1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Mantyke (BW2 Revamp) [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Rowan, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,476
    Current Analysis

    Removed Agility set 'cos it's stupid.

    [Overview]
    <p>Mantyke is a rather unique Pokemon in Little Cup. It is one of the few Water-types that can take on Grass-types thanks to its secondary Flying typing. This also makes it a good check to Fighting- and Ground-types. However, its Flying typing works as a double-edged sword as it gives it a crippling 4x Electric weakness and a weakness to Stealth Rock. Don't let this steer you away from using Mantyke, though, as it does have a few more things going for it. It has the best Special Defense in Little Cup by far and it possesses two great abilities, allowing it to be both a defensive and offensive threat.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Air Slash
    move 4: Scald / Toxic
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Bold
    evs: 156 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpA / 116 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Thanks to its great defenses, Mantyke is a good candidate for a RestTalk set. With the given EVs and an Eviolite, Mantyke reaches a Special Defense stat of 30, allowing it to take on many special attackers such as Snover and Misdreavus. Thanks to the Defense investment and its secondary Flying typing, it can also take on many Fighting-types such as Timburr, Croagunk, and Mienfoo, although it must watch out for the occasional Stone Edge from the latter. The various Grass-types of the tier, such as Shroomish and Foongus, also fear this set since Mantyke shrugs off the status moves that they commonly carry with Rest.</p>

    <p>Rest and Sleep Talk are the mandatory moves; Rest is Mantyke's only form of recovery and it removes status such as Toxic, which would otherwise cripple it severely, whilst Sleep Talk stops Mantyke from being dead weight after it has used Rest. Air Slash is Mantyke's most reliable STAB move, and it allows it to take on the aforementioned Fighting- and Grass-types. The last moveslot is a toss-up between Scald and Toxic. Scald is a decent secondary STAB and it deals a large amount of damage to Rock-, Ground-, and Fire-types. The 30% burn chance is also appreciated which can help against physical attackers. However, Toxic is great for crippling bulky Pokemon like Lileep, Porygon, and Frillish, which would otherwise shrug off Mantyke's weak attacks. Toxic and Scald can be used in conjunction, but this is generally not recommended as Mantyke will then be walled by Croagunk, Shroomish, and Foongus.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>156 HP EVs give Mantyke an HP stat of 23, which is a Stealth Rock number, allowing Mantyke to take 5 HP damage instead 6 HP upon switching in. Maxed out Defense and a Bold nature are also chosen to boost Mantyke's lower defensive stat as much as possible. The remaining EVs are put into Special Defense and Special Attack. Water Absorb is the ability of choice, but do not expect it to see too much use, as many Water-types carry moves that hit Mantyke super effectively, such as Electric-type moves from Staryu and Chinchou, or Rock-type moves from Tirtouga. There is a not a lot of other options to use in the final slot. Hidden Power Fire could be used to hit Ferroseed, but this is far too situational as Air Slash and Scald are superior in almost all other situations.</p>

