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MANtine [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by shnen, Dec 17, 2011.

  1. shnen

    shnen שוני
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    [​IMG]
    [Overview]

    <p>Mantine returns for the 5th generation, flying low again in NU. While his special bulk is equivalent to the physical bulk of his counterpart, Skarmory, Mantine’s typing lets him down, granting him weaknesses to Stealth Rock and a variety of common types. However, it does give him useful neutrality to Grass-type moves, making him an excellent switch into Gorebyss, and enabling him to hit Grass-types hard with a STAB Hidden Power Flying. In addition, he is granted a Fighting-type resistance and immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Mantine’s ability, Water Absorb, also allows him to switch in on Water-type moves and heal himself. Sadly, Mantine has poor HP and Defense stats, and no instant recovery outside of Rest, which means that he can easily be worn down. Mantine also competes with other defensive Water-types such as Frillish, so one must try and use his Spikes immunity and Grass-type neutrality well to set him apart from other bulky Water-types in the tier.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Scald
    move 4: Hidden Power Flying / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes advantage of Mantine’s fantastic special bulk, which allows makes him a good switch-in to nearly every special attacker lacking an Electric-type move. Rest, which allows Mantine to absorb status and is his only form of instant recovery, is a necessity on this set. Sleep Talk is used to prevent Mantine from becoming a sitting duck whilst asleep. Scald gives Mantine a solid STAB move with a nice burn rate, potentially crippling physical attackers attempting to hit him on his weaker defensive side. Mantine has a few options for the last slot: Hidden Power Flying smacks Grass-types harder than Ice Beam and usually breaks the Substitutes of 0/0 Jynx. It also hits Fighting-types such as Sawk and Throh fairly hard. On the other hand, Toxic cripples more defensively oriented Pokemon that may switch into Mantine, such as Alomomola or Lickilicky (lacking Heal Bell).</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD lets Mantine take neutral physical hits much better and takes advantage of his good resistances to primarily physical types such as Ground and Fighting, but Mantine’s sub-par physical bulk generally makes it a lackluster choice. In addition, it leaves Mantine open to being KOed by special attacks such as Magmortar’s non-Life Orb Thunderbolt. When one thinks of teammates for Mantine, the most obvious partner that comes to mind is a Pokemon who is able to take Electric-type attacks. Ground-types such as Golem and Quagsire work very well in conjunction with Mantine, as they are immune to Electric-type attacks and resist Rock. Raichu also makes a great partner, getting a boost from Electric-type attacks thanks to his Lightningrod ability while Mantine covers his sole Ground-type weakness.</p>

    <p>Mantine really appreciates Rapid Spin support due to his typing, which gives him a weakness to Stealth Rock. Cryogonal is perhaps one’s best bet, as it can take Thunderbolts aimed at Mantine with its fantastic Special Defense, while Mantine resists the Fire- and Fighting-type attacks that Cryogonal is weak to. However, it is not a wise idea to crowd your team with physically frail Pokemon with a weakness to Stealth Rock, so packing a physical wall is a good choice. Tangela in particular does a great job, resisting Electric-type attacks and boasting decent synergy with Mantine. Mantine really enjoys cleric support, waking him up early from his slumbers if needed. Heal Bell Misdreavus and Lickilicky can provide this for him. Aromatherapy Vileplume also makes a great partner, being able to tank Electric-type moves as well as healing Mantine from status.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Although Mantine actually has a surprisingly vast movepool, he lacks the stats to utilize most of it. Signal Beam can be used to hit Pokemon such as Mesprit and Absol on the switch a bit harder than Mantine’s other moves. Ice Beam can be used to hit the Dragon- and Flying-types that Hidden Power Flying misses out on, but Hidden Power Flying provides similar coverage without leaving Mantine walled by Water-types and Jynx. Mirror Coat works well with Mantine’s fantastic Special Defense, but it is foolish to run RestTalk with it, as Mantine will be doing nothing 66% of the time that he is asleep. Haze can be useful for Pokemon who try to set up on Mantine, but most Pokemon who boost their stats in NU can OHKO Mantine after a boost. Mantine can use Rain Dance in tandem with Swift Swim, but will find himself outclassed by more offensive Water-types. Finally, Mantine possesses a surprisingly wide physical movepool, but his dreadful base 40 Attack renders physical sets a complete joke.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The most obvious way to go about beating Mantine is to exploit his 4x weakness to Electric-type moves. Common users of such moves include Rotom-S, Electabuzz and Raichu. In addition to this, Stone Edge is a widespread coverage move that is used by many physical attackers such as Sawk; in fact, many physical attackers are able to take Mantine out just with their STAB moves if he does not resist them. Substitute + Calm Mind Mesprit can easily come in set up a Substitute on Mantine, and threaten him with Thunderbolt or Psyshock. As mentioned, Jynx carrying Substitute can easily set up on Mantine lacking Hidden Power Flying; even if Mantine has Hidden Power Flying, Jynx can still set up if it uses Lovely Kiss and Mantine is unlucky with Sleep Talk.</p>

    skeleton (open)
    [​IMG]

