I've though about it. The only issue is, that would only work against extremely slow pokemon. Manectric is much better as a volt switch spammer, due to the fact it gets intimidate when it mega evolves. It's a possible option though
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Pokémon Manectric
- Thread starter Ash Borer
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Because the only things electroball out-damages thunderbolt on are things slower than 1/3 of m-manectric's speed, which makes it very unreliable
Ok, that makes sense, thanks!
Even though Mega-Manectric is a check to Mega-Pinsir, it isn't guaranteed. For instance, if you haven't evolved:
+1 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Manectric: 448-528 (159.4 - 187.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You Mega Evolve, but Mega Pinsir is as fast as Manectric, so it won't always win. Plus, if you switch into Earthquake, then you're dead. And if you choose to Volt Switch:
252 SpA Mega Manectric Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 258-306 (94.8 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
You have a high chance, but not 100%.
Besides:
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Manectric: 223-263 (79.3 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It can't even switch into it, as Quick Attack kills it after this, and with hazards:
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Manectric: 223-263 (79.3 - 93.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I'd say it is a shaky check, at best, as it is by no means a perfect check, and nowhere near a counter.
+1 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Manectric: 448-528 (159.4 - 187.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You Mega Evolve, but Mega Pinsir is as fast as Manectric, so it won't always win. Plus, if you switch into Earthquake, then you're dead. And if you choose to Volt Switch:
252 SpA Mega Manectric Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 258-306 (94.8 - 112.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
You have a high chance, but not 100%.
Besides:
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Manectric: 223-263 (79.3 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It can't even switch into it, as Quick Attack kills it after this, and with hazards:
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Manectric: 223-263 (79.3 - 93.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I'd say it is a shaky check, at best, as it is by no means a perfect check, and nowhere near a counter.
dialganet
Banned deucer.
Intimidate DD Gyarados. I run Mmanetric, Lando-T and DD Gyarados and the amount of set up opportunities Gyarados gets are just ridicolous. You can't cover his rock weakness with the other two, but Intimidate Lando-t is more than able than taking a hit. Lando and Mane just VoltTurn the hell out of the match until Gyara has a favorable match-up on paper, which will be enhanced by a -2atk on the target. Use them wisely and Gyara will have more than one chance to set up. If Manectric hasn't evolved yet you can even play mind games menacing a +1spatk on Mmane if you predict electric Attacks.
Just be aware of bulky ground types or water/ground types which kinda counter this strategy, but you have three more pokes to counter them. They need the least EHs possible too.
I tested deeply three kind of teams this far in XY (one built around a MpinsirTalon core, one around DDMegaTar and the aforementioned VoltTurnGyara) and I've found this strategy flat out unstoppable if played wisely.
Mega Manectric does outclass jolteon. He has a better movepool with more (although still limited) coverage, and he has better stats all across the board. Specs Jolteon does hit harder than Mega Manectric, but Jolteon is still slower and locked into a move with Specs. On taking up a mega evolution, Mega Manectric is often only used on Voltturn teams, where he and Landorus-T are the core of the team.
Mega Manectric faces a lot of competition in OU. Even aside from Rotom-W, Thundurus-I can serve similar roles with the added bonus of Ground-type immunity and Raikou and Zapdos are popular choices in the upper crust of the ladder. Jolteon isn't even worth using now that Thunder Wave is a non-issue to all Electric-types and the only common Pokemon that Jolteon out-speeds that Raikou doesn't are Greninja, Tornadus-T, Alakazam, and Talonflame (who almost always runs Adamant); Raikou's natural bulk making most of them non-issues anyway. Consider this a public service announcement: stop using Jolteon, people.
Mega Manectric's only true assets over Raikou or Thundurus-I are Intimidate and speed. Flamethrower isn't even that big deal as Mega Venusaur fears Raikou's Extrasensory or Thundurus's Hidden Power Flying far more than a Flamethrower and Ferrothorn is nowhere near as common as it was in Gen V. Most other common threats bar Excadrill are covered by Electric-STAB or Hidden Power Ice. Raikou brings natural bulk, longevity via Lefties, and even Calm Mind to the table while Thundurus brings Prankster support or Nasty Plot; neither one eats your Mega Pokemon slot.
Forming an Intimidate 'core' with Landorus-T is really the only reason to use Mega Manectric now that Lucarionite is banned but even then, Landorus-T deals with Physical Attackers extremely well by itself to the point that it doesn't need Mega Mane's help in the first place and would rather have a special wall like specially-defensive Zapdos as a VoltTurn partner. I wouldn't say that Mega Manectric is out-classed but the cost for using it is far too high for what little it has over Raikou and Thundurus-I.
Also Raikou can get back up if you tip it onto its side, Mega Mane's down the count if it falls over. Life Alert support is required to run it.
