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Postgame Mario Kart Mafia (NOC) POSTGAME

Discussion in 'Circus Maximus' started by Eagle4, Sep 9, 2013.

  1. Eagle4

    Eagle4

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    [​IMG]

    Mario Kart Mafia Postgame


    Bowser’s Castle
    Toadstool Tavern
    Boo’s Graveyard
    Spreadsheet

    After participating in the Twilight Princess Mafia, I decided to give hosting my own mafia a go. I had the idea of a Mario Kart NOC beforehand, but now was the time to put it into practice. I searched IRC for a co-host, and theangryscientist was willing. Originally the game was going to have a plethora of different items and each course was gonna affect the game in some way, but tas and I cut down on that as it was getting a little too complicated. The bananas were originally an item needed for DK’s win condition, but that was scrapped as it would put the village at an unnecessary disadvantage. Other ideas which were scrapped were Mario having a fireball which would destroy any item the target had, a Bowser’s Shell which would work as a one-shot silence, and the Bob-omb having a much more complicated method of killing. (All I can say is that I’m glad that those ideas were got rid of)

    The “no hinting at your role name/character” rule was put in place for a good reason. Without it, the mafia would have a tough time claiming, as Mario, Luigi and co would be confirmed as true claims. On the subject of likes and dead-likes, they pose a new problem for NOC. I’m fine with allowing likes if the player who likes is still alive, as that offers a new way of “buddying” in NOC (if slightly minor), but I’m not too keen on dead-liking due to the way it can sway a person’s opinion. Yes the roles were randomised, aside from Metal Sonic who requested mafia, Celever who requested Yoshi or mafia, and Spiffy who was put in the mafia to balance Metal Sonic. About the “no deadlines day 1 and day 2” rule, I was advised to include it and I still stand by my decision to do so. The game was too small otherwise to get a long enough gameplay out of it. My mistake was not giving a deadline sooner, leading to activity pruning and Crux dishing out his own rule. :(

    Balance-wise, I personally don’t think tas and I did a good job. The village had many protection roles, a late-game role in a mayor, and an information role (two twins), but no inspector. The mafia had the classic Inspector/Hooker combo, which was used to good effect, as well as a Watcher AND a double kill. With a small amount of players and a setup which seemingly puts the mafia at an advantage (9 village vs 3 mafia), I think that a one-time double kill was all too much. Of course, the poor balance could’ve been prevented by correct use of self-guards, and everybody NOT claiming on D1!

    Day 1 was cringeworthy. Hate to say it, but the village did an awful job and put the mafia at a huge advantage. For some reason (probably lack of experience), players mass-claimed (and one was even a fake-claim). This narrowed down who “the inspector” was for the mafia, and also gave the mafia a good choice of kill(s) for the night. The mafia did well in influencing the thought “well if snaq is village, zyphirex must be mafia”. Tsk tsk.

    Night 1 was almost comical. Both players who had self-guards died. Celever chose not to self-guard because he thought he was getting protected by Aura Guardian, and Aura Guardian chose not to self-guard because he thought he was getting protected by Celever, the “Bodyguard”. Both did not account for a Hooker. Celever decided to Safeguard Aura Guardian so that he could get protection, but sadly that meant that Aura Guardian would also be safeguarded from the proper Bodyguard. In the end, both paid the price for false claiming. Mafia struck gold by inspecting Woodchuck, thus crippling the Bodyguard for the rest of the game via hooking. Of course, the options were narrowed down greatly due to the mass-claiming, so that’s another fault which the village can account for.

    --theangryscientist will talk about D2 and N2--

    Metal Sonic did a godknowswhat play D3. It was a huge, needless gamble which didn’t pay off and resulted in the mafia losing when they REALLY should’ve won. All he had to do was to say a “confirmed” mafia or even pose three village as mafia and the mafia would’ve won hands down. When that play went through I laughed so hard my ribs hurt. Ah well. At night, Woodchuck was killed as he was “confirmed village” and Walrein was inspected. Good, if obvious play by the mafia. Jalmont was then swiftly killed the next day, before heading into the final day…

    --theangryscientist will talk about the final day--

    Thought on the Players

    Woodchuck

    Woodchuck played extremely well. He stayed townie during the course of each day, rarely making a misplay. I was surprised when he Bodyguarded Houndoomsday D1 instead of Aura Guardian (as Aura Guardian was likely to be killed, due to Celever NOT actually being the Bodyguard and therefore Celever was mafia in Woodchuck’s eyes (I presume)), but Houndoomsday wasn’t a bad choice as he played very well and very town-like too. Woodchuck luckily didn’t counter-claim when Celever claimed Bodyguard, which would’ve screwed the town over even more.