    [Overview]
    • Special Skarmory, so you'd think it'd be better than it is
    • Massive special defense.
    • Terrible typing really does it in
    • Will become infinitely better when Slowking and Lanturn move up, as he is majorly outclassed by them.
    • Lanturn is actually a decent partner with him though.
    • Mantyke actually has 18% more bulk, and survives many more notable things such as LO magmortar thunderbolt and swellow's facade, but is so much set up fodder with his pitiful base 60 special attack. This comes down to personal preference really.
    • SR weakness really hinders him.
    • Lack of being able to do anything while walling stuff lets him down (e.g. lay down spikes, shuffle around your opponents team with whirlwind, etc.)
    • No recovery apart from rest.
    • Nonetheless, MANtine is a bro.

      [Set]
      Name: Restalk
      Move 1: Rest
      Move 2: Sleep Talk
      Move 3: Scald
      Move 4: Hidden Power Flying/Toxic
      Item: Leftovers
      Ability: Water Absorb
      Nature: Calm
      EVs: 252 HP/ 4 Def/ 252 SpD

      [Set Comments]
    • The Spread allows him to do what he's supposed to do, which is wall special hits with his great special defense.
    • Rest is his only method of recovery aside from water absorb, and it allows him to continue to tank special hits for a long period of time, as well as making a great status absorber.
    • Scald is primarily used for it's 30% burn rate, allowing Mantine potentially cripple the physical attackers that will inevitably be switching in to him.
    • The last move depends on who you want to be aiming for: Hidden Power Flying hits Sawk and other fighting types hard, as well as hitting grass types such as roselia while preventing scolipede from setting up hazards (although they are hit hard by scald, and may be running Rock Slide anyway.), while toxic cripples more defensive mons like slowking and cryogonal.

      [Additional Comments]
    • A physically defensive set is viable, allowing Mantine to have a much easier time taking neutral physical hits, and he is no longer 2hkoed by banded Sawk's close combat for example.
    • Using Mantine practically requires someone to take electric attacks.
      Lanturn makes an good partner due to Volt Absorb, and in addition she has Heal Bell to wake a resting Mantine up early. Mantine can also take Ground attacks aimed at Lanturn. Magneton is also a great partner, resisting both of Mantine's weaknesses as well as being supported by Mantine's ability to take Ground, Electric, and Fire-type attacks. Raichu can also come in on electric attacks used on Mantine and then either set up with Encore/Nasty plot or hit someone hard.
    • Rapid Spin support really helps Mantine due to his weakness to Stealth Rock, but unfortunately none of them have particularly good synergy with Mantine, as none of them resist electric, and the only one not weak to Rock-type attacks (and SR by extension) is Wartortle, who is another bulky water type, and shares Mantine's Electric weakness.
    • Cryogonal is probably your best bet, as it can take thunderbolts aimed at Mantine with his great special defense, while Mantine resists the Fire- and Fighting-type attacks that he is weak to.
    • However, it is not best to crowd your team with physically frail SR weak pokemon, so make sure you have pokemon to take physical hits well, Tangela does a good job, resisting Electric attacks and sharing good synergy with Mantine, as well as having regenerator to switch in to tank a hit aimed at Mantine and then switch out.


      [Other Options]
    • Signal beam to hit mesprit (and other psychic types) and absol, but both are likely moving up, and he should not be staying in on either of them, as he risks being set up fodder/dieing anyway.
    • Ice Beam could also be used to hit Grass-, Dragon- and Flying- types, but Hidden Power Flying provides similar coverage while not leaving him walled by water types, and there are no special dragons in the tier which is all Mantine would want to come in on.
    • Mirror Coat works well with Mantine's great special defense, but Mantine cannot run Restalk with it, and so is left without reliable recovery meaning he cannot use it too much. It is a good option with cleric support however, and in the right circumstances can be game changing.
    • Haze can also be used, but due to the lack of boosters how cannot get past Mantine in one shot / do not carry substitute in NU it is not particularly useful, although it can be good for Throh and Duosion.

      [Checks and Counters]
    • Electric attack= gg for Mantine
    • Magneton can set up a sub on him and then kill him.
    • Lanturn can take both of his STAB moves, heal bell off a toxic, and kill him with an electric move.
    • Strong physical attackers can take him out with strong STAB moves, or with Stone Edge which has a wide distribution.
    • SubCm Mesprit sets up a sub on him easily and can then proceed to kill him off with thunderbolt or boost all the way to +6, although you should never let this happen of course.

