Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
Since there isn't really a case for this, I propose that it would simply copy the first move that the Pokemon has. Seems simple enough to understand, right?
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Meta Man
- Thread starter Jajoken
- Start date
An interesting thing theorizing is weather. When ur setter(s) faint(s), your opponent gets the weather setting ability. But a risk of this is having an abuser of the weather (swift swim users, sand rush users, etc.) die and ur opponent coming in and abusing it against you. High risk, high reward, just like in standard formats. Neat meta.
Currently my solution for that contingency is that no move in inherited (as stated in the OP). However, if it's easy enough to code, inheriting the first moveslot would be acceptable as well.
I rather have a random move to copy instead to prevent people from putting a bad move on the top on purpose. Nice meta though.
Kit Kasai
Love colored magic
There are a lot of cases for this, like killed while asleep, killed while switching in, killed while outsped...
This looks amazing! Definitely going to try out Slaking, nabbing an ability like Tough Claws or Adaptability would be great! Or...
Slaking @ Life Orb
Ability: Truant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly or Adamant Nature
-Double-Edge/Return
-Hammer Arm/Bulk Up/Low Kick
-EQ
-Pursuit/Night Slash/Slack Off
Dugtrio @ Leftovers
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Protect
-Hone Claws
-EQ
-Substitute/Stone Edge
Ok so basically you can decide whether you want an annihilator Slaking and go for a sweep or quickly kill Slaking and go to the sweeper Dugtrio strategy. Both work, it just depends on your situation for what's best.
Annihilator Slaking: Extremely hard hitting, not hard to get a KO and wipe out Truant. Get something good, hopefully TC, Adapt, Speed boost, PBond, Tinted Lens, PPower/HPower (a sloth can dream, can't he?), something to help him sweep. If this is what you want, go for Slack Off and Return and a safer fighting type option. Dugtrio can attempt to be useful later, but probably Slaking will do so well it won't matter. If Slaking fails and dies, run he Dugtrio sweep.
Dugtrio Sweep: Drain Slaking's health with DEdge + LO against a tough wall and let it him die, or just pretend to be stupid and send out Slaking against a Terrakion or boosted faster attacker, whatever can KO it. If they think something is fishy and switch to a wall, then drain his HP.
Now, your opponent has Truant. Send out Dugtrio, Protect on the attaching turns and setup on the Truant turns. (Just make sure the Slaking killer is grounded! Shouldn't be too hard though) You can end up with a Dugtrio at +6 attack, +6 accuracy, and a substitute. Now you can kill the Truant one with EQ and gain a new coverage move. If you don't trust you will get a good new move, drop sub for Stone Edge but look out for revenge killers. Dugtrio is easy to KO. Anyway, once you kill it you will get Truant, but it's unlikely the opponent will have Protect to take advantage of it, and you can kill the next one at +6 and types a new ability. Boom, win.
like this guy said, a trapping abuse of Truant. To perhaps, format it into a more easily discernible group of sets:
Slaking @ Life Orb
Ability: Truant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly or Adamant Nature
-Double-Edge/Return
-Hammer Arm/Bulk Up/Low Kick
-EQ
-Pursuit/Night Slash/Slack Off
Dugtrio @ Leftovers
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Protect
-Hone Claws
-EQ
-Substitute/Stone Edge
Ok so basically you can decide whether you want an annihilator Slaking and go for a sweep or quickly kill Slaking and go to the sweeper Dugtrio strategy. Both work, it just depends on your situation for what's best.
Annihilator Slaking: Extremely hard hitting, not hard to get a KO and wipe out Truant. Get something good, hopefully TC, Adapt, Speed boost, PBond, Tinted Lens, PPower/HPower (a sloth can dream, can't he?), something to help him sweep. If this is what you want, go for Slack Off and Return and a safer fighting type option. Dugtrio can attempt to be useful later, but probably Slaking will do so well it won't matter. If Slaking fails and dies, run he Dugtrio sweep.
Dugtrio Sweep: Drain Slaking's health with DEdge + LO against a tough wall and let it him die, or just pretend to be stupid and send out Slaking against a Terrakion or boosted faster attacker, whatever can KO it. If they think something is fishy and switch to a wall, then drain his HP.
