Actually, Sturdy Shell Smash Shuckle sounds fine
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter Uselesscrab
- Start date
- Status
(Pet Mod)
Changemons
A pet mod in which people can suggest small changes to happen to things, Whether it be give a Pokémon a new move, changing the effects of a move (must be real effects. You can't make up effects like "Sky Terrain"), changing a Pokémon types stats abilities etc, changing ability effects, and even make a mega for a mon. The goal is to make an entirely new meta from all our changes, to make a different OU with more mons to run, more viable items, and different ability options. Here are the exact details:
Changing Pokémon:
EDIT: Actually added a goal for the mod.
Changemons
A pet mod in which people can suggest small changes to happen to things, Whether it be give a Pokémon a new move, changing the effects of a move (must be real effects. You can't make up effects like "Sky Terrain"), changing a Pokémon types stats abilities etc, changing ability effects, and even make a mega for a mon. The goal is to make an entirely new meta from all our changes, to make a different OU with more mons to run, more viable items, and different ability options. Here are the exact details:
Changing Pokémon:
- You may buff the stats up to a BST of 570. If the BST is between 570 and 599, the limit becomes 600 (examples include Articuno and Guzzlord). If the BST is 600 or more, then you can only move the stat points around (you must lower a stat to raise another. Examples include Kommo-o and Necrozma).
- Types may be changed, but they must have at least one of the original typings (Yanmega can be either Bug/Dragon or Flying/Dragon but it can't be Psychic/Dragon)
- A max of five moves can be given to the Pokémon.
- Abilities can be changed, but the same amount of abilities it had must be conserved.
- You can also nerf Pokémon (ie: you can nerf Blazikenite and Aegislash) to make them stable. If the Pokémon being nerfed has more than 600 BST, it must be lowered to that as a maximum.
- Existing megas can be changed, but if Pokémon stats are changed, they should update in the mega as well.
- Up to 30 new megas can be made.
Each one will have it's Mega stone tied to a Pokeball variant and the one used can also be picked - The BST must be boosted up by 100 points
- It may change one typing, but it can't change both
- You can't add more than 100-(Base Stat Total/10 (rounded down)) to a single stat
- You can not lower more than 30 in total to add to other stats
- Mostly anything can be changed about moves
- The only exeption is that you can't make new effects (ie: Sky Terrain)
- Mostly the same as moves, but don't overpower the abilities.
- Same as abilities
Pokeballs can't be changed, as they are reserved to act as Mega stones.EDIT: feel free to use these as well
- Your post must have at least 5 likes to have acceptance.
- You may post a new idea every 3 days, regardless of whether or not the previous one was accepted or not.
- When submiting, you do not have to do all of the above
- Responding to posts and providing feedback to the idea is fine
- Battle system and type chart can't be changed
- You can bring up as many subjects as you wish, but try to keep the amount around 10
- There are no slates.
- If something is already changed, you can't change it anymore
EDIT: Actually added a goal for the mod.
Last edited:
First off, I feel like this is just a clone of several other pet mods, not really something that is interesting on its own. With no general goal other than 'changing' things, you end up with a meta that's clunky, and has no real direction as far as actual play of the thing goes. What stops this from happening?
Secondly, you don't need to save Pokeballs to be MegaStones, if someone decides to code your meta it'd probably be easier to make a custom item for a new mega than use an existing one anyways.
Third, by limiting submissions to 1 week per person, I could see that rule making this Pet Mod pretty dead pretty quickly, as everyone with interest tires out after the week it takes to get in a new submission because nothing in the form of 'voting' is happening as every post is just waiting to hit an arbitrary limit of likes. After your submission, very little engagement is really required. I'd personally change it to something like 3-4 days to avoid this while having the same effect you're looking for.
Honestly, I thought using an existing item was easier than making a new one. Guess I was wrong. Guess I was also wrong about a week being enough time. Yeah 3 days sounds better.
Also changed 6 likes to 5 and made it so a thing can't be changed at all of it's already changed.
Staying Power
Metagame premise: Most effects with a set duration (but longer than one turn) are now permanent, similar to Lockdown but continuing beyond just the turn 6 milestone.