      [Dream World]
    • Water Veil is useless for Mantine as he is only going to be using special attacks and can rest off the burn , and most opponents have better things to be doing then sticking around and trying to burn Mantine anyway. Always go for Water Absorb when using Mantine.


  2. Saladbagle

    Saladbagle

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    Mantine has 80 Special ATtack, not 60.
  3. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
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    he was talking about mantyke.

    Mirror Coat is fully legal with Restalk (breed with Mirror Coat Corsola in 4th gen, teach rest/talk, transfer to 5th gen, add scald).

    mention Icy Wind in OO?

    I really hope that some mod will allow you to change the name to MANtine
  4. shnen

    shnen שוני
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    I understood that, i just meant that using rest talk in conjunction with mirror coat is terrible as 66% of the time you will do nothing.
    Icy wind is just terrible as there is no one that he would enjoy outspeeding too much, and would much rather try to status them. I dont think it should be there imo.
  5. Charge

    Charge

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    Raichu will be good(especially a SpecsChu) as Mantine acts as a bait and lure Electric attacks from Electabuzz or something like that and Raichu can come in and TBolt everybody. Nasty Plot variants can take advantage of the locked Electric attacks from other Pokes and NP up. But since Volt Absorb has been mentioned so...
  6. shnen

    shnen שוני
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    Yeah i was thinking of mentioning that but i forgot about raichu, and zebstrika ddint seem good enough for me to mention, will definetly put raichu in,thanks!
    Edit: it's in.
  7. tennisace

    tennisace ium's avatar is his butt on my face
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

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    Really? This is the best MANtine can run? yuck.

    [​IMG]
  8. shnen

    shnen שוני
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    I know for someone with such a good name he's pretty shit :( thanks for the stamp and the awesome title change :D
    Edit: ok who the FUCK changed the title back :'(
  9. Omicron

    Omicron
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    why are there so many shitty mons

    fu gf

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  10. Ice-eyes

    Ice-eyes Simper Fi

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    Oh my god why does this thing exist.

    [​IMG]
  11. shnen

    shnen שוני
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    This is finally written and ready for GP checks :D
  12. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    Your whole analysis was massive and didn't really need all the information you put in. I tried to condense it a bit. Unnecessary length is a huge turnoff to readers.

    unofficial check

    [box][Overview]

    <p>Mantine returns for the 5th generation, flying low again in NU. Possessing some of the best special-attacking-taking abilities in the NU tier, Mantine should make a good special wall on paper. U; unfortunately, unlike his twincounterpart, Skarmory, Mantine has a bad defensive typing — his Water/Flying typing grants him a 4x weakness to fairly-common Electric-type moves, as well as a weakness to Stealth Rock. However, despite his secondary Flying-typing providing him with these weaknesses, it does give him a useful neutrality to Grass-type moves, something that not many wWater-types can boast, making him an excellent switch-into Gorebyss, one of the most predominant threats, Gorebyss, as well as being abland enabling Mantine to hit Grass-types hard with a STAB Hidden Power Flying, i. In addition, he is granted a Fighting resistance and a Ground immunity, which also saves him from being affected by Spikes and Toxic Spikes, somethinghazards that most other bulky Water-types hate to see on their side of the field. In addition, Mantine has access to the ability Water Absorb, which allows it to switch in with ease to Pokemon such as Quagsire and Alomomola, as well ason Water-type moves and heal itself. Mantine lost a lot of competition after the January tier shifts, making ithim one of the few good bulky Water-types in the NU tier, although he did lose one of his best partners, Magneton; the two resisted every type in the game together! Sadly, Mantine has poor HP and Defense stats, as well as relying on Rest for recovery, meaning he can easily be worn down, and also finds it hard to take advantage of some of his resistances, for example he is nearly 2HKOed by Adamant Sawk’s Close Combat, which is a guaranteed 2HKO with Stealth Rock down. As well as this, Mantine cannot do too much to the opponent other then walling things and maybe spreading around Toxic’s, and is quite big set up fodder; despite having the word man in his name, Mantine is weak and not particularly manly. Sadly, Mantine has poor HP and Defense stats, as well as nothing in terms of proper recovery, meaning he can easily be worn down. Mantine also faces the issue of being potentially outclassed by other Ddefensive Water-types such as Frillish, so one must look to his Spikes immunity and Grass neutrality to set him apart. If one provides Mantine with the right support, he will prove to be an excellent addition to any team in need of a bulky Water-type.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Rest Talk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Scald
    move 4: Hidden Power Flying / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes advantage of Mantine's fantastic special bulk, which allowings him to make a good switch-in to nearly every special attacker lacking an Electric-type move, such as Gorebyss and Jynx (although sets running Substitute will set up easily on Mantines lacking Hidden Power Flying). Rest is Mantine's only way to recover his HP, excluding Water Absorb which is even more unreliable then Rest, and so is aHP outside of the unreliable Water Absorb, making it necessitary on this set. It also allows him to become a greatuseful status absorber. Sleep Talk is used to prevent Mantine from becoming set up fodder whilst asleep, meaning Pokemon such as Nasty Plot Jynx whom Mantine would otherwise beat can set up on him freely, before finally going for the kill and possibly sweeping. Scald gives Mantine a solid STAB move to use against opponents, also having a very nice burn chanca sitting duck whilst asleep. Scald gives Mantine a solid STAB move with a solid burn rate, letting him potentially cripple physical attackers attempting to hit him on his weaker defensive side. Mantine has a few options for the last slot.; Hidden Power Flying lets him smack Grass-types, hitting harder then Ice Beam due to receiving a STAB bonus, as well as hitting Jynx, always breaking any Substitutes she may set up, and stopping from her getting a freeand hits Jynx while always breaking any Substitutes she may set up on him. It also hits Fighting-Ttypes such as Sawk and Throh fairly hard. On the other hand, Toxic cripples more defensively orientated Pokemon that may switch into him, such as Alomomola or Lickilicky (lacking Heal Bell). .</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD can also be runbe used, letting Mantine take neutral physical hits much better, and letting him become a better check to Pokemon such as Sawk, taking advantage of his good resistances to primarily physical types such as Ground- and Fighting-Type attacks,; however; Mantine’s bad's sub-par physical bulk generally makes it a lesser choice; i. In addition, it leaves Mantine open to being KOed by many more special attacks such as Magmortar's (Thunderbolt without a boosting item) Thunderbolt. When one thinks aboutof teammates for Mantine, the most obvious thing that comes to mind is somea Pokemone who is able to take Electric-type attacks. Ground-types such as Golem and Quagsire work very well in conjunction with Mantine, beingas they are immune to Electric-type attacks and resisting Rock. Raichu also makes a great partner, getting a boost from Electric attacks thanks to his Lightningrod ability, while Mantine covers his sole Ground weakness. HeRaichu can then proceed to Encore the opponent, giving him another free boosts.</p>

