1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Mantine [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Django, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. Django

    Django
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,818
    [​IMG]
    Mantine

    [Overview]

    <p>With Mantine finally getting access to a useful Flying-type STAB move that isn't Hidden Power Flying, it has established a very solid niche for itself in the NU metagame. STAB-boosted Air Slash allows it to break through Grass-types such as Roselia and effectively dispatch Ludicolo, achievements not many other rain sweepers can boast. This position as one of the best Ludicolo counters also makes it a solid option to combat opposing rain teams. Two useful abilities allow it to compete in both offensive and defensive roles, with Swift Swim giving it the speed to take out many threats while Water Absorb allows it to wall and defeat rain sweepers and other Water-types.</p>

    [SET]
    name: MANtine (Rain Dance)
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Air Slash
    move 4: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Electric

    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim

    nature: Modest
    evs: 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>As one can imagine, the ability to beat the usual counters to rain sweepers makes Mantine a great sweeper itself as well as a fantastic choice for a dedicated rain team. Almost every bulky Grass-type will be broken down by STAB Air Slash, which means other Pokemon that benefit from rain can sweep later in the match. Even as a standalone sweeper, the coverage offered by STAB Water- and Flying-type moves is fantastic, although Mantine does face competition from the more powerful but slower (in rain) Swanna. A fantastic Special Defense stat and decent HP also mean Mantine often has an easier time setting up than other rain sweepers, but the unfortunate trade-off is that Mantine is slightly weaker. A weakness to Stealth Rock means that it can also be worn down and revenge killed with priority moves, particularly with Life Orb recoil also taking its toll. Hydro Pump should be used over Surf as Mantine has a relatively low Special Attack stat and it really appreciates the extra Base Power. Air Slash is essential to hit Ludicolo and Roselia, not to mention other troublesome Pokemon like Water Absorb Cacturne. Ice Beam will rarely be used, but it will do significantly more damage against Altaria and other Dragon-types, so it is still occaisionally useful. Alternatively, Hidden Power Electric can be used to beat other Mantine, as well as allowing Mantine to easily check Gorebyss.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The chosen EV spread allows Mantine to outrun Choice Scarf Rotom-S and Rotom-F while it's raining. There is no need to run any more Speed than this, as no significant Pokemon will be outsped and Modest is completely necessary due to Mantine's low Special Attack. Damp Rock is certainly an option for the item slot, increasing the turns of rain and thus turning Mantine into a more support-based rain Pokemon, rather than one focused on wallbreaking and sweeping. The power granted by Life Orb will certainly be missed, however, so bear that in mind if considering using Damp Rock.</p>

    <p>The natural place for this set is on a rain team, and as such, Ludicolo, Seismitoad, and Gorebyss all make fantastic partners as they can wear down each other's checks and counters, particularly opposing Ludicolo, Roselia, and other bulky Grass-types. It should be noted that it is not necessary to use all four on the same team, however. Dedicated special walls such as Lickilicky and Audino still wall Mantine, so powerful Fighting-types are great choices for teammates. Sawk in particular will dispose of them easily, as will Gurdurr. Alternatively, Golurk is immune to most things those walls can do, while sharing fantastic synergy with Mantine.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Scald
    move 4: Air Slash

    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Bold

    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Mantine already has an excessive amount of special bulk, so it can easily run a set focusing on patching up its physical bulk in order to take advantage of its interesting typing and check the likes of Golurk, Sawk, and Piloswine, while also being a great counter to Gurdurr. It remains a great answer to Ludicolo and other rain sweepers, particularly with Water Absorb. Unfortunately, the only recovery Mantine has is RestTalk, but it is just bulky enough to use it without ending up a sitting duck. This lack of recovery can still hurt, however, considering Mantine is weak to Stealth Rock, but it can still be used. Scald is a fantastic move for a defensive Pokemon and means that very few Pokemon are 100% safe switching into Mantine, always fearing that potentially game changing burn. Air Slash hits Roselia and Cacturne, and being able to beat both while also absorbing sleep is a massive boon for Mantine.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Defense is used to allow Mantine to effectively beat Fighting- and Ground-types, while the odd HP number is used to minimize the damage taken from Stealth Rock. It is also viable to use a specially defensive spread, which lets Mantine take on pretty much every special attacker without an Electric-type move, but such a spread loses out on the ability to counter many of the threats mentioned earlier, such as Gurdurr, Piloswine, and Golurk. Water Absorb is fantastic for beating dedicated rain sweepers, and the extra recovery can really help, particularly if Stealth Rock is on the field. Toxic is always an option, but Mantine really doesn't want to give up Scald or Air Slash and appreciates the utility both Rest and Sleep Talk provide. Replacing Sleep Talk can leave it a sitting duck occasionally, while without Rest, Mantine becomes very easy to wear down.</p>

