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NOC Matrix 12 NOC - Game Over, Mafia Wins
- Thread starter Thetwinmasters
- Start date
- Status
me
i dont appreciate my rotating postbit often enough
This is scummy because of the mindset it implies. Scum are the ones most concerned about the people remaining, scum are the most concerned with mislynches, scum are the most concerned with how long it is to LYLO, scum are the most concerned with stealth lynches. These are not things the average towny thinks about in a 7-2 situation. Town in this situation are more concerned about pushing their scum reads and trying to win the game before LYLO, not worrying about how many mislynches are left. Moreover its the equivalent of active lurking, he's posting things which appear helpful but don't actually do anything to gamesolve, particularly the last line which is going "hey this bad thing happened let's not do that Look At Me I'm So Town".
LightWolf
130 - This is a D1 standard for me: see something that catches my eye and try to get a followup on it. The difference between this game's D1 and the D1s of past games is I pushed myself to be a little less passive/form more initial reads than usual. Also, I don't understand what you mean by bad post numbers. Is it that I didn't link them? I didn't think I needed to since I pinged the players who made those posts.
137 - Answered and reanswered. Open to followup questions, if you have any.
150 - I agree with the second half of that conditional. We haven't really gone anywhere or done anything with the flips of D4 and D5.
Are there any specific points in 150 you want me to address?
169 - Trouble reading Josh, didn't get Texas's signaling until he explained it was signalling, and my reads on Jalmont and Hawkie had already been explained in 150.
522 - This is the part I got offended over, you reading me for bringing up something that goes beyond this game. It's not about Towncred. It's about players failing to read King in games because they consistently use tactics that result in failure and then blaming him for their own failed tactics. I'd protest the dead horse being beaten no matter what the venue.
874 - After a player has flipped, finding associations is more important than an iso which serves to build a case. The post directly after that is raw data on interactions and reads, serving the needed purpose. It wasn't perfect, but I tried to do something that amounts to more than pinging a guy about building a needless case.
And I am fully aware that it falls flat as a scumhunting method.
1131 - I should have taken my vote off after the claim. If I could have gotten my tunnel blinders off before then, I might've dropped it before the claim.
1349 - I had to address my paranoia that King was provoked intentionally, otherwise it wouldn't have left me be. So I took a serious look at the fights and came to the conclusions listed there, with some extra time taken on the language of the Josh section so I wouldn't insult him again. (And then he got insulted anyway.) These are very specific conditionals because they were the conditionals needed for me to consider the fights as coming from scum motivation.
Asek was my most likely suspect for provocation, because I consider her smart enough to make it look unintentional. I left it at "would have to be that smart" at that time because this was more about getting my paranoia to shut up than it was building a read or case on someone and my read on her had not yet changed.
Ullar, iirc, said he didn't want to get into fights. Thread search tool says yes as per 218. That plus wavering over subbing on grounds of existing fights led me to believe that he wouldn't do it intentionally unless egged on by his scumbuddies.
Josh was one of my Townreads, but very focused on doing things by his own methods, which wouldn't mesh well with the required teamwork for scum. Even a bus needs collaboration and Josh was acting like he wanted to solo carry. Thus I turned the conditional where he says "fuck you" off his scumbuddies and yolos to endgame into "scum gone rogue".
1678 - I thought the tone/attitude to be genuine since I had seen it from him in previous games. A few of my reads have been based in tone (Hawkie and ID are the current ones, with King in past reads).
1943 - Half of it letting it ride too long was being lazy, half of it was (and still is) being distracted by stuff in discord (Tabletop and the planning of FATE campaigns mostly, though I did check into the dndmaf Party server from time to time). As for the read itself, I was tunneling and Empoof's tone on intro pissed me off as a result.
Fort voting a dead player is my fault? How?
130 - This is a D1 standard for me: see something that catches my eye and try to get a followup on it. The difference between this game's D1 and the D1s of past games is I pushed myself to be a little less passive/form more initial reads than usual. Also, I don't understand what you mean by bad post numbers. Is it that I didn't link them? I didn't think I needed to since I pinged the players who made those posts.
137 - Answered and reanswered. Open to followup questions, if you have any.
