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Meloetta

Discussion in 'Dream World Analyses' started by SJCrew, Mar 24, 2012.

  1. SJCrew

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    [​IMG][​IMG]

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/648.shtml

    [Overview]

    <p> In her Aria forme, Meloetta is a moderate threat at best, packing a high Special Attack stat and amazing special bulk fortified by its 100 Base HP. On the downside, she possesses little that her fellow Psychic-types would envy, save for Close Combat, a Ghost immunity, and the ability to transform mid-battle.</p>

    <p>“Wait, she can transform?”</p>

    <p>Yes, you read that right: transform. While Meloetta may not be all that threatening at first, one successful use of Relic Song transforms her from a beautiful singer into a dangerous dancer, which increases her Speed and Attack stats dramatically, and trades in her STAB on Psychic for STAB on Close Combat. Her Pirouette forme can destroy much of the Dream World metagame with its extremely powerful Close Combat and wide selection of useful coverage moves.</p>

    <p>All of these qualities, promising as they may seem, still add up to slightly less than the sum of their parts. Unfortunately, Meloetta is mostly outclassed as an offensive and defensive Psychic-type by the likes of Mew, Reuniclus, and Jirachi. Worse still, she is just as limited by her gimmick as she is enhanced; Relic Song is a weak move and denies her both a useful moveslot and the ability to use Choice items effectively in Pirouette forme. With such limitations hampering her effectiveness, her niche is very small, but nonetheless valuable.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Attacker
    move 1: Relic Song
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: Thunderbolt / Thunder
    move 4: Psychic / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive
    evs: 224 Att / 84 SpA / 200 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    The apex of Meloetta's potential lies within this set, where the bulky powerhouse traits of her Aria forme and fast offensive nature of her Pirouette forme amalgamate into one oddly effective mixed attacker. The first thing to recognize about Meloetta is that she will always start off in her Aria forme, and thus requires a free turn in order to use Relic Song and transform. The term 'free' is used loosely here, since while Relic Song only amounts to 75 Base Power, Meloetta receives a STAB boost from it, and a 20% chance to put the defending Pokemon to sleep, courtesy of Serene Grace. If given the opportunity, she can transform by finishing off a slower, weakened foe, or one that cannot significantly damage her secondary forme. A timely transformation allows her to easily endure the Dark- and Bug-type attacks aimed at her from the likes of Scizor and Tyranitar. Until then, Psychic suffices as the primary attack of choice for Aria forme, allowing her to check the slower Fighting-types of OU, such as Conkeldurr, Breloom, and Toxicroak.

    Once she is in her Pirouette forme, the bulk of her damage will come from Close Combat, Arceus's gift to the Fighting-types of the fourth generation and beyond. Anything left standing after a bout with her will take heavy damage from her coverage moves. Thunder combats Skarmory, Gyarados, and Jellicent in either forme, whereas Hidden Power Ice eliminates Salamence, Dragonite, Gliscor, and Garchomp. Thunderbolt is useful in the event one plans to use Meloetta outside of Rain and the accuracy drop is undesirable, but Pirouette forme will miss the ability to 2HKO Jellicent and OHKO Skarmory after Stealth Rock damage.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    It is best not to stray too far from the EVs provided, as each point of investment has a specific purpose in mind. 224 EVs in Attack grant Meloetta's Close Combat roughly the same same power as Lucario's in Pirouette forme, and 192 Speed EVs are designed to outpace Tornadus-T after transformation, whereas Aria forme can outspeed up to Adamant Lucario and Jolly Gyarados. The leftover 84 EVs go into Special Attack, giving its Psychic just enough power to OHKO max HP Machamp and Conkeldurr without fail after Stealth Rock damage.

    This type of Meloetta is very versatile, can fit on most offensive teams, and performs well against all playstyles. Rainy weather is where it really shines, allowing it to trade in its Thunderbolt for Thunder, an immensly powerful move with a 60% chance of paralysis via Serene Grace. Politoed is highly recommended as a teammate for this set.