Now, your opponent has Truant. Send out Dugtrio, Protect on the attaching turns and setup on the Truant turns. (Just make sure the Slaking killer is grounded! Shouldn't be too hard though) You can end up with a Dugtrio at +6 attack, +6 accuracy, and a substitute. Now you can kill the Truant one with EQ and gain a new coverage move. If you don't trust you will get a good new move, drop sub for Stone Edge but look out for revenge killers. Dugtrio is easy to KO. Anyway, once you kill it you will get Truant, but it's unlikely the opponent will have Protect to take advantage of it, and you can kill the next one at +6 and types a new ability. Boom, win.
Can we just quick-ban Slaking & Regigigad. They either sweep on their own or they render a pokemon unless.
Lets say I pair Regigigas + Søaking. I might lead off with Slaking, and then force out my opponents Slaking check - lets say Terrakion. And it might kill Slaking, but now Regigigas has a much easier time sweeping
Lets say I pair Regigigas + Søaking. I might lead off with Slaking, and then force out my opponents Slaking check - lets say Terrakion. And it might kill Slaking, but now Regigigas has a much easier time sweeping
Not quick-banning anything until the meta is coded, because unlike most metas, Slaking and Regigas have no inherent power -- they have to work for it during the match. Definitely a little skeptical about Slaking for a number of reasons, but Regigigas shouldn't be broken. Not only does it do pitiful damage before it loses its ability (unlike Slaking), but there are a bunch of Pokemon that really don't mind its ability (slow Special attackers, walls).
You've also got to keep in mind that if you purposely pass your bad ability to an opponent, they can then do the exact same thing to you -- it's their ability now, after all. And that infamous Dugtrio strategy won't work at all -- the opponent doesn't even need Protect to take advantage of you once you get Truant back from what you used as setup fodder, because nearly any Pokemon can OHKO Dugtrio. But if they do have Protect, all the easier.
I think Slaking and Regigigas will be usable (which is a whole lot better then in standard), but not broken. They have too many exploits to just ban right off the bat.
You've also got to keep in mind that if you purposely pass your bad ability to an opponent, they can then do the exact same thing to you -- it's their ability now, after all. And that infamous Dugtrio strategy won't work at all -- the opponent doesn't even need Protect to take advantage of you once you get Truant back from what you used as setup fodder, because nearly any Pokemon can OHKO Dugtrio. But if they do have Protect, all the easier.
I think Slaking and Regigigas will be usable (which is a whole lot better then in standard), but not broken. They have too many exploits to just ban right off the bat.
Maleovex
Lt. Col. of The Kyergrzstan Killer Beez
The Dugtrio strategy still can work, as you get to attack first turn of truant, and also, Focus Sash would be a much nicer item to run.
Yes, but the point of the strategy is to immediately sweep or otherwise maim the entire enemy team. That can't happen here -- you can maybe nab one kill before Truant kicks in. Fewer, if your opponent runs certain, relatively common Pokemon.
+6 252 Atk Dugtrio Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 179-211 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+5 252 Atk Dugtrio Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 215-253 (56.2 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 220-261 (55.8 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 280-331 (79.5 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Pokemon with priority easily get around Sash as well, unless Dugtrio runs Sucker Punch, which seriously cuts into which Pokemon it can reliably hit.
Another strategy I'd like to mention for people think sandbagging bad abilities is OP: making sure they get passed off to a Mega Pokemon, which can immediately shed the ability by Mega Evolving. Oh no, Charizard has Truant! No wait, it has Tough Caws.
Maleovex
Lt. Col. of The Kyergrzstan Killer Beez
You can maybe nab one kill before truant kicks in? You realise that's all it needs, and then it no longer has truant lol, I'm not saying it's perfect, but I'm saying it's better than what you make it sound out to be
bp scrub
rub a dub dub one scrub in a tub
?