Specifically -
These effects become permanent until superseded by another effect within the same group:
Weather (Sun/Rain/Hail/Sandstorm) (the presence of a Pokemon with Cloud Nine will still suppress all weather effects as long as it stays in)
Terrain (Grassy/Electric/Misty/Psychic)
These effects become permanent for the entire field, and persist through switches, but any Pokemon on either side can end the effect by using the same move again:
Trick Room
Wonder Room
Magic Room
Gravity
Mud Sport
Water Sport
These effects become permanent for the side using them, and persist through switches, but can be removed if a Pokemon on the same side uses the same move again, or if a Pokemon on the opposite side uses Defog:
Reflect
Light Screen
Aurora Veil (these first three can also be removed by Brick Break)
Mist
Safeguard
Tailwind
Lucky Chant
These effects are permanent on the affected Pokemon, but can be removed if that Pokemon switches out:
Disable
Encore (this is also removed by running out of PP on the affected move)
Taunt
Embargo
Heal Block
Telekinesis (this is also removed by Gravity)
Magnet Rise
Slow Start (yeah, don't use Regigigas)
These effects are notably not modified, and continue to work the same way they always have (among others):
Damage-dealing temporary traps (Whirlpool/Fire Spin/Wrap/etc.)
"Next-turn-only" effects (Lock-On/Laser Focus/Fairy Lock/Destiny Bond/etc.)
Self-driven locking moves (Dig/Outrage/Rollout/Bide/etc.)
Perish Song
Sleep/freeze/confusion timers
Other than that, standard OU rules apply.
Questions:
Should Brick Break be extended to remove all the one-sided field effects along with Defog, allowing Taunt-proof (but spinblockable) counterplay to those kinds of setup fortresses?
Is the prospect of permanent triple screens with immunity to criticals enough to force an overreliance on the screen-breaking moves to prevent someone from setting up absurd unbreakable walls, or should it invite players to outdo them at the stall game?
Are trapping moves/abilities more of a problem in this environment than in standard, possibly even banworthy, with the additional effects you can force on a trapped, docile opponent?
Metagame premise: Most effects with a set duration (but longer than one turn) are now permanent, similar to Lockdown but continuing beyond just the turn 6 milestone.
Specifically -
These effects become permanent until superseded by another effect within the same group:
Weather (Sun/Rain/Hail/Sandstorm) (the presence of a Pokemon with Cloud Nine will still suppress all weather effects as long as it stays in)
Terrain (Grassy/Electric/Misty/Psychic)
These effects become permanent for the entire field, and persist through switches, but any Pokemon on either side can end the effect by using the same move again:
Trick Room
Wonder Room
Magic Room
Gravity
Mud Sport
Water Sport
These effects become permanent for the side using them, and persist through switches, but can be removed if a Pokemon on the same side uses the same move again, or if a Pokemon on the opposite side uses Defog:
Reflect
Light Screen
Aurora Veil (these first three can also be removed by Brick Break)
Mist
Safeguard
Tailwind
Lucky Chant
These effects are permanent on the affected Pokemon, but can be removed if that Pokemon switches out:
Disable
Encore (this is also removed by running out of PP on the affected move)
Taunt
Embargo
Heal Block
Telekinesis (this is also removed by Gravity)
Magnet Rise
Slow Start (yeah, don't use Regigigas)
These effects are notably not modified, and continue to work the same way they always have (among others):
Damage-dealing temporary traps (Whirlpool/Fire Spin/Wrap/etc.)
"Next-turn-only" effects (Lock-On/Laser Focus/Fairy Lock/Destiny Bond/etc.)
Self-driven locking moves (Dig/Outrage/Rollout/Bide/etc.)
Perish Song
Sleep/freeze/confusion timers
Other than that, standard OU rules apply.
Questions:
Should Brick Break be extended to remove all the one-sided field effects along with Defog, allowing Taunt-proof (but spinblockable) counterplay to those kinds of setup fortresses?
Is the prospect of permanent triple screens with immunity to criticals enough to force an overreliance on the screen-breaking moves to prevent someone from setting up absurd unbreakable walls, or should it invite players to outdo them at the stall game?
Are trapping moves/abilities more of a problem in this environment than in standard, possibly even banworthy, with the additional effects you can force on a trapped, docile opponent?
It is obviously a problem. One can simply trap a wall, then Encore, Disable, or Taunt it. Then it will simply Struggle itself to death.
shed shell woo
The question that was asked is if trapping abilities are "more of a problem in this environment than in standard, possibly even banworthy". Forcing walls to run Shed Shell, I would call banworthy as it is very centralizing.
