1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Meloetta

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Rising_Dusk, Sep 18, 2010.

  1. pixac

    pixac

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    parafusion set?

    I was testing out a meloetta lead:
    Meloetta @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 112 HP / 144 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant/Jolly Nature
    -thunder wave
    -teeter dance
    -fire punch/ice punch
    -Last Resort/Close Combat

    the old parafusion set with two attacks. After some testing on PS, Ice punch is the better choice if you don't have trouble with scizor as gliscor tries to wall with his ground typing preventing PAR. Last resort is very powerful:140 plus stab is 210; however, close combat is much more stable as you don't need to have used all attacks. 112 HP is to better be able to take hits: however, full attack and speed may work.
  2. G-Von

    G-Von

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    629
    I do not think Meloetta is gonna be OU either. It needs a turn to set up to become a physical sweeper. Possibly BL, but i personally think UU.
  3. Machi

    Machi

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    401
    Highly doubtful she will be OU. However, I agree Meloetta will definitely be one of the mons to look out for as a possible BL but needs to be placed in practice to really see how she will perform, its hard to theorymon her even more so that its not like she has been in UU given how DW tiers on smogon and other servers have been set. Victini remains UU so I'd say Meloetta is in the wait and see category. But by and large I believe Meloetta's fate depends on how Aria form will perform, I think Pirouette form is well balanced by relic song mechanics, and incidentally will affect how Pirouette form will be judged given that Pirouette has a movepool to demolish Arias normal counters so that unpredictability will play a factor.
  4. A Fhaol Bhig

    A Fhaol Bhig

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    192
    Ever thought of reading this?
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3469098


    Now, I do agree unpredictability will be her main game. The potential for a mixed, special, or physical set are all there. Thunder Abuse with Serene Grace in Rain sounds amazing as well.
  5. Machi

    Machi

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    401
    Undoubtedly her potential for rain is good just that well rain has a lot of attackers so question would be how does she exactly differ from existing rain offense that exist? Normal psychic while its a good way to deal with Gengar as noted earlier doesn't exactly offer too much resistances. In addition to 90 speed which isn't exactly going to be that helpful in OU. Any case whether OU or UU Meloetta will be an interesting pokemon to see how it will perform its just unknown.
  6. A Fhaol Bhig

    A Fhaol Bhig

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    192
    Well in rain her Pirouette Form stomps all over Ferrothorn. My only problem with that is so can Toxicroak for example, and he gets reliable recovery.
  7. G-Von

    G-Von

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    629
    Technically speaking, no one has broken any of those rules as of right now. The reason why those rules were put in place was because of the Therian formes being introduced and everyone cried UBERS. We are simply discussing if Meloetta is going to start out in UU or BL when it is finally introduced instead of having it BANNED to Ubers.

    Yes, Meloetta is going to be slightly unpredictable. it can run a physical, special, or mixed set. It can even run a paraflinch set with T-wave/Zen Headbutt. Maybe even a Charge Beam sweeper set too. So yes, it has many options. The thing that hinders it is that on the special side, it has a meager 90 base speed. That doesn't out-speed much. If it wants to be physical, it needs to waste a turn setting up. I'm sure some people will be able to master the craft of using Meloetta to great results, however, many people will have a tough time figuring out whether to attack instead of switching forme.
  8. VaporeonIce

    VaporeonIce

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    278
    I think Meloetta will really struggle in OU. It can definitely be unpredictable; the problem is that most of its sets aren't all that threatening. It has a lot of trouble switching in on much; sweepers outspeed and do heavy damage (it does have amazing special bulk, but the lack of resistances hurts it), meaning Meloetta will have to take two hits to retaliate, which is a poor option when it lacks reliable recovery. Walls just smack it with status and switch out. It could be a really cool bulky attacker if it had good resistances or a reliable recovery move, but it doesn't, so it gets worn down pretty heavily by the hard hitters in OU. Of course, it could turn into the wrecking ball that is the Pirouette form by using Relic Song, but that becomes relatively predictable when its other sets struggle.