    <p>Despite having Rest and Sleep Talk, Mantine still greatly appreciates support from a Wish passer, and, perhaps even more, from a cleric. Heal Bell can wake Mantine up from sleep, meaning it can come in and do its job multiple times. Lickilicky in particular carries Wish and Heal Bell while taking on special attackers with ease, and it also appreciates Mantine's ability to beat Fighting-types. Mantine is very easy prey for Volt Switch users, as they can easily force Mantine out and grab momentum. Naturally, Ground-types are excellent partners, particularly Golem and Golurk. Both of these Pokemon can set up Stealth Rock while simultaneously putting pressure back on the opponent, as well as having excellent synergy with Mantine. Piloswine can make another fantastic partner.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Mantine gets a few other interesting moves, but struggles to fit them onto a moveset. Mirror Coat and Haze would probably both get a lot of useif Mantine had reliable recovery outside of Rest to use them with. Protect is also a great move for scouting Choice Volt Switch users, but it can be hard to fit onto a moveset. Even Tailwind could be useful for supporting teammates without Swift Swim that still want the Speed boost, but it is hard to pull off and situational. While Mantin's movepool is large, lots of it is unfortunately useless due to its terrible base 40 Attack.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Mantine actually does a decent job beating itself, as defensive sets can take on most Rain Dance sets with ease, while forcing a stalemate against themselves. Dedicated special walls such as Lickilicky and Audino also wall the offensive sets. Storm Drain Cradily can pull off a similar trick and threaten Mantine with STAB Rock-type moves. A great way to beat Mantine is to exploit its vulnerability to Electric-types; Rotom-S, Rotom-F, Electabuzz, Ampharos, and almost all other Electric-types do a great job in this regard. Samurott and Gorebyss carrying Hidden Power Electric can also quickly dispatch of Mantine. Lapras is a fine alternative option to deal with Mantine, packing Water Absorb of its own to combat the Rain Dance set's boosted STAB Water-type moves, and being able to respond with Thunderbolt. Gardevoir makes a great check by tracing either Water Absorb or Swift Swim, then outspeeding and OHKOing Mantine with Thunderbolt.</p>


    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    • MANtine gets a lot more love now it has Air Slash
    • As a Rain Sweeper it gets a particular niche as it can easily beat Amoonguss.
    • Also good at beating Rain teams, one of the best Ludicolo counters.
    • Can go either offensive or defensive with Swift Swim or Water Absorb respectively.
    • Also makes a decent answer to Hail with its huge Special bulk and Rain Dance.
    [SET]
    name: MANtine (this can be Offensive Rain Dance if you guys feel like being boring...)
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Air Slash
    move 4: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Electric
    evs: 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
    nature: Modest
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim


    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Excellent sweeper, particularly on dedicated rain teams.
    • Can break down almost any bulky grass-type with Air Slash, means the rest of the team can sweep later on.
    • Water Flying coverage is also amazing, but Mantine does face competition from Swanna.
    • Also has an easier time setting up than other rain sweepers, but sadly is a bit weaker.
    • Great against Hail teams once Snover has gone down.
    • Can be easily revenged with Life Orb and Stealth Rock recoil taking its toll.
    • Hydro Pump used over Surf since it needs all the power it can get
    • Air Slash hits Amoonguss and Ludicolo, nt to mention potentially troublesome Pokemon like Water Absorb Cacturne.
    • Ice Beam won't see much use, but will KO Altaria.
    • HP Electric is for other Mantine, as well as allowing you to check Gorebyss.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • EVs let it outrun scarf Rotom-S and Rotom-F in rain. Not much point running any more speed, and you need Modest for power due to its relatively low base SpA.
    • Can use Damp Rock to increase rain turns and support the team better, but really misses the power granted by LO.
    • Surf can be used over Hydro Pump, but it's weak.
    • Ludicolo, Seismitoad, Gorebyss all make great partners as they wear down each others checks and counters (Amoonguss, other Ludicolo). Not necessary to use all 4 on the same team.
    • Still walled by dedicated Special walls like Lickilicky, so powerful Fighting-types are a great help. Sawk in particular is amazing, so is Gurdurr, and Golurk has great synergy with Mantine.
    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Scald
    move 4: Air Slash
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    nature: Bold
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb


