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Meloetta (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by ScraftyIsTheBest, Oct 14, 2012.

  1. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Screw Water Druddigon
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    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/648.shtml

    [Overview]

    <p>Meloetta is quite an interesting Pokemon. At first, it seems like your generic Psychic-type, with high Special Attack and Special Defense. However, Meloetta does have some tools to set it apart from the rest of the crowd. The first thing one notices is that it has a very cool signature move in Relic Song. This can be played very interestingly, alternating between formes to play mind games with your opponent, thanks to its Pirouette forme having a Fighting typing and base 128 Attack. Meloetta also sports a Normal-typing, which means Chandelure, Cofagrigus, and Mismagius have little to hurt it. It also sports a very wide movepool including Calm Mind, Psychic, Thunderbolt, and much more, allowing it to run many sets.</p>

    <p>Meloetta does have its flaws, though. It has a disappointing base 90 Speed stat, which means it gets outrun frequently. It also has a Dark-type weakness, which mean Pursuit and Sucker Punch spell doom for it, and has to set up or run Choice Specs to be a threat. Nonetheless, Meloetta is a very diverse and unpredictable Pokemon and is not to be taken lightly.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Psychic / Psyshock
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Focus Blast / Thunderbolt / Grass Knot
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Calm Mind is easily Meloetta's best set thanks to its extremely high Special Attack and Special Defense stats. To stand out from other Calm Mind users, Meloetta boasts a Ghost-type immunity, which allows it to take on Cofagrigus and Chandelure with almost complete impunity. Meloetta also sports the best special stats of all Calm Mind users in UU, allowing it to use Calm Mind very effectively.</p>

    <p>Calm Mind is the boosting move of choice, providing bulk and firepower. Psychic provides STAB and hits Fighting-types for heavy damage. Psyshock is also usable to get around Snorlax. Shadow Ball is the main coverage move, hitting Mew and Azelf for serious damage. Focus Blast is the final coverage move, hitting Dark-types such as Weavile and Krookodile for heavy damage. Thunderbolt is a more accurate alternative and hits Sableye and Honchkrow hard. Do note, however, that if one decides to use Thunderbolt, Krookodile will be an issue. Grass Knot is also a decent coverage move to defeat Rhyperior, Swampert, and Krookodile. Houndoom and Bisharp will, however, pose a threat if Grass Knot is chosen.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Timid nature is preferred to get past threats such as Timid Chandelure and Nidoking. A Life Orb is the preferred item on this set, because it allows Meloetta to hit hard right off the bat if setting up is too risky. Leftovers is also a viable option if being able to stay in longer is preferred over extra firepower.</p>

    <p>For this set to succeed, the ability to eliminate Dark-types is very important. A Fighting-type such as Mienshao is immensely helpful for eliminating threats such as Bisharp, Krookodile, and Weavile. Crobat is also a useful teammate to get around Heracross, who commonly runs Scarf and can KO with Megahorn. Houndoom or Chandelure are also helpful to stop Sableye, which can Taunt Meloetta and burn its other teammates with Will-O-Wisp.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Psychic
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt
    move 4: U-turn / Trick
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set opts for immediate power at the cost of not being able to switch moves. Thanks to Meloetta's high base 128 Special Attack, it can utilize a Choice Specs very effectively, and its wide movepool and power set it apart from other users of the item. With its amazing coverage, Normal typing to take on Cofagrigus and Chandelure, and great all round stats, it easily stands out from Mew and Azelf.</p>

    <p>Psychic is the primary STAB move, hitting numerous targets for good damage thanks to its power. Focus Blast is a powerful coverage move, smashing Steel-types, such as Registeel and Empoleon, as well as Snorlax for much needed damage. Shadow Ball provides great coverage with Psychic and Focus Blast and can seriously hurt Mew and Azelf, as well as denting Slowbro. Thunderbolt is also a very good coverage move, hitting Slowbro harder than Shadow Ball and also hurting Suicune, who otherwise can take all of Meloetta's other attacks. Finally, Trick is a very useful move to cripple Pokemon such as Bronzong and Porygon2, which become instantly useless due to losing bulk and being locked into a single move. U-turn is also useful if scouting and keeping offensive pressure is needed over crippling targets.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Timid nature is chosen to outspeed Pokemon such as Timid Nidoking and Chandelure, as Meloetta does not need the additional power due to the boost provided by Choice Specs. A Choice Specs is the chosen item for the ability to hit hard right off the bat, which is the main purpose of this set. Grass Knot is also a usable coverage move over Shadow Ball if Swampert is an issue.</p>

