INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned deucer.
Sub would last if they used U-turn and You could stack spikes safely
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Metagame Metagame Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Celticpride
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Why are you talking like that's hypothetical? You can try it out and play with it in Pokebank OU. I can definitely appreciate that my favorite set of keys is a good Phero check.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned deucer.
The problem is it hasn't been released in poke bank yet else it'd be used a fair amount because outside of skarm/thorn there aren't any good spikes stackers.
I should've adjusted it's defense to take 24% from banded u-turn and put the rest into special defense or attack for sableye
On the note of spikes stack, does Golispod do any well in that role, I know it lets mantine, Pelipper and Zapdos in pretty easly to defog, but I'm just wondering if anyone has had success with it
Sand is still fine, it just didnt get anything new really, but excadrill does check/counter quite a few new meta threats
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INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned deucer.
I've tryed it investing in its bulk cause it looks good on paper, but I never got more than 2 layers up with it dead, I barely got the one layer up most of the time, might be good at spikes in uu? Or ru?
But it is. You can use every Pokemon available (which is everything but Marshadow and a few Megas) on the Pokebank OU ladder.
You guys know Klefki IS available pre-bank, right? Abandoned Megamart? http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/707.shtml
And sure, it can switch into Pheremosa if it ISN'T HJK, but considering that's Pheramosa's best move, it's going to be risky. Also, what can Klefki do to it back? You have to run Play Rough/Dazzling Gleam on it to ensure a KO, sure, that is fine. But if you switch into a HJK, you're going to hurt a lot, and even if you don't, the best you get is Thunder Wave off if you're running it. That's solid, especially if Psychic Terrain doesn't impact Prankster.
I do worry how Klefki fares against the other new threats, though.
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 183-216 (57.5 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 87-103 (27.3 - 32.3%) -- 70.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (okay, solid, lets see Specs)
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 130-153 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery - yikes.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 143-168 (44.9 - 52.8%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery - YIKES. Not terrible though.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Klefki: 261-308 (82 - 96.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock - lmao
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 185-218 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Buzzwole Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 174-205 (54.7 - 64.4%)
The list goes on. Basically, Klefki has a hard time switching in against some of the ridiculous new threats, but DOES offer some potential against Pheromosa and Tapu Lele, arguably the two strongest new offensive threats we have received now. I see it having a similar niche as it did in XY/ORAS OU - utility pivot with good defensive typing that sets up status and maybe Spikes before it goes down.
And sure, it can switch into Pheremosa if it ISN'T HJK, but considering that's Pheramosa's best move, it's going to be risky. Also, what can Klefki do to it back? You have to run Play Rough/Dazzling Gleam on it to ensure a KO, sure, that is fine. But if you switch into a HJK, you're going to hurt a lot, and even if you don't, the best you get is Thunder Wave off if you're running it. That's solid, especially if Psychic Terrain doesn't impact Prankster.
I do worry how Klefki fares against the other new threats, though.
252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 183-216 (57.5 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 87-103 (27.3 - 32.3%) -- 70.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (okay, solid, lets see Specs)
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 130-153 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery - yikes.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 143-168 (44.9 - 52.8%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery - YIKES. Not terrible though.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Klefki: 261-308 (82 - 96.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock - lmao
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 185-218 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, Leftovers recovery, and Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Buzzwole Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 174-205 (54.7 - 64.4%)
The list goes on. Basically, Klefki has a hard time switching in against some of the ridiculous new threats, but DOES offer some potential against Pheromosa and Tapu Lele, arguably the two strongest new offensive threats we have received now. I see it having a similar niche as it did in XY/ORAS OU - utility pivot with good defensive typing that sets up status and maybe Spikes before it goes down.
You can catch Klefki in Sun and Moon. It's available both pre and post bank.
I think some people in the Golisopod thread mentioned having some success with it. It's an interesting Spikes-setter if maybe Sashed to mess around with a pesudo-suicide lead that actually lets you safely bring in a counter to whatever has brought it to Sash. However, you're right in that it's biggest flaw is it can't really do much about a Defogger coming in.
Sand doesn't necessarily like Grassy Terrain out, and Tar doesn't really like all the new Fairies running around, but the archetype is still functional. More overshadowed by all the new toys than particularly unviable. It won't dominate or anything, but Tar+Exca cores still work, and Hippo stall/bulky offense should still be around, especially after the major bans happen. Sand did get Nihilego though, which has pretty good synergy with Hippo and can tank crazy amounts of stuff on the special side with sand up while maintaining good offensive presence.