    <p>Due to Mantyke's Stealth Rock weakness, it needs to be paired with a Rapid Spin user. Drilbur can spin and also absorb Electric-type attacks aimed at Mantyke. Staryu is another option for a spinner, but it adds to Mantyke's Electric-type weakness. Mantyke appreciates a partner that can take on Electric-types such as Chinchou and Magnemite. A Chinchou of your own is a great choice to wall these Pokemon, whilst Mantyke can beat Grass-types that counter it. Lileep and Porygon are also good Pokemon that can beat Chinchou, and Mantyke can handle the Fighting-types that threaten them. Finally, Croagunk can take on many of Mantyke's counters such as Chinchou, Magnemite, Lileep, and Ferroseed.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swift Swim Sweeper
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Ice Beam / Substitute
    move 4: Air Slash / Substitute
    item: Life Orb / Eviolite
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 36 Def / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
    ivs: 0 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Mantyke can also take a more offensive approach with a Rain Dance set. Under rain, it gets a boost to its STAB Water-type moves as well as doubled Speed thanks to Swift Swim. With the prevalence of sand teams in the metagame, Mantyke has a great niche in disrupting the weather. The idea of this set is simple: Mantyke should set up Rain Dance against something that can do little to it, such as Hippopotas or Croagunk, and proceed to tear through the opposing team with its powerful Hydro Pump. Ice Beam is the main coverage move of choice as it can 2HKO Lileep with a Life Orb, allowing Mantyke to break through one of its would-be counters. Air Slash is a good secondary STAB move, hitting Snover and Croagunk for super effective damage. Substitute is another option which can be used over Air Slash or Ice Beam. This helps Mantyke avoid a Sucker Punch from Murkrow or Pawniard, but Croagunk will be an issue if it goes over Air Slash, and Lileep will wall Mantyke if it goes over Ice Beam.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The choice between Eviolite and Life Orb is a tough one. While the power difference is noticeable if you don't have a Life Orb, Eviolite will give Mantyke a much easier time setting up. If Life Orb is your item of choice, make sure you change the HP IVs to 0, which will give Mantyke only 1 HP recoil. Timid is an alternative option for the nature, which avoids the Speed tie with Choice Scarf Misdreavus and Choice Scarf Murkrow, but these situations are rare so Modest is the recommended ability. As for possible changes to the moveset, Hidden Power Grass can be used to 2HKO the standard RestTalk Chinchou on the switch in with a Life Orb.</p>

    <p>Mantyke appreciates certain Pokemon removed before it sweeps, particularly Chinchou, Staryu, Lileep, and Ferroseed. Croagunk has the ability to beat all of these Pokemon and also lures out Hippopotas and Bronzor which Mantyke can set up on. Croagunk's ability Dry Skin also benefits from the rain. Diglett can switch in on a predicted Electric-type move and proceed to trap and kill Chinchou, but it must be wary of switching into Hydro Pump or Scald. Lileep beats Chinchou and Staryu, and can also set up Stealth Rock which can help Mantyke get some KOs. In fact, most Grass-types can handle Chinchou and Staryu, making them great partners for Mantyke.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Unfortunately, Mantyke's movepool is very shallow, so it doesn't have many other options available to it. An Agility set can be used, but this is generally outclassed by the Swift Swim as it lacks the power of rain-boosted Hydro Pump. However, it does have some advantages such as Snover switch-ins not taking away Mantyke's Speed boost, the ability to run Water Absorb as the ability, and the ability to hit Ferroseed with Hidden Power Fire. Mantyke could utilize Haze, which can help against boosting sweepers like Scraggy and Timburr, but it is hard pushed for a moveslot. A bulky set with Aqua Ring is an option, but the recovery is generally not large enough and it will be beaten by status moves.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chinchou is undoubtedly the best Mantyke counter in the tier. It can take anything Mantyke throws at it, only worrying about the rare Life Orb-boosted Hidden Power Grass. It resists every other common attack, uses Rest to prevent Mantyke from defeating it with Toxic, and can KO Mantyke with any of its Electric STAB moves. Other Electric-types or Pokemon that use Electric moves give Mantyke a lot of trouble. Good examples are Magnemite and Staryu, who can both force it out rather easily with Thunderbolt. Ferroseed and Lileep are also troublesome to face. Ferroseed takes very little from any of Mantyke's moves and can set up entry hazards or use Leech Seed to slowly drain Mantyke's health. Lileep only fears Toxic or a Life Orb-boosted Ice Beam, but if you're not carrying those moves, it will take on Mantyke with ease. Both of these Pokemon can set up Stealth Rock which wears Mantyke down and discourages it from switching in too often. Many other bulky Pokemon such as Porygon or Frillish can also wear Mantyke down if it is not carrying Toxic.</p>