    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Already has massive Special bulk, this lets Mantine take advantage of its cool typing to check the likes of Golurk and Piloswine, and counter stuff like Gurdurr. Can also check Sawk and Emboar.
    • Still a great answer to Ludicolo at the same time.
    • Only recovery it gets is RestTalk, oh well. Its bulky enough to actually use it
    • Being SR weak is annoying, but it can work around it.
    • Scald is always good for defensive Pokemon, means nothing bar Floatzel is really safe switching in.
    • Air Slash hits Amoonguss and Ludicolo, being able to beat both of these Pokemon is such a massive boon
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Max Defense with an odd HP number for less SR damage. Easy stuff.
    • A Specially Defensive spread is usable, and lets Mantine take on every special attacker without Electric moves, but loses the ability to beat Gurdurr, Piloswine, Golurk etc.
    • Water Absorb is great for beating Rain sweepers, and the extra recovery can really help.
    • Toxic could be used, but Mantine generally does not want to go without either Scald or Air Slash, and replacing Sleep Talk can leave it as a sitting duck.
    • Despite having resttalk, appreciates Wish support, and particularly Heal Bell for curing Sleep. Lickilicky can do this well and take on Special Attackers with ease.
    • Is also easy prey for Volt Switch users to gain momentum, so Ground-types are excellent partners. Golem and Golurk are great, can set up SR and put pressure back on the opponent, while also having excellent synergy with Mantine. Piloswine is also an excellent partner
    [Other Options]

    • Mirror Coat and Haze are both interesting options, but Mantine wishes it had recovery outside of Rest to use them with.
    • Protect is always fun, but hard to fit on a moveset.
    • Tailwind is a fun move, could be useful for teammates without Swift Swim who want a Speed boost. hard to pull off though.
    • Big movepool, lots of unusable moves due to 40 base Attack.
    [Checks and Counters]

    • Mantine does a good job beating itself, defensive set takes on Rain Dance with ease while defensive vs defensive is just a stalemate.
    • Lickilicky, Audino also hard wall it.
    • Look to exploit its Electric weakness; Rotom-S, Rotom-F, Electabuzz, Ampharos
    • Regice does a great job with Thunderbolt and excellent special bulk.
    • Cradily.
    • HP Elec Samurott / Gorebyss.
    • Lapras
    • Gardevoir can trace either Water Absorb or Swift Swim, and OHKO with Thunderbolt.
  2. Sweet Jesus

    Sweet Jesus Neal and Jack and me, absent lovers...

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    516
    mention MANtine's defence is pretty bad so it's easy to revenge kill with priority when added up to SR and LO damage. water and fighting resist helps but you aren't OHKO'ing most water types anyway.

    In checkers and counters you can add sp.d cradily since it doesn't take too much from ice beam (ice and crit hax are still pretty important since you'll be recovering twice before sending in an attack). Those using a rain team that feel weak to mantine can replace hp grass for hp elecritc on samurott and gorebyss since ludi already brings the grass coverage.

    Maybe make it a little more clear that water flying coverage wrecks and that MANtine faces competition with the slower and more powerful swanna as a rain sweeper.

    Once that is done, I'd see this as good to go, I believe I'm allowed to do this so here's my very first QC approval :)

    [​IMG]
    QC Approved 1/3
  3. DTC

    DTC ˢᵉʳᶦᵒᵘˢ
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,704
    Mention Protect in OO. It's a pretty cool move option to use if you want to use Haze or some other move like Toxic. I'd even consider moving both Haze and Protect to AC.

    [qc]2/3[/qc]
  4. Django

    Django
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,818
    Sticking with Haze and Protect in OO for now, if some more people want then I can move them to AC but eh, its not a huge deal. Otherwise thanks for the checks, and congrats to Sweet Jesus for QC!
  5. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,080
    Where is MMF when you need him?

    • Mention that the physically defensive set can check Emboar, but has to watch out for Head Smash and Wild Charge.
    • Add that Air Slash on Mantine also hits Water Absorb Cacturne and prevents it from setting up Swords Dances in Mantine's face
    • Add Piloswine to the list of Ground-type partners for Mantine as with Thick Fat it can handle Rotom-F unlike the others

    [QC]3/3[/QC]
  6. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,654
    Lapras for c&c please, it walls it better than other Mantine. Gardevoir can tbolt it and survive a hit, any water type with Toxic can do a number on it, Ampharos can switch in and win if its specially defensive. Even if its not it can switch in on rain dance.
  7. Django

    Django
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,818
    k thanks guys, I'll write this up soon.
  8. Django

