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Metagame in Progress: "Project Uber!"

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by FreeVelocity, Aug 4, 2013.

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  1. FreeVelocity

    FreeVelocity

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    The reason Vespiquen is Ubers is its Speed Stat over doubled from 40 to 85, and the moves Heal Order, Defend Order, and Attack Order have been buffed.
    Defend Order:
    Now boosts Defense by one, Sp. Defense by one, Attack by one, Sp. Attack by one, Speed by one.

    Attack Order:
    Now gets power lowered to 60 base power, with an auto-crit and 30% chance to flinch.

    Heal Order:
    Now heals status, as well as it's previous effect of healing 50% of MAX HP.

    Also, I'm going to keep the Pokemon that have already been made, but balance stuff one at a time by tiers now. This should be ready for coding by next week.
  2. Chaoswalker

    Chaoswalker

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    Here's some ideas for making OU pokes Uber. I made sure to mantain a few flaws, as every pokemon needs a weakness.

    [​IMG]Alakazam
    Magic Guard is excellent, and he could hardly ask for a better ability. Still, he has competetion with Mewtwo and Deoxys A, meaning he has to have his own niche in between the two. Bulkier than Deoxys A, but more class cannon than mewtwo.
    OU: HP 55 Atk 50 Def 45 SpA 135 SpD 85 Spe 120
    U: HP 70 Atk 50 Def 55 SpA 165 SpD 85 Spe 135
    Psystrike

    [​IMG]Blissey
    Blissey is an excellent wall, and would be Uber worthy if it weren't for its miniscule defense stat. That stat should be enough for passive hits, but still exploitable. Like this, Blissey can take a few physical hits, but certainly won't be switching into huge choice banded or boosted attacks.
    OU: HP 255 Atk 10 Def 10 SpA 75 SpD 135 Spe 55
    U: HP 255 Atk 10 Def 55 SpA 75 SpD 135 Spe 55

    [​IMG]Breloom
    I'd rather not change Breloom's overall function, as it can allready use so many different movesets. As such I'll just push all of its stats up slightly, but mostly the defenses so it can tank resisted attacks.
    OU: HP 60 Atk 130 Def 80 SpA 60 SpD 60 Spe 70
    U: HP 90 Atk 150 Def 110 SpA 80 SpD 90 Spe 90

    [​IMG]Celebi
    Another pokemon that can perform a lot of functions. Defensive, offensive, support, etc. Even more so than Breloom does Celebi just want an all around boost.
    OU: HP 100 Atk 100 Def 100 SpA 100 SpD 100 Spe 100
    U: HP 120 Atk 120 Def 120 SpA 120 SpD 120 Spe 120

    EDIT:
    NU is huge. I'm looking at Smogon now, and I'm seeing 206 pokemon in there. Perhaps we should take the 1st 100 first?
    Perhaps Alomomola>Kingler.
    Also, should we ignore NFEs?
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
  3. FreeVelocity

    FreeVelocity

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    As for Alakazam, that might be too high. But, it needs to compare with Deoxys-Attack. I was actually thinking of keeping his base stats exactly the same, but making him invincible on his turn of switch. (If a Pokemon faints and you switch to Alakazam, he is not invincible, only if you switch your Pokemon rather than using a move, you know.)

    Now, for Blissey. I agree, but it already has a role in Ubers by comparing even to Lugia in bulk. Maybe if you gave Blissey the ability Regenerator, that would be cool, rather than buffing it in defense.

    Agreeing with Breloom too.. but the overall jump in stats may be too high, as Breloom is actually already slightly viable in Ubers with Spore, I say we don't raise any stats except its speed. Instead of the current 70 speed, we give it 110. Also, are there any fighting type multihit moves?

    Perfectly fine with Celebi, too.

    And in regards to the NU thing, I say yeah, Alomomola to Kingler. I'll balance everything I made so far, too.
  4. Chaoswalker

    Chaoswalker

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    You should probably edit the OP so posters know what the current focus of the project is.