    <p>Mantine really appreciates Rapid Spin support due to his typing, which grants him a weakness to Stealth Rock. Unfortunately, none of the Pokemon that can utilize Rapid Spin in NU share particularly good synergy with Mantine, with all apart from Wartortle sharing a weakness to Rock and by extension Stealth Rock. Wartortle, however, is not a good match, as they share a Water typing and thus an Electric weakness. Cryogonal is perhaps one's best bet, as ithe can take Thunderbolts aimed at Mantine with his fantastic Special Defense, while Mantine resists the Fire- and Fighting-type attacks that Cryogonal is weak to. However, it is not a wise idea to crowd your team with physically-frail Pokemon with a weakness to Stealth Rock, and so it is practically required to also pack someone who is able to tank physical hits with ease. Tangela in particular does a great job, resisting Electric-type attacks and sharboasting decent synergy with Mantine, as well as having Regenerator, allowing him to switch in, tank a hit aimed at Mantine, hopefully force a switch, and then switch out and heal himself. In addition,. Mantine really enjoys cleric support, waking him up early from his slumbers if needed. This can be provided by Pokemon such as Lickilicky and Misdreavus,Heal Bell Lickilicky in particular makes a good partner as Mantine can switch in on Fighting-types that threaten him, such as Throh or Gurdurr. Aromatherapy Vileplume also makes a great partner, being able to tank Electric moves as well as healing him from status.</p>

    [/s][/b][/color][Other Options]