Mega Manectric's only true assets over Raikou or Thundurus-I are Intimidate and speed. Flamethrower isn't even that big deal as Mega Venusaur fears Raikou's Extrasensory or Thundurus's Hidden Power Flying far more than a Flamethrower and Ferrothorn is nowhere near as common as it was in Gen V. Most other common threats bar Excadrill are covered by Electric-STAB or Hidden Power Ice. Raikou brings natural bulk, longevity via Lefties, and even Calm Mind to the table while Thundurus brings Prankster support or Nasty Plot; neither one eats your Mega Pokemon slot.
Forming an Intimidate 'core' with Landorus-T is really the only reason to use Mega Manectric now that Lucarionite is banned but even then, Landorus-T deals with Physical Attackers extremely well by itself to the point that it doesn't need Mega Mane's help in the first place and would rather have a special wall like specially-defensive Zapdos as a VoltTurn partner. I wouldn't say that Mega Manectric is out-classed but the cost for using it is far too high for what little it has over Raikou and Thundurus-I.
Also Raikou can get back up if you tip it onto its side, Mega Mane's down the count if it falls over. Life Alert support is required to run it.
Raikou has absolutely no way to get past Excadrill unless it runs Aura Sphere, however it has to be Rash natured to do that, giving it a pretty dismal speed tier. Excadrill is a very common ground type, easily getting past it is a huge strength that Manectric has over other electric types like Raikou. Fire is really good coverage, Raikou has to choose between speed and coverage.
Zapdos, Thundrus and mega manectric are completely different. The only thing they have in common is electric typing.
Mega Manectric and Raikou are two different pokemon, each with their own pros and cons.
Mega Manectric has become my favourite mega. He has outstanding coverage and is faster than pretty much anything non-scarfed, he has proven to be extremely reliable to me.
Well since we're here again, I definitely have a clearer outlook on how Raikou and Mega-mane differ as I've been laddering with Raikou for nearing a month now after doing about the same with Mega Mane before the Mega Lucario ban.
Mega Mane has the benefit of a stronger Psuedo-BoltBeam should Raikou not run Life Orb, Flamethrower to hit Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Mega Mawile harder than Raikou can manage (Mega Mane triggers Bisharp's Defiant so I'm discrediting Flamethrower's benefit against it), and Intimidate to switch-in safer.
Raikou on the other hand is notably bulkier, has immediate Speed, Dual Screens and other support, and has the option to run Air Balloon to get free switches and force key Pokemon like Sub Garchomp and Scarf Excadrill to lock themselves into a non-Ground-type move that A. doesn't OHKO Raikou and B. can be taken advantage of by teammates should Raikou want to keep its balloon.
Those two have a serious Chansey vs Blissey thing going but their main difference is Flamethrower and Intimidate vs a useful item slot and not burning a mega slot.
But at their core; they are both fast, bulky, pure-electric, volt switching, ice-flinging assholes that are FAR too underused in a metagame that is tailor-made for them to dominate. If you run Jolteon, you are part of the problem. Get a real electric quadruped.
Mega Mane has the benefit of a stronger Psuedo-BoltBeam should Raikou not run Life Orb, Flamethrower to hit Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Mega Mawile harder than Raikou can manage (Mega Mane triggers Bisharp's Defiant so I'm discrediting Flamethrower's benefit against it), and Intimidate to switch-in safer.
Raikou on the other hand is notably bulkier, has immediate Speed, Dual Screens and other support, and has the option to run Air Balloon to get free switches and force key Pokemon like Sub Garchomp and Scarf Excadrill to lock themselves into a non-Ground-type move that A. doesn't OHKO Raikou and B. can be taken advantage of by teammates should Raikou want to keep its balloon.
Those two have a serious Chansey vs Blissey thing going but their main difference is Flamethrower and Intimidate vs a useful item slot and not burning a mega slot.
But at their core; they are both fast, bulky, pure-electric, volt switching, ice-flinging assholes that are FAR too underused in a metagame that is tailor-made for them to dominate. If you run Jolteon, you are part of the problem. Get a real electric quadruped.
Honestly it comes down to preference and what your teams needs I personally run the dual volt turn intimidate core with lando t but also raikou has it's niche in ou as being a great sub calm minder(not sure if people still use that) but both are good pokemon but as stated before they serve different roles on teams
I completely disagree with you. Jolteon is an excellent pokemon. Why care more about bulk than speed when we're talking about a pokemon who's role is to hit fast and flee?
Lets compare stats shall we?
Raikou has a lot more bulk, especially when it comes to hp. He can take more physical hits than Jolteon. That much is true. When it comes to spdef, Raikou's is SLIGHTLY higher, but not really too much, again the HP is what makes the difference here.
When it comes to spatk, Raikou has a TINY bit more than Jolteon. Ok so far so good. But here's the thing, Jolteon has that outstanding 130 base speed.