Last edited:
I mean, the meta is gunna revolve around the new changes you put into place because otherwise its probably not a particularly exciting or different metagame- so yes, it is gunna force a huge centralization around these changed moves. is that a bad thing? not necessarily. im not sure whether i like the whole idea or not, because i think the OM guys will immediately throw it into the pet mod category due to seemingly "arbitrary" changes, and im also not 100% that the wide range of moves you mentioned would ever be utilized. it would be more likely to just see weather and screenwars. almost never does a taunted, encored, magnet rise, disabled etc pokemon stay in for the full duration of the effect so that is an incredibly miniscule buff, and i dont believe magic room or wonder room will still see any play whatsoever
sin(pi)
lucky n bad
I don't think it would be a pet mod - it can be summed up as "temporary effects are now permanent". Changing Brick Break might be a step too far, though; from a lore perspective, breaking screens makes sense but breaking something like mist does not (and either way, you get to the stage where it is no longer objective ie into Pet Mod territory).
Thoughts on the meta:
I like it. Trick Room and Defog become mandatory on any offensive team, as you will need to counteract opposing TR/screens.
Alolan Ninetales obviously skyrockets in viability thanks to Aurora Veil; it probably wants to run manual Hail to beat opposing weather setters which will all be viable.
Gravity plus Excadrill is scary in sand, as you need Grass/Bug types to resist Earthquake; Z-hypnosis Xurkitree also benefits from the increased accuracy in particular while pressuring a bunch of Excadrill's checks.
I can see the metagame threats shaping up to be a lot like doubles, with Tailwind/Weather wars/Trick Room/Surge Surfer all competing to win the speed control wars, and various Terrains thrown in (Electric Terrain Rain teams, anyone?)
Here's a wacky idea for an OM; Mirror Image.
The basis: A Pokemon's stat is mirrored around the mean of its stats (excluding HP).
This means that if a Pokemon had a base 120 attack stat, and ignoring HP an average stat of 100, it would be left with a base 80 attack stat.
The equation to calculate a new stat would be ((BST-HP)/5)-Stat. Any negative stat is then made positive, and stats of value 0 are changed to 1.
I made a spreadsheet for all the stats here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qWxxVn7GzlRUkjCjU4yOoojFR4_OHLBkQSvbg9J5tos/edit?usp=sharing
What this does overall is change the roles of Pokemon heavily. Physical Pokemon become special, fast Pokemon become slow. However, this is not always the case, as it depends on the average. Pokemon with all equal stats are entirely unaffected.
Possible threats: Pokemon with low stats despite their high BST, maybe due to standout stats. Shuckle is a noteable one, with 184 offenses and 189 speed, as well as sturdy shell smash. Mega Steelix is also scary.
Possible unbans: Aegislash, as this completely messes it up. Shield has high offenses and low bulk, Blade has high bulk and low offenses.
This OM would most likely use the OU banlist.
So, what do you guys think?
The basis: A Pokemon's stat is mirrored around the mean of its stats (excluding HP).
This means that if a Pokemon had a base 120 attack stat, and ignoring HP an average stat of 100, it would be left with a base 80 attack stat.
The equation to calculate a new stat would be ((BST-HP)/5)-Stat. Any negative stat is then made positive, and stats of value 0 are changed to 1.
I made a spreadsheet for all the stats here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qWxxVn7GzlRUkjCjU4yOoojFR4_OHLBkQSvbg9J5tos/edit?usp=sharing
What this does overall is change the roles of Pokemon heavily. Physical Pokemon become special, fast Pokemon become slow. However, this is not always the case, as it depends on the average. Pokemon with all equal stats are entirely unaffected.
Possible threats: Pokemon with low stats despite their high BST, maybe due to standout stats. Shuckle is a noteable one, with 184 offenses and 189 speed, as well as sturdy shell smash. Mega Steelix is also scary.
Possible unbans: Aegislash, as this completely messes it up. Shield has high offenses and low bulk, Blade has high bulk and low offenses.
This OM would most likely use the OU banlist.
So, what do you guys think?
Last edited:
I love how Ninjask has 2 base speed
Shuckle should be banned btw, those offenses with sturdy shell smash is too dumb imo
anyway Kyurem-Black is monstrous with 125/60/130/110/140/135 stats. It has good special attack, is bulkier than Cresselia and faster than Ash-Greninja (in the normal game)
Hoopa-Unbound is the world's fastest physical wall, with 80/180/110 bulk and 160 speed.
