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Copyediting Mesprit (UU Update)

Discussion in 'DPP Analyses' started by SilentVerse, Oct 3, 2011.

  1. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    [​IMG]

    Mesprit



    This is really just a small update to rewrite some stuff, but there were two big changes that were made as well:

    - Removed Choice sets. I really doubt that Mesprit is a particularly good user of Specs or Band besides Trick and U-turn.
    - Removed Support and dumped it into AC of Lead. A pure support is outclassed by Uxie and it's very similar to the lead set (the only difference is a different coverage move and T-wave > U-turn). Simply saying that the lead set can be used outside of that position with a few tweaks would probably suffice, unless it's actually that much different from the lead set.

    Of course, QC can add those sets back in if they feel that they should be included however.

    [Overview]

    - While Mesprit initially looks outclassed by Uxie, her significantly better offensive stats allows her to be much more of a threat, whereas Uxie is basically just limited to supporting roles.
    - Mesprit also has a wider movepool, with useful moves like Ice Beam and Healing Wish that Uxie misses out on.
    - Unfortunately, because Mesprit is so middling as a Psychic-type, it's uses are arguably more restricted. If a supporting Psychic-type is desired, Uxie is usually the better choice, and if a Psychic-type sweeper is needed, then Alakazam and even Espeon are better choices.
    - All in all, Mesprit is a Pokemon who is not particularly biased in offense or defense, and she strikes a great balance between the two. Her great defensive and offensive capabilities give her amazing versatility, easily making her a threat which UU teams must look out for.

    [SET]
    name: Lead
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Psychic
    move 3: Ice Beam / Grass Knot
    move 4: Thunderbolt / U-turn
    item: Expert Belt / Leftovers
    nature: Modest
    ability: Levitate
    evs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Even though Uxie's higher Speed and significantly better bulk may make it seem as if Uxie outclasses Mesprit when it comes to setting up Stealth Rock, it would be a mistake to simply discount Mesprit's ability to set up Stealth Rock. Uxie may possess better defenses and Speed, but it also lacks any form of offensive presence due to its pitiful base 75 Special Attack stat. Mesprit, on the other hand, boasts a very respectable base 105 Special Attack stat, which, in tandem with Mesprit's arguably better offensive movepool, allow it to immediately pressure most of the Pokemon commonly used in the lead position, such as Omastar, Qwilfish, Rhyperior, Hippopotas, Cloyster, Kabutops, and other such Pokemon who are weak to Mesprit's incredible coverage. Important to note is that most of these Pokemon are capable of setting up Stealth Rock or other hazards; thus, Mesprit can, thanks its offensive presence, double as a sort of anti-lead that is capable of preventing the opponent's Stealth Rock or Spikes from being set up, while also setting up those valuable rocks for its own team.</p>

    <p>Thanks to its respectable bulk and decent Speed, in addition to the fact that Mesprit's offensive presence can often force the opponent to switch plenty of times, Mesprit makes a perfectly viable user of Stealth Rock, and is able to capitalize on the opponent's switches by setting it up. The rest of Mesprit's movepool is designed to hit as many Pokemon in the lead position as hard as possible. Psychic is Mesprit strongest STAB move, and is great for doing solid damage to Pokemon who are neutral or resistant to Ice Beam and Thunderbolt. Ice Beam and Thunderbolt form the fabled BoltBeam coverage, and in tandem, hit most of UU for super effective damage. Alternatively, you may use Grass Knot and U-turn over Ice Beam and Thunderbolt if you want Mesprit to act as more of a scout; after all, Grass Knot still hits most of those hazard-setting leads for heavy damage, and has the added bonus of cleanly OHKOing Rhyperior and Omastar, which Ice Beam and Thunderbolt cannot do. However, Grass Knot does not have the incredible combined coverage of Ice Beam and Thunderbolt, and its overall coverage is rather poor, which means that outside of the lead position, should you opt to use Grass Knot, Mesprit will not have as much mid-game or late-game use. For example, with Ice Beam, Mesprit is able to make a handy check to Rock Polish Torterra, as it is able to take a Life Orb-boosted Wood Hammer after Stealth Rock, and can retaliate with Ice Beam for an OHKO, which Grass Knot cannot do. Furthermore, with Grass Knot, Mesprit is completely helpless against Drapion and Houndoom, who can easily use the free opportunity to set up.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>With the given Speed EVs, Mesprit outspeeds the increasingly popular max Speed Omastar, who would otherwise be able to set up both Stealth Rock and a layer of Spikes if Mesprit were to be slower. The remaining EVs are first used to maximize Mesprit's Special Attack stat to make it a real offensive terror, before being dumped into HP to help buff Mesprit's respectable bulk. Expert Belt is also the item of choice, as it provides the best compromise between power and bulk, and, due to Mesprit's exemplary coverage, it will boost Mesprit's attacks much of the time. However, Leftovers are certainly an option over Expert Belt should you want Mesprit to have increased longevity, but without Expert Belt, Mesprit often misses out on crucial KOs, which generally makes Leftovers the inferior option.</p>