    <p>A good way to deal with Mantyke is to hit it on its weaker Defense stat. Pawniard and Murkrow will damage Mantyke severely with Sucker Punch if it is not running Substitute. Tirtouga can survive a hit with Sturdy and proceed to KO back with Stone Edge. If Mantyke hasn't had the chance to set up Rain Dance, Drilbur and Sandshrew can both outspeed and KO with Rock Slide. Although it is primarily a special attacker, Snover deserves a mention as it can switch into Hydro Pump from the Rain Dance set, remove rain thanks to Snow Warning, and 2HKO with Blizzard. It must be wary of Air Slash, however.</p>
  2. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    688
    SS mantyke is tonnes better than defensive mantyke so it should definitely get the first mention. Also, toxic should be slashed with air slash not scald as scald is better as your primary attack even if it does leave you walled by croagunk if you run toxic. The only things you really miss out on if you run scald+toxic are croagunk, foongus, and shroomish with only croagunk being fairly common. Toxic is generally better in my experience and lets you win one-on-one with loads of defensive mons than if you run air slash.

    Also, for the SS sweeper set, air slash isn't great as all you hit significantly harder is Snover and croagunk. Slash in substitute with it and put it as the last move. Substitute I've found is very useful when running eviolite as it's still actually pretty tough to break, and helps a lot against murkrow and chinchou which only run volt switch as their only electric move. You could also slash substitute with ice beam if you want, it all depends on what your team struggles with more: snover or lileep. Snover is much easier to wear down however, so that's why I think Ice Beam fits mantyke's role as a sweeper better.

    For partners, mention croagunk, porygon, and diglett as the main partners as they can all deal with its counters fairly well and share good synergy.
  3. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,476
    I really disagree with slashing toxic over air slash instead of scald. If you're not running Air Slash you lose to too much stuff like Croagunk, Shroomish, Timburr whilst if you run toxic>scald you're not missing out on much, except hitting ground types for large damage, but they can be stalled out anyway - I guess Drilbur is the main one but Scald doesn't OHKO and Drilbur can 2HKO with Rock Slide so Mantyke isn't the best check to that anyway. If you don't run Air Slash you lose the niche that it has over other water types

    I've taken in mind your comments about the SS set. I have slashed substitute with both Ice Beam and Air Slash and moved Ice Beam to slot 3 and Air Slash to slot 4. I will discuss the advantages of each one in the write up.

    Thanks for the teammate suggestions I probably wouldn't have thought of Diglett, but it sounds pretty cool.
  4. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2011
    Messages:
    688
    That's true about air slash, though I quite like getting a burn on an important physical attacker and then being pretty much invincible for the rest of the match but yeah, I guess air slash is more consistent.

    I'd also remove croagunk from the counters list, I think just a mention that you're walled by it in the Rest-talk section is enough as croagunk can do jack to mantyke. Also mention how one of croagunk's advantages of being used alongside mantyke is that it destroys lileep and ferroseed and lures out things mantyke can set up on like hippo.
  5. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,476
    I mentioned the fact you can use Scald+toxic but you're walled by certain things. Also I did remove Croagunk from the counters list because I agree, it can't really do anything to mantyke.
  6. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I'll be your light, your match, your burning sun
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,968
    I wouldn't mention HP Fire if I were you, because it literally hits nothing except Ferroseed, which can and should be handled by a teammate.

    On the Swift Swim set, I think you need to reorder some moves. Try this:

    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 3: Air Slash
    move 4: Ice Beam

    So basically, slash Surf in with HPump because you OHKO nearly everything anyway in Rain and misses suck. Air Slash in front of Ice Beam is it hits Grass types and Flying types harder, and it's more powerful in general (STAB) Ice Beam in the last slot to hit Dragons, I guess, as everything else is hit harder by HPump / Air Slash. Maybe slash a Hidden Power? Or Substitute?

    Speaking of Sub, move it to AC. It's great for handling Krow, but that's pretty much it, and you're just burning up valuable LO HP. Still, it's worth a mention in AC imo.

    Maybe mention Agility in OO. It's a decent set.