Mega Gyarados has 148 base special attack and 137 base speed with a great special movepool (Dark Pulse and Hydro Pump for STABs, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam and Fire Blast for coverage), making it a great special sweeper.
Dusknoir has base 127 spatk and 147 speed, fairly good ghost attacker
Diancie has 120 in both attacking stats and 170 base speed :o
Guzzlord gained around 40 in each defense while losing no more HP, making it a much better wall. Lost its offenses, gained a base 96 Speed stat.
A few more interesting ones to note:
Ferrothorn's defenses drop to 35 and 50, but it becomes a decent special sweeper. Its movepool sadly is limited to Acid Spray, Energy Ball, Giga Drain, Flash Cannon, Hidden Power, Thunderbolt, Solar Beam and a few bad moves.
Arena Trap Pokemon are infinitely worse in this meta, with Dugtrio attempting to be bulky while only having 35 HP, Diglett doing the same but worse and Trapinch having 2 / 53 offenses.
Shedinja is no threat.
Mega Sceptile becomes a really solid offensive wall having 70 / 149 / 139 bulk stats, Synthesis and an above average 114 Attack stat. The Ice weakness is still a clear problem for it.
Scizor becomes a fast special sweeper, which gives it some interesting options. It can either run Flash Cannon or Hidden Power Steel as Steel STAB, Bug Buzz or Silver Wind as Bug STAB, and for coverage it gets things like Ominous Wind, Vacuum Wave, Air Slash and Venoshock. Overall a much worse movepool, but could be fun.
Seismitoad gains bulk and speed while losing some offensive presence, allowing it to do its job that little bit better.
Last of all, Lando-T gains bulk and speed but drops a tonne of Attack. Luckily its Sp. Attack doesn't drop too much, so it isn't entirely passive.
Zen Mode Darmanitan might finally be viable in this meta:
- Standard Darmanitan: 105/10/95/120/95/55
- Zen Mode: 105/144/69/64/69/119
I feel like it's a bit too similar to shiny shift.
yeah, they are pretty similar now I think about it. If I were to note a few differences, they would be the inversion calculations, and the fact that Shiny Shift still allows regular Pokemon. I honestly feel like not including the original Pokemon would make for a more diverse meta, as a lot of common OU threats would do exactly the same things here otherwise. Not to bash Shiny Shift, it sounds super cool!
Double or Nothing
Metagame premise. as the metagame suggests, this works as follows- every move, regardless of whether it targets the enemy or not, will be affected by double or nothing. If the move is of a super effective type vs the target, it'll be used twice (instead of dealing double damage). If the move is of a not very effective type (or against immunity), the move will fail. If the move is 4x super effective, it'll be used 4 times.
The interesting addition about this meta is that moves will be blocked that did not target the opponent- for instance, want to stop skarmory healing? switch in your electric type, which resists flying. When the opponent clicks roost, the electric typing will block it! also, clicking zap cannon against that skarmory will try and use zap cannon twice against it, which has the potential to offset bad accuracy thanks to super effectiveness, improving the move heavily. but be careful, if the skarmory predicts the electric switch and clicks spikes, it'll use spikes twice and put down 2 layers against you.
Ability based immunity + item-based neutrality (berries such as chople, occa etc.) doesnt affect double or nothing, only typing- so while heatran is "immune" to flamethrower, only its typing is taken into consideration when the move is used, so flamethrower will be used against it. it will still take no damage from the flamethrower thanks to its ability, as well as activate the flash fire boost. for a mon like bronzong for instance, even though its typing might be considered to grant an immunity against ground, using spikes against it will count as a super effective typing and result in 2 layers. A move like Freeze-Dry works as follows- against a pure water type, the ice type move will be blocked and rendered useless. Against a water/ground type, it will hit due to "neutral" typing, resulting in a 4x super effective hit (hitting 4 times).
Threats and Potential Bans
These things are improved in the meta
Secondary Effects: Since super effective attacks hit twice, they'll also grant two times at landing a secondary effect. So scald has 2 30% chances. Also guaranteed secondary effects are strong, with Acid Spray hitting twice and lowering special defense by 2 with each hit. Flame charge would be able to up speed by 2x.
Hazard Control: Both spinblocking and hazard prevention are very easy in this mode. This will create an interesting choice as to whether teams choose to include hazards or not, as any steel type is capable of blocking spin, defog, rocks and tspikes at the same time.
