Gen 6 Mega Salamence

[EmblemLord]

try running some calcs with double edge > return. the power spike when using adamant > jolly is far more apparent then; +1 adamant de KOs phydef yveltal and 252 HP arceus after rocks while jolly mence has a far slimmer chance of doing so. you also get a 25% shot to KO lugia. if you opt to use return then jolly is indeed the way to go.

Unless I missed something, the chance to OHKO Lugia after SR is actually around 19%. This is only if it switches in when you use Double Edge at +1. Otherwise, it's a 2HKO because of Leftovers.

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega-Salamence Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Lugia: 271-321 (65.3 - 77.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I agree that the nearly guaranteed OHKO on Defensive Yveltal and max-HP Arceus after SR is a valid reason to run Adamant DE.

I've tried both but still prefer Return over Double Edge because the recoil damage is significant. DE breaks through walls easier, but it can also shorten your sweep by putting you within KO range earlier to priority.

 

[Bingbing]

Random question: Isn't Salamence incapable of having both Refresh and Dragon Dance? Refresh was only available if you purified the Salamence from XD, but Dragon Dance is only available as an egg move.

EDIT: Nm, apparently Refresh Mence knows DD off the bat

 

[Vengeance417]

I've tried both but still prefer Return over Double Edge because the recoil damage is significant. DE breaks through walls easier, but it can also shorten your sweep by putting you within KO range earlier to priority.

Essentially the reason why I don't run DE on my Mence. While the wallbreaking power is there, you need to be aware of the fact that a lot of the walls in Ubers have really high HP stats, so you'll be taking A LOT of recoil damage when you use DE on them, which, as you said, makes you more and more vulnerable to priority, and it's quite the momentum-killer when you're forced to Roost because your HP is extremely low, essentially giving E-Killer a free turn to SD if predictions are made correctly.

 

[Prinz]

I'd add a bulkier DD set in the OP. The moves should be Return / Frustation, Roost, DD and EQ. Honestly I can't see a set with Refresh instead of EQ working too well in Ubers because Mence really needs EQ to hit Arceus Rock, Arceus Steel, Diancie, Klefki, Heatran, Metagross and Aegislash to make some examples. I mean, I think that there are too many mons that would wall Mence if it wouldn't run EQ, which I consider infact pretty mandatory on Mence.

I also think that Double Edge should be the first option in the offensive DD set. It's just so strong, and it allows Mence to hit very hard even if it's running a Jolly nature. To make some examples, it almost always kills Xerneas from full at +1, it OHKOs bulky Primal Kyogre, has some chance to kill Extreme Killer Arceus from full, has some chance to OHKO Physical Bulky Yveltal after Stealth Rock and does around 60% to Max HP Max Defense (no one use that kind of EV spread on it, is just to help you understand how hard it hits) Primal Groudon. I know that the recoil is always really annoying, but Double Edge is just so strong that I guess that the recoil is acceptable.

Some calcs:

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 417-492 (99.5 - 117.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 354-417 (92.9 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 213-252 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 307-363 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Kyogre: 448-528 (111.1 - 131%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[ApplepieFTW]

I'd add a bulkier DD set in the OP. The moves should be Return / Frustation, Roost, DD and EQ. Honestly I can't see a set with Refresh instead of EQ working too well in Ubers because Mence really needs EQ to hit Arceus Rock, Arceus Steel, Diancie, Klefki, Heatran, Metagross and Aegislash to make some examples. I mean, I think that there are too many mons that would wall Mence if it wouldn't run EQ, which I consider infact pretty mandatory on Mence.

I also think that Double Edge should be the first option in the offensive DD set. It's just so strong, and it allows Mence to hit very hard even if it's running a Jolly nature. To make some examples, it almost always kills Xerneas from full at +1, it OHKOs bulky Primal Kyogre, has some chance to kill Extreme Killer Arceus from full, has some chance to OHKO Physical Bulky Yveltal after Stealth Rock and does around 60% to Max HP Max Defense (no one use that kind of EV spread on it, is just to help you understand how hard it hits) Primal Groudon. I know that the recoil is always really annoying, but Double Edge is just so strong that I guess that the recoil is acceptable.

Some calcs:

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 417-492 (99.5 - 117.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 354-417 (92.9 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon: 213-252 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 307-363 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Kyogre: 448-528 (111.1 - 131%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Arceus steel is just bad, double edge does a tooooon do mega diancie anyway, refresh does just as well vs key as eq, heatran isnt that good either and very uncommon (all xern run focus blast, groudon bait, groudon can set rock too; it only checks the latis tbf), you set up to +6 on aegis with refresh, and metagross can only touch you if it has ice punch. Refresh checks ho-oh which is just amazing as ho-oh checks are rare, and it helps vs things like arceus ghost too.

 

[Prinz]

Well, I guess that for offensive sets EQ is always better than Refresh as you aren't spamming Double Edge all day long and EQ is useful to beat weakened things without you take DE's recoil and that's cool I guess. Also it helps a bit to break Stall teams as Arceus Rock is really common on them for what I have seen. As for bulkier ones yeh you are probably right that Refresh is something to consider over EQ but I wouldn't say it's better than it overall. Sure, it helps against Ho-Oh that is super annoying but being able to destroy for instance things like Diancie, Metagross (even if it hasn't Ice Punch, Meteor Smash still does a ton), Klefki, Heatran (which isn't super common but even super uncommon, I guess), Arceus Rock is really nice. It also does a bit more than Return on PDon, if you need that more damage. I am not saying that EQ is the best for bulky DD Mence though, I guess that if you need so much an Ho-Oh check is p nice, but I also think that the ability to OHKO most of the things that resist to the flying STAB and mostly important the ability to 2HKO with +1 EQ Arceus Rock, which is supposed to be one of the best Salamence check is huge.

 

[Bl4ck0uT]

Sorry for the necro, but ApplepieFTW how exactly does defensive Mence check Ho-Oh? Being resistant to Sacred fire and removing burns with refresh is nice, but doesn't Brave Bird 2HKO?

 

[Freeroamer]

It can switch in and proceed to either Roost stall or kill it outright, if you still had your intimidate Brave Bird won't 2HKO, while even without it defensive Mence takes ~60% meaning Ho-oh will get worn down extremely quickly from recoil. An uninvested Return does 50% meaning that Salamence will pretty much always win unless it gets crit as it comes in on Stealth Rock or something.