Just throwing this idea out there, Mega Pinsir might (not tried it yet) be viable with Sand builds. Priority Flying to kill Pheromosa, while Return just wrecks through Grass-types like Tapu Bulu while Koko can be Pursuit trapped by Tyranitar. Needs something to take care of Celesteela and Skarmory though.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 276-328 (68.3 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 164-194 (40.5 - 48%) -- 58.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
AV Tyranitar can't switch into specs Tapu lele because it is 2HKO'd if it predicts incorrectly.
I still like using Shadow Ball and Focus Blast on Tapu Lele as it makes her completely "unwallable". Shadow ball is a nice option for hitting Gross and Jirachi super effectively. Thunderbolt and Hp fire definitely have their uses though as seen in the calc's. Psyshock can hit some things just as hard as what super effective T-Bolt can (will show on Manaphy calc).
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Heatran: 314-370 (81.5 - 96.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 154-182 (40 - 47.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Despite how crazy this calc is, Tapu Lele can't quite 2hko Heatran with specs Psyshock.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 328-388 (93.1 - 110.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 208-246 (51.4 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 155-183 (38.3 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Focus blast clearly can not 2hko SpDef Jirachi...
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 156-184 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Jirachi can handle Hp fire easily so shadow ball is better for this.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 314-370 (104.3 - 122.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(Metagross doesn't get its buffed SpDef on switch in)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 236-278 (78.4 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 235-277 (78 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Shadow ball is better on Metagross because it OHKO's on the switch in and can't KO back by out speeding on the following turn.
Celesteela is one of the best switch ins to Specs Tapu Lele running Focus Blast and Shadow Ball. Even then, Psyshock hits Celesteela harder than Focus Blast if it is max SpDef.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 153-181 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 158-186 (39.6 - 46.7%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 154-182 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 230-272 (57.7 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
With only leech seed as recovery, Celesteela is a very shaky switch in to Tapu Lele not even running T-bolt or HP Fire. Sure Specs Thunderbolt will easily 2hko Celesteela, the trade off against missing the OHKO on Metagross and 2HKO on Jirachi in my opinion is not worth it. Especially when Celesteela is straight up 2hko'd by Psyshock with the tiniest bit of prior damage. Hp Fire does less than Psyshock.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 470-554 (167.2 - 197.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 236-278 (83.9 - 98.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 194-229 (58 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (sets lacking Hp Fire and T-Bolt can already 2HKO Skarm, just not as reliably.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 324-382 (95 - 112%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Manaphy: 322-379 (94.4 - 111.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Psyshock can already get a guaranteed OHKO on Manaphy after rocks!
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 291-343 (77.8 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Obviously T-bolt is a OHKO but is it really mandatory to get the OHKO on this thing when psyshock already does so much damage to it? Scald doesn't
do much back to Lele.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 429-505 (66.8 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Psyshock allows the easy 2HKO on Chansey.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Scizor-Mega: 178-210 (51.8 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Scizor-Mega: 360-424 (104.9 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Scizor-Mega: 360-424 (104.9 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Scizor-Mega: 150-177 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Hp Fire is better here but Focus can still 2HKO if you get lucky and hit twice. Scizor can't bullet punch you back in terrain. Psychic being a 2hko after rocks is disgusting.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 390-459 (120.7 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 96 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian: 264-312 (81.7 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
You can just OHKO a Torn-T from full without Stealth Rock when not using Psychic.
Just to show how beast this thing is...
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Klefki: 174-205 (54.7 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 170-202 (53.4 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 143-168 (44.9 - 52.8%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 170-200 (53.4 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Magearna is just 2HKO'd by Focus Blast and Hp Fire as well.
So yeah, Tapu Lele is almost impossible to reliably switch into (edit: Clair mentioned AV Muk)
If Tapu Lele predicts correctly and goes for Moonblast Muk loses 29.7 - 35%, a 3hko after rocks. Tapu Lele can just stay in and fire off another Moonblast. If Muk goes for Pursuit it does only 20.6-24.5%, allowing Tapu Lele to fire off another one and finishing Muk off. Obviously this is in Muk's favour since it can OHKO with Gunk Shot and punish choice locked psychic STAB, but it is hardly reliable. Muk may not be a complete pushover, but I daresay there are much better Pokemon in OU that one would want to spend a valuable team slot on.