    [/b][/color]<p>Although Mantine actually has a surprisingly vast movepool, ithe severely lacks the stats to utilize most of it. ItHe has a wide assortment of physical attacks, but due to his abysmal base 40 Attack, they should never be used. Signal Beam can be used to hit Pokemon weak to it, such as Mesprit and Absol, but both have ways to killKO Mantine quickly, through using Thunderbolt or attacking with a Dark STAB move respectively. Ice Beam can be used to hit the Dragon- and Flying-types whicho Hidden Power Flying misses out on, howeverbut Hidden Power Flying provides similar coverage with a higher base power, while noithout leaving him walled by Water-types and Jynx; in addition. Furthermore, there are no specially-based Dragons in the tier, which is all Mantine would be able to come in on (he cannot take any of their physical attacks very well at all). Mirror Coat can be used, working well with Mantine's fantastic Special Defense, but it is foolish to run Rest Talk with it, as 66% of the time that you are asleep you will be doing nothing and it only leaves room for one attack, letting various things set up on you, in addition most opponents will go into a physical attacker to more easily break through Mantine, meaning it is a waste of a move slot. Haze can be useful for Pokemon such as Throh and Duosion, however. Haze can be useful for Pokemon who try to set up on Mantine, but most Pokemon who boost their stats in NU can OHKO Mantine after a boost, and a few also carry Substitute. A set taking advantage of Mantine’s's other ability, Swift Swim, can be used, howeverbut it is almost completely outclassed by other Pokemon with thise ability such as Gorebyss orand Seismitoed. Mantine recieeived Water Veil from the Dream World,; however this is nearly entirely useless for him, as he is not affected by the Attack drop, and he can Rest the burn off. On the note of Rain, Mantine can make a decent Rain Dance user, h. However, he does not possess particularly good synergy with the common abusers of Rain, who are mainly Water-type as well.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The most obvious way to go about beating Mantine is to exploit his 4x weakness to Electric-type moves, common carriers of these. Common users of such moves include Rotom-sS, Electabuzz, and Raichu. In addition to this, Stone Edge is a widespread coverage move that is used by many physical attackers such as Sawk; in fact, many physical attackers are able to take him out just with their STAB moves if he does not resist it, hitting Mantine on his weaker defence. SubCM. Substitute + Calm Mind Mesprit can easily come in and set up a Substitute on him, as well asnd threatening him with a Thunderbolt or a Psyshock. As mentioned throughout the analysis, Jynxes carrying Substitute can easily set up on Mantines lacking Hidden Power Flying, and even thenif Mantine has Hidden Power Flying, she can set up with some luckhelp from Sleep Talk.</p>[/box]
  13. shnen

    shnen שוני
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    Thank you charmander!
    Given that charmander took out a fair amount of the text, I'd like to hear a GP members opinion before implementing it.
  14. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    Thank you so much Charmander.

    Shnen, add the check please. I'll do a quick check once you do, as I saw a few errors.
  15. shnen

    shnen שוני
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    implemented, just have a few questions:
    I would like to leave the examples in at the end of set comments, as they help to show the reader why Toxic is useful on Mantine
    Also I'm fairly certain it should be primarily and not primary physical attacks, as they are mostly physical, but not entirely.
    Also I swapped the last two sentences of OO around as the last one is still referring to Swift Swim.
  16. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    I agree with all of your points. leave in the examples in Set Comments, leave it as primarily, but remove the sentence about Water Veil.

    Check coming up ...
  17. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    Working on top of Charmander's check.

    [​IMG]
    Mantine Analysis (open)


    [​IMG]

    GP Approved 1/2
  18. shnen

    shnen שוני
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    implemented Noblues check, added a sentence at the end about Lovely Kiss, ready for 2nd check!
  19. Danilo

    Danilo
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    am gp check incoming

    WAIT I FORGOT TO DO OO GIMME A MIN
    EDIT: DID OO AND CC.
  20. shnen

    shnen שוני
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  21. breh

    breh ● ︿ ●
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    [Overview]

    <p>Mantine returns for the 5th generation, flying low again in NU. Possessing some of the best special attack-tanking abilities in the NU tier, Mantine should make a good special wall on paper; unfortunately, unlike his counterpart Skarmory, Mantine has bad defensive typing—his Water / Flying typing grants him a 4x weakness to fairly common Electric-type moves, as well as a weakness to Stealth Rock. While his special bulk is equivalent to the physical bulk of his counterpart, Skarmory, Mantine's typing lets him down, granting him weaknesses to Stealth Rock and a variety of common types. However, despite his secondary Flying typing providing him with these weaknesses, it does give him a useful neutrality to Grass-type moves, something that not many Water-types can boast, making him an excellent switch into Gorebyss, one of the most predominant NU threats, and enabling Mantine him to hit Grass-types hard with a STAB Hidden Power Flying. In addition, (add comma) he is granted a Fighting-type resistance and a Ground-type immunity, which saves him from being affected by Spikes and Toxic Spikes, hazards that most other bulky Water-types hate an immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes. As well as that, Mantine has the Water Absorb ability, which Otherwise, Mantine's ability, Water Absorb, allows him to switch in on Water-type moves and heal himself. Sadly, Mantine has poor physical bulk, as well as nothing in terms of proper recovery, and no instant recovery outside of Rest, which meaning means that he can easily be worn down. Mantine also faces the issue of being potentially outclassed by competes with other defensive Water-types such as Frillish, so one must look to his Spikes immunity and Grass-type neutrality to set him apart. If one provides Mantine with the right support, he will prove to be an excellent addition to any team in need of a bulky Water-type.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Scald
    move 4: Hidden Power Flying / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes advantage of Mantine's fantastic special bulk, which allows him to make a good switch-in to nearly every special attacker lacking an Electric-type move. Rest is , (add comma) which allows Mantine to absorb status and is his Mantine's only way to recover HP outside of the unreliable Water Absorb form of instant recovery, and so is a necessity on this set. It also allows him to become a useful status absorber. Sleep Talk is used to prevent Mantine from becoming a total sitting duck whilst asleep. Scald gives Mantine a solid STAB move with a nice burn rate, letting him potentially and may cripple physical attackers attempting to hit him on his weaker defensive side. Mantine has a few options for the last slot; Hidden Power Flying lets him smack Grass-types harder than Ice Beam and hits Jynx while always breaking any Substitutes she may set up on him usually breaks the Substitutes of 0/0 Jynx (just a note, but it fails to break it a very small amount of the time). It also hits Fighting-Types such as Sawk and Throh fairly hard (again, HP Flying does lol to the Throh set onsite). On the other hand, Toxic cripples more defensively orientated Pokemon that may switch into him, such as Alomomola or Lickilicky (lacking Heal Bell) (most Lickilicky have heal bell though, don't they?).</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD can be used, letting lets Mantine take neutral physical hits much better, (remove comma) and taking takes advantage of his good resistances to primarily physical types such as Ground and Fighting; however , (add comma) butMantine's sub-par physical bulk generally makes it a lesser lackluster choice. In addition, (add comma) it leaves Mantine open to being KOed by many more new KOes from special attacks such as Magmortar's non-Life Orb Thunderbolt. When one thinks of teammates for Mantine, the most obvious thing partner that comes to mind is a Pokemon who is able to take Electric-type attacks. Ground-types such as Golem and Quagsire work very well in conjunction with Mantine, as they are immune to Electric-type attacks and resist Rock. Raichu also makes a great partner, getting a boost from Electric-type attacks thanks to his Lightningrod ability while Mantine covers his sole Ground-type weakness. Raichu can then proceed to Encore the opponent, giving him an extra turn for another free boost.</p>