    [​IMG]Alomomola
    If anyone has ever used Alomomola in Tiershift, you know it desperately wants to be physical blissey. That makes the decision tough. If Ferrothorn and Jellicent are any indication though, mixed defenses are much more versatile. A special attack boost makes waterspout slightly usable.
    NU: Hp 165 Atk 75 Def 80 SpA 40 SpD 45 Spe 65
    U: Hp 220 Atk 75 Def 100 SpA 95 SpD 80 Spe 65
    Heal Bell
    Water Spout

    [​IMG]Altaria
    As a dragon, Altaria has a very nice set of resistances to take advantage of, as well as some powerful offensive moves. HP and defense boosts allow it to take hits and lend support, while some offensive boosts allow use of draco meteor and a bulky dragon dance. And... a few new support moves.
    NU: Hp 75 Atk 70 Def 90 SpA 70 SpD 105 Spe 80
    U: Hp 105 Atk 100 Def 120 SpA 100 SpD 135 Spe 100
    Whirlwind
    Thunder wave

    [​IMG]Ampharos
    Static is doing Amphy no favors. Perhaps static should always paralyze on contact? Or it could get something more useful like volt absorb. As for stats, it has a very tanky build to take advantage of. A little dragon tail lets it take even further advantage of the bulk. Or, maybe it should have a special electric variant of Dragon Tail/Circle throw.
    NU: Hp 90 Atk 75 Def 75 SpA 115 SpD 90 Spe 55
    U: Hp 115 Atk 75 Def 100 SpA 130 SpD 110 Spe 55
    Dragon Tail

    EDIT: I think there ought to be some discussion as to the actual method of making pokemon Uber. For example, is it ok to just change the effects of moves/abilities? Can we change a pokemon's stats all willy nilly? How much can we alter a pokemon's original strategy/flavor? Should we be conservative with changes so we don't need to play with a spreadsheet to know what pokemon have become, or should we take whatever measures necessary to ensure maximum balance?
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2013
  5. ntiller

    ntiller

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    I once attempted something like this, but gave up due to not really knowing how to code. Here were some of my ideas if you're interested:

    Critical hits never occur from chance.

    General Move Changes:
    Leech Seed, Will-o-wisp, Dragon Tail, Circle Throw, V-Create, Spacial Rend, Sacred Fire and Toxic are all 100% accurate.
    All moves with high critical hit ratios now have half base power and are guaranteed to crit.
    Freeze as a secondary effect removed from all moves and replaced with a flinch chance.
    Baton Pass no longer passes bad things other than stat drops (Curse, Perish Song, Leech Seed etc are not passed). Has +1 Priority.

    General Ability Changes
    Natural Cure restores status at the end of each turn.
    Pickup now removes all hazards from your side of the field on switch in.
    Run Away- User automatically switches out after executing their move. (Gives all moves, even non attacks, U-Turn mechanics).

    Specific Pokemon Changes (Move/Item changes that only matter for a specific pokemon are also listed here)
    Whimsicott
    + Spore

    Sableye
    + Destiny Bond + Thunder Wave

    Mew
    New Ability: Versatile- User can carry up to 8 moves (extra moves are entered in text edit mode).

    Ninjask
    New Ability: Ninjutsu- User is immune to everything the turn it switches in (hazards and attacks). This is broken without species clause or if you decide to give it to more than one Pokemon.

    Zoroark
    Night Daze now has 45 BP, 8 PP, and is guaranteed to flinch.

    Articuno
    New Ability: Icy Maelstrom- Automatically freezes a foe that stays in versus Articuno for 4 turns (at the end of the fourth turn).
    New Stats: 110/50/110/100/130/100

    Zapdos
    New Ability: Lightning Maelstrom: Does 12.5% Electric Type damage to foe (same mechanics as SR) when either user or foe switches in.
    + Hurricane
    New Stats:100/70/100/125/104/101

    Moltres
    New Ability: Fiery Maelstrom- Does 6.25% Fire Type damage to all other Pokemon at the end of each turn. Does 12.5 % in the sun and nothing in the rain.
    New Stats: 100/80/90/130/100/100

    Smeargle
    Now has 100 base speed.