    <p>Should you consider putting Mesprit on your team, it's imperative that you take into account Mesprit's unique advantages over Uxie. Mesprit's key advantages over its fellow pixie is naturally its significantly higher offenses, which in particular, allow it to prevent entry hazard-laying leads such as Omastar and Cloyster from setting up their cumbersome hazards. Uxie, on the other hand, is significantly higher defenses and better Speed, making it the better choice if you need a reliable user of Stealth Rock throughout the match. Thus, Mesprit generally should be used on more offensively minded teams, as its ability to prevent entry hazards from setting up ensures that offensive teams will not have to worry about Spikes, and its ability to set up Stealth Rock is also generally appreciated by most teams.</p>

    <p>Therefore, as Mesprit should generally be used on offensive teams, Mesprit appreciates offensive partners to take advantage of the immediate offensive that Mesprit inflicts upon the opponent right from the get-go. Mesprit also needs teammates to make the leads that it loses to, such as Ambipom, Spiritomb, and Registeel, as well as Dark- and Steel-types in general, as well as bulky Psychic-types effectively non-issues. Because of this, Fighting-types like Blaziken and Hariyama make good partners, as their powerful Fighting-type STAB moves OHKO the likes of Ambipom and Registeel, and these two Fighting-types do not care about Will-O-Wisp from Spiritomb, due to Blaziken's Fire typing and Hariyama's Guts ability. Dark-types are also great partners, as they form a fantastic Fighting-Psychic-Dark core with Mesprit and its Fighting-type partner, and these Dark-types are able to beat the bulky Psychic-types who are able to wall Mesprit with startling ease.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Weather Support
    move 1: Rain Dance / Sunny Day
    move 2: Psychic / Zen Headbutt
    move 3: Stealth Rock / Grass Knot / U-turn
    move 4: Healing Wish
    item: Damp Rock / Heat Rock
    nature: Timid / Jolly
    ability: Levitate
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    - Same as on-site set.
    - Mixture of bulk, power, and reasonable speed make this different from Uxie, who while bulkier, can't attack worth anything. Also, Healing Wish is very cool.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf Lead
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Trick
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Zen Headbutt
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly
    ability: Levitate
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    - Same set as the one on-site.
    - Mention of using this outside of the lead position, replacing Stealth Rock with an extra coverage move to attempt a sweep.

    [SET]
    name: Trick Room
    move 1: Trick Room
    move 2: Thunderbolt
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Psychic / U-turn
    item: Expert Belt / Leftovers
    nature: Quiet
    ability: Levitate
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA

    - Same as on-site set.
    - Good user of Trick Room due to her great overall offenses and defenses. Can also potentially sweep under Trick Room as well.
    - Healing Wish is an option to restore one sweeper, but it forces Mesprit to lose a coverage move, which isn't ideal as it limits her sweeping capabilities.

    [SET]
    name: Offensive Calm Mind
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Psychic
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Ice Beam / Substitute
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    ability: Levitate
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    - Same as on-site set.
    - Mesprit gets good coverage between Psychic and Ice Beam. Hidden Power Ground is useful to hit Registeel, but Substitute protects against status.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Psychic
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Trick / U-turn
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    ability: Levitate
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    - Cool revenge killer; outspeeds RP Torterra, DD Gatr, Alakazam.
    - Good coverage + decent Speed, bulk, and power separate this from the likes of Espeon, Alakazam, and such.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Zen Headbutt
    move 2: U-turn
    move 3: Trick
    move 4: Fire Punch
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Jolly
    ability: Levitate
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    - Not amazing for the most part, but can be an okay way to cripple stuff like Registeel.
    - CB U-turn + Trick is kinda cool
    - Ok at scouting.