150 - I agree with the second half of that conditional. We haven't really gone anywhere or done anything with the flips of D4 and D5.
Are there any specific points in 150 you want me to address?
169 - Trouble reading Josh, didn't get Texas's signaling until he explained it was signalling, and my reads on Jalmont and Hawkie had already been explained in 150.
522 - This is the part I got offended over, you reading me for bringing up something that goes beyond this game. It's not about Towncred. It's about players failing to read King in games because they consistently use tactics that result in failure and then blaming him for their own failed tactics. I'd protest the dead horse being beaten no matter what the venue.
874 - After a player has flipped, finding associations is more important than an iso which serves to build a case. The post directly after that is raw data on interactions and reads, serving the needed purpose. It wasn't perfect, but I tried to do something that amounts to more than pinging a guy about building a needless case.
And I am fully aware that it falls flat as a scumhunting method.
1131 - I should have taken my vote off after the claim. If I could have gotten my tunnel blinders off before then, I might've dropped it before the claim.
1349 - I had to address my paranoia that King was provoked intentionally, otherwise it wouldn't have left me be. So I took a serious look at the fights and came to the conclusions listed there, with some extra time taken on the language of the Josh section so I wouldn't insult him again. (And then he got insulted anyway.) These are very specific conditionals because they were the conditionals needed for me to consider the fights as coming from scum motivation.
Asek was my most likely suspect for provocation, because I consider her smart enough to make it look unintentional. I left it at "would have to be that smart" at that time because this was more about getting my paranoia to shut up than it was building a read or case on someone and my read on her had not yet changed.
Ullar, iirc, said he didn't want to get into fights. Thread search tool says yes as per 218. That plus wavering over subbing on grounds of existing fights led me to believe that he wouldn't do it intentionally unless egged on by his scumbuddies.
Josh was one of my Townreads, but very focused on doing things by his own methods, which wouldn't mesh well with the required teamwork for scum. Even a bus needs collaboration and Josh was acting like he wanted to solo carry. Thus I turned the conditional where he says "fuck you" off his scumbuddies and yolos to endgame into "scum gone rogue".
1678 - I thought the tone/attitude to be genuine since I had seen it from him in previous games. A few of my reads have been based in tone (Hawkie and ID are the current ones, with King in past reads).
1943 - Half of it letting it ride too long was being lazy, half of it was (and still is) being distracted by stuff in discord (Tabletop and the planning of FATE campaigns mostly, though I did check into the dndmaf Party server from time to time). As for the read itself, I was tunneling and Empoof's tone on intro pissed me off as a result.
Fort voting a dead player is my fault? How?
Votecount
Ironic Double (3): Fort Colorcastle, Hawkie, Texas Cloverleaf L-2
Empoof (1): Empoof
KnightsofCydonia (1): Yeti
Not voting (4): Lightwolf, KnightsofCydonia, Ironic Double, Moodycloud
Ironic Double (3): Fort Colorcastle, Hawkie, Texas Cloverleaf L-2
Empoof (1): Empoof
KnightsofCydonia (1): Yeti
Not voting (4): Lightwolf, KnightsofCydonia, Ironic Double, Moodycloud
Tomorrow i think?
Twin's daystart post says the 27th, so two days from now.
lmao literally everyone is against me
i feel like a survivor and everyone here is a mafia man trying to kill the lone survivor 3:
i feel like a survivor and everyone here is a mafia man trying to kill the lone survivor 3:
if i were mafia, who would be my scum buddies? its pretty evident no one likes me and is willing to tunnel me to death
What am I, chopped liver? I don't think you're sadistic enough to enjoy hard bussing.
