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Mario Kart Mafia (NOC) END: VILLAGE WINS

Discussion in 'Circus Maximus' started by Eagle4, Jul 25, 2013.

  1. Celever

    Celever

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    This. Also someone in Zyphirex's slot with some kind of common sense?
  2. Jalmont

    Jalmont

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    that's kinda unfair to say and a bit rude to zyphirex - he/she is trying their best and while you may disagree with what they say, to ask them to sub out because they have no "common sense" is pretty rude imo

    anyways it's my birthday so this is me just kinda avoiding a prod so i won't get subbed out!

    i will say that claiming is rllly dumb and i'm not sure why everyone decided that was a good idea - walrein has reinforced that his "slot" is mafia due to that last set of reads - good summary though

    will read the last couple pages and come up w/ something soon

    sorry i suck!
  3. Aura Guardian

    Aura Guardian

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    Just read Walrein's post #542: Ok... wow... never occured to me... The whole HDD-Zyph thing is... if I had to pick one to lynch, I'd go with Zyph because he's melting my brain, but yeah, thanks for pointing that out. Not gonna vote just yet, though, because he's voted enough that I'd rather not risk someone else also voting him for pressure, then him hamering himself. Yeah, I'm thinking that since Solar Vapor is gone, I should give his eventual a sub a chance, remove my vote, and vote someone else... but not yet. Zyph will probably be my first vote after that, if needed, though.
  4. Eagle4

    Eagle4

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    We'll try to.
  5. Blackhawk11

    Blackhawk11 one on one

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    I'm definitely in favor of a Zyphirex lynch, especially now with a deadline. Shooting around accusations to get a reaction is one thing, making them completely baseless is another. The only reason I can see to spout nonsense like that is to appear active, and I don't like it.

    Also, let's keep the subs straight people.
    Empoof -> Blackhawk11 (start)
    T S O -> Marquis (start) -> Snaquaza
    FireMage -> cxinlee -> Zyphirex
    barty the beetle -> Acklow -> Walrein
    Solar Vapor -> ???
    Eagle4 and Celever like this.
  6. Walrein

    Walrein

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    happy birthday jalmont but please explain your shit whenever you can
    Celever likes this.
  7. Zyphirex

    Zyphirex

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    Alright, time for me to come clean. I will admit that being at L-3 and 3 votes ahead of anyone else with 3 days remaining until final lynch, I am feeling some pressure. To be honest, I wanted some RVS fun because I came in as a sub. I also wanted to get some good reads on people's reactions to my various claims (and I think I got a few good reads). Later today, I am going to give my actual reads list, in full, but before that, I should probably address the major issues.

    First, many of you are wondering about my interaction with Houndoomsday, specifically wondering why I backed off so abruptly. There are a few reasons for this. One, he wasn't budging. This wouldn't be a good reason without the other reasons. Second, I had run out of evidence against him. Third, with mounting popular support for Houndoomsday (bandwagoning much?) I felt the need to back down and pull out my vote before I got myself into a situation that would be difficult to mend. Houndoomsday still seems suspicious to me, but I have some better scum reads that I will post later.

    Next, I have to address another very scummy thing I saw involving Celever's role claim. Take a look at this.

    #465
    #474
    #474
    Seriously, this is just looks like a blatant scum cop out. Spiffy was one of the major people going after Celever for a claim. Spiffy has a fair amount of respect in this game, so Celever asks what Spiffy thinks first, and then he says, "Oh yeah, you're right!" Also, Celever was trying really hard to avoid role claiming, when he was very quick to push barty to role claim. Furthermore, any person who has ever had even minor experience reading a mafia game can come up with a bullshit power role claim like bodyguard.

    Speaking of barty, the barty/Acklow/Walrein role has constantly seemed suspicious, and when Celever was pushing for barty to role claim, Celever pretty suddenly went from "You must be scum" to "You must be Vigilante." The scum connection continues with part of Walrein's analysis:

    I am inclined to believe they are scum buddies. However, the last part of this post results in some conflicting analysis that I still haven't figured out. Hopefully, I will have this figured out by the time I post more analysis later today.

    #504
    Is everyone just going to ignore this? Yes, I know this and lampshading. And this is meta-lampshading. And this is meta-meta-lampshading. Does this melt your head, Celever and Aura Guardian? If I'm going to address the issue, I have to deal with lampshading. I haven't seen much about this in any posts. I assume everyone was distracted by the debate between Houndoomsday and I. I was hoping to draw more reactions from people and maybe get a reaction from Snaquaza or some relation speculation because I know a statement like this seems very scummy (more lampshading). In reality, Snaquaza seems very suspicious to me. Of course, his syntax makes it at times almost impossible to understand what he is saying (a problem that exists outside of mafia). He also has hardly posted at all, and I know that he has been online and reading mafia, as I have seen him viewing the thread and also seen him on showdown. He might be a bit distracted, but to me his behavior seems like he is a scum trying to lie low. This largely conflicts with Marquis's behavior (although they seem to have vastly different playstyles), but maybe by analyzing both of them I might be able to get a deeper read into the role. However, both Celever and Walrein have attacked Snaquaza's scumminess, so I am currently somewhat confused. Perhaps they are trying to bus a scum buddy?
    @Blackhawk11 @Spiffy and @Houndoomsday would you like to give your thoughts on this conjecture?