    [Other Options]

    - Charm is cool to weaken physical attacks.
    - Dual Screens is an option but Uxie is better, unless you really, really want to abuse Healing Wish.
    - A RestTalk set is viable to patch up Mesprit's lack of recovery, but Uxie is usually better as it is way bulkier.
    - Knock Off is an interesting support option, but it usually isn't worth sacrificing a coverage move or support move.
    - Charge Beam to boost Mesprit's offenses while attacking, but Calm Mind is better.
    - Mention a bunch of physical and special moves here (Elemental Punches, Energy Ball, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam)

    [Checks and Counters]

    - Because Mesprit is so diverse, it is somewhat difficult to counter her.
    - For the most part though, walls like Registeel, Chansey, Clefable, Milotic, Spiritomb, and Slowbro work well, though they must fear Trick and perhaps the occasional super effective coverage move.
    - Dark-types also do decently. Houndoom resists the common Psychic + Ice Beam combo, while Specially Defensive Drapion makes can switch into them as well and threaten with Crunch.
  2. cartercr

    cartercr

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    Would Thunder Wave be usable on the Lead set?
  3. Banedon

    Banedon

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    I think it deserves a mention, but a main slash ... it might fit Uxie better, who has the bulk to take hits and retaliate with paralysis. That said, for the lead set you might want to re-evaluate the nature or just go flat out with 0 speed IVs (for the slow U-turn etc).

    Gardevoir gets dual screens + Healing Wish, too. Might be worth a comparison here (Mesprit has much better balanced bulk, Gardevoir hits a lot harder if she has to attack with Psychic).

    What's with Extrasensory when Mesprit has Psychic? If it's for the flinch chance, Psychic has a 10% SpD fall, too.
  4. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    Thunder Wave will just get a mention in the AC of the Lead set. Psychic + Grass Knot is really important to beat a bunch of leads, Stealth Rock is Stealth Rock, and U-turn is useful for scouting. Thunder Wave could probably have a use, but the set doesn't really have room for it. Also, the Brave nature is to break some Substitutes, though I don't really know which, and it's mainly there just to preserve Mesprit's bulk and power. I don't really think 0 Speed IVs is necessary since then Mesprit loses to a few things (now Mesprit can be outsped and Encored by Clefable, and some other silly things like that) so I'd rather just keep it as 31 for simplicity. I'll probably give a mention of 0 speed IVs or something in AC.

    I'll be sure to make that comparison between Gardevoir and Mesprit as Dual Screeners when I write this up, and I removed Extrasensory. I actually thought that more Mesprit sets used Thunder Wave, so I thought it might be an interesting option over Psychic, but since none of the main sets have Thunder Wave listed, it's kinda pointless.
  5. Bluewind

    Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fea
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    Mesprit's lead set should probably be changed to something like this (and also moved to top):

    Mesprit @ Expert Belt / Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 SAtk / 136 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Stealth Rock
    - Ice Beam / Grass Knot
    - Thunderbolt / U-turn

    Speed is enough for Timid Omastar leads, BoltBeam abuses Expert Belt to the maximum and hits pretty much all leads Grass Knot do, while retaining the ability of dealing with things like Moltres, Grass-types, opposing Mesprit and whatnot. I left Knot and U-turn slashed in case you want to use Mesprit as a scouter, as Grass Knot suffices to check things like Cloyster and Omastar (which are the mostly concerning leads anyways, as they can spike on you). Leftovers can be used with U-turn and Grass Knot since you OHKO Omastar and only max SpD Cloyster has a chance of surviving (and even then it's probably just switching out).

    Gonna take a second look later (kinda in a hurry right now), so for now that's what I could think of (perhaps put back the CB set, doesn't sound too bad in theory but I don't know).
  6. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    Changes made. I'm not really too sure about CB though, since Zen Headbutt is kinda weak and CB U-turn isn't that great when U-turn is unSTABed. I didn't see it that much when Gen IV UU was still active either, so eh, I'm kinda reluctant to re-add it.
  7. Bluewind

    Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fea
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    I'm not a huge fan of it either, but I'm reluctant to dismiss it simply because in theory that's something Mesprit can do, even if not too amazingly (also having Trick and U-turn really helps). A standart 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly with Fire Punch / U-turn / Trick / Zen Headbutt should do; even if its just shoved on the very bottom of the analysis as a decent way of crippling things like Registeel and Chansey and for overall scouting.