    <p>Mantine really appreciates Rapid Spin support due to his typing, which gives him a weakness to Stealth Rock. Unfortunately, none of the Pokemon that can utilize Rapid Spin in NU share particularly good synergy with Mantine, with all apart from Wartortle sharing a weakness to Rock-type moves and by extension, Stealth Rock. Wartortle, however is not a good match as they share an Electric-type weakness. (if you're playing NU, you know that all of the spinners (bar cryo, to an extent) are terrible) Cryogonal is perhaps one's best bet, as it can take Thunderbolts aimed at Mantine with its fantastic Special Defense, while Mantine resists the Fire- and Fighting-type attacks that Cryogonal is weak to. However, it is not a wise idea to crowd your team with physically frail Pokemon with a weakness to Stealth Rock, so it is practically required to also pack a Pokemon that is able to tank physical hits with ease packing a physical wall is a good choice. Tangela in particular does a great job, resisting Electric-type attacks and boasting decent synergy with Mantine. Mantine really enjoys cleric support, waking him up early from his slumbers if needed. Heal Bell Lickilicky in particular makes a good partner, as Mantine can switch in on Fighting-types that threaten Lickilicky, such as Throh or Gurdurr (I already said how little HP Flying does to fighting type mons; switching in on either is a death wish... I'm fine with Licky itself (also missy?) but don't mention countering fighting type mons). Aromatherapy Vileplume also makes a great partner, being able to tank Electric-type moves as well as healing Mantine from status.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Although Mantine actually has a surprisingly vast movepool, he lacks the stats to utilize most of it. He has a wide assortment of physical attacks, but due to his abysmal base 40 Attack stat they should never be used. (I don't know why, but mentioning (attacks based off of a terrible stat) was more of a thing done in earlier gens, possibly as a result of the physical/special split... don't do it now) Signal Beam can be used to hit Pokemon such as Mesprit and Absol, but both can KO Mantine, so it is better to just switch out on the switch a bit harder than Mantine's other moves. Ice Beam can be used to hit the Dragon- and Flying-types who that Hidden Power Flying misses out on, but Hidden Power Flying provides similar coverage without leaving him Mantine walled by Water-types and Jynx. Futhermore, there are no specially-based Dragon-types in NU, which is all Mantine would be able to come in on. Mirror Coat can be used, and works well with Mantine's fantastic Special Defense, but it is foolish to run RestTalk with it, as 66% of the time that Mantine is asleep he will be doing nothing. Haze can be useful for Pokemon who try to set up on Mantine, but most Pokemon who boost their stats in NU can OHKO Mantine after a boost. A set taking advantage of Mantine's other ability, Swift Swim, can be used, but it is almost completely outclassed by other Pokemon with the ability such as Gorebyss and Seismitoad. On the note of rain, Mantine can make a decent Rain Dance user. However he does not possess particularly good synergy with the common abusers of rain, who are mainly Water-type as well. Mantine can use Rain Dance in tandem with Swift Swim, but will find himself outclassed by more offensive Water-types.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The most obvious way to go about beating Mantine is to exploit his 4x weakness to Electric-type moves. Common users of such moves include Rotom-S, Electabuzz and Raichu. In addition to this, Stone Edge is a widespread coverage move that is used by many physical attackers such as Sawk; in fact, many physical attackers are able to take him Mantine out just with their STAB moves if he does not resist them. Substitute + Calm Mind Mesprit can easily come in and set up a Substitute on Mantine and threaten him with a Thunderbolt or Psyshock. As mentioned, Jynx carrying Substitute can easily set up on Mantine lacking Hidden Power Flying, (remove comma) and ; even if Mantine has Hidden Power Flying, she Jynx can still set up with some help from Sleep Talk after Lovely Kissing him or forcing him to use Rest if it uses Lovely Kiss and Mantine is unlucky with Sleep Talk.</p>
  22. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