    <p>Due to this set not setting up at all, Honchkrow and Bisharp demolish it completely with Sucker Punch, as Meloetta will always be attacking. Additionally, Pursuit users such as Weavile and Krookodile can trap Meloetta if it is locked into Psychic. Due to this, a Fighting-type like Heracross or Mienshao is an important teammate to handle the Dark-types that stand in Meloetta's path. As Choice Scarf Heracross blows through Meloetta with Megahorn, Crobat is also a potent ally to defeat it.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Substitute + Calm Mind
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Calm Mind
    move 3: Psychic / Psyshock
    move 4: Hyper Voice / Thunderbolt / Focus Blast
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Modest
    evs: 172 HP / 232 SpA / 104 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes advantage of Meloetta's power and bulk to utilize two moves that work well together: Substitute and Calm Mind. Thanks to Meloetta's great stats, Meloetta can use Substitute effectively while setting up free Calm Minds behind a reliable shield. Its massive base 128 Special Defense, high Special Attack, and Normal / Psychic typing set it apart from Raikou, its main competitor for this role.</p>

    <p>Substitute and Calm Mind are, of course, the cruxes of the set, aiming to allow Meloetta to freely boost while not taking damage. Psychic or Psyshock provide much needed STAB, with a choice between either more power or the ability to get past Snorlax and opposing Calm Mind users. Hyper Voice is an option in the final slot for a secondary STAB and provides decent neutral coverage, as well as 2HKOing Umbreon after two Calm Minds. Thunderbolt is also a decent option if Psychic is the chosen STAB, getting around Suicune as well as hurting Sableye. Focus Blast is also a usable coverage move to hurt Steel-types such as Registeel, while still denting Snorlax, but be aware that it is very inaccurate.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The selected EV spread invests 172 EVs into HP to allow enough HP to build very sturdy Substitutes, while providing enough Special Attack to hit hard with. 104 EVs are invested into Speed to provide Meloetta with enough Speed to outpace Honchkrow, the biggest threat to Meloetta. Leftovers is the chosen item to recover HP to allow more Substitutes. A Modest nature is chosen to attain needed 2HKO's on targets such as Umbreon and Snorlax, and this set does not require Speed.</p>

    <p>As this set heavily relies on Substitute, Cinccino beats it with ease, as it can smash through any Substitute that Meloetta puts up with Tail Slap. Fast Dark-types like Weavile and Krookodile can defeat Meloetta with their Dark STAB before it gets going. For this reason, Heracross or Mienshao are important teammates, as their ability to hit these Pokemon very hard is greatly appreciated. A Ground-type like Nidoqueen or Krookodile can deal with Raikou to allow Meloetta to avoid a Calm Mind war.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Thanks to Meloetta's diverse movepool, it has many options at its disposal. Relic Song is a very cool move that provides a lot of surprise factor, the ability to switch into its Pirouette forme, which is strong and speedy as well as sporting a Fighting-type, is very interesting. This allows Meloetta to utilize Close Combat to hurt its normal counters otherwise. With this, a mixed set of Relic Song, Close Combat, Psychic, and Thunderbolt, is very possible and can build up pressure with Spikes support, but this is generally inferior to Meloetta's other sets. However, if you really love keeping up offensive pressure, this set can perform well. That aside, Meloetta also has other offensive options such as Energy Ball, which can be used to hurt Swampert but is generally inferior to Grass Knot and Thunderbolt. It also has Thunder if you're running manual rain, but it's horribly inaccurate and is inferior to Thunderbolt in general. Return could be used if you're brave enough to use Pirouette forme Meloetta, but it doesn't provides decent coverage. Meloetta also has a decent physical movepool consisting of Zen Headbutt, Stone Edge, the elemental punches, and Shadow Claw, but you're better off using special sets. A specially defensive set with options such as Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Perish Song is possible, but it's outclassed by Snorlax, which has Whirlwind to phaze and recovery in Rest. Finally, Charge Beam is an option for troll factor, with Serene Grace raising its Special Attack boosting chance to 100%, but you're better off running Calm Mind for boosting.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Meloetta absolutely hates the presence of Dark-types; Krookodile, Weavile, and Zoroark can all outspeed and KO it, while Honchkrow and Bisharp can take it out with Sucker Punch. Meloetta is also hindered by the presence of Escavalier, which can take Meloetta's onslaughts pretty well and retaliate with a powerful Megahorn or Pursuit. If Meloetta is not using Shadow Ball, Cresselia walls it to no end and can cripple it with Thunder Wave or even set up its own Calm Minds. Snorlax is a thorn in Meloetta's side as well, with its huge special bulk allowing it to survive numerous hits and phaze with Whirlwind, undoing all of Meloetta's Calm Mind boosts. Heracross can smash Meloetta with Megahorn, which also grants it a free Attack boost, but it must be wary of Psychic. Togekiss can take many onslaughts from Meloetta and retaliate with Thunder Wave and Air Slash. Finally, thanks to Meloetta's middling Defense stat, powerful physical attackers such as Darmanitan and Mienshao can hit it very hard with their attacks.</p>
  2. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    I'll look more into this, since I haven't really tested Meloetta in UU, but I think that Sub CM should run enough speed to outpace Timid Nidoking. But that's just my opinion.