    On the Scarf lead set, I'd just max Attack. IIRC that amount was needed to break Raikou's subs, who is obviously no longer a concern; and when compared to Uxie, this thing (with the current spread) gets 50 more Attack in exchange for 50 Def, 50 SpD, 7 HP and Speed for base 80s (using a max Attack spread, just for the sake of comparision); so I really think the only thing in which he's better than Uxie should be pumped to the maximum.

    Weather Support feels slashity... but I guess it's ok. I'd swap Grass Knot and Stealth Rock, mostly because I find SR + weather pretty cool. And Mesprit's main objective is supporting after all. Perhaps make it the second set over Scarf Lead mostly because I saw this one a bit more.

    Don't forget to slash EBelt before Leftovers on the TR set.

    I'll post something about the CM set (and maybe Scarf revenge killer set) later because I gotta run some calcs and got little time (really sorry for this btw x.x)
  8. Banedon

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  9. SilentVerse

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    Okay, changes made. After playing around with it for a bit (it's so hard to find matches for Gen IV UU now T_T), I think CB Mesprit is okay, so I'm fine with it being at the bottom of the analysis.

    @Banedon: Eh, I really just don't think that the Scarf Lead set has enough room for Thunder Wave. It really needs every move on that set, since it's main job is to set up Stealth Rock and cripple stuff via Trick and scout stuff with U-turn, with Zen Headbutt being the obligatory STAB move. An AC mention should suffice imo.
  10. pie cream

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    Maybe mention a bulkier ev spread on the calm mind set? I use 252hp / 168spa / 88spe modest with hidden power ground over ice beam with leaftovers. the 88spe evs are to outspeed 252spe adament aggron and ko with hp ground, 252hp for bulk and 168spa and modest for power.
  11. uraga

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    i like tbolt somewhere slashed on the CM LO set. other than that, this looks good to go.

    QC APPROVED 1/2
  12. Bluewind

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    Change order of Sub and HP Ground on CM set, it's a bit counterproductive to have Sub and LO together as main option on a Pokemon that is rather bulky. Also I'd consider Thunderbolt over Ice Beam. Tbolt hits Blastoise, Azumarill, Milotic, Feraligatr, Moltres, Omastar, Kabutops, Cloyster, Slowbro (...); whereas Ice Beam hits Altaria, Claydol, Exeggutor, Ground-types (Rhyperior has Solid Rock, Dugtrio is lol, Donphan only touches you with Head Smash and has bad SpDef) and Grass-types (out of which only Torterra can actually take a +1 hit IIRC). So yeah, IMO make Thunderbolt the third move choice and slash Ice Beam on move 4 as in HP Ground / Ice Beam / Substitute.

    I also tried out a Scarf set and it can be surprisingly useful. Ice Beam/Tbolt/Psychic/Trick or U-turn with max SAtk and Speed and Timid nature is a pretty interesting revenge killer; outspeeds RP Torterra, DD Gatr, Alakazam etc. I think it's worth a set of its own to be honest.

    Sorry for taking so long btw, approved ._.
  13. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    Yeah, I'll add the Scarf set then, since I guess it's not really a bad set and has some interesting things to set it apart. Anyway, the other changes were also done, so time to write this, though this'll probably be less of a priority than my 5th gen stuff.
  14. IronJustice

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    Are there any circumstances where Extrasensory > Psychic?
  15. Oglemi

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    Never, the flinch chance is not worth the power drop. Unless Extrasensory is your only Psychic-type coverage and you absolutely need it (not likely), then it would be worth using.
  16. Conflict

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    I wish we could remove the Trickscarf-Lead set.

    Just because it is pretty bad (same goes for Uxie's trickscarfleadset). They both lose to almost any lead out there because they cant prevent hazards and dont accomplish much after theyve tricked their scarf.

    Has anyone here ever seen Trickscarf used effectively? Was it a better option than any other lead you might come up with? If not id like it removed.

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