    Bulky Psychic-types are a problem for Meloetta, as they are not quite 2HKOed by Thunder and can quickly dispatch of its Pirouette forme with Psychic or cripple either forme through status and recovery stall. Scizor is a fine example of a Psychic-type exterminator that works especially well in the Rain – the stormy weather makes Scizor much less susceptible to HP Fire, allowing it to take out an unboosted Celebi or Reuniclus without a hitch. Mew is a little trickier to deal with, since its superb defenses and access to Will-o-Wisp shut down most physical answers to it. Fortunately, Chandelure for a teammate can all but solve any Mew troubles, as it shuts down stallbreaker sets with ease by ignoring Will-o-Wisp, trapping it with Shadow Tag, and KOing with Shadow Ball. Hydreigon can also shrug off Will-o-Wisp and retaliate with Dark Pulse, taking on everything Mew has to offer short of a boosted Aura Sphere or Superpower.

    [SET]
    name: Stallbreaker
    move 1: Hone Claws / Work Up
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: Psychic
    move 4: Thunder
    item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
    nature: Naïve
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    Being one of the more unique Pokemon in the game, it would also stand to reason that Meloetta is also one of the few Pokemon capable of using Hone Claws competitively. As the name implies, the primary function of this set is to break stall, using her fantastic offensive movepool to cover every single common member of a stall team in one set. The +1 boost to Accuracy and Attack are useful for Meloetta to utilize both Close Combat and Thunder effectively, giving her a boost on the latter stat to deal major damage to Chansey, Blissey, Heatran and Ferrothorn, while increasing the accuracy of Thunder to acceptable levels without having to change the weather. Thunder allows Meloetta to threaten Politoed, Jellicent, and Skarmory, three integral Pokemon to stall teams, and also allows Meloetta to cripple switch-ins it can only hit for neutral damage, such as Jirachi, Dragonite, and Salamence. Lastly, Psychic is used as Meloetta's sole STAB attack on this set, blowing through the physical walls of stall teams that are not affected by Thunder, such as Hippowdon and Gliscor.

    Stallbreaker Meloetta can be used on teams in dire need of a mixed attacker or as a wildcard for defensively-oriented teams to break through their opponents. Meloetta's lack of effective resistances make her more at home on an offensive team, easily switching in and setting up on stall team members such as Tentacruel or Slowbro, provided Scald does not burn. Against offense, Meloetta also makes a surprisingly decent Gengar check, as her Normal-type gives her an immunity to Shadow Ball and her massive Special Defense makes her less susceptible to Focus Blast. When attempting to check Gengar, a Hasty nature is recommended, as a Life Orb Focus Blast can 2HKO Naive Meloetta after Stealth Rock damage, which foils her attempts to check a Gengar under the safety of its sub. In all other situations, a Naive nature is preferred to curb Meloetta's vulnerability to powerful priority attacks, such as Bullet Punch from Scizor or Mach Punch from Breloom.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    The choice between Life Orb and Expert Belt affects mainly two points of interest: longevity and neutral damage. For example, with Life Orb, a boosted Thunder 3HKOs specially defensive Jirachi (even 2HKOing with one layer of Spikes on the field), while Psychic OHKOs a full health Gliscor. However, with the possible Sand, Hail, or poison damage of a stall team wearing Meloetta down, it could be undesirable to take extra damage from Life Orb recoil. For this reason, Expert Belt is also an option to deal strong super effective damage without wearing down Meloetta's HP. Team members that really appreciate Meloetta's stallbreaking support include Swords Dance Landorus, Terrakion, and Lucario, all of which are troubled against a healthy stall team. If using a Rain team, Virizion also performs well alongside Meloetta, and appreciates her ability to lure and weaken the defensive Psychic-types before going down.

    [Other Options]

    With moves such as STAB Return, Quick Attack, Stone Edge, Shadow Claw, and U-turn in her arsenal, Meloetta can easily run a purely physical set in her Pirouette forme to some degree of effectiveness, but without any viable boosting moves for sweeping, such as Swords Dance, she will have a much tougher time against physical walls. Calm Mind is a classic boosting option for Psychic-type sweepers and can make its way home on a custom Meloetta set as well, but there are better Pokemon for the job, such as Reuniclus and Jirachi, whose reliable recovery and Toxic immunities allow for prolonged sweeps. Energy Ball and Grass Knot give Meloetta an easier time breaking through the likes of Hippowdon and Quagsire.