    Other than that, looks p good, nice work
  7. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,092
    Nah, Surf makes you miss ridiculous amounts of OHKOes (Misdreavus, Eviolite Murkrow, some Porygon, 2HKO on Chinchou, etc.) Hydro Pump should be the only option- Mantyke simply isn't strong enough in an Eviolite metagame to use Surf. Substitute should still be slashed with Ice Beam- Air Slash is very useful, but Substitute is vital for sweeping. Hidden Power Grass should be in AC for a 2HKO on all Chinchou. Don't even bother mentioning Agility at all.

    [qc]1/2[/qc]
  8. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,476
    So Sub should still be slashed with both moves? And is the order still okay? Also HP grass was already in AC. Also removed HP fire in AC 'cos it does less than other moves to Ferro in rain.
  9. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,092
    Yeah that's fine.
  10. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    7,742
    [qc]2/2[/qc]

    Mention Agility in OO. I disagree with iss, because OO is completely empty atm and it's mantyke's only real 'other option'
  11. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,476
    Thanks em + iss. Will get to writing this next week as I have a large assignment due this week.
  12. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,476
    This is ready for a final QC check.
  13. prem

    prem failed abortion
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,774
    add murkrow to checks and counters cause sucker punch fucks you up.
    snover shits on the rain dance set by getting rid of your rain.
    drilbur and sandshrew will kcik your ass if you dont have rain up.
    anything that uses a physical attack will kick your ass actually.
    magnemite exists mention that.
    porygon will wall you to hell and back if you dont have toxic.
    tirtouga is manly
    foongus and shroomish give about as many shits as lileep does even factoring in sstab air slash (im assuming cause they are bulky af. you should probably calc this one to make sure im not bullshiting lol)

    ya i care about checks and counters everything else seems fine so put those in in a quality way and

    [QC] 3/3[/qc]
  14. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,476
    Magnemite was already mentioned and you are wrong about Foongus and Shroomish. The defensive set 2HKOs them both and the offensive set has a 93.75% to OHKO them after Stealth Rock otherwise it's a clear 2HKO. Foongus and Shroomish can literally do nothing to Mantyke as the first set doesn't care about status, the second one just kills them and sometimes uses Substitute to block status.
    Thanks for the check, I'll add your changes in this evening probably. :)
  15. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    916
    Hihi, amateur check. This analysis was written well, not missing anything significant.

    Additions are Blue
    Removes are Red
    Comments are Purple.

    Amateur Check (open)

  16. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego Living in a world gone plastic
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,874
    I'm going to be highlighting just a few changes to this, mostly just highlighting the commas so they're easy to see. This is 95% governess' check, but make sure to implement this one, and carefully, there may be a couple commas I missed and I wouldn't want the same errors to have to be caught again.

    Show Hide
    [Overview]
    <p>Mantyke is a rather unique Pokemon in Little Cup. It is one of the few Water-types that can take on Grass-types thanks to its secondary Flying-typing. (Remember, no hyphen on Flying typing. Only on Flying-type, etc.) This also makes it a good check to Fighting-types and Ground-types. However, its Flying-typing works as a double-edged sword as it gives it a crippling 4x Electric weakness and a weakness to Stealth Rock. Don't let this putsteer you offfrom using Mantyke, though, as it does have a few more things going for it. It has the best Special Defense in Little Cup by far and it haposesses two great abilities, allowing it to be both a Ddefensive and Ooffensive threat.</p>

    (I think my comma usage may be too much here, I think I got them all; an official GP can check that over.)

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Air Slash
    move 4: Scald / Toxic
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Bold
    evs: 156 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpA / 116 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Thanks to its great defenses, Mantyke is a good candidate for a RestTalk set. With the given EVs and an Eviolite, Mantyke reaches a Special Defense stat of 30, allowing it to take on many Sspecial Aattackers such as Snover and Misdreavus. Thanks to the dDefense investment and its secondary Flying-type, it can also take on many Fighting-types such as Timburr, Croagunk and Mienfoo though it must watch out for the occasional Stone Edge from the latter. The various Grass-types of the tier, such as Shroomish and Foongus, also fear this set, since Mantyke shrugs off the status moves that they commonly carry with Rest.</p>

