What exactly is Rain Stall?
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Mediocre-Mons (VENOMOTH BANNED!)
- Thread starter Snaquaza
- Start date
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
using rain abilities like rain dish and dry skin to stall in the rain.
I think rain offense or rain balance is the way to go due to the nature of limited rain in this gen. It'll be difficult stalling out Pokemon with Parasect when rain only lasts 5 or 8 turns.
Offensive: Seaking, Poliwrath, Swanna, Golduck, Basculin, Anorith, Frogadier, Pikachu, Plusle (Minun outclassed :()
Defensive: Phione, Parasect
Supportive: Klefki, Phione, Sableye
There might be more, but I can't think of them atm
Last edited:
Anorith :O
Here's a short list of mons I've been brainstorming. It may not be perfect but it sounds good in theory
Water Abusers
Poliwrath
Golduck
Water Mons (that appreciate the rain for offense)
Frogadier
Basculin
Seadra
Rain Setters
Klefki
Sabeleye
Other things cool in rain
Shelmet
It has the highest attack in the tier (95), together with a decent Speed Stat that gets boosted by Swift Swim. It'll give rain team some variety and the ability to handle Grass types.
Testing Anorith now and it's great - it's essentially a rain based exca (great attack, likes it's respective weather, and spins).
Rain is looking good. (not sure if it can beat sun, but still good)
My attempt at rain balance, currently 1400 and climbing.
Klefki sets up spikes, T-waves stuff and sets up 8 turn rain. Hazards are always useful to wear teams down.
Krokorok sets up SR and can taunt slower Pokemon to prevent set up. Specially defensive + Eviolite lets it handle Xatu pretty well so it can usually get rocks up. Its ground typing is useful, providing the team with an electric immunity.
Sableye spinblocks, knocks off items, spreads status and is just a general annoyance especially when you pair it with Klefki.
Golduck is the first rain abuser. It is, in my opinion, the best swift swimmer after the now banned Kingdra. Choice Specs, rain boosted attacks hit HARD.
Swanna is the second rain abuser and also a backup rain setter. Its useful flying typing provides a nice ground immunity and lets it take care of grass types.
Abomasnow provides the team with an electric resist and additional water resist. It is the revenge killer + late game sweeper. It may seem counterproductive using Snow Warning Abomasnow when also using rain but it actually works really well since you can use it for better weather control. It can check opposing swift swimmers & chlorophyll mons. You can also send this in when you only have a few turns of rain left, get up hail, switch to a rain setter, and then set up a fresh 5 / 8 turn rain again.
Abomasnow @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Blizzard
- Ice Shard
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake
Klefki @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Foul Play
Golduck @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Swanna @ Life Orb
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Scald
- Rain Dance
- Rest
Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover
Krokorok @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Blizzard
- Ice Shard
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake
Klefki @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Foul Play
Golduck @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Swanna @ Life Orb
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Scald
- Rain Dance
- Rest
Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpD / 16 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover
Krokorok @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt
Klefki sets up spikes, T-waves stuff and sets up 8 turn rain. Hazards are always useful to wear teams down.
Krokorok sets up SR and can taunt slower Pokemon to prevent set up. Specially defensive + Eviolite lets it handle Xatu pretty well so it can usually get rocks up. Its ground typing is useful, providing the team with an electric immunity.
Sableye spinblocks, knocks off items, spreads status and is just a general annoyance especially when you pair it with Klefki.
Golduck is the first rain abuser. It is, in my opinion, the best swift swimmer after the now banned Kingdra. Choice Specs, rain boosted attacks hit HARD.
Swanna is the second rain abuser and also a backup rain setter. Its useful flying typing provides a nice ground immunity and lets it take care of grass types.
Abomasnow provides the team with an electric resist and additional water resist. It is the revenge killer + late game sweeper. It may seem counterproductive using Snow Warning Abomasnow when also using rain but it actually works really well since you can use it for better weather control. It can check opposing swift swimmers & chlorophyll mons. You can also send this in when you only have a few turns of rain left, get up hail, switch to a rain setter, and then set up a fresh 5 / 8 turn rain again.
I've also been thinking about this for a while - is rain or Sun more viable?
Personally I'm leaning Sun because it is automatic weather and Weepinbell kinda shuts down rain.
Personally I'm leaning Sun because it is automatic weather and Weepinbell kinda shuts down rain.
I don't think sun is as good as rain. While Vulpix is an automatic sun inducer, it can't deliver or take a hit. Chlorophyll is not as abusable as Swift Swim because sun doesn't boost the STAB of Grass types. Golduck and Poliwrath can use their Ice type attacks to beat Weepinbell, and I don't need to explain Swanna, so I don't see how it shuts down rain. Overall, I think rain is better, but if you have a lot of success using sun, please show me some replays.