    Django
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,818
    Apologies for the delay but this is now written
  9. Espeon7373

    Espeon7373

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    Messages:
    25
    Grammar check

    I'm a grammar nazi, so...here's a grammar check.
    Red=deleted
    Blue=added
    Purple=spelling correction
    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>With Mantine finally getting access to a useful Flying-type STAB move that isn't Hidden Power Flying, it has established a very solid niche for itself in the NU metagame. STAB-boosted Air Slash allows it to break through Grass-types such as Roselia, as well as effectively dispatching of Ludicolo, which are things achievements that not many other rain sweepers can boast. This position as one of the best Ludicolo counters also makes it a solid option to combat opposing rain teams. Two useful abilities allow it to complete both the offensive and defensive roles, with Swift Swim essential for the offensive while Water Absorb is fantastic for beating rain sweepers and other Water-types.</p>

    [SET]
    name: MANtine
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Air Slash
    move 4: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Electric
    evs: 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
    nature: Modest
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>As one can imagine, the ability to beat the usual counters to rain abusers makes Mantine a great sweeper, as well as a fantastic choice for a dedicated rain team. Almost every bulky Grass-type will be broken down by STAB Air Slash, which means other Pokemon which that benefit from rain can sweep later in the match. Even as a standalone sweeper, the coverage offered by STAB Water- and Flying-type moves is fantastic, although Mantine does face competition from the more powerful but slower (in rain) Swanna. A fantastic Special Defense stat and decent HP also means Mantine can have an easier time setting up than other rain sweepers, but the unfortunate tradeoff is that sadly Mantine is slightly weaker. A weakness to Stealth Rock means that it can also be worn down and revenge killed with priority moves, particularly with Life Orb recoil involved. Hydro Pump should be used over Surf as Mantine has a relatively low Special Attack stat, and it really appreciates the extra base power. Air Slash is essential to hit Ludicolo and Roselia, not to mention other troublesome Pokemon like Water Absorb Cacturne. Ice Beam will rarely be used, but it will do significantly more damage against Altaria and other Dragon-types, so it is still usable. Alternatively, Hidden Power Electric can be used to beat other Mantine, as well as allowing Mantine to easily check Gorebyss.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The chosen EV spread allows Mantine to outrun Choice Scarf Rotom-S and Rotom-F while Rain is up. There is no need to run any more Speed than this, as no significant Pokemon will be outsped, and Modest is completely necessary due to the low Special Attack. Damp Rock is certainly an option for the item slot, increasing the turns of rain and thus turning Mantine into a more support based Rain Pokemon, rather than focusing on wallbreaking and sweeping. The power granted by Life Orb will certainly be missed, so bear that in mind if using Damp Rock. As always, Surf is an option instead of Hydro Pump purely for accuracy's sake, but the significant power drop, particularly when the boost from rain is applied, is very noticeable.</p>

    <p>The natural place for this set is on a rain team, and as such Ludicolo, Seismitoed and Gorebyss all make fantastic partners as they can all wear down each other's checks and counters, particularly opposing Ludicolo, Roselia, and other bulky Grass-types. It should be noted that it is not necessary to use all four on the same team, however. Dedicated special walls such as Lickilicky or Audino will still wall Mantine, so powerful Fighting-types are great choices for teammates. Sawk in particular will dispatch dispose of them easily, as will Gurdurr. Alternatively, Golurk is immune to most things those walls can do, while sharing fantastic synergy with Mantine.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Scald
    move 4: Air Slash
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
    nature: Bold
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Mantine already has an excessive amount of Special bulk, so it can easily run a set utilising Physical bulk in order to take advantage of its interesting typing and check the likes of Golurk, Sawk, and Piloswine, as well as being a great counter to Gurdurr. It will still remain as a great answer to Ludicolo, and other rain sweepers, particularly with Water Absorb. Unfortunately the only recovery Mantine has is Rest and Sleep Talk, but it is just about bulky enough to use it without ending up as a sitting duck. This lack of recovery can particularly hurt considering Mantine is weak to Stealth Rock, but it can still be played around used. Scald is a fantastic move for a defensive Pokemon, and means that very few Pokemon are 100% safe switching into Mantine, always fearing that potentially game-changing burn. Air Slash hits Roselia and Amoonguss, and being able to beat both of these Pokemon simultaneously, while also absorbing Sleep, is a massive boon for Mantine</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Defense is used to allow Mantine to effectively beat Fighting- and Ground-types, while the odd HP number is used to minimize the damage taken from Stealth Rock. It is also viable to use a Specially Defensive spread, which lets Mantine take on every Special attacker without an Electric-type move, but it loses out on the ability to counter the aforementioned threats, such as Gurdurr, Piloswine, and Golurk. Water Absorb is fantastic for beating dedicated rain sweepers, and the extra recovery can really help, particularly if Stealth Rock is on the field. Toxic is always an option, but Mantine really doesn't want to give up Scald or Air Slash. Replacing Sleep Talk can leave it as a sitting duck occasionally, while without Rest Mantine becomes very easy to wear down.</p>