    Maybe I'll be wrong; maybe it'll be more viable than I think it will be as a bulky attacker. But I think its typing hurts it, especially when there are other Pokemon that can perform the same role without many disadvantages and with the massive advantage of reliable recovery (Celebi, Reuniclus). But if its only really effective set is the Relic Song mixer attacker, that set becomes much more predictable, which makes it much less effective.
  9. NoUserName

    NoUserName

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    484
    I have just realized that Soundproof blocks Relic Song, I don't know if even blocks transformation. Curious at least, because Soundproof mons suck, at least Mr. Mime is a bit usable.

    About the tier, Meloetta was UU in DW(of the server PO I think) as an approximation...

    About the paraflinch set, Meloetta has Teeter Dance, for to annoy more adding parafusionflinch.

    Also a guy mentioned time ago this moveset:

    Meloetta @ Silk Scarf

    - Relic Song
    - Last Resort
  10. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,987
    @ A Fhaol Bhig

    Mini-modding is also frowned upon in the general smogon rules, while I do realize I am being a bit hypocritical in saying this, I feel its important that you know this.

    I need to play more I haven't see this thing yet unfortunately. I think the choice between UU and BL is for the UU community to decide not us. I am doubting it would drop though for some time if it does suck because of initial hype like whimsicott. I don't believe this is to powerful either as UU has a lot of powerful sweepers and calm mind pokemon and is fine with them, but again that is for UU to decide.
  11. Cipher Admin Lovrina

    Cipher Admin Lovrina

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,076
    In terms of support movepool, she's excellent as she has Teeter Dance, Thunder Wave, Perish Song, Toxic, Sleep Talk + Rest, Magic Coat, Sunny Day + Rain Dance, Calm Mind, Substitute, Snatch, Knock Off, Gravity, Heal Bell, Trick. Personally, I love using an all-out attacking set with Thunder in the rain... Ancient Song makes for great mind games as the more they try to switch around it, the better chance you have of sleeping something. Shrang's mixed set seems very very potent right now as it can smash through Gliscor, Ferrothorn, and a lot of other defensive pokemon. For such a defensive mon, she sure has great stallbreaking potential!
  12. shofly12

    shofly12

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    160
    I feel like Meloetta will turn out like mew. It's all about surprise, and figuring out the set. AFter figuring out the set, won't be too hard to counter.
  13. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,231
    I'm currently testing sets to write up in the Meloetta analysis, and one thing I've thought up is Specially Defensive Meloetta:

    Meloetta @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD (May change)
    Nature: Calm
    - Perish Song
    - Psyshock
    - Thunder Wave / Thunder
    - Shadow Ball / Focus Blast / Heal Bell

    This is probably the best counter to Reuniclus to exist in OU, IMO. Calm Mind versions are swiftly put on a timer by Perish Song, while Trick Room variants are looking at 5HKO with Focus Blast without Sand/Hail. In return, you can Shadow Ball the thing. It's also probably the best switch-in to Gengar and Alakazam, as well, since Focus Blast are pretty all they can do to you, which don't hurt much at all. Outside of them, you can also use Meloetta to check stuff like Calm Mind Virizion as well. I haven't actually tested this one just yet, but I may pack it on some generic stall team to give it a shot soon.
  14. KurashiDragon

    KurashiDragon

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    822
    On paper this set looks like it might have a few problems. The most major one I can think of is that Jirachi does this better in almost every single way. While 100/100 is indeed worse than 100/128, Jirachi has MUCH better defensive typing, access to semi fair recovery in wish that it can properly abuse with t-wave and Iron Head for paraflinching.
  15. Shouting

    Shouting

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2012
    Messages:
    254
    But, Keep in mind that Bug and Dark weaknesses are much, much less common than Fire and Ground. Pretty much every Ground and Water type forces Jirachi out. Also, sometimes Alakazam carries HP Fire which can do in for Jirachi. Not to mention usually Jirachi carries protect or Stealth Rock (I've even seen Ice Punch) in the last slot which means it's complete Magnezone bait, if it's not carrying Fire Punch. And if it's carrying Fire Punch, it does not have the easiest time restoring health through wish.
  16. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,987
    Jirachi vs Meloetta is very interesting, one thing Meloetta has is perish song which is an excellent finisher on stall teams, the lack of recovery and reistances hurts a lot though. One one hand though, it does lack a fire weakness, allowing it to effectively counter Venusaur in the sun, (if anything I think this think should be geared to 1HKO venusaur with psychic/psyshock, thunderwave is cool and all, but vensaur still has respectable speed vs stall in the sun.