Oh yeah I completely forgot about Swanna lol. Then yeah, Rain > Sun my bad
Basculin @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Superpower
Probably one of the best offencive sweepers and the fastest (outside unburden Slurpuff) plus if it's knocked off and can live, it has aqua jet, unless you wanna be mixed and go for ice beam
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Superpower
Probably one of the best offencive sweepers and the fastest (outside unburden Slurpuff) plus if it's knocked off and can live, it has aqua jet, unless you wanna be mixed and go for ice beam
Let's diverge a little from Rain and talk Tailwind. Many pokemon in the tier learn this awesome, but I hardly see it on the ladder. Having TWind to outspeed big threats is super cool, having Tailwind allows you to run Modest Nidoqueen without fearing opposing Nidoqueens, allows Abomasnow to have the speed of ScarfAboma and the ability to change moves, Raticate to have more space to kill more things, the same goes for Xatu and Chatot.
Another cool thing is the Pokemon that learn TWind, my favs are Golbat, Fletchinder, Xatu and Murkrow, all are really good and decent.
What are your thoughts on TWind?
Another cool thing is the Pokemon that learn TWind, my favs are Golbat, Fletchinder, Xatu and Murkrow, all are really good and decent.
What are your thoughts on TWind?
It still has the same problem it has in every meta; it only lasts three turns.
While it sucks that it only lasts 3 turns, I may make a Tailwind team w/ Fletchlinder and Murkrow (both with priority). It looks really cool in concept, but I'm not sure how well it works in practice.
Some pokemon that are very threatening for most teams don't seem to have much use on the ladder. Specs or even Eviolite Gothorita completely demolishes stall, while Eelektrik is one of the most anti-meta pokes, being able to come on Nidoqueen, Swanna, and the specially defensive variant can often check really big threats such as Xatu, Basculin or any electric-type.
I've been testing out a Scarf Gothorita set on the ladder and it is working really well. Unlike Specs or Eviolite Gothorita, Scarf allows it to compensate for its mediocre speed and fare decently against both offense and stall.
Gothorita @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick
A Timid nature with 220 Speed EVs allows Gothorita to outspeed all unboosted Pokemon in the tier as well as non +Spe nature Scarf Abomasnow. It doesn't hit as hard as Modest but getting the jump on Pokemon such as Basculin and Swanna is huge. The moves can be tailored for your team; Energy Ball can be used if you need to get rid of Quagsire for your Fletchinder to sweep, for example.
It is a huge annoyance for stall since it can just come in on any wall, trick it a scarf and incapacitate it for the rest of the match.
Against offense, it has trouble switching in freely due to its frailty but if you are able to get a free switch then it can heavily damage something or cripple it with trick, allowing a potential set-up with another one of your Pokemon. It is also able to win in a 1 on 1 match up against a huge number of threats. Although it isn't that bulky it can still take attacks on the special side quite well and some weaker physical attacks.
Some Calcs to demonstrate its offensive / defensive capabilities:
Gothorita @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick
A Timid nature with 220 Speed EVs allows Gothorita to outspeed all unboosted Pokemon in the tier as well as non +Spe nature Scarf Abomasnow. It doesn't hit as hard as Modest but getting the jump on Pokemon such as Basculin and Swanna is huge. The moves can be tailored for your team; Energy Ball can be used if you need to get rid of Quagsire for your Fletchinder to sweep, for example.
It is a huge annoyance for stall since it can just come in on any wall, trick it a scarf and incapacitate it for the rest of the match.
Against offense, it has trouble switching in freely due to its frailty but if you are able to get a free switch then it can heavily damage something or cripple it with trick, allowing a potential set-up with another one of your Pokemon. It is also able to win in a 1 on 1 match up against a huge number of threats. Although it isn't that bulky it can still take attacks on the special side quite well and some weaker physical attacks.
Some Calcs to demonstrate its offensive / defensive capabilities:
252 SpA Gothorita Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Nidoqueen: 234-276 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gothorita Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Basculin: 220-260 (78 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gothorita Thunderbolt vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 182-216 (58.8 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gothorita Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Swanna: 396-468 (136 - 160.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Gothorita Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 208-248 (64.7 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Sludge Wave vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Gothorita: 231-273 (85.5 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Xatu Heat Wave vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Gothorita: 125-147 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Swanna Scald vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Gothorita in Rain: 224-265 (82.9 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Gothorita: 181-214 (67 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Gothorita: 178-211 (65.9 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252 SpA Gothorita Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Basculin: 220-260 (78 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gothorita Thunderbolt vs. 152 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 182-216 (58.8 - 69.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gothorita Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Swanna: 396-468 (136 - 160.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Gothorita Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 208-248 (64.7 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Sludge Wave vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Gothorita: 231-273 (85.5 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Xatu Heat Wave vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Gothorita: 125-147 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Swanna Scald vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Gothorita in Rain: 224-265 (82.9 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Gothorita: 181-214 (67 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Gothorita: 178-211 (65.9 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
MacChaeger
Guest
POOR MAN'S VENOMOTH: MASQUERAIN?