Boosting: Mons can get a huge chance to set up in one turn and sweep in this meta. For instance a thundurus might lure in a Tyranitar only to reveal bulk up, instantly boosting to +4/+4 and sweeping. However, no longer can mons blast their way through resists with boosted z-moves anymore. Strong coverage is a must.
Obscure Coverage: Many bad moves can find some new usage here- for instance the previously mentioned Zap Cannon is an option because when super-effective will have two attempts to hit. Other moves that might be usable would be hypnosis, ice ball/rollout/fury cutter, power-up punch, sky drop, dragon tail, charm, and a bunch more.
Defensive options are really interesting because hazards and statuses like poison are much more easily blocked and there is a wide range of switchins to common mons now-but also recovery can be easily prevented. offensively you can search for a double boost in order to quickly put yourself in a winning position- but you wont be able to blast your way through resists with z-moves any more, for instance. mons with excellent STAB coverage will go far in this meta for sure, and every team is likely gunna have to rely on a heavy mixture of defence and offence to succeed, with both offensive and defensive playstyles receiving potential big buffs and nerfs. Regenerator mons are gunna be a big hit thanks to having guaranteed healing, unlike anything else- and Regenerator might get a quickban for this reason.
Additional info
moves will be repeated twice in a row if the user is capable of doing so- for instance u-turn wont be able to be repeated thanks to the user switching out after the first turn. rest wont be able to be used twice because the user becomes incapacitated by sleep after the first turn. each repetition has its own attack rolls for things like accuracy, confusion hitting, paralysis, and secondary effects. if you have a life orb, it'll amplify each hit and also cost 10% each time.
for moves like solarbeam and sky drop, the second repetition of the attack will start as soon as the first attack hits/misses/finishes. so for sky drop, you might be able to pick up an opponent over the length of 8 turns. for solarbeam, you might accidentally lock yourself into an 8-turn long string of charge moves. unless the move is a multi-turn move, all the attacks happen during the same turn- that means if the attack gets a KO, the remaining attacks will miss. this is worth considering when it comes to things like high jump kick.
Questions for the community:
Is Regenerator broken? Its the only way to guarantee healing, every single other mon can be forcefullly whittled down defensively by blocking their roosts/slack offs etc. Even poison heal gliscor can be stopped from pressing protect against many types. Things like Slowbro, Tornadus and Tangrowth may cause enormous problems with their good coverage, bulk, and guaranteed heal, plus switching and hazard control is incredibly simple in this metagame.
Any good threats or moves that come to mind? I think thisll be a fun meta for the way it develops rather than due to creating crazy sets or stats. Its gunna be very reactionary and flexible and might be a lot of fun because of that. Seeing the relationship between stall and offence teams is gunna be super interesting for sure.
Metagame premise. as the metagame suggests, this works as follows- every move, regardless of whether it targets the enemy or not, will be affected by double or nothing. If the move is of a super effective type vs the target, it'll be used twice (instead of dealing double damage). If the move is of a not very effective type (or against immunity), the move will fail. If the move is 4x super effective, it'll be used 4 times.
The interesting addition about this meta is that moves will be blocked that did not target the opponent- for instance, want to stop skarmory healing? switch in your electric type, which resists flying. When the opponent clicks roost, the electric typing will block it! also, clicking zap cannon against that skarmory will try and use zap cannon twice against it, which has the potential to offset bad accuracy thanks to super effectiveness, improving the move heavily. but be careful, if the skarmory predicts the electric switch and clicks spikes, it'll use spikes twice and put down 2 layers against you.
Ability based immunity + item-based neutrality (berries such as chople, occa etc.) doesnt affect double or nothing, only typing- so while heatran is "immune" to flamethrower, only its typing is taken into consideration when the move is used, so flamethrower will be used against it. it will still take no damage from the flamethrower thanks to its ability, as well as activate the flash fire boost. for a mon like bronzong for instance, even though its typing might be considered to grant an immunity against ground, using spikes against it will count as a super effective typing and result in 2 layers. A move like Freeze-Dry works as follows- against a pure water type, the ice type move will be blocked and rendered useless. Against a water/ground type, it will hit due to "neutral" typing, resulting in a 4x super effective hit (hitting 4 times).