    Edit: Also mention that any Ghost Pokemon demolishes any Meloetta trying to change into its piroutette forme, since the transformation only works if Relic Song hits the target.
  3. EonADS

    EonADS

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    ^ Not to mention Jolly Heracross; CB and SD sets are common enough to warrant it. Unfortunately, that requires a Timid nature. Offensive CM wants Timid > Modest for the same reasons, not to mention that Timid Chandelure outspeeds Modest Aria forme.
  4. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Screw Water Druddigon
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    I'll add the mention of Ghost-types shutting down Relic Song variants.

    And I don't know really, 90 Speed is rather dissapointing and is still outpaced by Krookodile and Mienshao, as well as others. Not sure if Speed EV's are worth it. But I'll try it out and see.
  5. kniteowl

    kniteowl

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    Thunderbolt might be worth a slash in the 4th slot on the sub calm mind set. It has pretty good coverage and better accuracy then Focus Blast. Sure you're walled by Krookodile but with Focus Blast, you get walled by sableye & spiritomb. Claydol isn't a problem because with the right defensive investment it will never break your subs and subs blocks any attempt at stalling you out with toxic.

    Psyshock is also worth a slash to get pass Snorelax but Psychic is a solid choice especially for the 20% chance of lower Snorelax's SpD which has happened to me more often then I expected. Although if you use Psyshock in combination with thunderbolt, Rhyperior and Physical Tangrowth can come in and ruin your day.
  6. mrb

    mrb

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    I'm kind of iffy about the bulky CM set, it seems totally outclassed by offensive CM. Meloetta is not nearly bulky enough on the physical side (which most people try to hit) to run a bulky CM set.

    Also, take out the Specially Defensive set. Meloetta should always be offensive. Almost everything it can do as a wall is better accomplished by Snorlax. You could mention in OO that Meloetta has cool support moves like Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Perish Song.

    And mention that SubCM Meloetta can safely set up on one of Relic Song's biggest counters, Cofagrigus. Also, definitely mention that SubCM Meloetta can run 76 SDef EVs so that 0 SAtk Togekiss can't break Meloetta's Subs with Air Slash.
  7. kokoloko

    kokoloko supersmooth
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    Am I the only one who thinks the only thing Meloetta should be doing is Calm Minding? Relic Song is a shitty setup move that is more of a waste of a turn than anything else... you might as well be Swords Dancing with Mew or... anything else. Let's not get caught up in the whole "we gotta make use of the other forme" thing, because it's honestly not good at all.

    I don't know about the rest of QC, but I won't be approving anything other than SubCM and Offensive CM (and the only reason for that is because we /have/ to give it an analysis, but with Mew around I really would never use Meloetta, period).
  8. mrb

    mrb

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    Yeah, I agree that Calm Mind is Meloetta's way to go if you want to make the best of it. But, people do like running Relic Song for late game cleaning. Although it is a fairly unreliable set up move, Meloetta-P can work with proper support. Although, I do agree that there are a lot of better cleaners (like Mew or Weavile) out there.
  9. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Screw Water Druddigon
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    Lol

    While I do agree that Relic Song is shit, it's still Meloetta's most popular set, so I think it could be worth a mention. (And on a side note, the only reason Meloetta should be used over Mew is to provide an answer to OTR Cofa, but even Mandibuzz is a better answer than Meloetta.)