    <p>Rest and Sleep Talk are the obviousmandatory moves; Rest is Mantyke's only form of recovery and it removes status likesuch as Toxic, which would otherwise cripple it severely, whilst Sleep Talk stops Mantyke from being dead weight after it has rused Rested. Air Slash is Mantyke's most reliable STAB move, and it allows it to take on the aforementioned Fighting- and Grass-types. The last moveslot is a toss-up between Scald and Toxic. Scald is a decent secondary STAB and it deals large damage to Rock-, Ground-, and Fire-types. The 30% burn chance is also appreciated which can help against Pphysical attackers. Toxic, however, is great for crippling bulky pPokemon like Lileep, Porygon, and Frillish, which would otherwise shrug off Mantyke's weak attacks. Toxic and Scald can be used in conjunction, but this is generally not recommended as Mantyke will then be walled by Croagunk, Shroomish, and Foongus.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>156 HP EVs give Mantyke an HP stat of 23 which is a Stealth Rock number, allowing Mantyke to take 5 HP damage instead 6 HP upon switching in. Maxed out Defense and a Bold nature are also chosen to boost Mantyke's lower defensive stat as much as possible. The remaining EVs are put into Special Defense and Special Attack. Water Absorb is the ability of choice, but do not expect it to see too much use, as many Water-types carry moves that hit Mantyke super effectively, such as Electric-type moves from Staryu and Chinchou or Rock-type moves from Tirtouga. There is a not a lot of other options to use in the final slot. Hidden Power (Always spell out any Pokemon move fully, and capitalize then as well, unless it's part of a set name.) Fire could be used to hit Ferroseed, but this is far too situational as Air Slash and Scald are superior in almost all other situations.</p>

    <p>Due to Mantyke's Stealth Rock weakness, it needs to be paired with a Rapid Spinner. Drilbur can Sspin and also absorb Electric-type attacks aimed at Mantyke. Staryu is another option for a Rapid Spinner, but it adds to Mantyke's Electric-type weakness. Mantyke appreciates a partner that can take on Electric-types like, such as Chinchou and Magnemite. A Chinchou of your own is a great choice to wall these Pokemon, whilst Mantyke can beat Grass-types that counter it. Lileep and Porygon are alsother good Pokemon that can beat Chinchou, whilst Mantyke can handle the Fighting-types that threaten them. Finally, Croagunk can take on many of Mantyke's counters such as Chinchou, Magnemite, Lileep, and Ferroseed.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swift Swim Sweeper
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Ice Beam / Substitute
    move 4: Air Slash / Substitute
    item: Life Orb / Eviolite
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 36 Def / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
    ivs: 0 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Mantyke can also take a more offensive approach with a Rain Dance set. Under rain, it gets a boost to its STAB Water-type moves as well as doubled speed thanks to Swift Swim. With the prevalence of Sand teams in the metagame, Mantyke has a great niche in disrupting the weather. The idea of this set is simple;: Mantyke should set up Rain Dance against something that can't do muchlittle to it, such as Hippopotas or Croagunk, and proceed to tear through the opposing team with its powerful Hydro Pump. Ice Beam is the main coverage move of choice as it can 2HKO Lileep with a Life Orb, allowing Mantyke to break through one of its main counters. Air Slash is a good secondary STAB move, hitting Snover and Croagunk for super effective damage. Substitute is another option which can be used over Air Slash or Ice Beam. This helps Mantyke avoid a Sucker Punch from Murkrow or Pawniard, but Croagunk will be an issue if it goes over Air Slash, and Lileep will wall you if it goes over Ice Beam.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    <p>The choice between Eviolite and Life Orb is a tough one. Whilste the power difference is noticeable if you don't have a Life Orb, Eviolite will give Mantyke a much easier time setting up. If Life Orb is your item of choice, make sure you change the HP IVs to 0, which will give Mantyke only 1 HP recoil. Timid is an alternative option for the nature, which avoids the Speed tie with Choice Scarf Misdreavus and Choice Scarf Murkrow, but these situations are rare so Modest is the recommended ability. As for possible changes to the move set, Hidden Power Grass can be used to hit Chinchou on the switch in as it 2HKOs the standard RestTalk set with a Life Orb.</p>