Threats and Potential Bans
These things are improved in the meta
Secondary Effects: Since super effective attacks hit twice, they'll also grant two times at landing a secondary effect. So scald has 2 30% chances. Also guaranteed secondary effects are strong, with Acid Spray hitting twice and lowering special defense by 2 with each hit. Flame charge would be able to up speed by 2x.
Hazard Control: Both spinblocking and hazard prevention are very easy in this mode. This will create an interesting choice as to whether teams choose to include hazards or not, as any steel type is capable of blocking spin, defog, rocks and tspikes at the same time.
Boosting: Mons can get a huge chance to set up in one turn and sweep in this meta. For instance a thundurus might lure in a Tyranitar only to reveal bulk up, instantly boosting to +4/+4 and sweeping. However, no longer can mons blast their way through resists with boosted z-moves anymore. Strong coverage is a must.
Obscure Coverage: Many bad moves can find some new usage here- for instance the previously mentioned Zap Cannon is an option because when super-effective will have two attempts to hit. Other moves that might be usable would be hypnosis, ice ball/rollout/fury cutter, power-up punch, sky drop, dragon tail, charm, and a bunch more.
Defensive options are really interesting because hazards and statuses like poison are much more easily blocked and there is a wide range of switchins to common mons now-but also recovery can be easily prevented. offensively you can search for a double boost in order to quickly put yourself in a winning position- but you wont be able to blast your way through resists with z-moves any more, for instance. mons with excellent STAB coverage will go far in this meta for sure, and every team is likely gunna have to rely on a heavy mixture of defence and offence to succeed, with both offensive and defensive playstyles receiving potential big buffs and nerfs. Regenerator mons are gunna be a big hit thanks to having guaranteed healing, unlike anything else- and Regenerator might get a quickban for this reason.
Additional info
moves will be repeated twice in a row if the user is capable of doing so- for instance u-turn wont be able to be repeated thanks to the user switching out after the first turn. rest wont be able to be used twice because the user becomes incapacitated by sleep after the first turn. each repetition has its own attack rolls for things like accuracy, confusion hitting, paralysis, and secondary effects. if you have a life orb, it'll amplify each hit and also cost 10% each time.
for moves like solarbeam and sky drop, the second repetition of the attack will start as soon as the first attack hits/misses/finishes. so for sky drop, you might be able to pick up an opponent over the length of 8 turns. for solarbeam, you might accidentally lock yourself into an 8-turn long string of charge moves. unless the move is a multi-turn move, all the attacks happen during the same turn- that means if the attack gets a KO, the remaining attacks will miss. this is worth considering when it comes to things like high jump kick.
Questions for the community:
Is Regenerator broken? Its the only way to guarantee healing, every single other mon can be forcefullly whittled down defensively by blocking their roosts/slack offs etc. Even poison heal gliscor can be stopped from pressing protect against many types. Things like Slowbro, Tornadus and Tangrowth may cause enormous problems with their good coverage, bulk, and guaranteed heal, plus switching and hazard control is incredibly simple in this metagame.
Any good threats or moves that come to mind? I think thisll be a fun meta for the way it develops rather than due to creating crazy sets or stats. Its gunna be very reactionary and flexible and might be a lot of fun because of that. Seeing the relationship between stall and offence teams is gunna be super interesting for sure.
For Tinted Lens, the move is still resisted so it should still not activate
I think the pin missile would hit 10 times.
abilities dont get taken into consideration when blocking or doubling moves, so tinted lens resisted hits always fail, icicle crash hits snorlax but at halved damage, filter and solid rock would still lower the damage of the super effective hits, but they'd still hit 2 or 4 times.
i think the best way to think about doubled super-effective hits is that they are still super effective, but hit twice or four times at halved damage. (the super effectiveness boosts the halved damage up to full.)
Moving Out
Premise: A pet mod that only changes how moves work and what Pokemon can learn them.
Examples:
Hurricane: gets 100% accuracy in all weather.
+Aurorus +Lunatone +Archeops +Masquerain +Minior +Flygon +Ludicolo
Meditate: boosts special attack, speed and accuracy by 1.
+Golduck +Xatu +Articuno +Claydol +Grumpig +Lapras
Smelling Salts:
75bp powers double if foe is paralyzed and cures it.
+Ambipom +Druddigon +Arbok +Regirock +Raichu
Snore: Can be used awake or asleep, power doubles when asleep, wakes up after use unless user has Comatose.
+Komala
Horn Attack:
Always crits.