    Finally @Celever (Hidden to avoid cluttering the post with unnecessary things.)
    complaint (open)

    (This is a matter of personal business rather than a mafia thing.)
    Yes, I can, in fact, read English, and, no, I do not need to know the definition of the word "repeat." This should be quite obvious, when, before I say I don't understand what you mean, I say "He [You] has repeatedly voted for someone with the highest votecount." Perhaps it is you who does not understand English (implication can be difficult for non-native sp. When I say, "I don't know what you mean," it is implied that I would like you to clarify your statement.

    clar·i·fy
    /ˈklarəˌfī/
    Verb
    1. Make (a statement or situation) less confused and more clearly comprehensible.
    2. Melt (butter) in order to separate out the impurities.
    Synonyms
    clear up - clear - elucidate - explain - purify

    im·ply
    /imˈplī/
    Verb
    Strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something not expressly stated): "the report implies that two million jobs might be lost".
    Synonyms
    mean - hint - signify - involve - suggest - insinuate



    PS
    With this wall of text, I have fulfilled all of my promises.
  8. Zyphirex

    Zyphirex

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    EDIT: The response from Celever was actually post #477.
  9. Walrein

    Walrein

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    First off, I admitted that I had mostly skimmed the thread, and I missed that exchange between Spiffy and Celever. You're right, under most circumstances that would be a giant red flag emblazoned with LYNCH ME PLS

    HOWEVER

    Bodyguard is a very weak claim, and when bodyguard is claimed by the mafia, it actually helps the village more than it hurts them.

    If the mafia claims bodyguard, then they cannot kill the bodyguard. Simple as that. If they kill him, they out their claimant as basically guaranteed scum, condemning him to death, and for what? A bodyguard.

    All we have to do then is whittle down the mafia's numbers, and (ideally) once there is only one scum left, we can have the real bg claim and lynch the false claimant. Easy as pie.

    In addition, as sketchy as his claim seems, I'm uneasy about lynching a PR claim this early in the game, especially if we can find a better target through scumhunting. However, I would not be opposed to lynching Celever if there are no better options.

    With this new info, my read on Celever has changed to null-scum (I expect to be accused of being a flip-flopper because of this, but I completely missed that exchange between Spiffy and Celever, and it basically changes everything)

    I would like everyone's opinion on whether or not to leave Celever alive if we believe him to be false claiming.
  10. Spiffy

    Spiffy

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    I've already shared my piece on @Snaquaza so just look back at my posts to see what I think about him. @Zyphirex if you think is pretty scummy why not vote for him and apply more pressure onto him?

    Zyphirex like I said, people don't really have a reason not to believe Celever's claim or bodyguard since there has been no counter claim. It's possible that the real BG doesn't feel comfortable counterclaiming at the moment, but I said before I think that is highly unlikely and I am not going to lynch a claimed power role.

    Snaquaza seems to be like Celever 2.0 where everyone seems to be ignoring his scummy behavior. @Woodchuck @Blackhawk11 @Houndoomsday what do you guys think of Snaquaza?

    Something doesn't sit well with the sudden push for a Zyphirex lynch. @Metal Sonic just continues pushing for the lynch and hasn't once commented on Zyphirex's play which is a HUGE red flag and unacceptable. He hasn't made any relevant posts in awhile either. @Blackhawk11 I thought Zyphirex explained his case for his baseless accusation quite well, is this the only reason why you think he is scummy? And would you even be voting for him if his baseless accusation didn't include you?

    @Walrein there's no reason to lynch Celever now (never thought I'd say that...). If he survives a few nights that's a different story and at that point he should be looked into more.
  11. Zyphirex

    Zyphirex

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    Well, I considered voting for Snaquaza, but I was worried I would just look like a panicked scum looking to bandwagon someone to avoid getting lynched. Also neither @Metal Sonic nor @Snaquaza have even posted at all in a while, let alone posted with something relevant. I suppose I will Lynch Snaquaza. Now I will wait for the "OMG YOU BANDWAGONING NOOB SCUM" lynch mob. @Walrein Your statement, although fairly reasonable, doesn't remove my suspicions since you seem to be trying to just play to my statements to avoid suspicion. However, my belief in a Walrein-Celever connection has been slightly weakened. However, I still strongly believe that at least one of @Celever and Walrein is scum.
  12. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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    hm, Zyphirex, I'll respond soon, but I have seen you first did strange and then just do whatever the crows wants you to do
  13. Zyphirex

    Zyphirex

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    I have to say that that is quite the convoluted statement. I believe you are saying I acted quite weirdly, and then tried to shift my actions to fit the sentiment of the other players. I will respond to this statement, even though I have already explained my actions.