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    Working on top of breh's check - (same color format)

    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Mantine returns for the 5th generation, flying low again in NU. Possessing some of the best special attack-tanking abilities in the NU tier, Mantine should make a good special wall on paper; unfortunately, unlike his counterpart Skarmory, Mantine has bad defensive typing—his Water / Flying typing grants him a 4x weakness to fairly common Electric-type moves, as well as a weakness to Stealth Rock. While his special bulk is equivalent to the physical bulk of his counterpart, Skarmory, Mantine's typing lets him down, granting him weaknesses to Stealth Rock and a variety of common types. However, despite his secondary Flying typing providing him with these weaknesses, it does give him a useful neutrality to Grass-type moves, something that not many Water-types can boast, making him an excellent switch into Gorebyss, one of the most predominant NU threats, and enabling Mantine him to hit Grass-types hard with a STAB Hidden Power Flying. In addition, (add comma) he is granted a Fighting-type resistance and a Ground-type immunity, which saves him from being affected by Spikes and Toxic Spikes, hazards that most other bulky Water-types hate an immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes. As well as that, Mantine has the Water Absorb ability, which Mantine's ability, Water Absorb, also allows him to switch in on Water-type moves and heal himself. Sadly, Mantine has poor physical bulk, as well as nothing in terms of proper recovery, and no instant recovery outside of Rest, which meaning means that he can easily be worn down. Mantine also faces the issue of being potentially outclassed by competes with other defensive Water-types such as Frillish, so one must look to try and use his Spikes immunity and Grass-type neutrality well to set him apart from other bulky Water-types in the tier. If one provides Mantine with the right support, he will prove to be an excellent addition to any team in need of a bulky Water-type.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Scald
    move 4: Hidden Power Flying / Toxic
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes advantage of Mantine's fantastic special bulk, which allows him tomakes him a good switch-in to nearly every special attacker lacking an Electric-type move. Rest, is (add comma) which allows Mantine to absorb status and is his Mantine's only way to recover HP outside of the unreliable Water Absorb form of instant recovery, and so is a necessity on this set. It also allows him to become a useful status absorber. Sleep Talk is used to prevent Mantine from becoming asitting duck whilst asleep. Scald gives Mantine a solid STAB move with a nice burn rate, letting him potentially crippling physical attackers attempting to hit him on his weaker defensive side. Mantine has a few options for the last slot: (colon) Hidden Power Flying lets him smacks Grass-types harder than Ice Beam and hits Jynx while always breaking any Substitutes she may set up on him usually breaks the Substitutes of 0/0 Jynx (just a note, but it fails to break it a very small amount of the time). It also hits Fighting-types such as Sawk and Throh fairly hard. On the other hand, Toxic cripples more defensively orientated Pokemon that may switch into him Mantine, such as Alomomola or Lickilicky (lacking Heal Bell).</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD can be used, letting lets Mantine take neutral physical hits much better, (remove comma) and taking takes advantage of his good resistances to primarily physical types such as Ground and Fighting, however (add comma) but Mantine's sub-par physical bulk generally makes it a lesser lackluster choice. In addition, (add comma) it leaves Mantine open to being KOed by many morespecial attacks such as Magmortar's non-Life Orb Thunderbolt. When one thinks of teammates for Mantine, the most obvious thing partner that comes to mind is a Pokemon who is able to take Electric-type attacks. Ground-types such as Golem and Quagsire work very well in conjunction with Mantine, as they are immune to Electric-type attacks and resist Rock. Raichu also makes a great partner, getting a boost from Electric-type attacks thanks to his Lightningrod ability while Mantine covers his sole Ground-type weakness. Raichu can then proceed to Encore the opponent, giving him an extra turn for another free boost.</p>