    <p>Mantyke appreciates certain Pokemon removed before it sweeps, such as Chinchou, Staryu, Lileep, and Ferroseed. Croagunk has the ability to beat all of these Pokemon and also lures out Hippopotas and Bronzor which Mantyke can set up on. Croagunk's ability Dry Skin also benefits from the rain. Diglett can switch in on a predicted Electric move and, proceeding to trap and kill Chinchou, but it must be wary of switching into Hydro Pump or Scald. Lileep beats Chinchou and Staryu and can also set up Stealth Rock which can help Mantyke get some KOs. In fact, most Grass-types can handle Chinchou and Staryu, making them great partners for Mantyke.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>Unfortunately, Mantyke's movepool is very shallow, so it doesn't have many other options available to it. An Agility set can be used, but this is generally outclassed by the Swift Swim as it lacks the power of Rain boosted Hydro Pump. However it does have some advantages such as Snover switch-ins, not taking away Mantyke's Speed boost, the ability to run Water Absorb, and the ability to hit Ferroseed with Hidden Power Fire. Mantyke could utilisze Haze, which can help against boosting sweepers like Scraggy and Timburr, but it is hard pushed for a moveslot. A bulky set with Aqua Ring is an option, but the recovery is generally not large enough and it will be beaten by status moves.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chinchou is undoubtedly the best Mantyke counter in the tier. It can take anything Mantyke throws at it, only worrying about the rare Life Orb boosted Hidden Power Grass. It resists every other common attack, uses Rest preventing Mantyke from bdefeating it with tToxic, and can KO Mantyke with any of its Electric STABs. Other Electric-types or Pokemon that use Electric moves give Mantyke a lot of trouble. Good examples are Magnemite and Staryu, which can both force it out rather easily with Thunderbolt. Ferroseed and Lileep are also troublesome to face. Ferroseed takes very little from any of Mantyke's moves and can set up entry hazards or use Leech Seed to slowly drain Mantyke's health. Lileep only fears Toxic or a Life Orb boosted Ice Beam, but if you're not carrying those moves, it will take on Mantyke with ease. Both of these Pokemon can set up Stealth Rock which wears Mantyke down and discourages it from switching in too muchoften. Many other bulky Pokemon such as Porygon or Frillish can also wear Mantyke down if it is not carrying Toxic.</p>

    <p>A good way to deal with Mantyke is to hit it on its weaker dDefense. Pawniard and Murkrow will damage Mantyke severely with Sucker Punch if it is not running Substitute. Tirtouga can survive a hit with Sturdy and proceed to KO back with Stone Edge. If Mantyke hasn't had the chance to set up Rain Dance, Drilbur and Sandshrew can both outspeed and KO with Rock Slide. Although it is primarily a Special Attacker, Snover deserves a mention as it can switch into Hydro Pump from the Rain Dance set, remove rain thanks to Snow Warning, and 2HKO with Blizzard. It must be wary of Air Slash, thoughwever.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  17. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,476
    Thanks guys, implemented :)

    I guess I need to revise commas...
  18. Oglemi

    Oglemi <&Oglemi> i am a gay badger buddy :3
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,398
    add
    remove
    comments

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Mantyke is a rather unique Pokemon in Little Cup. It is one of the few Water-types that can take on Grass-types thanks to its secondary Flying typing. This also makes it a good check to Fighting- and Ground-types. However, its Flying typing works as a double-edged sword as it gives it a crippling 4x Electric weakness and a weakness to Stealth Rock. Don't let this steer you away from using Mantyke, though, as it does have a few more things going for it. It has the best Special Defense in Little Cup by far and it possesses two great abilities, allowing it to be both a defensive and offensive threat.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Sleep Talk
    move 3: Air Slash
    move 4: Scald / Toxic
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Bold
    evs: 156 HP / 196 Def / 36 SpA / 116 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Thanks to its great defenses, Mantyke is a good candidate for a RestTalk set. With the given EVs and an Eviolite, Mantyke reaches a Special Defense stat of 30, allowing it to take on many special attackers such as Snover and Misdreavus. Thanks to the Defense investment and its secondary Flying typing, it can also take on many Fighting-types such as Timburr, Croagunk, and Mienfoo, although it must watch out for the occasional Stone Edge from the latter. The various Grass-types of the tier, such as Shroomish and Foongus, also fear this set since Mantyke shrugs off the status moves that they commonly carry with Rest.</p>