    FireMage/cxinlee/Zyphirex

    I think it was fairly obvious that FireMage was very new to mafia. His understanding of the game limited the amount of posts he made and the content of his posts, leading to him coming under fire from many players who disliked the way he was playing. cxinlee subbed in, but was more or less the same, although he was getting scrutinised by Celever for a very silly reason (panicked on IRC). Sadly, his attempt to defend himself only led him to becoming more scummy. Zyphirex subbed in, and played a little better, but by that time I feel like a lot of people gave him little chance due to his previous subs. He had a lot of pc++ however, which resulted in Crux enforcing a rule upon the game. His fake claim of an item was extremely silly of him, and once he realised and decided to back-track, it was too late and he was put on the chopping board with no chance to redeem himself D2.


    barty the beetle/Acklow/Walrein


    barty the beetle can be forgiven for acting a little scummy due to the fact that he is relatively new. His posts weren’t exceptional, but I don’t really agree with the reasoning for his inevitable lynch… ah, but he wasn’t lynched in the end. After subbing out, Acklow saved him and the poor mafia felt hard done by (Spiffy in particular PMed me about how good a lynch barty the beetle wold’ve been, due to the fact that none of the three mafioso had joined in on the lynch). Acklow played decently before being subbed out. Walrein didn’t put in his best performance, but he did well in convincing Paperblade that Metal Sonic was scum, so credit for where credit’s due.

    Solar Vapor/Paperblade

    Solar Vapor kinda vanished after posting some clean, although lacklustre posts, resulting in me going on a witch hunt to find a replacement. 9 days of no hope was swiftly followed by the saving grace of Paperblade. It was obvious that Paper Blade wasn’t all too interested in the game, but he made some good plays, the most important one being lynching Metal Sonic rather than Walrein. I don’t believe he used the chat with Blackhawk11 as well as he could have, however.

    Celever

    Eek. Celever didn’t have a very good game to be brutally honest. He was taken advantage of by Spiffy which led to an OMGUS, and falseclaimed Bodyguard (after not checking his role. Sure, the role doesn’t state that he doesn’t protect people from kills, but the fact that he is a Safeguard Villager, as stated in the bottom, should be evidence enough. His false claim screwed the village over a little, and both Aura Guardian and Celever died due to it, when selfguarding would’ve been better.

    Houndoomsday

    Houndoomsday played extremely well for his first NOC. It was evident that he was village throughout the game; 20 pages in and not being voted for ONCE speaks for itself. I think it is safe to say that Houndoomsday was one of, if not the most obvious townie. His one misplay, however, meant that the village had lost their trump card. He claimed Banana Mayor for no particular reason other than cleaning himself, but I don’t think anybody needed to be convinced too much that Houndoomsday was clean. He picked Metal Sonic and Walrein to swipe at night, and they both had Golden Bananas, so kudos to him for getting the items he needed.

    Marquis/Snaquaza

    Haha man, Marquis was brilliant. I was a little pissed off at the village for not being able to see the blatant humour Marquis was showing during the RVS, which was yet another bad play they made during Day 1. He posted extremely well, and made it known to the village that he was clean. Sadly, he couldn’t stay all too long and so when Snaquaza subbed in, he was immediately targeted and pounced upon. I think that many people who lynched Snaquaza were oblivious to the fact that he had subbed in for Marquis. Nevertheless, Snaquaza deserved the lynch imo, as his plays were a little bland and he didn’t do enough to convince other people not to lynch him.

    Aura Guardian

    I was a little disappointed with AG’s play during Day 1. As he was one of the only experienced players on the village, I was hoping he would step up and try to prove himself as that, yet he was overshadowed a lot by up-and-coming stars such as Blackhawk11 and Houndoomsday. He didn’t post a lot, which bugged me, and his posts weren’t all too detailed. Nevertheless, he didn’t claim during the claiming spree of the village, and actually advised against it iirc. His gambit didn’t pay off, although that was partly due to the fact that Celever falseclaimed and AG decided to save him. What AG didn’t account for was a hook, and after hilarious events, AG died. I can see why he didn’t use the protection given to him, although it would probably be better to be safe rather than sorry. AG upon death did guess 2 of the three mafia though, so be proud of that!