Masquerain @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252: SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Bug Buzz
- Baton Pass
- Quiver Dance
I've seen an alternative set that focuses on bulk, but I like the more offensive route with Masquerain as a lead. There are plenty of common walls and counters to this, and it can be hard to set up, but if you do, you have one heck of a sweeper. And those walls I mentioned? Baton Pass away to something better, because you definitely can. Unless you're facing Prankster Taunt, a Gale Wings Fletchinder, Imposter Ditto (which is even more viable in this meta), or something fast with a Scarf like Gabite, nothing can catch/stop you. Here are some calculations to get you thinking:
+1 Life Orb Bug Buzz vs.
+1 Life Orb Hydro Pump vs.
Also I only read through page 6 because it's 1 AM so if this set is already here, then I apologize.
P.S. In case you couldn't tell, this Masquerain really hates sun, so do not try and set up in it, and Baton Pass immediately if you see Vulpix. Also, this thing is actually terrible because it can't switch-in on anything, and anything that can outspeed it at +1 can probably OHKO with a super-effective physical attack (I'm looking at you, Fletchinder).
P.P.S Here's a defensive lead/defogger if you really want it:
Masquerain @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252: Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz / Hydro Pump / Air Slash
- Quiver Dance / Defog / Roost
- Baton Pass / Defog / Roost
- Roost / Defog / Giga Drain / Sticky Web
Masquerain @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252: SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Bug Buzz
- Baton Pass
- Quiver Dance
I've seen an alternative set that focuses on bulk, but I like the more offensive route with Masquerain as a lead. There are plenty of common walls and counters to this, and it can be hard to set up, but if you do, you have one heck of a sweeper. And those walls I mentioned? Baton Pass away to something better, because you definitely can. Unless you're facing Prankster Taunt, a Gale Wings Fletchinder, Imposter Ditto (which is even more viable in this meta), or something fast with a Scarf like Gabite, nothing can catch/stop you. Here are some calculations to get you thinking:
+1 Life Orb Bug Buzz vs.
- 252 HP / 252+ Sdef Malamar with Assault Vest: 140.9 - 265.9% (OHKO)
- 188 HP / 68 Sdef Slowpoke with Eviolite after a Calm Mind: 98 - 116.5% (87.5% chance to 2HKO)
- 4 HP / 0 Sdef Xatu: 111.7 - 131.9% (OHKO)
- 4 HP / 0 Sdef Weepinbell: 156.2 - 183.8% (OHKO) [In sun, Weepinbell outspeeds Masquerain and has a 87.5% to OHKO with Weather Ball]
- 252 HP / 252+ Sdef Sableye: 70.3 - 83.2% (2HKO after leftovers)
- 252 HP / 252+ Sdef Lunatone: 106.6 - 125.5% (OHKO)
- 252 HP / 252+ Sdef Solrock: 124.7 - 147.3% (OHKO)
- 252 HP / 0 Sdef Tropius: 63.4 - 75.1% (2HKO if Harvest doesn't activate)
- 252 HP / 252+ Sdef Unaware Quagsire: 36 - 42.8% (96.4% chance to 3HKO after leftovers)
- 252 HP / 252+ Sdef Ferroseed with Eviolite: 41.4 - 49.3% (3HKO)
- 252 HP / 252+ Sdef Bronzor with Eviolite: 38 - 45.2% (3HKO)
- 252 HP / 252+ Sdef Clamperl with Eviolite: 56.9 - 67.5% (2HKO)
- 252 HP / 252+ Sdef Lickitung with Eviolite: 34.6 - 40.6 (3HKO)
+1 Life Orb Hydro Pump vs.
- 252 HP / 4 SDef Nidoqueen: 84.8 - 100% (6.3% chance to OHKO)
- 252 HP / 4 SDef Klefki outside of sun: 65 - 76.7% (2HKO)
- 32 HP / 224 SDef Mawile outside of sun: 86.7 - 102.4% (18.8% chance to OHKO)
- 4 HP / 0 SDef Delphox: 126.3 - 149.6% (OHKO)
Also I only read through page 6 because it's 1 AM so if this set is already here, then I apologize.
P.S. In case you couldn't tell, this Masquerain really hates sun, so do not try and set up in it, and Baton Pass immediately if you see Vulpix. Also, this thing is actually terrible because it can't switch-in on anything, and anything that can outspeed it at +1 can probably OHKO with a super-effective physical attack (I'm looking at you, Fletchinder).
P.P.S Here's a defensive lead/defogger if you really want it:
Masquerain @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252: Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz / Hydro Pump / Air Slash
- Quiver Dance / Defog / Roost
- Baton Pass / Defog / Roost
- Roost / Defog / Giga Drain / Sticky Web
Aaaaaaaaaand pikachu just got surf back.