around him. I see the first three pokemon, and I think about building this team. All I can come up with it "This team is pretty weak to Steel mon like Kartana and Celesteela. I need a Fire mon." And I can kinda see why Fire/Dark seems attractive. You get to hit Oranguru and Tapu Lele. But...I feel like there's something else he can do for this team and I'm just missing it and/or going about the TR half of the team totally wrong.
 
#25
After playtesting for a bit more, I can agree and say taunt is a better option on Aerodactyl. It does help with the TR match-up but, I've found more utility from having the ability to shutdown support mons or a few turns than removing a threat for one with Sky Drop. And as for P2, Taunt helps alleviate that match up along with Toxic.