0 Atk Muk Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 58-69 (20.6 - 24.5%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
If Lele switches Muk does less than half with Pursuit, meaning Lele is free to try and do damage again later.
Compared to Hoopa U, it's Psyshock hits harder, it's immune to priority, is faster, and has better defensive typing. Hoopa U has the edge with power on it's coverage moves, ability to go physical and slightly better SpDef. I think Tapu Lele is a complete monster and sadly it will inevitably get banned. It's just way too much for OU. I haven't even mentioned yet how good the scarf set is but it is phenomenal. A scarfer immune to priority is just insane, especially a special attacker that can 2HKO Chansey after stealth rock!
252+ SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 286-337 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
For those saying they think that a choice item is not a good idea on Tapu Lele because Dark Types can take advantage with pursuit have clearly forgotten what set it was that pushed Hoopa-U over the edge last gen. Psssst... It was specs.
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Been running AV Muk to deal with Lele and Psy-spam:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Muk: 123-145 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- 19.9% chance to 3HKO
Poison Touch and STAB Knock Off make it surprisingly hard to switch into. Alomomola also seems really nice so far, despite the competition from Toxapex, due to how much things like Muk, Celesteela, Marowak etc appreciate its Wish support.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Muk: 123-145 (29.7 - 35.1%) -- 19.9% chance to 3HKO
Poison Touch and STAB Knock Off make it surprisingly hard to switch into. Alomomola also seems really nice so far, despite the competition from Toxapex, due to how much things like Muk, Celesteela, Marowak etc appreciate its Wish support.
Alright the ban talk is done now, I think I cleaned this thread of all of it from Subject 18's to here. The SR discussion should not be taking place here, and neither should discussion of Z-moves bans. Those are taking place in Policy Review. If you can't post in PR and are getting salty about it, PM someone who can post there to post on your behalf, that's been done before on several occasions. But, no more ban discussion here. The On The Radar thread was a more than generous opportunity for the community to express their views on the tier going forward. Posts regarding bans from here on out will be deleted. PM me if you have an issue with the way posts in this thread are being moderated and I'll be happy to explain further.
Did you mean to calc A-Muk? Because I can promise you regular Muk will be eviscerated by Psyshock. Assuming you did mean A-Muk (they have the same stat distribution) isn't it ridiculous that we need to use a mon with (after AV) 413 HP and 492 Sp. Def. to check this thing? I mean, my god. Plus there's the fact that A-Muk can't reliably recover either, so its longevity as a Lele check over the course of a game is not exactly ideal.
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8 Atk Muk-Alola Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Lele: 115-136 (40.9 - 48.3%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Muk has Pursuit, which can be used to wear down Tapu Lele and remove it after some damage. If you play right, it won't need to face Tapu Lele more than two times.
Fair point, but my point of having to go to the extreme of having to do max Sp.Def. AV to get 413 HP and 492 Sp. Def. to check one mon being a bit ridiculous remains. However, I am glad to see that we are at least finding some checks to it. Which brings the list to.....A-Muk and what? I've heard people say M-Meta and Jirachi but doesn't Shadow Ball kinda tear through them?
curse rest A/Msa I have found does amazing against psychic spam teams. Take out their ground coverage and its a dam good win condition. also sets up on toxapex who stays in trying to get the scald burn. havent had one yet that seemed to expect the rest/talk
Some Toxapex run Haze though, so won't that be a problem in the longer run?
perhaps in the future but even though the haze set is probaly the objectivity better set its still early in the meta so people are still running other sets more commonly, plus rest talk/muk out stalls haze/toxapex every-time I have come across one.
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So. Not that he'll ever be OU material again, but I've just noticed that Flygon was finally given Dragon Dance in his heart scale movepool.
I also considered using Flygon for a bizarre utility set of like Defog+U-Turn+Roost/Tailwind/Toxic, since he's immune to spikes/Tspikes and resists Stealth Rock, but there are probably better mons for that already.
EDIT: Unrelatedly to Flygon, which terrain would be the best to run on a Sand team to override Bulu's GT? Misty Fini, maybe? shrug
I also considered using Flygon for a bizarre utility set of like Defog+U-Turn+Roost/Tailwind/Toxic, since he's immune to spikes/Tspikes and resists Stealth Rock, but there are probably better mons for that already.