You don't lose your ability if you beat the enemy mon, they get it when your mon is knocked out lol
Maleovex
Lt. Col. of The Kyergrzstan Killer Beez
That's what I was saying, here's what Im saying would happen:
Turn 1: Slaking comes out and dies
Turn 2-13: Dugtrio comes in, sets up to +6, stalling truant turns with protect
Turn 14: Kills Truant mon
Turn 15: Kills the next mon, loses Truant
Technically, it all depends on whether Truant activates next turn or not(as in, does the gaining of Truant count as the first turn of it?)
This is exactly how I outlined it in my post. I don't see where an argument against it is coming from.
If those mons prove to be common and become a problem, then Dugtrio just needs Magnet pull support, or they will be heavily damaged from switching into Slaking's attacks
Confusion about mechanics and gimmicks aside, it seems unwise to run things that are reliant on their ability to function. If Clefable manages to land a kill on, say, Keldeo, then it ain't shit until it can manage to land another on a better Pokemon. Tornadus-T at least has strong attacks and a fantastic speed tier after it loses Regenerator. In particular, Clefable, Mega Altaria, Azumarill, Mega Sableye, Talonflame, Mega Gardevoir, Gliscor, Mega Medicham, Serperior, Mega Pinsir, and Klefki all seem like risky choices. Just going through the S and A ranks.
Hoopa-Unbound will probably be very good here.
Hoopa-Unbound will probably be very good here.
- With something resembling special bulk and incredible mixed offenses, Hoopa-U can probably make good use of many abilities and almost any move it receives.
- Anything KOing it gets stuck with Magician (by default), which is bad.
- If you're good at using Hyperspace Fury when it matters, the opponent could be stuck gaining a useless move, because only Hoopa-U can use Hyperspace Fury.
Has anyone here noted out
?
This pokemon doesn't have that much of a good ability really, and depending on the team, what it loses might not even matter, Anyway Starmie has access to Hydro Pump, Scald, Psychic, Thunderbolt, Ice beam and more, and then before it dying or in a bad situation where it is outspeed and 2HKOed, it can use off a not so good move like rapid spin or something too common like recover in which even if it dies, Offensive pokemon won't normally use Rapid Spin due to LO recoil, and defensive pokemon would already have something like recover so it won't be useful except for PP
And for the other hand, when it kills something it normally will get a much better ability and a nice 5th move, So yeah Starmie is probs usable if not from the best pokemons here
This pokemon doesn't have that much of a good ability really, and depending on the team, what it loses might not even matter, Anyway Starmie has access to Hydro Pump, Scald, Psychic, Thunderbolt, Ice beam and more, and then before it dying or in a bad situation where it is outspeed and 2HKOed, it can use off a not so good move like rapid spin or something too common like recover in which even if it dies, Offensive pokemon won't normally use Rapid Spin due to LO recoil, and defensive pokemon would already have something like recover so it won't be useful except for PP
And for the other hand, when it kills something it normally will get a much better ability and a nice 5th move, So yeah Starmie is probs usable if not from the best pokemons here
Now that I think about it, I think Starmie could be good here. Not only does it have a huge offensive movepool, its ability Illuminate is actually useful here specifically because it doesn't do anything in-battle: If Starmie gets KO'd before landing a KO itself, it passes on Illuminate which will overwrite the opposition's (unless it's something like Truant or Slow Start that gets overwritten) considerably more useful ability, and if it does get a KO it gets a better ability without losing anything of note. Being relatively fast helps as well.Has anyone here noted out?
This pokemon doesn't have that much of a good ability really, and depending on the team, what it loses might not even matter, Anyway Starmie has access to Hydro Pump, Scald, Psychic, Thunderbolt, Ice beam and more, and then before it dying or in a bad situation where it is outspeed and 2HKOed, it can use off a not so good move like rapid spin or something too common like recover in which even if it dies, Offensive pokemon won't normally use Rapid Spin due to LO recoil, and defensive pokemon would already have something like recover so it won't be useful except for PP
And for the other hand, when it kills something it normally will get a much better ability and a nice 5th move, So yeah Starmie is probs usable if not from the best pokemons here
On Dugtrio -- I was tired when I posted and forgot that Dugtrio would lose Truant upon getting the first kill. However, I will say that it still loses to pretty much any priority attack. You don't have the room to run Sucker Punch -- you need Protect/Hone Claws/Earthquake, and without Stone Edge, you lose to non-grounded Pokemon that can play around Sucker Punch (which is a bunch of them). In addition, the whole gimmick fails if you kill Slakang with a Pokemon unaffected by Arena Trap (Flying types, Ghost types, Levitate users, Air Balloon users, Shed Shell users), as you can't set up.