    Spinda
    Teeter Dance got nerfed. It now confuses the foe and gives the user -3 Atk, -3 Spa, -3 Def, -3 Spd, and -3 Spe.
    Spinda was just too good before, so we had to make it weaker so the rest of the metagame could compete.

    Latios/Latias
    Soul Dew Changed- If the holder is Latios or Latias and you have a fainted Latios or Latias on your team, on switch in the holder gets +3 Spa and +3 Spd, restores status and health and loses this item.

    Spiritomb
    New Stats: 119/80/105/100/105/91
    +Recover

    Chandelure
    Shadow Tag is released

    Wobbuffet
    +Mirror Coat +Recover +Taunt

    Regirock
    New Ability: Sand Stream
    +Recover

    Regice
    New Ability: Magic Bounce
    +Recover

    Registeel
    New Ability: Unaware
    + Recover

    Mr. Mime
    New Ability: Invisible Wall- Attacks with Base Power 90 or greater do not affect Mr. Mime.

    Cresselia
    Lunar Dance now restores status and heals 50% health.

    Ambipom
    Has access to Run Away instead of Skill Link.
    -Fake Out (Too good with Run Away)

    Entei
    Has access to Run Away instead of Pressure

    Blaziken
    + Baton Pass (with Speed Boost)

    Jirachi
    Has access to Magic Bounce and Serene Grace.
    + Baton Pass

    Manaphy
    + Baton Pass

    Blissey/Chansey
    -Rest (This is too good with Natural Cure)

    Goal of these changes is to create a metagame where offense, stall and combo are all roughly equally viable. I also wanted to make individual Pokemon feel more unique and focused on creating unique mechanics. There are a lot more, but these are some of the ones I'm most proud of. Please note that when I invented new abilities, that they are unique to a specific Pokemon and are the only ability that that Pokemon can have. Abilities that already exist and were changed exist wherever they used to, unless otherwise mentioned. Also, these changes were made in the context of each other. I would be wary of adding the Jirachi, Manaphy and Blaziken buffs without adding the Sableye and Whimsicott buffs as well, for instance.

    Let me know what you think!
  6. Monte Cristo

    Monte Cristo Shots fired
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    Looking at the current changes, I'm really starting to see LACK of uber knowledge being put into this metagamae, from what I've seen, this jsut seems like Brokefest 101 instead of lets make everything ubers viable.

    The reason I Doubt uber knowledge is because, a common misconception is that ubers is just a brokefest, which is not true at all, ubers may be broken, but it's brokenly BALANCED. From the current changes and even proposed changes I can see this misconception playing into why this comes off as a brokefest and a general unappealing tier.

    I am was about to come in here to get the info to code it, but after reading up, I was"turned off" by the proposed and current changes due to the lack of true thought being input into this and more of breaking everything as a concern. again, I'm not hating, I'm just trying to say gather some knowledge on the actual ubers tier before getting other pokemon to mimic the current ubers pokemon and just be ubers viable.

    Trust me, I've made a couple of game mod ideas before, I get it, it's not the easiest thing in the world to do, if you need ideas or in general an ubers player who would be able and willing to have some advice to balance out the ideas, ask in the thread, ask on showdown, as on irc, whatever or even contact me if you really need it, but I have no power of what you will do, or what you need to do to have a thread stand in the OMs threads, All in all, I'm just saying I'm staying away from proramming this 'till it evens out.