    Blackhawk11

    Blackhawk had a good game. His play wasn’t outstanding, but it was decent enough to make sure that he was considered a villager for the majority of the time. He was very observant and made some solid posts, but the thing which intrigued me most was his thoughts that he posted in the twin chat, which were very clever. A shame then that it didn’t always translate to what he said in the thread! He wasn’t all too active, but the posts he made made up for that.

    Jalmont

    I can’t really comment all too much on Jalmont’s play because he didn’t post a lot. I had to prod him several times which resulted in a period of the game where he just posted to not be subbed out. He stayed under the radar, but that’s about it. I was a little frustrated that he wasn’t being pressured as much as he should have, and so for most of the game he was ignored and so wasn’t a viable lynch target. His play wasn’t exceptional by any means, but it did the job.

    Spiffy

    Spiffy was terrible bleurgh
    Spiffy impressed me with the way he played. He was quick out of the racing blocks and was one of the first few players to be “confirmed” villagers. Without Metal Sonic’s play, I doubt Spiffy would’ve ever gotten lynched. He did well in bussing Jalmont, and Metal Sonic to an extent, and so a connection could never be drawn between the trio. His posts, however, seemed largely superficial in my eyes, as it reminded me of AG’s and my play during Twilight Princess Mafia. He also buddied Metal Sonic a little too hard, although I didn’t pick up on that (it was mentioned on IRC a couple of times). He lead the mafia well, and was always the one who sent in the actions. I don’t think Spiffy was ever dreadfully inactive either.


    Metal Sonic


    Hmm. I think you know what I have to say about you, Metal Sonic. His needless gamble didn’t pay off and so he has to carry the burden of throwing the game away for the mafia, when the win was in sight. He requested to be mafia, so I made him mafia. I want to make one thing clear: I DID tell Metal Sonic “Don’t act like a retard or you’ll get godkilled”. This isn’t because Metal Sonic’s usual play is anti-town, but anti-game. His lack of substance in any of his posts makes him a useless player to include in the game, which was why he wasn’t chosen for the big Pokemon Mafia. I didn’t want a spot to go to waste on him, so I gave him the empty threat of godkilling him if he acted his usual self. Instead, we got a Metal Sonic which played well up until his inspector claim, although a little forgettable. He was generally seen as neutral-leaning-scum by many players, but I would expect no less from Metal Sonic <3

    Conclusion

    Hope you enjoyed the game! It was extremely fun organising and hosting it, and I hope it was the same at your end. What went on in this match was hilarious imo, with so many calamities swinging the probability of each faction winning. I believe I should’ve included an Inspector and taken out the Bob-omb to balance the game out, although I may be exaggerating it slightly due to the fact that the village played so terribly Day 1. Without that play, I think the game would’ve been a little more balanced.

    Sorry for the wait
    *Eagle4 glares at the angryscientist
    tas will be posting his thoughts on the game as well as the review of each player, D2, N2 and the final day in this thread.​
    cxinlee, Houndoomsday and Celever like this.
  2. Houndoomsday

    Houndoomsday

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    had a lot of fun playing, thanks for hosting!

    so yah claiming mayor was a mistake, and can be completely attributed to me being new. i really couldnt gauge at the time how people felt about me, and played it selfish by claiming right away.

    ms and walrein (barty i think actually) mentioned they had an item, ms gave it away with the color remark, so it wasnt hard to swipe.

    i felt like i had been putting consistent, if weak pressure on jalmont the entire game. ms i really couldnt judge clearly because he was buddying me a ton, which made it hard to get an unbiased perspective- i guess thats another thing i can chalk to being new. spiffy was someone i was having trouble getting a read on the entire game- idk why but i just couldnt find stuff to analyze. basically while i was happy about being able to not appear scummy, i cant scumread that well.

    day 1 i was following the saying "fake it til you make it". i came in with no clue what to do, and completely fucked up the rvs stuff because i had no clue at the time. a couple of rl days in i decided to read a couple of nocs- i dont remember which two but one was the one ms linked. it helped a TON and i think that was a turning point, even though i still really pushed for the wrong lynch.

    day 2 i think i was pressuring jalmont more and more, and then i think i got killed. claiming mayor was as i said before, a little newb panicking- i had been pushing for a lynch hard, to the point of tunneling and i wanted to clear myself.

    thoughts on the game setup: bom-omb felt weird but i guess it makes sense to balance or whatever. didnt really notice the twins all that much, village had lots of protection but we sucked at putting it into play. cant really say much because im new to mafia in general, so this is literally the first setup i played.
  3. Aura Guardian

    Aura Guardian

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    Thanks for hosting! Yeah, I should have used my self-guard the night I died, and had good reason. I did consider it. However, I started thinking about living for another day after the "inspect" claimed to buy yet another day. Real shame the hooker removed the WIFOM I threw at the mafia, but at least my role was a weaker one. ...Is there a mafia in which I DON'T lie, lately?