On Hoopa-U, Starmie -- I agree that they will do well. Other than those, off the top of my head I can think of Keldeo, Manaphy, Weavile, Mew, Raikou and Kyurem-B as top-ranked OU Pokemon that function well with or without their ability.
On Hoopa-U, Starmie -- I agree that they will do well. Other than those, off the top of my head I can think of Keldeo, Manaphy, Weavile, Mew, Raikou and Kyurem-B as top-ranked OU Pokemon that function well with or without their ability.
This meta sounds like Mummy insanity xD
Natural abilities are still used for the purposes of wearing down opponents, and Mummy only works with contact moves.
But otherwise...
Yes. VERY YES.
Levitate pokemons will lose Levitate after killing Truant Pokemon...
But yeah - any other Ground/trap effect immunity will destroy Arena Trap strategy, as well like Baton Pass user.
And... Klutz and Stall looks like good abillities to give for oponent. Canceling item and ability effect is good option especialy against stall. Negating speed in other hand destroy fast pokemons especialy Scarf.
This metagame really seems worthy! Just by looking at the description of the metagame players have found new strategies, which just shows how they are ready for this to be on the ladder. My only problem is, there might be cases where the opponent doesn't want to make a move at all being afraid of copying some of the negative abilities (Truant, Slow Start). Not sure if there is something anyone can do about this, but I would really take it into consideration.
Overall, great metagame and seems a lot of fun to play!
-TenucSkenuck
Overall, great metagame and seems a lot of fun to play!
-TenucSkenuck
I'm still not making any final calls until someone codes this, but I've decided that I'll probably ban Truant pretty soon after -- of the negative abilities, it has by far the least counterplay and if you want to you can just stay in until you Struggle or the enemy kills you to pass it on, and inevitably it will get transferred back and forth. While the Dugtrio strat has its weaknesses (most of which I've outlined), in generally its just an obnoxious ability to have around. At least with Slow Start and Defeatist, there are Pokemon that don't mind getting it as much (slow special attackers, walls). We'll see though, could change my mind.
Truant aside, what are some other useful sets you could see yourself using? Are there any moves and abilities that are useful for its native user, but become less useful once they're stolen by most opposing Pokemon?
Truant aside, what are some other useful sets you could see yourself using? Are there any moves and abilities that are useful for its native user, but become less useful once they're stolen by most opposing Pokemon?
Not a strategy but I'm realizing poison heal + toxic orb is pretty much useless in this meta, unless you manage to nab Natural Cure, you've left yourself status'd with (presumably) no reliable recovery. In the event that you get KO'd, your opponent now has a toxic immunity. In other words 'congratulations, you played yourself'. Goodbye Gliscor.
I'm curious, if contrary get's transferred, do current stat changes get reversed, or just ones that have been used after contrary is acquired? If it's the former, the meta just gained an extremely powerful weapon against set-up sweepers that aren't named Serperior.
Hustle is a pretty ok ability here, not perfect, and there aren't really any viable users outside of *maybe* eviolite Zweilous, but while the original Hustle user reaps the rewards of a 1.3x attack bonus, special attackers have nothing to gain but a 20% accuracy drop, making moves like Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, Focus Blast or Hurricane incredibly risky. Plus you can always steal it back with another physical attacker for the extra boost.
I'm curious, if contrary get's transferred, do current stat changes get reversed, or just ones that have been used after contrary is acquired? If it's the former, the meta just gained an extremely powerful weapon against set-up sweepers that aren't named Serperior.
Hustle is a pretty ok ability here, not perfect, and there aren't really any viable users outside of *maybe* eviolite Zweilous, but while the original Hustle user reaps the rewards of a 1.3x attack bonus, special attackers have nothing to gain but a 20% accuracy drop, making moves like Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, Focus Blast or Hurricane incredibly risky. Plus you can always steal it back with another physical attacker for the extra boost.