    72 special attack evs guarantee a 1HKO on Venusaur with psychic after rocks :).
  17. Cold Fusion

    Cold Fusion

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    146
    Perish song would probably work wonders along side SR and Spikes.
  18. A Fhaol Bhig

    A Fhaol Bhig

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    192
  19. RBG

    RBG It feels like a perfect night to dress up like hipsters
    is a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Facebook Manager

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    3,330
    He's probably ashamed of the bad pun the set is named though.
  20. Cipher Admin Lovrina

    Cipher Admin Lovrina

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,076
    I don't think they even got the best spread for it either. 56 Attack evs mean that Close Combat isn't going to be ohkoing anything.
  21. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,307
    Thats a cool idea but i think the Pursuit weakness and the inability to do anything against both Scizor and TTar would really hurt it's effectiveness. It also seems to lack some punch behind it (haven't actually tested this but an unboosted Latias does pitiful damage to anything not horrribly frail and the damage output should be the same with worse coverage) and seems really easy to wall by common OU Pokes.
    I think Calm Mind over Perish Song would be cool as it would still allow you to beat CM Reuniclus wich seems to be the main purpose of Perish Song while allowing it to act as a late game sweeper.
    Heal Bell or U-Turn also seems much more useful than T-Wave IMO, simply because a shit ton of things learn T-Wave and those other two moves got much more utility for a stall team wich this thing seems to be designed for.
  22. Magik

    Magik

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2011
    Messages:
    85
    Meloetta @ Life Orb
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 attack/252 speed/4 sp. attack
    Nature: Naive
    - Relic Song
    - Close Combat
    - Thunder
    - Ice Punch

    This set is um AMAZING. And the only you should use if you decide to use her pirouette form.
    Yes you must be think another rain abuser?! Mhmm meloetta benefits from the rain with 100%accurate thunders AND 60% chance of paralysis.
    With this set Skarmories and gliscors thinking they can wall meloetta crumble as they get hit by an ice punch or striked by a thunder.
    (evs are straightforward for now D: im not an ev expert :/)
  23. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte For every king that died, oh, they would crown another
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,929
    Yeah, the EV's are a bit of a question. I would put 4 Atk/252 Sp Atk/252 Spe with a Mild nature. You will probably be spending most of your time in Piruette form, and that form needs the EV's in Sp Atk so that it can still hit hard. Lonely can also be used.
  24. Cipher Admin Lovrina

    Cipher Admin Lovrina

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2008
    Messages:
    2,076
    The analysis is using 200 Speed to outspeed Lucario in Aria forme and Tornadus-T in Pirouette forme, 232 Attack evs to make Close Combat strong enough to OHKO standard Tyranitar in Aria Forme, and 84 Special Attack evs which ensure you KO anything you'd want to check in Aria, and still have enough special attack to knock around stuff that switch into Close Combat.
  25. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,538
    +Spe is necessary to outspeed Tornadus-T in Pirouette Forme and really shouldn't be discarded on a toggle set. Of course, Close Combat isn't going to threaten Tornadus-T much, but even uninvested LO Meloetta-P Thunder has a very good chance to OHKO Tornadus-T after SR.

    I had hoped for Meloetta to be able to enter battle as Pirouette Forme in BW2, but oh well. Her best niche is still the stallbreaking toggle set imo, but she has access to a few other niches (Calm Mind, Trick Room, etc.) that make her worth considering. The problem with this is that Reuniclus is generally better at these niches, so as far as OU play she's probably almost always going to be using a toggle set, which is fine. It's unique and is pretty viable and will almost definitely comprise the majority of her OU use once things settle down.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)