thats kinda the most likely case though, your scumbuddy would stick out if they weren't dtf with your lynch
meh yellow school buses make mafia interesting but i dont actually have a scumbuddy lel
I should make a reads post then reread+run isos and update list but I can't rn
I'm probably the most obvious teammate to Id and I'm town so yeah this lynch and the way it had support for like 3 consecutive days feel bad
At the moment I would want to lynch in Knights/Fort/Yeti (didn't want to risk the Yeti one before flipping one of the other 2 but it does resolve the question of "did scum rescue Ullar d1")
I'm worried that Id flips town and then I'm still without a clue on Knights/Fort/Yeti/Texas
Lylo can be lost to a stealth and switching votes at 5 minutes to deadline lets mafia get away with doing it
I'll be at a birthday party tomorrow so expect to hear close to nothing from me in the next 24 hours
I'm probably the most obvious teammate to Id and I'm town so yeah this lynch and the way it had support for like 3 consecutive days feel bad
At the moment I would want to lynch in Knights/Fort/Yeti (didn't want to risk the Yeti one before flipping one of the other 2 but it does resolve the question of "did scum rescue Ullar d1")
I'm worried that Id flips town and then I'm still without a clue on Knights/Fort/Yeti/Texas
Lylo can be lost to a stealth and switching votes at 5 minutes to deadline lets mafia get away with doing it
I'll be at a birthday party tomorrow so expect to hear close to nothing from me in the next 24 hours
these posts do not help me townread you
You were reading back the thread, and you were caught on semantics with no comment on actually interesting interactions(I'm near 100% Walrein vs Hawkie had happened). As I said you went after Josh being Josh, Texas for being weird and Jalmont(later more on jalmont) for his opinion on scumhunting. These were all easy targets with no substance, just Josh voted someone with no explanation, Texas is doing some kind of satanic ritual to summon a town read. Jalmont was the most justifiable because you can view his sentiments as anti town.
Well only thing I have to add is, why you let jalmont off after he literally answered with Dont Know to both questions.
It was mostly a frustrated jab at you getting caught up on baits as well.
Find it odd you are not acknowledging the note I added to 169, which was "Former Hope 2.0". Obviously you didn't read my early Former Hope stuff, because my problem and what you are not touching on here is, your reasonings were fluff it wasn't about you not having explained some of the reads. Josh is null, pointless read for the time, and you continue to be hung up on the Texas thing. Yes I can understand you didn't get it, but for someone dead set to ASK QUESTIONS, I do not understand why you didn't about this.
Two things, would you not say also protest the dead horse being beaten because you know there is treasure burried under it and the sooner people stop beating it, the sooner you can get to it? You keep making it sound like my argument is, you are only protecting King for towncred. That isn't my argument is. My argument is, you come in have the easy out of protecting King, which is what you'd do anyways, while earning town cred. What the problem is, is that you did nothing else. You just stood up for King, with no suggestions as to where to take the lynch, no votes on any of the counterwagons. I mean tell me this, IF you are scum and King is getting bullshit lynched for a reason such as this, would you do everything in your might to prevent it because of your moral compass, or just do the minimum because you disagree with it but him being lynched benefits you and your scum buddy is one of the counter wagons. I'd argue most would do the latter, and to me it certainly looks like you didn't engage the lynch fully.
Associations are VERY easily gleanable from ISOs, they are the PERFECT vehicle to convey what the dead scum has said about others. Might just be disagreement on how to scumhunt, but the fact you are against it, then make a huge, but pointless and substanceless list of reads Jalmont made(which I'm near 100% sure is the reason people mix up how hard people scumread jalmont and vice versa), which not only disincentifizes exact looks into it, but fails to paint any context and slightness of reads.
So yeah from my point of view, it is damaging to scumhunting, and a fairly easy thing to do without having to disclose any personal opinions. I get that you don't think it's a scumhunting method, but all you had to do to make it one, is maybe put your own opinions in it too???
Nothing here
In retrospect I find it more odd you talk about Ullar without realising he wasn't actually subbed in yet for most of his King stuff. It's null, but really that's just a continued fight for anything after he got subbed in, hard to consider anything but null too. Otherwise this one was less about me suspecting you, than my individual comments on the 3 you bought up.
That's not what you claimed though, you claim was his distrust, not that his distrust sounded honest. Also again, you are pretending scum players are horrid and can't pretend they don't know what people's alignment are in their posts. This a clash of scumhunting preferences again, but also it's super easy to fake town reads on the fly if all you have to say is, THEY WRITE HONEST.