    <p>Despite having Rest and Sleep Talk, Mantine still greatly appreciates Wish support, and perhaps even more so support from a cleric. Heal Bell can wake Mantine up from Sleep, meaning it can come in and do its job multiple times. Lickilicky in particular carries Wish and Heal Bell, while taking on Special attackers with ease, and it also appreciates Mantine's ability to beat Fighting-types. Mantine is very easy prey for Volt Switch users, as they can easily force Mantine out and grab momentum. Naturally, Ground-types are excellent partners, particularly Golem and Golurk. Both of these Pokemon can set up Stealth Rock while simultaneously putting pressure back on the opponent, as well as having excellent synergy with Mantine. Piloswine can make another fantastic partner.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Mantine gets a few other interesting moves, but struggles to fit them onto a moveset. Mirror Coat and Haze would both get a lot of use, but Mantine really wishes it had reliable recovery outside of Rest to use them with. Protect is also a great move for scouting Choiced Volt Switch users, but it can be hard to switch onto a moveset. Even Tailwind could be useful for supporting teammates without Swift Swim but that still want the Speed boost, but it is hard to pull off and situational. Despite having a big movepool, lots of it is unfortunately useless due to the terrible base 40 Attack.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Mantine actually does a decent job beating itself, as defensive sets can take on most Rain Dance sets with ease, while the defensive set will just force a stalemate against itself. Dedicated Special walls such as Lickilicky and Audino also hard wall the offensive sets. Storm Drain Cradily can pull off a similar trick, and threaten Mantine with STAB Rock-type moves. A great way to beat Mantine is to exploit its vulnerability to Electric-types; Rotom-S, Rotom-F, Electabuzz, Ampharos and almost any other Electric-types do a great job in this regard. Samurott and Gorebyss carrying Hidden Power Electric must also be looked out for, as they will quickly dispatch of Mantine. Lapras is a fine alternative option to deal with Mantine, packing Water Absorb of its own to combat the boosted STAB Water moves. Gardevoir makes a great check by tracing either Water Absorb or Swift Swim, then outspeeding and OHKO-ing Mantine with Thunderbolt.</p>
  10. Django

    Django
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,818
    Added in those changes, thanks a lot
  11. Oglemi

    Oglemi Working hard
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,044
    add
    remove
    comments

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>With Mantine finally getting access to a useful Flying-type STAB move that isn't Hidden Power Flying, it has established a very solid niche for itself in the NU metagame. STAB-boosted Air Slash allows it to break through Grass-types such as Roselia, as well as effectively dispatch Ludicolo, which are achievements not many other rain sweepers can boast. This position as one of the best Ludicolo counters also makes it a solid option to combat opposing rain teams. Two useful abilities allow it to compete in both the offensive and defensive roles, with Swift Swim essential for the offensive while Water Absorb is fantastic for beating rain sweepers and other Water-types.</p>

    [SET]
    name: MANtine (Rain Dance)
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Air Slash
    move 4: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Electric
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>As one can imagine, the ability to beat the usual counters to rain sweepers makes Mantine a great sweeper itself, as well as a fantastic choice for a dedicated rain team. Almost every bulky Grass-type will be broken down by STAB Air Slash, which means other Pokemon that benefit from rain can sweep later in the match. Even as a standalone sweeper, the coverage offered by STAB Water- and Flying-type moves is fantastic, although Mantine does face competition from the more powerful but slower (in rain) Swanna. A fantastic Special Defense stat and decent HP also means Mantine can have an easier time setting up than other rain sweepers, but the unfortunate trade-off is that Mantine is slightly weaker. A weakness to Stealth Rock means that it can also be worn down and revenge killed with priority moves, particularly with Life Orb recoil involved. Hydro Pump should be used over Surf as Mantine has a relatively low Special Attack stat, and it really appreciates the extra Base Power. Air Slash is essential to hit Ludicolo and Roselia, not to mention other troublesome Pokemon like Water Absorb Cacturne. Ice Beam will rarely be used, but it will do significantly more damage against Altaria and other Dragon-types, so it is still usable. Alternatively, Hidden Power Electric can be used to beat other Mantine, as well as allowing Mantine to easily check Gorebyss.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The chosen EV spread allows Mantine to outrun Choice Scarf Rotom-S and Rotom-F while it's raining. There is no need to run any more Speed than this, as no significant Pokemon will be outsped, and Modest is completely necessary due to the low Special Attack. Damp Rock is certainly an option for the item slot, increasing the turns of rain and thus turning Mantine into a more support-based rain Pokemon, rather than focusing on wallbreaking and sweeping. The power granted by Life Orb will certainly be missed, so bear that in mind if using Damp Rock. As always, Surf is an option instead of Hydro Pump purely for accuracy's sake, but the significant power drop, particularly when the boost from rain is applied, is very noticeable.</p>