    <p>Rest and Sleep Talk are the mandatory moves; Rest is Mantyke's only form of recovery and it removes status such as Toxic, which would otherwise cripple it severely, whilst Sleep Talk stops Mantyke from being dead weight after it has used Rest. Air Slash is Mantyke's most reliable STAB move, and it allows it to take on the aforementioned Fighting- and Grass-types. The last moveslot is a toss-up between Scald and Toxic. Scald is a decent secondary STAB and it deals a large amount of damage to Rock-, Ground-, and Fire-types. The 30% burn chance is also appreciated which can help against physical attackers. However, Toxic is great for crippling bulky Pokemon like Lileep, Porygon, and Frillish, which would otherwise shrug off Mantyke's weak attacks. Toxic and Scald can be used in conjunction, but this is generally not recommended as Mantyke will then be walled by Croagunk, Shroomish, and Foongus.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>156 HP EVs give Mantyke an HP stat of 23, which is a Stealth Rock number, allowing Mantyke to take 5 HP damage instead 6 HP upon switching in. Maxed out Defense and a Bold nature are also chosen to boost Mantyke's lower defensive stat as much as possible. The remaining EVs are put into Special Defense and Special Attack. Water Absorb is the ability of choice, but do not expect it to see too much use, as many Water-types carry moves that hit Mantyke super effectively, such as Electric-type moves from Staryu and Chinchou, or Rock-type moves from Tirtouga. There is a not a lot of other options to use in the final slot. Hidden Power Fire could be used to hit Ferroseed, but this is far too situational as Air Slash and Scald are superior in almost all other situations.</p>

    <p>Due to Mantyke's Stealth Rock weakness, it needs to be paired with a Rapid Spin user. Drilbur can spin and also absorb Electric-type attacks aimed at Mantyke. Staryu is another option for a Rapid spinner, but it adds to Mantyke's Electric-type weakness. Mantyke appreciates a partner that can take on Electric-types such as Chinchou and Magnemite. A Chinchou of your own is a great choice to wall these Pokemon, whilst Mantyke can beat Grass-types that counter it. Lileep and Porygon are also good Pokemon that can beat Chinchou, and Mantyke can handle the Fighting-types that threaten them. Finally, Croagunk can take on many of Mantyke's counters such as Chinchou, Magnemite, Lileep, and Ferroseed.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swift Swim Sweeper
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hydro Pump
    move 3: Ice Beam / Substitute
    move 4: Air Slash / Substitute
    item: Life Orb / Eviolite
    ability: Swift Swim
    nature: Modest
    evs: 36 Def / 196 SpA / 36 SpD / 196 Spe
    ivs: 0 HP

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Mantyke can also take a more offensive approach with a Rain Dance set. Under rain, it gets a boost to its STAB Water-type moves as well as doubled Speed thanks to Swift Swim. With the prevalence of sand teams in the metagame, Mantyke has a great niche in disrupting the weather. The idea of this set is simple: Mantyke should set up Rain Dance against something that can do little to it, such as Hippopotas or Croagunk, and proceed to tear through the opposing team with its powerful Hydro Pump. Ice Beam is the main coverage move of choice as it can 2HKO Lileep with a Life Orb, allowing Mantyke to break through one of its main would-be counters. Air Slash is a good secondary STAB move, hitting Snover and Croagunk for super effective damage. Substitute is another option which can be used over Air Slash or Ice Beam. This helps Mantyke avoid a Sucker Punch from Murkrow or Pawniard, but Croagunk will be an issue if it goes over Air Slash, and Lileep will wall Mantyke if it goes over Ice Beam.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The choice between Eviolite and Life Orb is a tough one. While the power difference is noticeable if you don't have a Life Orb, Eviolite will give Mantyke a much easier time setting up. If Life Orb is your item of choice, make sure you change the HP IVs to 0, which will give Mantyke only 1 HP recoil. Timid is an alternative option for the nature, which avoids the Speed tie with Choice Scarf Misdreavus and Choice Scarf Murkrow, but these situations are rare so Modest is the recommended ability. As for possible changes to the moveset, Hidden Power Grass can be used to 2HKO the standard RestTalk Chinchou on the switch in as it 2HKOs the standard RestTalk set with a Life Orb.</p>