For the Fort thing, you citing the Chainsaw defense has been the deciding factor why he voted Jalmont, he literally says this in the post. Also that line was put in as joke obviously, if you read Fort's post again I'd hope you'd have gotten it. As for the chainsaw dropping, no I'm not buying it, not following up on it that day is one thing, but you had been pressing for it for 2 ingame days, like 6 real life ones, with no actual attempt at shubaka's life other than chainsaw. No attempts at extra pressure, no attempts at engaging empoof directly after the subbing with anything but the chainsaw. It's just such an easy ass small thing to get hung up on. Yes I know I get hung up on small things, but I specifically do to find more that supports those small things.
And I am fully aware that it falls flat as a scumhunting method.
hahahahahaha
Reading Back - There was no reading back. It was D1. Reading back is what you do in later days, not right when the tells are being made. Or do you mean the reading I do to catch up after I've been sleeping?
Jalmont - My weakest point in scumhunting is reading scraps. Jalmont was giving me nothing.
FH 2.0 - There was a small something, but still something. I was actually proud of my perceived progress mid-D1. D1 is usually me dropping an RQS, then hanging back and thonkang while asking the occasional followup and/or pointing out something small that doesn't sit right with me. Casting any votes on D1 is in and of itself a big thing for me. I wanted my D1 to be better than usual.
Texas - Didn't ask about Texas? I was waiting for him to respond to the question at the time of 169.
Dead Horse - The treasure is King becomes an easier read and a better player in future games.
I've been pretty disengaged in this game, there's no doubt about that. It comes from a mixture of splitting my attentions and my own personal failings.
ISOs - I was trying to remove personal bias from it because they're compilations of raw data, not actual isos. If I put my own personal spin on raw data, it'd mislead people into following my opinions rather than forming thier own.
Ullar - I know he wasn't subbed in yet with a couple of those posts, but I consider the pre-sub posts a factor in reading his motivations since they concern his mental health. This is a game, and no game is worth damaging your mental health, so yes, I think that he wouldn't willingly pick fights with other players knowing that it's not healthy to do so. Ergo to be coming from a scum motivation, active provocation attempts would most likely be done with prompting from scummates. I can only surmise what the scumteam is thinking based on the information available in the pubgame, so when running Ullar through the logic of "what would it take for this player to provoke King for scum benefit", I took relevant pre-sub posts into account.
Moody - I thought it was honest because there was meta behind it.
Scum are people trying to pass for Town by day and using death to create future advantages by night, by my experience.
Fort - I don't know what's going on in that crazy bastard's head. Confusing people is something I've been trying to avoid.
Jalmont - My weakest point in scumhunting is reading scraps. Jalmont was giving me nothing.
FH 2.0 - There was a small something, but still something. I was actually proud of my perceived progress mid-D1. D1 is usually me dropping an RQS, then hanging back and thonkang while asking the occasional followup and/or pointing out something small that doesn't sit right with me. Casting any votes on D1 is in and of itself a big thing for me. I wanted my D1 to be better than usual.
Texas - Didn't ask about Texas? I was waiting for him to respond to the question at the time of 169.
Dead Horse - The treasure is King becomes an easier read and a better player in future games.
I've been pretty disengaged in this game, there's no doubt about that. It comes from a mixture of splitting my attentions and my own personal failings.
ISOs - I was trying to remove personal bias from it because they're compilations of raw data, not actual isos. If I put my own personal spin on raw data, it'd mislead people into following my opinions rather than forming thier own.
Ullar - I know he wasn't subbed in yet with a couple of those posts, but I consider the pre-sub posts a factor in reading his motivations since they concern his mental health. This is a game, and no game is worth damaging your mental health, so yes, I think that he wouldn't willingly pick fights with other players knowing that it's not healthy to do so. Ergo to be coming from a scum motivation, active provocation attempts would most likely be done with prompting from scummates. I can only surmise what the scumteam is thinking based on the information available in the pubgame, so when running Ullar through the logic of "what would it take for this player to provoke King for scum benefit", I took relevant pre-sub posts into account.
Moody - I thought it was honest because there was meta behind it.
Scum are people trying to pass for Town by day and using death to create future advantages by night, by my experience.
Fort - I don't know what's going on in that crazy bastard's head. Confusing people is something I've been trying to avoid.
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