    <p>The natural place for this set is on a rain team, and as such, Ludicolo, Seismitoad, and Gorebyss all make fantastic partners as they can wear down each other's checks and counters, particularly opposing Ludicolo, Roselia, and other bulky Grass-types. It should be noted that it is not necessary to use all four on the same team, however. Dedicated special walls such as Lickilicky or Audino will still wall Mantine, so powerful Fighting-types are great choices for teammates. Sawk in particular will dispose of them easily, as will Gurdurr. Alternatively, Golurk is immune to most things those walls can do, while sharing fantastic synergy with Mantine.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Scald
    move 4: Air Slash
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD


    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Mantine already has an excessive amount of special bulk, so it can easily run a set utilizing physical bulk in order to take advantage of its interesting typing and check the likes of Golurk, Sawk, and Piloswine, as well as being a great counter to Gurdurr. It will still remain as a great answer to Ludicolo, and other rain sweepers, particularly with Water Absorb. Unfortunately, the only recovery Mantine has is Rest and Sleep Talk, but it is just about bulky enough to use it without ending up as a sitting duck. This lack of recovery can particularly hurt considering Mantine is weak to Stealth Rock, but it can still be used. Scald is a fantastic move for a defensive Pokemon, and means that very few Pokemon are 100% safe switching into Mantine, always fearing that potentially game changing burn. Air Slash hits Roselia and Amoonguss Cacturne, and being able to beat both of these Pokemon simultaneously, while also absorbing sleep, is a massive boon for Mantine.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Defense is used to allow Mantine to effectively beat Fighting- and Ground-types, while the odd HP number is used to minimize the damage taken from Stealth Rock. It is also viable to use a specially defensive spread, which lets Mantine take on every special attacker without an Electric-type move, but it loses out on the ability to counter the aforementioned threats, such as Gurdurr, Piloswine, and Golurk. Water Absorb is fantastic for beating dedicated rain sweepers, and the extra recovery can really help, particularly if Stealth Rock is on the field. Toxic is always an option, but Mantine really doesn't want to give up Scald or Air Slash. Replacing Sleep Talk can leave it as a sitting duck occasionally, while without Rest Mantine becomes very easy to wear down.</p>

    <p>Despite having Rest and Sleep Talk, Mantine still greatly appreciates Wish support, and perhaps even more from a cleric. Heal Bell can wake Mantine up from sleep, meaning it can come in and do its job multiple times. Lickilicky in particular carries Wish and Heal Bell, while taking on special attackers with ease, and it also appreciates Mantine's ability to beat Fighting-types. Mantine is very easy prey for Volt Switch users, as they can easily force Mantine out and grab momentum. Naturally, Ground-types are excellent partners, particularly Golem and Golurk. Both of these Pokemon can set up Stealth Rock while simultaneously putting pressure back on the opponent, as well as having excellent synergy with Mantine. Piloswine can make another fantastic partner.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Mantine gets a few other interesting moves, but struggles to fit them onto a moveset. Mirror Coat and Haze would both get a lot of use, but Mantine really wishes it had reliable recovery outside of Rest to use them with. Protect is also a great move for scouting Choice Volt Switch users, but it can be hard to fit onto a moveset. Even Tailwind could be useful for supporting teammates without Swift Swim that still want the Speed boost, but it is hard to pull off and situational. Despite having a big movepool, lots of it is unfortunately useless due to the terrible base 40 Attack.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Mantine actually does a decent job beating itself, as defensive sets can take on most Rain Dance sets with ease, while the defensive set will just force a stalemate against itself. Dedicated special walls such as Lickilicky and Audino also wall the offensive sets. Storm Drain Cradily can pull off a similar trick, and threaten Mantine with STAB Rock-type moves. A great way to beat Mantine is to exploit its vulnerability to Electric-types; Rotom-S, Rotom-F, Electabuzz, Ampharos, and almost any other Electric-types do a great job in this regard. Samurott and Gorebyss carrying Hidden Power Electric must also be looked out for, as they will quickly dispatch of Mantine. Lapras is a fine alternative option to deal with Mantine, packing Water Absorb of its own to combat the boosted STAB Water moves. Gardevoir makes a great check by tracing either Water Absorb or Swift Swim, then outspeeding and OHKOing Mantine with Thunderbolt.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  12. Django