    <p>Mantine really appreciates Rapid Spin support due to his typing, which gives him a weakness to Stealth Rock. Unfortunately, none of the Pokemon that can utilize Rapid Spin in NU share particularly good synergy with Mantine, with all apart from Wartortle sharing a weakness to Rock-type moves and by extension, Stealth Rock. Wartortle, however is not a good match as they share an Electric-type weakness. (if you're playing NU, you know that all of the spinners (bar cryo, to an extent) are terrible) Cryogonal is perhaps one's best bet, as it can take Thunderbolts aimed at Mantine with its fantastic Special Defense, while Mantine resists the Fire- and Fighting-type attacks that Cryogonal is weak to. However, it is not a wise idea to crowd your team with physically frail Pokemon with a weakness to Stealth Rock, so it is practically required to also pack a Pokemon that is able to tank physical hits with ease packing a physical wall is a good choice. Tangela in particular does a great job, resisting Electric-type attacks and boasting decent synergy with Mantine. Mantine really enjoys cleric support, waking him up early from his slumbers if needed. Heal Bell Lickilicky in particular makes a good partner, as Mantine can switch in on Fighting-types that threaten Lickilicky, such as Throh or Gurdurr (I already said how little HP Flying does to fighting type mons; switching in on either is a death wish... I'm fine with Licky itself (also missy?) but don't mention countering fighting type mons). Aromatherapy Vileplume also makes a great partner, being able to tank Electric-type moves as well as healing Mantine from status.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Although Mantine actually has a surprisingly vast movepool, he lacks the stats to utilize most of it. He has a wide assortment of physical attacks, but due to his abysmal base 40 Attack stat they should never be used. (I don't know why, but mentioning (attacks based off of a terrible stat) was more of a thing done in earlier gens, possibly as a result of the physical/special split... don't do it now) Signal Beam can be used to hit Pokemon such as Mesprit and Absol, but both can KO Mantine, so it is better to just switch out on the switch a bit harder than Mantine's other moves. Ice Beam can be used to hit the Dragon- and Flying-types who that Hidden Power Flying misses out on, but Hidden Power Flying provides similar coverage without leaving him Mantine walled by Water-types and Jynx. Futhermore, there are no specially-based Dragon-types in NU, which is all Mantine would be able to come in on. Mirror Coat can be used, and works well with Mantine's fantastic Special Defense, but it is foolish to run RestTalk with it, as 66% of the time that Mantine is asleep he Mantinewill be doing nothing 66% of the time that he is asleep. Haze can be useful for Pokemon who try to set up on Mantine, but most Pokemon who boost their stats in NU can OHKO Mantine after a boost. A set taking advantage of Mantine's other ability, Swift Swim, can be used, but it is almost completely outclassed by other Pokemon with the ability such as Gorebyss and Seismitoad. On the note of rain, Mantine can make a decent Rain Dance user. However he does not possess particularly good synergy with the common abusers of rain, who are mainly Water-type as well. Mantine can use Rain Dance in tandem with Swift Swim, but will find himself outclassed by more offensive Water-types. Finally, Mantine possesses a surprisingly wide physical movepool, but his dreadful base 40 Attack renders physical sets a complete joke.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>The most obvious way to go about beating Mantine is to exploit his 4x weakness to Electric-type moves. Common users of such moves include Rotom-S, Electabuzz, and Raichu. In addition to this, Stone Edge is a widespread coverage move that is used by many physical attackers such as Sawk; in fact, many physical attackers are able to take him Mantine out just with their STAB moves if he does not resist them. Substitute + Calm Mind Mesprit can easily come in, and set up a Substitute on Mantine, and threaten him with a Thunderbolt or Psyshock. As mentioned, Jynx carrying Substitute can easily set up on Mantine lacking Hidden Power Flying, (remove comma) and ; even if Mantine has Hidden Power Flying, she Jynx can still set up with some help from Sleep Talk after Lovely Kissing him or forcing him to use Rest if it uses Lovely Kiss and Mantine is unlucky with Sleep Talk.</p>


    [​IMG]

    GP 2 / 2
  23. shnen

    shnen שוני
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Sep 13, 2011
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    thank you calm pokemaster and breh, implemented
    unless anyone has any objections, this is now ready for upload!
  24. dragonboy52

    dragonboy52
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,986
    AC

    <p>An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD letsMantine take neutral physical hits much better and takes advantage of his good resistances to primarily physical types such as Ground and Fighting,(add space)but Mantine’s sub-par physical bulk generally makes it a lackluster choice. In addition, it leaves Mantine open to being KOed by special attacks such as Magmortar’s non-Life Orb Thunderbolt. When one thinks of teammates for Mantine, the most obvious partner that comes to mind is a Pokemon who is able to take Electric-type attacks. Ground-types such as Golem and Quagsire work very well in conjunction with Mantine, as they are immune to Electric-type attacks and resist Rock. Raichu also makes a great partner, getting a boost from Electric-type attacks thanks to his Lightningrod ability while Mantine covers his sole Ground-type

    k bye
  25. shnen

    shnen שוני
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    fixed, thank you

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