That, and just that, seals the deal.
Jolteon can outspeed almost ANYTHING. And that includes two very important pokemon that Raikou does not outspeed: Starmie and Greninja. He also outspeeds Noivern, jolly talonflame (if that's a thing), Alakazam and Weavile, among others.
The ability to outspeed Greninja is the most important in my opinion.
I'm not saying Jolteon is the only viable option, cause it's not, Raikou has other traits that can make you decide whether to pick him or not. But to say people should stop using Jolteon, is plain dumb in my humble opinion.
Raikou speed ties with Starmie, and both Greninja and Starmie do not possess the firepower to down a healthy Raikou unless maybe when wearing Choice Specs, while Raikou effortlessly decimates both in a 1v1 scenario. The only thing that Raikou shouldn't be staying in that it can't outspeed is the mostly irrelevant Weavile.
Outspeeding means jack if you cant even kill the things you're supposed to kill. Also, the shift to a more bulkier, slower meta made Jolteon's speed more irrelevant than it was last gen.
Jolteon's main role should be scouting and revenge killing. Being one of the fastest pokes in the game is, and always will make it a great asset.
I use Greninja often in my teams, and I like to lead with him to scout (I use a mixed attacker set I made), and when I find myself against a Raikou lead it's all good since an U-Turn will do around 50%. You don't have to rely on OHKOing everything in this game. Being faster enables you to take down worn down pokes. I always thought about the fact that if it were Jolteon instead of Raikou in that situation, I would be pretty screwed. If you want to take Jolteon down, you are going to most certainly have to take a hit (or more likely a couple of them).
Pure 1 vs 1 scenarios are pretty much irrelevant.
Everything you said about scouting and revenge killing is pretty much applicable to Raikou and Meganectric, with the exception of handling Greninja. If you're prepared to sacrifice better coverage and bulk in order to handle Greninja a lil' bit better, then be my guest.
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 177-209 (65 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Jolteon really needs either Specs or LO to put a dent in things. Specs-locking can be really detrimental every time you use a move other than Volt Switch, and LO + SR can easily wear you down to the point where you are KO'd by Banded Talonflame, as well as most neutral hits from anything and everything in OU. Jolteon's lack of bulk should never be overlooked in a metagame so full of powerful physical priority.
and you're most likely going to be scaring out Greninja at best.
hell, just use Greninja if you want a fast special attacker with good coverage
anything but jolteon
Jolteon really needs either Specs or LO to put a dent in things. Specs-locking can be really detrimental every time you use a move other than Volt Switch, and LO + SR can easily wear you down to the point where you are KO'd by Banded Talonflame, as well as most neutral hits from anything and everything in OU. Jolteon's lack of bulk should never be overlooked in a metagame so full of powerful physical priority.
and you're most likely going to be scaring out Greninja at best.
hell, just use Greninja if you want a fast special attacker with good coverage
anything but jolteon
That's the point, using it on UU
that post was months ago -.- yeah Manectric has a pretty nice job in OU thanks to Intimidate + Fire coverage, I was mistaken earlier
Blissey is UU now, thus, such argument is valid. Also, Manectric is OU now, so Blissey is not worth his time :P
Why is there no mention about Flamethrower? Or Fire Blast?
Because it only gets Flamethrower and Overheat; both of which vital staples on Man's pivot set. And with the bleak course of OP updates, it's common for a set to be considered standard and not found on the front page of this thread. You're free to check the C+C for a more manicured article.
If we didn't run fire coverage on Man, we'd basically be stuck with Snarl, and that's just sad.
I could see a niche for Snarl if the opponent's packing Pokemon that are Specially Oriented both ways (Like Goodra or the Latis) or run Mixed sets (like Kyurem-B or Aegislash). Snarl's drop could open up a bit more freedom for switch-ins, as the Sp. Attack drop makes it easier to bring in a Physical Wall like Skarmory, or at least takes pressure off the Special (or occasional Mixed) Tank switching in like Hippowdon or Chansey. Not to mention, if it's a Pokemon who's power is good, but not great, like Greninja, Heatran, or Rotom-W, it can turn them into Set-Up fodder for decently bulky team members and force them to go back out, making it easier to grab Momentum with Volt Switch.
And while the damage isn't anything to write home about, it is something to add to the cons if switching in a Psychic or Ghost type. Again, his other moves probably hit harder, but it can't be that much less usable than Keldeo running Icy Wind in a free Attacking moveslot.
I doubt the move would be a mainstay, but if Manectric's mainly being used to pivot rather than sweep anyway, it might be a nice niche option to help open up a few more switch-ins should he forgo Thunderbolt. A moveset like
-Volt Switch
-Flamethrower/Overheat
-HP (Ice)
-Snarl
Why on Earth does this thing not get Fire Blast if it gets both Flamethrower AND Overheat?
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