    Django
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,818
    Oglemi didn't like MANtine :(

    anyway ty for the check, I also removed a sentence in AC where I talked about Surf despite the same information being in Set Comments, idk how that happened.

    Ready for check 2!
  13. melvni

    melvni
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,148
    GP check. Good job on writing this. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) Oglemi might have been saying that you can keep the MANtine name but need to put Rain Dance in parentheses next to it. That's what looks like happened with things like Ursaring's Village Crusher (Guts) set, Kyurem-W's Burning Red White Kyurem (Choice-less) set, Volcarona's Moths Like Water, Not Fire (Drizzle Volcarona) set, and probably a few others on-site,though I can't seem to remember precisely where. I don't entirely feel like I know enough about those other cases to know if that's the case here though. Anyway, either way, great job once again.
    Additions in Blue
    Subtractions in Red
    Comments in Purple

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>With Mantine finally getting access to a useful Flying-type STAB move that isn't Hidden Power Flying, it has established a very solid niche for itself in the NU metagame. STAB-boosted Air Slash allows it to break through Grass-types such as Roselia, (remove comma) as well as and effectively dispatch Ludicolo, which are achievements not many other rain sweepers can boast. This position as one of the best Ludicolo counters also makes it a solid option to combat opposing rain teams. Two useful abilities allow it to compete in both offensive and defensive roles, with Swift Swim essential for the offensive giving it the Speed needed to take out many threats while Water Absorb is fantastic for beating allowing it to wall and defeat rain sweepers and other Water-types.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Air Slash
    move 4: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Electric

    item: Life Orb
    ability: Swift Swim

    nature: Modest
    evs: 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>As one can imagine, the ability to beat the usual counters to rain sweepers makes Mantine a great sweeper itself, (remove comma) as well as a fantastic choice for a dedicated rain team. Almost every bulky Grass-type will be broken down by STAB Air Slash, which means other Pokemon that benefit from rain can sweep later in the match. Even as a standalone sweeper, the coverage offered by STAB Water- and Flying-type moves is fantastic, although Mantine does face competition from the more powerful but slower (in rain) Swanna. A fantastic Special Defense stat and decent HP also means mean Mantine can have often has an easier time setting up than other rain sweepers, but the unfortunate trade-off is that Mantine is slightly weaker. A weakness to Stealth Rock means that it can also be worn down and revenge killed with priority moves, particularly with Life Orb recoil involved also taking its toll. Hydro Pump should be used over Surf as Mantine has a relatively low Special Attack stat, (remove comma) and it really appreciates the extra Base Power. Air Slash is (too many spaces between Slash and is) essential to hit Ludicolo and Roselia, not to mention other troublesome Pokemon like Water Absorb Cacturne. Ice Beam will rarely be used, but it will do significantly more damage against Altaria and other Dragon-types, so it is still usable occasionally useful. Alternatively, Hidden Power Electric can be used to beat other Mantine, as well as allowing Mantine to easily check Gorebyss.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The chosen EV spread allows Mantine to outrun Choice Scarf Rotom-S and Rotom-F while it's raining. There is no need to run any more Speed than this, as no significant Pokemon will be outsped, (remove comma) and Modest is completely necessary due to the Mantine's low Special Attack. Damp Rock is certainly an option for the item slot, increasing the turns of rain and thus turning Mantine into a more support-based rain Pokemon, rather than focusing one focused on wallbreaking and sweeping. The power granted by Life Orb will certainly be missed (add comma) however, so bear that in mind if considering using Damp Rock.</p>

    <p>The natural place for this set is on a rain team, and as such, Ludicolo, Seismitoed Seismitoad (only Politoed is cursed with that terrible pun in its name), and Gorebyss all make fantastic partners as they can wear down each other's checks and counters, particularly opposing Ludicolo, Roselia, and other bulky Grass-types. It should be noted that it is not necessary to use all four on the same team, however. Dedicated special walls such as Lickilicky or and Audino will still wall Mantine, so powerful Fighting-types are great choices for teammates. Sawk in particular will dispose of them easily, as will Gurdurr. Alternatively, Golurk is immune to most things those walls can do, while sharing fantastic synergy with Mantine.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Physically Defensive
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Scald
    move 4: Air Slash