    In general the pool of good and truly balanced game mods has been lacking currently and it's hard to draw true inspiration, so I'm not bashing on you, I understand how annoying and hard it can be to do this. Just saying there are ways to balance it out and make this have more appeal, I would HATE to see this be ignored or just end up as bad or unbalanced the more recent game mods have been, jsut trying to ofer a few words of advice ~~ Oi
    AWailOfATail likes this.
  7. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald Professional
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    My biggest problem that hasn't been voiced is that you seem to be making up crazy new mechanics. I'd rather see everything balanced by mostly existing means (new moves, high stats, new abilities) with a few signature moves and different stuff thrown in there. All these new mechanics seems like it'd be really tough to learn. Just my .25 cent
    Monte Cristo likes this.
  8. Chaoswalker

    Chaoswalker

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    Yeah... never played Ubers. That might a problem, huh?
    Perhaps it would be a better idea to bring everything to OU level, the most played tier.
  9. ntiller

    ntiller

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    My thinking was that merely creating a bunch more "traditional ubers" wouldn't really do much to change the way the game is played. I wanted to create abilities that would place a greater emphasis on mechanical synergy and power than big numbers and the words "It's super effective!"
  10. dedic

    dedic

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    do you have an auto crit fetish or something? ive seen like 2 moves that get auto crit with this.
  11. ntiller

    ntiller

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    Auto Crit was added to balance out the fact that regular crits were removed. It was to provide an additional check to defense boosting.
  12. Celever

    Celever

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    "-If only Zapdos uses Drill Peck, it now has 70 power, auto-crits, and has 50% chance to flinch. -If only Zapdos uses Thunder, it will always hit, and break substitute before doing damage. -Zapdos now has the ability Speed Boost, and boosts his speed one stage after every full turn."

    Am I the only person who sees an issue with this?


    Edit: I understand it was a joke, but NERFING SPINDA is the OPPOSITE of this metagame. It should be called nerfmons.

    Actually I'm going to request that now hold on a sec.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2013
  13. Magolor

    Magolor

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    Okay, I used to play some of these mod OMs a good few months back but most of them faltered by either putting competiveness at the sake of fun (Old Duskmod) or being too OP and crazy (I'll admit that NUV2 ended up being like that.) And this one falls so deep into the latter that I don't even think it can be salvaged. Take for example Azelf.

    -If only Azelf uses the move Extrasensory, it keeps its base power of 80, and if used on the first turn of Azelf being in play, has +2 priority and always makes the foe flinch. (Fake Out) Removes sub before doing damage.

    This is one of the worst examples of making something OP I've seen. Basically an Extremespeed that completely Shuts down the entire team unless A. You have a Dark Type or B. It runs out of PP. I know this is supposed to fit lower tier pokemon into the Ubers metagame but I'm pretty sure that if that Extrasensory thing was put in there Azelf would be banned from Ubers (Or at least some sort of clause would be added to prevent Azelf from forcing everyone to run multiple Dark types.)

    Sorry if this post is a bit confusing/muddled.

    EDIT: Oh godamnit I read it wrong. I didn't read the part where it only flinches on the first turn of play. I thought it fliched every turn.

    Jesus it seems every time I post on Smogon I make the most noobish of mistakes...
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
    Monte Cristo likes this.
  14. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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    ^ So it can basically use a 360 BP move against anything slower if it doesn't miss and getting 50% recovery if using lefties
  15. Pikachuun

    Pikachuun

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    While I agree the 80 BP and breaking sub is a bit unnecessary, Extrasensory is only is usable on the first turn, so it's basically fake out, just a bit more broken. Basically: Azelf gets STAB Fake Out that has twice the power and ignores sub.
  16. AWailOfATail

    AWailOfATail

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    I know it's LC, but I couldn't resist.

    Bidoof: 300/300/300/300/300/300
    Now gets ability "Bidoof", only allowing the move Tackle. Tackle can now affect Ghost types and is regularly effective against Steel types.

    OK, back to serious.

    Arbok: A.K.A. Kobra. King of the snakes should have some perks, right?
    Wrap now acts like Perish Song for the opponent. After 3 turns of Wrap, the opponent faints unless Arbok is KO'd.
    NU: HP 80 Att 85 Def 69 SpAtt 65 SpDef 79 Spd 80
    U: HP 100 Att 150 Def 100 SpAtt 75 SpDef 100 Spd 100
    + Super Fang
    - Sucker Punch (WTF GameFreak? It doesn't even have arms!)