    <p>Mantyke appreciates certain Pokemon removed before it sweeps, particularly Chinchou, Staryu, Lileep, and Ferroseed. Croagunk has the ability to beat all of these Pokemon and also lures out Hippopotas and Bronzor which Mantyke can set up on. Croagunk's ability Dry Skin also benefits from the rain. Diglett can switch in on a predicted Electric-type move and proceed to trap and kill Chinchou, but it must be wary of switching into Hydro Pump or Scald. Lileep beats Chinchou and Staryu, and can also set up Stealth Rock which can help Mantyke get some KOs. In fact, most Grass-types can handle Chinchou and Staryu, making them great partners for Mantyke.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Unfortunately, Mantyke's movepool is very shallow, so it doesn't have many other options available to it. An Agility set can be used, but this is generally outclassed by the Swift Swim as it lacks the power of rain-boosted Hydro Pump. However, it does have some advantages such as being able to beat Snover switch-ins, not taking away Mantyke's Speed boost, the ability to run Water Absorb as the ability, and the ability to hit Ferroseed with Hidden Power Fire. Mantyke could utilize Haze, which can help against boosting sweepers like Scraggy and Timburr, but it is hard pushed for a moveslot. A bulky set with Aqua Ring is an option, but the recovery is generally not large enough and it will be beaten by status moves.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Chinchou is undoubtedly the best Mantyke counter in the tier. It can take anything Mantyke throws at it, only worrying about the rare Life Orb-boosted Hidden Power Grass. It resists every other common attack, uses Rest to prevent Mantyke from defeating it with Toxic, and can KO Mantyke with any of its Electric STAB moves. Other Electric-types or Pokemon that use Electric moves give Mantyke a lot of trouble. Good examples are Magnemite and Staryu, who can both force it out rather easily with Thunderbolt. Ferroseed and Lileep are also troublesome to face. Ferroseed takes very little from any of Mantyke's moves and can set up entry hazards or use Leech Seed to slowly drain Mantyke's health. Lileep only fears Toxic or a Life Orb-boosted Ice Beam, but if you're not carrying those moves, it will take on Mantyke with ease. Both of these Pokemon can set up Stealth Rock which wears Mantyke down and discourages it from switching in too often. Many other bulky Pokemon such as Porygon or Frillish can also wear Mantyke down if it is not carrying Toxic.</p>

    <p>A good way to deal with Mantyke is to hit it on its weaker Defense stat. Pawniard and Murkrow will damage Mantyke severely with Sucker Punch if it is not running Substitute. Tirtouga can survive a hit with Sturdy and proceed to KO back with Stone Edge. If Mantyke hasn't had the chance to set up Rain Dance, Drilbur and Sandshrew can both outspeed and KO with Rock Slide. Although it is primarily a special attacker, Snover deserves a mention as it can switch into Hydro Pump from the Rain Dance set, remove rain thanks to Snow Warning, and 2HKO with Blizzard. It must be wary of Air Slash, however.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  19. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,476
    Thanks for the check Oglemi :)
    The only thing I didn't change was the sentence in OO about the advantages of running Agility>Swift Swim. I don't think you got what I was saying in the bit about Snover but that was because I had an unnecessary comma in there so it made the sentence difficult to understand. I just removed the comma, it should make sense now.

    This should be done now then...
  20. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    7,742

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)