    Anyways, I really don't know which sets to keep (Specially Defensive, will, however, be deleted). I'll leave this open to debate (On a side note, I wouldn't be impressed if this thing drops again, because there are better options than it, period. I'm only doing this since this thing "needs" a UU Analysis since she's in the UU Tier)
  10. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    Meloetta @ Leftovers
    Modest
    172 HP / 232 SpA / 104 Spe
    -Substitute
    -Calm Mind
    -Psyshock / Psychic
    -Hyper Voice / Thunderbolt / Focus Blast

    You lose the ability to make 101 subs (when was the last time you were seismic tossed -__-) and a little bit of power in exchange for the ability to outspeed a very large number of slower threatening mons (Honchkrow, Togekiss, defensive Zapdos, offensive Nidoqueen, and others) which allows you to set up a substitute or a calm mind before they status or severely damage you. Make sure you don't run Thunderbolt with Psyshock. I hate focus blast - note hyper voice 2hkos umbreon at +2.

    Slow SubCM has some advantages (like more bulk and power and the ability to set up on...registeel? And whatever else uses seismic toss...) but you have serious issues with Togekiss / Zapdos / Honchkrow / whatever just switching in on your CM or even your Sub and proceeding to put you in a difficult situation. Just my experience with this.
  11. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    As mentioned before the main reason to use Meloetta over Mew would be if your offensive team was weak to OTR Cofa (and maybe if you are worried about Scarf Chandelure too), which Melo counters perfectly, especially with Lefties. Personally my favourite set is the CM + 3 attacks with lefties, Timid and max/max Speed and SpA. Psyshock / Psychic, Shadow Ball, Tbolt / Grass Knot. The first 2 moves are obvious, as is Tbolt, and Grass Knot is awesome for any bulky water, and also for Rhyperior.
  12. kniteowl

    kniteowl

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    Meloetta learns Heal Bell form Move Tutors should be mentioned in Other Options, it's a generally useful move if you want Meloetta to be a cleric

    I figured it would do well on a Bulky Calm Mind set if you're not worried about coverage and don't have the raw power to take down walls like Porygon2 attempting to stall you out with toxic. It would also work on a Defensive set too but... both sets seem to be pretty medicore at best.

    Charge beam should be mentioned in Other Options too (For the troll factor lol), because Serene Grace gives it a 100% chance of raising your SpA, would probably work best on a choice set but's out classed by calm mind because you have to take into account ground types and electric immune abilities like Volt Absorb, Motor Drive & Lightning Rod.

    Too bad Meloetta isn't a Electric type, or else it might be worth using on a choice scarf set, it'd work a lot like a Special attacking version of Moxie but with only one move lol, but at least to have the option to cripple pokemon with trick.
  13. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Yes, I do think a purely Meloetta-P set is bad, but how is Relic Mixed in UU? After all, it IS something Meloetta can do and nothing else can. I guess not being able to spam Thunder with impunity kind of makes a bit less attractive...
  14. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest Screw Water Druddigon
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    Alright, I made said changes. And due to previous comments Bulky CM was outright deleted.
  15. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    ok, i've been using meloetta semi-extensively, here are my thoughts:

    CM sets are fantastic. It's advantages over Mew include; normal typing (hi cofagrigus) and an incredible 128 SpA / 128 SpD stat combo. Not trying to bad mouth Mew here, but there are some very good reasons as to why you would want to use CM Meloetta over Mew. Psyshock should get the main slash on the SubCM set (as you're not using Focus Blast primarily and you need it for Snorlax). Don't forget to change your AC (you still mention that Modest is the preferred nature).

    The relic sweeper sets are mediocre. The mixed relic sweeper can stay. The pure physical sweeper set has got to go though. It just "didn't work" while I was testing it. You need to waste a turn in order to become a physical attacker, but that turn is too costly for Meloetta. It was a nice surprise the first time I used relic song, but my opponent just immediately switched into their physical wall/fighting before i could get meloetta moving. At least the special set can mess up physical walls and special walls on the fly (though it should be stated that this isn't "incredible" as you're forced to use relic song for it to work...)
  16. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    Alright, deleted the Physical Relic Song set as requested. Also, made comments on the Mixed Relic Song set and thus the skeleton is complete and ready for checks.
  17. Worldtour

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    If its complete don't forget to add a [QC 0/3] over the WIP part.
  18. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    Oh yes, thanks for reminding me. I had forgotten. I did it with Golurk but forgot with this :P
  19. kokoloko