    Ariados: It's a frickin' spider. They're pretty fast. I think.
    Also has a 50% chance to Toxic the opponent with any physical attack.
    NU: HP 70 Att 90 Def 70 SpAtt 60 SpDef 60 Spd 40
    U: HP 100 Att 140 Def 70 SpAtt 70 SpDef 70 Spd 160
    + Poison Fang (now has 100 BP and 16 BP)

    Armaldo: Fossils should be pretty tanky.
    NU: HP 75 Att 125 Def 100 SpAtt 70 SpDef 80 Spd 45
    U: HP 125 Att 130 Def 125 SpAtt 70 SpDef 125 Spd 50
    Armaldo now evolves into Corsola. Therefore, Eviolite works. (Maybe.)
  17. Snaquaza

    Snaquaza

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  18. Pikachuun

    Pikachuun

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    They can in Showdown (I think) :p

    EDIT: Arbok gets Sucker Punch because the Japanese Version calls it Surprise Attack.
    Monte Cristo likes this.
  19. ntiller

    ntiller

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    Spinda got a huge buff with the Teeter Dance "nerf". Contrary + Teeter Dance gives Spinda a move that gives +3 to everything and confuses the opponent. If Spinda gets a turn to set up, it can be pretty deadly.

    Not really. First of all, the opponent gets leftovers recovery also. Second of all, you should switch out after the first Night Daze to something that can better take a 45 BP special dark move, or that can outspeed Zoroark, or that gets a bonus from sitting in play, etc. I mean, you've got Blaziken, Blissey, Registeel, Regiice, Regirock (also damages Zoroark), pranksters, Ninjask, Entei, Ambipom, Articuno (assuming no rocks and no fire blast on Zoroark), and basically everything with more than 105 speed that can hurt Zoroark worse than Zoroark can hurt it (hi, Terrakion).

    It's not like Zoroark has Shadow Tag.
  20. Inferstrain

    Inferstrain

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    Okay, what I'm saying has been said too much around here, but I'm still saying it. This is broken. Seriously. You picked your favorite pokemon, and buffed them to high enough levels that even Ubers itself can't keep up with. Vespiqueen, despite a 4x stealth rock weakness, is now one of the biggest threats in the entire game. There is now absolutely 0 reason to use Deo-D at all, because there's that 160/160/160 registeel, with defenses that rival Shuckle's. And Zapdos has a 70 BP autocrit move that makes you flinch half the time. Also, some Pokemon were boosted better than others. Compare Vespiqueen, an NU pokemon, with Aerodactyl, an RU pokemon.

    Vespiqueen got:
    - Extreme boost to Defend and Attack orders, and by extreme, i mean they become almost unstoppable.
    - What is now the best boosting move in the game. A boost to all stats with no drawbacks whatsoever.
    - Stats buff. No longer THAT slow. Can outspeed a few walls.

    Aerodactyl got:
    - Head Smash.

    I understand what you're trying to do. This metagame is okay, but please make every pokemon an okay choice in an Ubers team. These dont mean just stat boosts. You gave a very good example. Espeon is OU, but is often seen in Ubers due to its very rare and useful ability, even without the ability it can hold its own, as well. Try to apply this to every pokemon you boost. Give them an unique trait.

    All that aside, good luck. I look foward to trying this metagame when (if) it's out. :)
    Monte Cristo likes this.
  21. toxicroaker

    toxicroaker

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    Toxicroak
    83/106/65/86/65/85 | 490
    100/110/80/90/80/100 | 560

    I think thats all he needs to be viable in ubers :D (I did have 120 hp, 50%heal from water attack and 25% heal in rain but that is to much) He already had a nitch in rain on OU so with some boosted stats he can be in ubers to
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  22. AWailOfATail

    AWailOfATail

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    So basically, with a speed boost from let's say Ninjask, it can outspeed a lot of stuff. If its faster, it can't be killed in the rain as long as it still has PP for Substitute. Great. I know you like Toxicroak, but this is ridiculous.