    I started weirdly because I wanted reactions, and I still needed to catch up on the game. I then shifted to a more reasonable approach to offer up the analysis and insight I gained.
  14. Walrein

    Walrein

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    Legitimate question for Snaquaza: is English your first language?
  15. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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  16. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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    oh and @Zyphirex, did I say that was my complete analyses, not really :/
  17. Houndoomsday

    Houndoomsday

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    actually zypherix i called you out in posts #505 and #508 about snazquaza

    and i had said before i thought snaquaza was scum in my latest scumreads, however i felt defending myself took priority over scumhunting and would benefit the village more
  18. Zyphirex

    Zyphirex

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    I know you called me out, but I don't believe anyone else did (Woodchuck or Celever might have mentioned it).
  19. Zyphirex

    Zyphirex

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    Also
    More vague power role claims? Does it never end?o_O
  20. Houndoomsday

    Houndoomsday

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    uh what? i guess i phrased it poorly- i was more interested in selfish self preservation then anything else at that point in time than claiming a PR, sorry if it came off that way
  21. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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    Okay just some small points


    @Zyphirex says he has posted bullshit, why would you ever post bullshit! Just to make ppl confused, yes it could be to apply pressure, but say that, bullshit is just mafia trying to make ppl confused and maybe trying to some to be lynched ppl.


    Zyphirex also says he isn’t repeating as it wouldn’t be the smartest, so he basically admits it isn’t smart as he did repeat? Anyway, throughout all time he has been in he has just been repeating things and been doing what people want him to do, which is pretty scummy because he does what to make him look villager but nothing extra out of himself.


    Zyphirex, about the Snaquaza is super town thing, everyone just said you were buddying with me as EVERYONE knows I’ve not been acting that pro town, even I know I didn’t play this game well and actually several people asked you to explain


    @Aura Guardian, you didn’t reveale your role but you gave a list of options which are all very powerful, why would you do that, saying you could save Celever was basically enough I’d guess and at the end of it you say again that you are not claiming one of them, which you basically did.


    @Spiffy, of course I made some worthless posts on page 20, I can search a lot of worthless posts of most players, but it weren’t only worthless posts for me, I’ve been one of the earlier Zyphirex suspects there too


    @Celever has made some worthless posts and some repeating as well as a lot of confusing ones. I might give examples tomorrow if you want, but it is now 2.44 and believe it or not it took me this night to make such a small thing, mostly as it was hard to find posts where actually something is said and not a non-saying post which pops up every once in a while, or a normal responding post of which I can’t really say things :/


    Anyway Unlynch Spiffy he has been making better posts lately and dropped the annoying issue between him and celever, lately he has been spotting most small things, easily which usually isn’t good for mafia to do

    But currently the possibility Zyphirex is mafia is higher than that Spiffy or Celever is mafia (kinda over too but it is kinda clear if anything happens between them again or if they are both still in later in the game and I think we can see later if Celever’s claim is true or not, but currently we can’t try it at this point, but maybe later we’ll get more clues if it is true or not) so Lynch Zyphirex

    I know more people already lynched him, but I was one of the earlier suspects.
  22. Aura Guardian

    Aura Guardian

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    @Snaquaza: The reason I gave all the options for what I am is so that the mafia will not know which one I am, and thus how they can bypass my ability to protect Celever. It could be they need to hook me. They could need to hook Celever. I could be bluffing to buy time. They could need to Safeguard me. Or Celever. Or they could need to do something else entirely. Which is the entire point of not revealing my role: at the VERY least, I might waste some of their resources for a night. Best-case, I might buy Celever enough time to keep the inspect alive when he claims.

    Also: I'm not claiming ANY ONE of the options I gave. I am claiming that one of them, or something comparable, is what I am. There is a difference, but I suppose the nuances of my syntax could cause that confusion. To repeat: I am SOMETHING that is probably on that list, but not saying which one.
  23. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck i am woodchuck
    is a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderatoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnus
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    I am against a Zyphirex lynch. Yes, his predecessors in his 'slot' have been rather scummy, but on Zyphirex himself I personally have a null read--but the most important thing is he is actually active, and with his posts and remarks he is forcing people to respond to accusations. Also, annoying Metal Sonic and provoking Celever into posting stupid snark like this seems valuable to me .trl
    Anyway, I've already given a rather neutral read on Zyphirex, and his lede post of "bullshit" may have not been well-advised, but I'd rather keep him alive a little longer and lynch someone less active / discussion-sparking. I don't think anyone can really read Zyphirex's initial posts as scummy unless they assume he is EXTREMELY noob mafia (bit of WIFOM here, but really, I don't think any mafia player with any amount of experience would make such strident claims backed by no reasoning and then lampshade it), and I don't think he has really displayed that in his later posts. Zyphirex might not be a very clean player, but I don't see him as a very good lynch target at this point.