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    Meloetta @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - U-turn
    - Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt / Grass Knot

    I'm testing this. Seems promising so far because it hits like a fucking truck while still having bulk and the ability to counter Cofagrigus (which differentiates it from Azelf). So... lets hold off on this until I do some more testing, I will probably ask you to add it--and if you're diligent you might want to test the set as well :)

    Also you still need to get rid of that mixed Relic Song set. Its just bad. I briefly considered just slapping Close Combat on an All-Out Attacker set, but then found out that neutral natured 4 Atk LO CC only does 56% - 65.9% to 0/4 Snorlax. I didn't bother doing calcs versus Umbreon and bulkier Snorlax spreads.
  20. Elevator Music

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    [05:20:08] <LonelyNess> the first set here
    [05:20:12] <LonelyNess> has inefficient EVs
    [05:20:15] <LonelyNess> can you edit them?
    [05:20:25] <LonelyNess> the given spread yields 350 SpA and 266 Spe
    [05:20:29] <LonelyNess> but ify ou change to am odest nature
    [05:20:30] <LonelyNess> and go
    [05:20:46] <LonelyNess> 172 HP / 136 SpA / 200 Spe
    [05:20:49] <LonelyNess> you get the same amount of speed

    so ya, i changed them...
  21. shrang

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    Okay, I don't play UU much, but can someone explain why Relic Mixed is bad? As the writer of Meloetta's OU analysis, I feel obliged to defend its use. While I can see that there's no Drizzle in UU (making Thunder a bit less appealing), one huge thing in UU that makes Relic Mixed more favourable is the fact that Spikes are much easier to keep down. If you're using Relic Mixed as a setup sweeper, you're using it wrong. Very wrong. The idea behind the set is to alternate between formes, because since the counters of one forme is generally weak to the other one, if you stay in the more advantageous forme, you will force a lot of switches and keep momentum. For example, your opponent has both Slowbro and Snorlax on their team. You use Relic Song as Snorlax comes in, turning into Meloetta-P. Snorlax can't take Meloetta-P at all, going back to Slowbro, which gets hit by Relic Song, and is now facing Meloetta-A, which can destroy it with Thunderbolt. It's a bit like a one-Pokemon VoltTurn. With hazards, this can be very nasty. Obviously, it is pretty prediction reliant, but personally, I think this is the one thing that Meloetta can do that no other Pokemon in the game can.
  22. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    I completely agree with Shrang. I have been used the mixed Relic set in UU with great success.
    The beauty of this set in UU is that since entry hazard damage racks up much more quickly than OU, once her counters are weakened you don't even need to bother swithcing forms - making this set less prediction-reliant than it is in OU.
    Thunder is actually pretty usable in a rain dance team and UU happens to have great Rain Dance users and abusers such as Tornadus and Kingdra.

    I think the pure Aria forme sets, while not bad, are a waste of her potential, especially when in UU you could use something like Bronzong (for support) or Azelf (for offense).
  23. ScraftyIsTheBest

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    Yeah, I agree with you two. Mixed Relic Song is a very solid set, because you can use Relic Song to switch between the forms, as Psychic and Fighting have very good synergy together, you have to use it to alternate between the formes to put pressure on the opponent. So since it's really good, I'm keeping Relic Mixed on the analysis.

    Also, Aria Meloetta is decent already. Special sets with CM are fantastic.

    Anyways, speaking of Specs Meloetta, I've tried it and it's really good. It 2HKO'd Porygon2 with Focus Blast and OHKO'd others, so I think it's worth putting on the analysis. I'll see though.
  24. DestinyUnknown

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    If you're facing Snorlax and Slowbro and using Spikes I would much rather be using Calm Mind + Psyshock + (Hyper Voice, Thunderbolt, whatever you want) which is able to defeat defensive cores /bulky stuff in general as well as relic song but without requiring superb prediction... (btw Snorlax+Slowbro is just an example)

    Or hell, I'd even use Mew / Azelf...
  25. kokoloko

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    Yeah honestly there are much better ways of accomplishing what that set accomplishes. Something that is that prediction reliant and needs Spikes to work (which are much harder to lay down in UU than in OU, btw) is simply not a good investment.

    You still need to remove it. Add the Specs set, btw. I've tested it some more and its consistently good enough to warrant a set.

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