    I agree with Inferstrain. I don't know if my previous ideas were broken, but some of this stuff is just too much. What are we gonna do when we get to our favorite pokes? I'm scared of what Jirachi might become.
  23. Torterragatr

    Torterragatr

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    Seconding what others have said. Although centralization is not a big issue in traditional Ubers, where the main checks for the most popular mons would probably still be used even if they didn't exist because the pool of viable ones is so small (also the reason why Ubers is not a "broke-fest"), in PrU it sure is because the goal is to make every single Pokémon with a NU to Ubers analysis viable, so no Pokémon can completely outclass another. The Pokémon don't necessarily need to be broken enough to be kicked out of OU imo, just decent enough to have a good niche in Ubers, like Ferrothorn.

    Anyway, instead of just choosing random Pokémon that I like, the rest of this post will be 100% turtle-focused. Project Ubers: Turtle Edition. Because turtles are great! Right?

    Torkoal: Gets a Fire/Steel typing (wouldn't a Fire/Steel Torkoal look cool?). Special Attack and Defense become 100, and HP becomes 90. It learns Recover and Morning Sun. Pick one. Also gets the neat support moves Roar and Heal Bell, as well as Wonder Skin in case status tries to ruin your day.

    Blastoise: Hydration!

    120 HP
    90 Attack
    70 Defense
    100 Special Attack
    150 Special Defense
    78 Speed

    It would be comparable to Kyogre somewhat, except trading lots of power, physical defense, and speed for Rapid Spin, recovery, and lots of special bulk. A CM Rest set would just be obnoxious to the extreme. Wartortle gets 100 / 70 / 80 / 80 / 110 / 58 instead, trading off even more power for bulk with Eviolite.

    Carracosta will have the ability Dry Skin (not the buffed Toxicroak one, just regular) along with dual 120 offenses and 70 Speed. Unfortunately, to keep it from being centralizing, its somewhat lackluster bulk is kept.

    Shuckle is not quuite as turtle as the others, but it deserves a mention, no? Anyway, my idea will be to split Shuckle into two formes. The first forme is more-or-less the Shuckle we know and love, only with 50 HP instead of 20—believe it or not, regular!Shuckle's overall bulk isn't actually all it's cracked up to be, mostly because of its terrible HP stat—Heal Bell, and Leech Seed. (I was going to go Balanced Hackmons and give it Prankster too, but that might be a little too much. Let's just see how the metagame ends up and change it accordingly.) The second forme is completely just Shuckle with the offensive and defensive stats reversed; in other words, Shuckle gets a free Power Trick. It probably won't be that useful in the long run, but Trick Room is a tasty possibility. Obviously we're calling this forme the Truckle Forme.

    And finally the coolest turtle of all, Torterra, gets Solid Rock, Rapid Spin, Shell Smash, Recover (nah changed my mind), and these stats:

    110 HP
    120 Attack
    130 Defense (great Groudon check)
    75 Special Attack
    95 Special Defense
    65 Speed

    I wouldn't want to see what happens to that tree on its back after a smash, though. Sounds painful. If I have some free time later, I'll write a second post on prehistoric Pokémon!
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  24. Monte Cristo

    Monte Cristo Shots fired
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    Pokemon:
    Keldeo
    Description: I want keldeo to be uber kuz it's my favorite pokeman, so yeh

    givee it 182 spec atk
    183 atk
    137 defense
    157 sdef
    199 speed
    and
    120 HP
    maek it so that it's hydro pimp is 678.945768 Base Power and gets triples STAB
    same for it's sekret sawrd

    make it's hydro pump laos have auto crit sleep para fusion and make magikarp al u need
    give it drizzle, adaptabillity, swift swim, sand rush and multitype and make it water/fighting/fairy/arceus type pls

    keldeo should have thees becuz it kil stuf and uber it pls ~~ My attempt to try to do one of these buffs

    there IS a pokemon rumble blast reference in here, for you guys who played that game
  25. toxicroaker

    toxicroaker

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    changed all dry skin back and took 20 off of hp
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
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