+Ariados +Beedrill +Drapion +Toxicroak +Gogoat
High Horsepower: 120BP has 33% recoil. 10% chance to paralyze.
+Rapidash +Zebstrika +Emboar +Tauros +Gogoat +Rhydon +Rhyperior +Bouffalant
Blaze Kick: Combines fighting in it's type effectiveness. 100bp 95% Accuracy
+Hitmontop +Simisear +Rapidash +Golurk +Primeape
Muddy Water: Combines ground in it's type effectiveness. 100bp 95% Accuracy. No longer has a 30% chance to lower accuracy but has 20% chance to lower speed.
+Palossand +Claydol +Lunatone +Cradily +Nidoking +Nidoqueen
Leaf Tornado: Combines flying in it's type effectiveness. 100bp 95% Accuracy. No longer has a 50% chance to lower accuracy but has 20% chance to lower speed.
+Lilligant +Jumpluff +Exeggutor +Exeggutor-Alola +Shiftry +Shaymin
Premise: A pet mod that only changes how moves work and what Pokemon can learn them.
Examples:
Hurricane: gets 100% accuracy in all weather.
+Aurorus +Lunatone +Archeops +Masquerain +Minior +Flygon +Ludicolo
Meditate: boosts special attack, speed and accuracy by 1.
+Golduck +Xatu +Articuno +Claydol +Grumpig +Lapras
Smelling Salts:
+Ambipom +Druddigon +Arbok +Regirock +Raichu
Snore: Can be used awake or asleep, power doubles when asleep, wakes up after use unless user has Comatose.
+Komala
Horn Attack:
+Ariados +Beedrill +Drapion +Toxicroak +Gogoat
High Horsepower: 120BP has 33% recoil. 10% chance to paralyze.
+Rapidash +Zebstrika +Emboar +Tauros +Gogoat +Rhydon +Rhyperior +Bouffalant
Blaze Kick: Combines fighting in it's type effectiveness. 100bp 95% Accuracy
+Hitmontop +Simisear +Rapidash +Golurk +Primeape
Muddy Water: Combines ground in it's type effectiveness. 100bp 95% Accuracy. No longer has a 30% chance to lower accuracy but has 20% chance to lower speed.
+Palossand +Claydol +Lunatone +Cradily +Nidoking +Nidoqueen
Leaf Tornado: Combines flying in it's type effectiveness. 100bp 95% Accuracy. No longer has a 50% chance to lower accuracy but has 20% chance to lower speed.
+Lilligant +Jumpluff +Exeggutor +Exeggutor-Alola +Shiftry +Shaymin
Last edited:
Type effectiveness of Blaze Kick, Muddy Water and Leaf Tornado afaik:Moving Out
Premise: A pet mod that only changes how moves work and what Pokemon can learn them.
Examples:
Hurricane: gets 100% accuracy in all weather.
+Aurorus +Lunatone +Archeops +Masquerain +Minior +Flygon +Ludicolo
Meditate: boosts special attack, speed and accuracy by 1.
+Golduck +Xatu +Articuno +Claydol +Grumpig +Lapras
Smelling Salts:75bp powers double if foe is paralyzed and cures it.
+Ambipom +Druddigon +Arbok +Regirock +Raichu
Snore: Can be used awake or asleep, power doubles when asleep, wakes up after use unless user has Comatose.
+Komala
Horn Attack:Always crits.
+Ariados +Beedrill +Drapion +Toxicroak +Gogoat
High Horsepower: 120BP has 33% recoil. 10% chance to paralyze.
+Rapidash +Zebstrika +Emboar +Tauros +Gogoat +Rhydon +Rhyperior +Bouffalant
Blaze Kick: Combines fighting in it's type effectiveness. 100bp 95% Accuracy
+Hitmontop +Simisear +Rapidash +Golurk +Primeape
Muddy Water: Combines ground in it's type effectiveness. 100bp 95% Accuracy. No longer has a 30% chance to lower accuracy but has 20% chance to lower speed.
+Palossand +Claydol +Lunatone +Cradily +Nidoking +Nidoqueen
Leaf Tornado: Combines flying in it's type effectiveness. 100bp 95% Accuracy. No longer has a 50% chance to lower accuracy but has 20% chance to lower speed.