    I also saw some cringetastic stuff like the massclaimes, but at least everything turned out all right.

    GG everyone!
  4. Paperblade

    Paperblade

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    I don't think having an inspect is/was necessary in a game of this size
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
  5. Marquis

    Marquis

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    lol day 1

    nice postgame I enjoyed it
    YAYtears likes this.
  6. cxinlee

    cxinlee

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    Yeah I played really bad, and it was pretty good learning experience. Thanks a lot for hosting this game!
  7. Celever

    Celever

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    I was excited ever since my read started with "Eek.".

    But no this game was just amazing. A few users who I hadn't played with before didn't leave good first impressions *ahem*SPIFFY*ahem* and I didn't play too well. I found it really hard to get appropriate reads on Metal Sonic, so well done for that, but from my point of view the only person I knew was mafia was Spiffy. And I was right! :3. In both of my NoCs I've got an early scum (in the RNG NOC it was AG, in this game it's Spiffy) so listen to me imo! ;)

    I'm not sure on the quality of the village at all... I couldn't see Snaq or Zyph as scum really and my plan was to go with the Snaq lynch trusting the more experienced users and cry out D2 hoping AG would let me live, simply saving my one-use self-BG for N3.
  8. Acklow

    Acklow

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    Daytalk chat...wtf. This is what makes me worried that this game was a little too easy to play out for the scum (even though the twins had one too). All negativity aside, I am glad I could pull a clutch play and save the day for BtB/Me/Walrein.

    [​IMG]

    lol
    cxinlee, Houndoomsday and Celever like this.
  9. Walrein

    Walrein

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    Thus all is explained.

    I'll admit I really didn't get too involved in this game until the final days, but it was fun anyways, gg all.
  10. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    i am horribly sorry spiffy i bear all responsibility for not clutching the game when paperblade made an illegal play in irc chat

    no words can describe my honest regrets to you and jalmont; i was sure we were going to win the game as well

    and the misplay on Day 3 could have been avoided, but ultimately i did not claim the win once paperblade said "lynch walrein".

    i will stop talking now, just know that if i had been more assertive at that point we will be winners anyway.

    you are a winner spiffy.

    goodbye
  11. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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    @Eagle4, you even explained to me why there was no deadchat ._. and yes I know I played very badly :(
  12. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck i am woodchuck
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    loling

    i didn't protect ag (though i should have) because i thought the mafia would try to hit someone else and avoid outing celever as not a real bodyguard, although that obviously isn't valid in retrospect as celever wasn't mafia
    i'm pretty sure this game was characterized by celever nearly managing to throw the game away for the village by getting AG killed, getting himself killed, and almost getting me killed, but metal sonic's risk that he took ended up giving the village a shot at winning.

    final thoughts:
    [​IMG]
    celever is giving himself slightly too much credit??????
  13. Celever

    Celever

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    I over-hyped myself on purpose, I decided to try it for once! ^_^

    Also yes I know I am dumb :(
  14. Marquis

    Marquis

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    Had fun while I was here, please let me know if anyone's going to have another NOC. Would be enjoyable (as long as my fellow town members don't take everything at face value again!).
  15. zorbees

    zorbees
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    ET for the atari and ocarina of time are completely different games but ET still sucks
  16. FireMage

    FireMage Burnt out
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    Erm yeah, I feel my story re:why i quit should be here. Yes it was my first NOC game. Yes it was my first forum Mafia and no I didn't quit because it was too hard - I quit because of my (in)activity. >_>;

    an yes as far as first Mafia games go it felt like bad experience - despite it saying beginner on the tag - I felt like it was a witch hunt to get me out of the game asap because y'know I'm a beginner playing a beginner game.

    Edit @ Celevers post - Woops my bad. I swear it said beginner in the signups. I must have missed it.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
  17. Marquis

    Marquis

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    You can't play Ocarina of Time as multiplayer, download any updates, etc., but it's still great.