    [Checks and Counters]

    A defensive Psychic-type can throw a monkey wrench in any Meloetta's plans, as her best options for dealing with them are niche options such as Shadow Ball and U-turn. Mew, Celebi, and Jirachi can all avoid the 2HKO from her moves and stall her out with a combination of status, attacks, and recovery. Reuniclus combats her standard mixed attacker set well, but falls to a boosted Thunder from her stallbreaker set. Concerning checks, Choice Scarf users are your best bet, as almost nothing is faster than Meloetta once she has transformed. Scarf Chandelure, one of the most prominent revenge killers in the Dream World metagame, can trap and eliminate a transformed Meloetta with Overheat after suffering a bit of prior damage.

    The only viable Ghost-types capable of both halting her transformation and threatening her Aria form are Sableye and Golurk. Once either Pokemon switches into Relic Song, she becomes a sitting duck as Sableye Will-o-Wisps and Golurk deals severe damage with Earthquake. Priority attacks are other alternatives for checking Meloetta post-transformation. Scizor's Bullet Punch and Lucario's Extremespeed can pick her off with relative ease after a Defense drop from Close Combat. An untransformed Meloetta is much more vulnerable, with her lower Speed and Defense leaving her prey to other Dream World powerhouses. Salamence, Landorus, Terrakion, and Genesect all strike fear into Meloetta's Aria form, OHKOing easily with a Choice Band or Life Orb-boosted STAB Attack. Genesect OHKOs with U-turn and the attack boost it receives switching in.
  2. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk
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    No Calm Mind set?

    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Psychic
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Hyper Voice
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    128 Base Special Attack is pretty great, and 90 base Speed isn't too shabby either. Set up a Calm Mind, and you're at 692 Special Attack (factoring in Life Orb). Psychic is your main STAB move, Focus Blast provides good coverage, and Hyper Voice provides secondary STAB, hitting Psychic-types and such hard.

    I think you should change the Mixed set to the following:

    name: Mixed Attacker
    move 1: Relic Song
    move 2: Close Combat
    move 3: Thunderbolt / Psychic
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Expert Belt / Life Orb
    nature: Naive
    evs: 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe

    Similar to shrang's set. The Speed EVs let you outspeed Lucario as Meloetta-A and Alakazam as Meloetta-P. Thunderbolt is a good option in the third slot, as getting walled by Skarmory is not fun. Psychic is still a good option though. I would personally deslash U-turn, but if you want you can keep it slashed, though Hidden Power Ice should be the main slash. Also, I'd much rather invest in SpA then in Atk for this set, seeing as only one attack is physical, and three are special. Expert Belt is also a good option as recoil is rather annoying and you hit a lot super effectively with Fighting / Electric / Ice.

    You might want to change the EV spread from the Hone Claws set to 124 Atk / 240 SpA / 144 Spe. You still outspeed Adamant Lucario, and there isn't really much between Adamant Lucario and your current Speed. 124 Attack EVs are useful, because now if you predict a Blissey switching in you can 2HKO it with Close Combat before Hone Claws.
  3. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    Idk what happened to my mixed spread, I had it at 156 Spe/252 att/100 SpAtt (starmie). The speed might need to be higher since I forgot all about Alakazam (surprisingly uncommon, I thought he'd be a godsend in DW). I like your suggestioon for the moves though, I'm really partial to tbolt and have been testing with it all yesterday. I'll try to switch it up now.

    Calm Mind is on the tentative list, as is a phys attacker set. The set you have is outclassed pretty hard though. It'd probably have to be like Sub CM or what have you, but I'm really not hopeful fot it at all. Work Up, however, I might work into the Hone Claws set and call it 'Stallbreaker'.

    @ Omicron: Yeah man I love Thunder too. I'd make it the main option if I could get away with it, but according to standards, it's usually Tbolt and Thunder in AC because we can't assume Rain. I'll talk about it plenty in AC though.
  4. Omicron

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    SubCM is actually surprisingly good, something like sub / cm / thunder / psychic? Similar to Jirachi but much more powerful. Obviously to need rain support for thunder so thunderbolt is viable, but that sexy 60% paralysis chance is just too good to give up imo
  5. Fizz

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    Sure, but doesn't the far greater paralysis chance, in addition to Meloetta's really solid SpAtk put her in somewhat of a unique situation?