EDIT: Unrelatedly to Flygon, which terrain would be the best to run on a Sand team to override Bulu's GT? Misty Fini, maybe? shrug
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I'm not exactly a great player at all to begin with, but I tried out Flygon and found it to be a bit lacking as a DDance sweeper. Base 100 attack and speed just don't really do enough at +1. Some scarfers are base 100 or just higher, and there are still plenty of things that can take +1 attacks fairly well. Disappointing that everyone's beloved Flygon isn't all that great still. Garchomp and Zygarde are still much better Dragon-Ground options.
I would say Misty as you're likely rolling with Ttar and Excadrill, neither of which wants to be burned.
Lol I'm so tempted to make a flygon team.
The dragon dance actually helps a lot, as he needs everything he can get to squeeze all the speed and power he can out of those bitty 100 stats. Give him a life orb and can almost do something after magnezone does some work.
The interesting thing is that flygon is probably one of the better dragon dancers now, as we have learned from salamence: its all about that non-dragon stab. Sure, dragonite might be able to get two dances but dragon is a horrid attacking type now and his best flying move is special. Flygon on the other hand has access to edge quake, with stab on the quake. The main thing holding him back is not having 120 attack. :(
The dragon dance actually helps a lot, as he needs everything he can get to squeeze all the speed and power he can out of those bitty 100 stats. Give him a life orb and can almost do something after magnezone does some work.
The interesting thing is that flygon is probably one of the better dragon dancers now, as we have learned from salamence: its all about that non-dragon stab. Sure, dragonite might be able to get two dances but dragon is a horrid attacking type now and his best flying move is special. Flygon on the other hand has access to edge quake, with stab on the quake. The main thing holding him back is not having 120 attack. :(
I would definitely run Tapu Lele. Its psychic terrain, of course, gets rid of grassy terrain, but it also allows Lele to be a powerful wallbreaker. This thing tears apart stuff like Rotom and Lando when they come in against it. Sand teams don't have special wallbreakers that abuse sand, so there's little opportunity cost in this sense. Most importantly, psychic terrain negates priority, so Excadrill/Lycanroc/Stoutland (lol) don't have to worry about Mach Punches or Aqua Jets.
Tapu Fini is fine I guess if you're concerned about status and a bulky water/defogger would be beneficial to your team.
And before anyone mentions Mixed Mega Chomp, it's a primarily physical breaker with a few special options; it isn't primarily a special attacker and sand doesn't buff Fire Blast/Draco. Tapu Lele is a better wallbreaker regardless.
Ema Skye Banryu specifically said that the question about sand had nothing to do with Flygon. That said, you have a point about Lele; it probably shouldn't get paired with anything that wants to fire off Dragon-type moves.
Based on what random passerby said and the sand discussion I'm thinking a team with Tapu Lele/Mega Pinsir/Ttar/Exca/Filler/Filler could be fun. It would need answer to stuff like Pheromosa, rain offense, Genesect, etc, so idk what the other slots would be.
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Ema Skye
Work!
Misty Terrain halves damage from dragon attacks so I wouldn't consider running Fini + Flygon
Lele would be the best as it smashes Flygon's counters like you said.
S'far as the sand thing goes... So I like the idea of the TTar/Edrill/Fini core. Defog means I probably want something to be able to take advantage of that, I guess, so maybe Megazard Y for offense/ground immunity and Nihilego to take advantage of sand (and because I want to use her shrug). Zone would probably also help for Nihilego to potentially sweep but yikes all the ground weaknesses. Probably need something better to deal with Chomp as well...?
I'm basically just spitballing here, IDFK... I'm not good at formulating teams lol, just the movesets at best. Just think it'd be cool if sand wasn't totally gone.
I'm also wondering how the Defog/Tailwind/U-turn support flygon I proposed above would go with like a Alolawak/Bulu/MGyara core or something. I'd like to try it out but don't typically have time to do much more than theorymon on here lol.
I'm basically just spitballing here, IDFK... I'm not good at formulating teams lol, just the movesets at best. Just think it'd be cool if sand wasn't totally gone.
Here's hoping he works well in lower tiers based on that. @3@
I'm also wondering how the Defog/Tailwind/U-turn support flygon I proposed above would go with like a Alolawak/Bulu/MGyara core or something. I'd like to try it out but don't typically have time to do much more than theorymon on here lol.
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