    My analogy was shit but zorbees' wasn't actually very helpful either.
    Celever likes this.
  18. zorbees

    zorbees
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    celever if being a mod was simple enough for someone of your intelligence to comprehend everything involved, you'd probably be a mod. now shut up about crux before i infract you
  19. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
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    Nobody makes beginners anymore anyway, and people being stuck in the beginner circuit forever (instead of accruing experience with people who are actually going to attempt to manipulate them) is unhelpful imo. I think the type of simpler mafia (not necessarily NOC) other sites play is more useful for learning basic skills. People have a bad habit of not making their beginner games simple enough anyway. Then it ends up imba

    You can't keep a steady stream up of games if people aren't making games. And approving bad and/or fundamentally flawed games (or allowing people who are totally new and likely to make frequent errors to host alone) is not a good way to keep the forum and playerbase health. Some of these games can be corrected by suggestions from the mods, some are just conceptually imbalanced.

    Also, the anti-spam rule in the NOC was actually my suggestion as that thread was getting incredibly spammed up and abused for pc++ (you posted nothing but a fullstop once as an example), which makes the game impossible to follow or catch up on for subs and/or players who aren't around 24/7. I specifically at the time used Paperblade as an example of someone who makes short posts that still contribute to the conversation. Someone like Paperblade isn't going to be punished for not meeting the word limit... the point is to encourage people to flesh out their thoughts more substantially and stay relevant, the post even stated that if you were actually contributing but not meeting the word limit then you wouldn't get punished... if you posted nothing but a fullstop anywhere else in the forum except maybe a forum in very specific contexts you would most likely get infracted for spamming.

    (also re. NOC beginners being hostile to beginners) I know this sounds like an old person talking about having to walk ten miles to school but when I started to play, standards didn't even exist. People just signed up, they either figured out how to play or they didn't. In beginner games there will always be beginners who have less experience / catch on more slowly than others and tbh in NOC newbies are almost always mislynched just by the nature of the game (especially with a lot of other beginners in it)
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
    Crux likes this.
  20. Houndoomsday

    Houndoomsday

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    i went into this with no experience whatsoever. id say a noc is MUCH friendlier to new players, because everything is out in the open. and i think i did halfway decent (no votes on me all game, even before i claimed mayor), with the only skill i was weak on was decent scumreads, which is a learned skill and i dont think 99% new players will have

    im having trouble articulating what i want to say but i personally feel nocs are easier to get into, partially because everything is out there for everyone to see, partially because you just are posting on a forum, not in irc chat, pms, etc etc.

    re: spam. that should be up to mods and honestly i like the wordcount rule. i was an asshole about it at first but honestly more writing rarely hurts and a double post should happen very rarely

    obviously i dont think my opinion holds much weight and im not going to post any more itt, but if i see a noc signup, id immediately enter, versus a non-noc where i /might/ sign up. nocs are much more entertaining to me
    Celever and Eagle4 like this.
  21. Marquis

    Marquis

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    As someone new to the site, I'd have to agree with that as I've not had time to build connections with other members of the community, and it's hard to get into an OC when you don't know how to talk to other players, especially when you don't even know them.
    Celever and Houndoomsday like this.
  22. Acklow

    Acklow

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    I say fuck it and play OC anyways. You won't get to learn how to talk to people on Smogon if you don't try.
  23. Eagle4

    Eagle4

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    You can learn how to talk to people on Smogon via NOC games. I understand that people (such as I did) might feel intimidated when playing using IRC and chatting to other members, which resulted in me giving away info, celever likewise, houndoomsday (sort of) as well. What's to say it can't happen again? NOC games are great for getting people introduced into the community. The same can't be said about OC games...
  24. zorbees

    zorbees
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    If you are having trouble with OC, you probably aren't trying hard enough. Just read a couple game threads / postgames to get the general gist of how to play. Read the smog articles. If you sign up without trying to learn how to play, you probably aren't going to do well. An analogy I'd make is doing a speedrun of any video game when you've never played that game before. Even if you're a quick learner, you're probably going to be outdone by people who have played that game before, read guides to find shortcuts, etc.
  25. Eagle4

    Eagle4

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    I'm talking more about the social side of things where yoou're talking to people you have never seen before and so you would feel intimidated by that. NOC is much better at easing you into the social side of the games as it isn't out front and in-your-face.

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