    @Celever I have some questions for you regarding your claim and your reasoning behind it.

    This was obviously before you claimed bodyguard. Why would you, as bodyguard, be worried about a counterclaim? A mafia player counterclaiming a bodyguard is one of the dumbest things a mafia could do. What benefit would there be to a mafia counterclaim? The mafia would already know you are BG from your claim, so they could just nightkill you or at least force the reverse martyr / whatever AG has to target you. Counterclaiming BG would just out one of the mafia to no real gain. Given this scenario, why would you need to be concerned about a counterclaim? Please explain yourself, because the only logic that I can come with to explain your actions is that you are a mafia who softclaimed a power role to stall a vote, then claimed BG under slight pressure in order to make yourself into a non-viable lynch target. If you were really BG, and knew that you would claim BG all along, then you would never have been concerned about a counterclaim--but at the time of your post that I quoted, you weren't sure what you were going to claim yet.

    @Spiffy my thoughts on @Snaquaza :
    Snaquaza has been pretty useless this game, to be honest. I don't remember seeing much insight coming from his posts, and he was incredibly quick to claim vanillager. Snaquaza, why would you do this? There was no pressure on you to claim and it honestly looks like you were trying to go with the flow of the game without contributing much in the way of discussion. I also don't know why you thought it would be constructive to post bullet point reads on cxinlee after Zyphirex subbed in for him. You also basically bandwagoned the Zyphirex lynch with no coherent reasoning behind it, and your justification
    is basically "I bandwagoned because OMGUS". Unless you mean you suspected him earlier? Given that you suspected cxinlee and haven't given any reasons that I can see for suspecting Zyphirex other than the slot that he's been subbed into, I don't see that statement as very credible.

    This post looks like huge buddying with Zyphirex, but the fact of the matter is that I consider lynching someone less potentially useful/discussion-creating like Snaquaza would be more beneficial than lynching Zyphirex before any of us have the time to get an actual read on him. (Or her. I'd assume 'he', but I have no idea.) @Spiffy you asked why people seem to be not talking about Snaquaza. I haven't been addressing him in earlier posts because I've had difficulty getting an actual read on him, which is I suspect due to the general lack of content in all of his posts (as well as Snaquaza's disadvantage in getting across his message in English, I guess). If Snaquaza has been around for nearly the whole game, he should have more content to judge him by now.

    Of course, I haven't really been addressing Jalmont in my posts for the same reason (lack of content) but he hasn't been bandwagoning and foolishly claiming.

    tl;dr: I have concerns about Celever's claim, I want to avoid lynching Zyphirex due to his activity and my lack of opportunity to read him, and I find Snaquaza to be the most viable lynch target at this point. I will keep my vote on Celever until he can answer this post satisfactorily, though.
  24. Walrein

    Walrein

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    I also want to see @Snaquaza post a satisfactory defense. Holding off with my vote until he does.
  25. Blackhawk11

    Blackhawk11 one on one

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    Unvote Zyphirex
    I guess I'll follow along on this one. I think cxinlee was very scummy in the way he posted, but that could be noob syndrome. Zyph has been acting very foolishly (for lack of a better word), almost MS "#1 scumhunter" foolish. I suppose treating him in the #1 scumhunter fashion is appropriate, which would be wait and see. I agree that his recent posts seem to be pretty solid. I'm still suspicious of the players in the slot before him though, and I wouldn't mind a lynch on him today if it comes to that.

    As for @Snaquaza, http://smogon.com/forums/threads/mario-kart-mafia-noc-day-1.3486298/page-15#post-4789069]here[/url] is my previous read on him. I'm going to change this to Null, leaning scum. A little earlier I was rather suspicious of a Snaquaza/Zyphirex scumteam. Zyph seemed to be buddying snaquaza quite a bit, saying he was one of his strong town reads. Although I guess now Zyph has taken that statement back saying he was trying to get reactions, so that's a little bit strange. I think at the moment I could be a bit more easily convinced that Snaquaza's posts have been to make himself look active instead of trying to help the village, but I'm really just not sure. I suppose that I wouldn't mind a Snaquaza lynch either.

    I'm going to leave my vote on no one right now, just so that I can swing either way. I do not support a Celever lynch because I'm not going to lynch an non-countered, claimed BG (today), no matter how scummy I think he has been.

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