    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Bold

    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Mantine already has an excessive amount of special bulk, so it can easily run a set utilizing focused on patching up its physical bulk in order to take advantage of its interesting typing and check the likes of Golurk, Sawk, and Piloswine, as well as while also being a great counter to Gurdurr. It will still remain as is (or "it remains a..." if you prefer) a great answer to Ludicolo, (remove comma) and other rain sweepers, particularly with Water Absorb. Unfortunately, the only recovery Mantine has is Rest and Sleep Talk RestTalk, but it is just about bulky enough to use it without ending up as a sitting duck. This lack of recovery can particularly still hurt, however, considering Mantine is weak to Stealth Rock, but it can still be used. Scald is a fantastic move for a defensive Pokemon, (remove comma) and means that very few Pokemon are 100% safe switching into Mantine, always fearing that potentially game changing burn. Air Slash hits Roselia and Cacturne, and being able to beat both of these Pokemon simultaneously, (remove comma) while also absorbing sleep, (remove comma) is a massive boon for Mantine.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maximum Defense is used to allow Mantine to effectively beat Fighting- and Ground-types, while the odd HP number is used to minimize the damage taken from Stealth Rock. It is also viable to use a specially defensive spread, which lets Mantine take on pretty much every special attacker without an Electric-type move, but it such a spread loses out on the ability to counter many of the aforementioned threats mentioned earlier, such as Gurdurr, Piloswine, and Golurk. Water Absorb is fantastic for beating dedicated rain sweepers, and the extra recovery can really help, particularly if Stealth Rock is on the field. Toxic is always an option, but Mantine really doesn't want to give up Scald or Air Slash and appreciates the utility both Rest and Sleep Talk provide. Replacing Sleep Talk can leave it as a sitting duck occasionally, while without Rest (add comma) Mantine becomes very easy to wear down.</p>

    <p>Despite having Rest and Sleep Talk, Mantine still greatly appreciates support from a Wish support, passer and (add comma) perhaps even more (add comma) from a cleric. Heal Bell can wake Mantine up from sleep, meaning it can come in and do its job multiple times. Lickilicky in particular carries Wish and Heal Bell, (remove comma) while taking on special attackers with ease, and it also appreciates Mantine's ability to beat Fighting-types. Mantine is very easy prey for Volt Switch users, as they can easily force Mantine out and grab momentum. Naturally, Ground-types are excellent partners, particularly Golem and Golurk. Both of these Pokemon can set up Stealth Rock while simultaneously putting pressure back on the opponent, as well as having excellent synergy with Mantine. Piloswine can make another fantastic partner.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Mantine gets a few other interesting moves, but struggles to fit them onto a moveset. Mirror Coat and Haze would probably both get a lot of use, (remove comma) but Mantine really wishes it if Mantine had reliable recovery outside of Rest to use them with. Protect is also a great move for scouting Choice Volt Switch users, but it can be hard to fit onto a moveset. Even Tailwind could be useful for supporting teammates without Swift Swim that still want the Speed boost, but it is hard to pull off and situational. Despite having a big While Mantine's movepool is large, lots of it is unfortunately useless due to the its terrible base 40 Attack.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Mantine actually does a decent job beating itself, as defensive sets can take on most Rain Dance sets with ease, while the defensive set will just force forcing a stalemate against itself themselves. Dedicated special walls such as Lickilicky and Audino also wall the offensive sets. Storm Drain Cradily can pull off a similar trick, (remove comma) and threaten Mantine with STAB Rock-type moves. A great way to beat Mantine is to exploit its vulnerability to Electric-types; Rotom-S, Rotom-F, Electabuzz, Ampharos, and almost any all other Electric-types do a great job in this regard. Samurott and Gorebyss carrying Hidden Power Electric must also be looked out for, as they will can also quickly dispatch of Mantine. Lapras is a fine alternative option to deal with Mantine, packing Water Absorb of its own to combat the Rain Dance set's boosted STAB Water Water-type moves (maybe mention it also has Thunderbolt (if that's relevant) as well). Gardevoir makes a great check by tracing either Water Absorb or Swift Swim, then outspeeding and OHKOing Mantine with Thunderbolt.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  14. Django

    Django
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Messages:
    1,818
    Thanks for the check Melvi, the set name makes a lot more sense now.

    And this should be done :)
  15. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,654
    wooo good job, uploaded

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)