    I mean, normally the difference between Thunderbolt and Thunder is a little more power and a 20% greater paralysis chance in exchange for having to run Politoed, but here it becomes a seriously powerful move with a 40% greater paralysis chance. At the very least, as far as being a slash on the main set, it deserves further consideration. I believe rain may be assumed for a Pokémon who benefits significantly from its inclusion in one's team, and with this particular set, that may well be the case.
  6. shrang

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    You should probably replace Naive with a Hasty nature on the mixed set, because Meloetta does have a really good SpD stat that you don't really want to waste when you're Meloetta-A.
  7. SJCrew

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    Naive nature is for surviving priority attacks, since even with -nature she has ~115 base SpDef. With 100 base HP, that's not being threatened by any special attacks I can think of. With a Hasty nature, she takes Bullet Punch like Zoroark. Especially bad considering she needs to check Breloom before SD.

    EDIT: Cool, she can survive a +2 Leftovers Mach Punch too.
  8. Jukain

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    I'm seconding this, the SubCM set is very good. I personally use CM+3 attacks Meloetta, a very effective set. For background, I am using rain.

    Meloetta @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 12 SpA / 96 Spe
    Modest
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Thunder
    - Focus Blast

    To start off, the EVs. I am running enough Speed to outspeed max Speed Politoed and other base 70's. 252 HP / 148 Def is enough investment to never be 2HKO'd by YacheChomp's Earthquake, as well as just provide great general bulk. The rest is in Special Attack. I use a combination of Ditto, Mamoswine, and Scarftoed to deal with anything that could beat it, Ditto and Scarftoed to revenge kill anything together, and Mamoswine to beat special walls, Dragon-types, Tyranitar, and set up Stealth Rock. Calm Mind is obviously there to boost Meloetta's two best stats. Psychic is the obligatory STAB move, hitting the multitude of Fighting-types as well. Thunder is great for paralysis and bulky Water-types, the paralysis in particular saving my ass in ~30% of my matches. Focus Blast hits Steel-types and Tyranitar that resist Meloetta's other moves. Substitute and Calm Mind and Calm Mind + 3 attacks are completely different sets, with a totally different playstyle, so if you happen to want to include one set in the other's AC, don't do that. Cheers!
  9. SJCrew

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    I'm skipping a lot of important comments by mistake, let me address a couple.

    Look at her moves: the only non-filler/coverage is Close Combat, making it her main STAB and MVP of the set. I would agree with having stronger special attacks for Pirouette form to take on things like Skarmory and Gliscor, but most of her EVs really should be going into Attack to ensure she's as threatening as other Fighting-type sweepers in terms of power. I can't think of a better benchmark than Adamant Lucario; it's a Pokemon we can easily recognize the damage calcs for and has some of the most perfectly placed OHKOs and 2HKOs for walls and sweepers alike.

    Going by these standards, the given EVs would be 232 Att / 84 SpA / 192 Spe, making her offenses out to 350 / 211 / 374. Almost godlike. More importantly, it gives her a higher chance to KO the two aforementioned physical walls with her coverage after Stealth Rock damage (the chance is really small with the old set).

    Next update will be Friday where I gauge for myself how effective her Calm Mind set is.
  10. SJCrew

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    I've been furtively editing the analysis for the past month and it's almost done now. Just working on Checks and Counters.
  11. Jukain

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    So no CM?
  12. SJCrew

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    Mmm, I'm gonna have to veto CM. All of Meloetta's Calm Mind options are either outclassed by her other sets, other Pokemon, or are just plain bad. The set you posted is basically Stallbreaker with sporadic EVs and Focus Blast over Close Combat.
  13. TrollFreak

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    Nitpicking, but when you write this up, remember that Meloetta has no gender!
  14. SJCrew

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    I know that, and it's an awfully odd move on Gamefreak's part, but IIRC, the policy is that if you assume a gender, you have to stick with it for the entire analysis. In this case, the Pokemon is very obviously intended to be female and all of our readers will agree.
  15. OVRLDD

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    what about charge beam?

    with her great serene grace ability, melloeta has a 100% spatt boost from a charge beam att. I would reccomend this set:

    Meloetta @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 4 Att/ 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive
    - Charge beam
    - Psychic / Psyshock
    - Relic Song
    - Close combat

    with this, you can get powered up with the charge beam, making melloetta reach insane special att levels, and when some troublesome pokemons (for example, tyranitar) just relic song, resist his crunch/pursuit and CC.
    The psychic or psyshock versus is the old same as usual. psychic is overall better, specially with meloetta, and it has 20% confusion thanks to serene grace. but gets blocked by blissey. and to avoid the twave or toxic from her when u use relic song, u just psyshock

    OR


    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid
    - Charge beam
    - Psyshock
    - Hyper Voice
    - Focus Blast

    Just a simple all sp attacker melloetta. no need to go on a deep explanation.
    charge beam = + spatt
    psyshock = bye blissey
    hyper voice = epic stab
    focus MISS = so long tyranitars
  16. SJCrew

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    I wouldn't recommend Charge Beam for any standard set. Between the weak base power, imperfect accuracy, common immunity, and superior stat boosting options available on most of the Pokemon that get it, there's a reason it's not seen at all in competitive Pokemon.

    Again, this looks eerily similar to her other sets with a suboptimal choice of moves. You shouldn't even be thinking about Focus Blast with Close Combat available. She's just a hair shy of living the Psychic-type dream.
  17. SJCrew

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    Unless I missed something major, I think this is ready for checks.
  18. Tobes

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    Overview
    • Not so sure I like cute singing pixie -> dangerous dancing pixie, do you have anything else you could replace this with?
    Mixed Attacker Meloetta
    • "forme", not "form". Usually we use American spelling but this is one of the big exceptions.
    • "Ridiculously well in all playstyles" is a bit of an overstatement.
    • Mention entry hazard support due to all the switching this set can cause.
    • Dugtrio to trap Jirachi.
    Stallbreaker Meloetta
    • AC is too short. You don't mention any teammates at all.
    Other Options
    • Grass Knot / Energy Ball
    • Perish Song
    • Quick Attack
    Checks and Counters
    • Choice Scarf Chandelure
    • Choice Scarf Genesect, Scizor U-turn, U-turn in general
    • Specially defensive Jirachi
    • Sableye and Spiritomb are nowhere near relevant enough to deserve comment here.
    Approval pending a complete Stallbreaker Meloetta AC section.
  19. Omicron

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    I still think SubCM should be a set. It can work like Jirachi to an extent, with much greater Special bulk and Special Attacking prowess.
  20. SJCrew

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    Yeah, it's like Jirach without the superior Speed and resistances that make it so easy to set up Calm Minds. Even the most common defensive Pokemon can break Meloetta's Subs, and something faster will stop you next turn almost guaranteed. Show me some logs or calcs where it would be useful over any other Sub CM Pokemon.

    @ Tobes: Jirachi is already mentioned in Checks and Counters. And yeah, Spiritomb is a stretch, but Sableye is still viable and such a hard stop, it's not even funny. The rest I'll work on.
  21. SJCrew

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    Wrote a few more paragraphs, including most of the changes you mentioned.

    Changes not made:

    - I tried to add Perish Song just to add it, but I couldn't phrase a passing recommendation in any way that wouldn't sound stupid. Meloetta can't run a viable defensive set, and doesn't have any use for it as an offense Pokemon.

    - I left Spiritomb in checks and counters not as a recommendation, but as an example. At the very least, it is viable, and two is a magic number I like to stick with when illustrating examples. The point is that if you want to safely stop its transformation without getting mauled, you have two choices: him or Sableye. Golurk fits there too, but I don't think he's even viable. I can put him over Spiritomb if you want.

    I trust these aren't major enough to deny me of a check.
  22. shrang

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    I think it should be noted that mixed Meloetta loves hazards, since you could potentially be switching between formes and forcing out Pokemon, since counters to Meloetta-A are generally weak to Meloetta-P and vice-versa.
  23. SJCrew

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    Update: EVs on Mixed Attacker need slight readjustment for Tornadus-T and Landorus-T. Amoongus mention as a partner to Meloetta-P in AC. Going to to ladder and think of some more BW2 changes when I work on this tonight.

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