+Lilligant +Jumpluff +Exeggutor +Exeggutor-Alola +Shiftry +Shaymin
Blaze Kick:
4x SE - Steel, Ice,
2x SE - Grass, Normal, Dark
1x Neutral - Rock, Bug, Ground, Fighting, Electric
0.5x Resist - Flying, Fairy, Poison, Psychic, Water, Fire, Dragon
0.25x Resist - None
Immune - Ghost
Muddy Water:
4x SE - Rock, Fire
2x SE - Ground, Steel, Poison, Electric
1x Neutral - Fighting, Ice, Dark, Ghost, Fairy, Normal, Psychic
0.5x Resist - Water, Dragon, Bug
0.25x Resist - Grass
Immune - Flying
Leaf Tornado:
4x SE - None
2x SE - Fighting, Water, Ground
1x Neutral - Grass, Bug, Rock, Fairy, Dark, Ghost, Normal, Psychic, Ice
0.5x Resist - Fire, Dragon, Poison, Flying, Electric
0.25x Resist - Steel
Immune - None
A pokemon with Ice/Steel type will take 16x damage from Blaze Kick, same for Rock/Fire types vs Muddy Water. RIP Magcargo and Snowslash.
You could choose to turn all 4x effective type matchups into 2x SE if you want, but it's not necessary.
Leaf Tornado's typing seems rather underwhelming, honestly. So many common types can wall it, and Ground and Fighting can both be hit SE so easily through other types.
In fact, all these moves seem to have a fairly large amount of resists. Not really sure how viable they'd be.
This was a meta back in Gen 6, but I feel it's still got lets and I made a few changes.
Metagame: Signature Items
Premise: Signature items are no longer locked to their original users.
See full list here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...gSylfJxwDxRz366OHCtiD0/edit?ts=597f154b#gid=0
Banlist: OU Banlist, OU Clauses, Signature Item clause (no more than one of the above items may be used on your team). Eeveeium Z.
Possible Bans: Toxapex - with Eviolite it's nigh unbreakable
Q&A
Why don't the plates also change typing?
Because they provide boosts to other Pokemon besides Arceus. The Memory items do nothing for anything except Silvally.
Why hasn't Kyurem-B been banned?
It doesn't gain any new moves, and the Memory items can only change its primary typing. Therefore, it doesn't get the physical Ice STAB it always wanted.
What about mega stones?
They still only work for their inteded users - we already have Mix and Mega for that.
Buffed Pokemon
Electric types - they now get much stronger Z moves with Catastropika and 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt, or a 175 BP STAB Thunder Wave in Stoked Sparksurfer.
Tangrowth - Deep Sea Scale patches up its low Special Defence and lets it use status moves to boot.
Nerfed Pokemon
Chansey - why would you bother when Blissey can get the exact same boosts?
Metagame: Signature Items
Premise: Signature items are no longer locked to their original users.
See full list here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...gSylfJxwDxRz366OHCtiD0/edit?ts=597f154b#gid=0
Banlist: OU Banlist, OU Clauses, Signature Item clause (no more than one of the above items may be used on your team). Eeveeium Z.
Possible Bans: Toxapex - with Eviolite it's nigh unbreakable
Q&A
Why don't the plates also change typing?
Because they provide boosts to other Pokemon besides Arceus. The Memory items do nothing for anything except Silvally.
Why hasn't Kyurem-B been banned?
It doesn't gain any new moves, and the Memory items can only change its primary typing. Therefore, it doesn't get the physical Ice STAB it always wanted.
What about mega stones?
They still only work for their inteded users - we already have Mix and Mega for that.
Buffed Pokemon
Electric types - they now get much stronger Z moves with Catastropika and 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt, or a 175 BP STAB Thunder Wave in Stoked Sparksurfer.
Tangrowth - Deep Sea Scale patches up its low Special Defence and lets it use status moves to boot.
Nerfed Pokemon
Chansey - why would you bother when Blissey can get the exact same boosts?
Last edited:
But Memories changing type is part of Silvally's ability, not the memory, so why does it change type?
"they now get much stronger Z moves with Catastropika"--how is this the case, when nothing else outside of Raichu and Smeargle can have Volt Tackle in the first place? Do signature Zs automatically grant anything access to their underlying move then? Eevium Z Krookodile...yuck. Maybe even Swoobat, to get to +4 everything on the first turn. Or you could run Decidium Z/Marshadium Z with no intention of using the Z move at all, just to gain access to Spirit Shackle or Spectral Thief.
- Status