Metagame Workshop (check post #1293)

55 Move Cup

Every move which have bp under or equal to 55 gets their bp doubled. For exemple, Tackle now have 80 bp instead of 40.

Threats
Moves that are under 55 and are still used competitively : Priorities, PuP, Multi-hit moves, Multi-hit priorities...

Banlist
Bans : Skill Link, OU banlist
Unbans : None for the moment

Questions
Would it be actually fun?
How would work Technician and pursuit?
Other thoughts?
Have something similar already been proposed?
This sounds awfully similar to Move equality. Priority would be completely broken. Multi hit moves would either have to be excempt or unaffected - Rock Blast would have at worst 100 BP.
 
Linkmons sound like my idea of Unity what is the difference? Because one opinion was it was stupidly over powered is it the fact that I said that the first move is shared?

Photon Sky

Metagame Premise: All attacks change category depending on your higher attack stat, in the same way as Photon Geyser or Light that Burns the Sky.

Q&A

Q: Does that include boosts?
A: Yes, so if you boost your weaker stat then it could change the category of your moves.

Q: Does that include abilities?
A: No, the category is applied without considering abilities.

Q: What happens if both stats are the same?
A: The category does not change.

Q: What if the user is burned?
A: The category is determined before the burn drop takes effect.

Examples

Example: Kyurem-Black's Ice Beam is now a Physical move, but turns back to Special after an Intimidate.

Example: Charizard's Flare Blitz is a Special move, but after Mega Evolving into Charizard-Mega-X, it's now a Physical move again.
This sounds like Full Potentional or is it just me?

(OM Idea)

Linkability
Metagame Premise: All of the team’s abilities are active at once.

Basically, this is a rather chaotic OU-based metagame where each Pokemon has its own abilities plus all of its teammates’. For example, Heatran can have Levitate, Sheer Force, and Intimidate if it’s teammates are Latios, Nidoking, and Landorus-Therian, respectively. With an initial banlist to balance certain abilities that are broken, this could open the door for many different archetypes. Hyper Offense has access to Sheer Force, Adaptability*, and Beast Boost, while stall is usable as well with Regenerator and Unaware. Playstyles like rain get to enjoy Drizzle + Swift Swim + Water Bubble shenanigans, but they have to be careful around Water Absorb teams!​

Potential Bans and Threats:
  • Huge Power: no explanation needed
  • Pure Power: no explanation needed
  • Speed Boost: no explanation needed
  • Mold Breaker: Basically, this ruins the point of the entire OM and banning it keeps playstyles like rain in check. Invalidating immunities, unaware, etc is really stupid. Teravolt is banned as well.
  • Magic Bounce: Being completely immune to status moves like hazards, toxic, etc would break the metagame and completely invalidate certain Pokemon.
  • Contrary: May not be blatantly broken due to all of the Unaware users running around, but this will definitely be on the chopping block for obvious reasons.
  • Fur Coat: Another great ability that we’ll have to see about keeping, since it comes with the cost of having to use Furfrou/Persian-A.
  • Fluffy: Similar to above, except Bewear is actually decent.
  • Illusion: Never knowing what the Pokemon in front of you actually is hurts the metagame and gives Illusion teams countless opportunities for free turns.
  • Comatose: Phazing with Comatose is still as ridiculous here as it is in AAA.
  • Protean: Protean on the whole team seems way too good in combination with Adaptability, so this is definitely an ability to watch out for.
  • Drizzle: Probably the least apparent of these, Drizzle may be looked at down the road rather than instantly as rain teams will undoubtedly be a dominant playstyle. Banning Drizzle would make rain manageable, yet still usable as Pelipper can still support the team with rain. I want to know what you guys think of this one.

Keep in mind that you can STILL use all of these abilities on the Pokemon who learn it, but the ability won’t be shared among the rest of the team. This means that you can have a Mega Diancie on your team and it will receive the abilities of your teammates, but it won’t share Magic Bounce. The banlist/threatlist is preliminary and subject to definite change.
- While it cannot pass Wonder Guard to the rest of its teammates, Shedinja can have access to Sturdy, Overcoat, Bulletproof, as well as immunities to Fire, making it a huge threat to teams that can’t wear it down with passive damage (Magic Guard and Magic Bounce will presumedly be banned.)

- Tapu Lele may prove to be a very problematic Pokemon. Blessing the entire team with an immunity to priority attacks and a boost to Psychic moves, while being able to receive boosts from Sheer Force, Adaptability, etc means it can 2HKO the entire metagame with just it’s STAB coverage.

Other Pokemon could presumedly be added to the banlist as we identify what should and shouldn’t go.
11/25/17 - Removed Wonder Guard from ability banlist since Shedinja is banned
11/25/17 - Added Protean, Drizzle to threatlist
11/26/17 - Removed Magic Guard from initial threatlist. Added Tapu Lele.


Q&A:

Q: What happens when a Pokemon faints? Does the ability remain active?
A: Yes. Even after a Pokemon faints, it’s ability will continue to support the rest of the team. This is to avoid battles turning into instant snowballs once a Pokemon has been fainted.

Q: How do Megas work?
A: The ability before Mega Evolving is shared with the rest of the team until you actually Mega Evolve. Mega Charizard Y won’t support the team with Drought until it Mega Evolves.

Q: Do abilities stack? Will two Intimidate Pokemon make the opponent’s attack lower twice?
A: No.

Q: How do Skill Swap, Entrainment, etc work?
A: Ability-altering moves like these will only affect the Pokemon’s native abilities.

Q: What about conflicting abilities like Drought and Drizzle?
A: The order in which abilities trigger is determined by the team order. So if Torkoal is your first Pokemon and Pelipper is your last, then Rain will trigger after Sun. Not like anyone should use double weather, but just clearing it up.

Questions for the community: The name is subject to change. Do you guys have any ideas on a name that could better reflect the premise of the metagame? And overall, what do you think? It definitely seems a little crazy, but I could see this meta being fun with the appropriate tiering.


Fluffy and fur coat could be used for helping stall out as other wise HO is insane and the only viable strategy, also Persian A can be amazing with its parting shots making it even harder kill stall which it would seem hyper offensive would rule other wise which is important. Still trying to figure out how you would do balance.
 
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This sounds awfully similar to Move equality. Priority would be completely broken. Multi hit moves would either have to be excempt or unaffected - Rock Blast would have at worst 100 BP.
Oh... yeah, I forgot that one. And about priorities, I thought "everything is gonna be like ExtremeSpeed so it's gonna be okay". Now I remember that only few mons have access to ES, and I understand why...
 
Agreed, also here is a stall idea
fur coat + fluffy + unaware + poison heal/Filter + Magic Bounce/Guard(depends)/Solid Rock+ corrosion + Cloudnine/Prism Armor

Persian-A(fur coat)
Clefable(Unaware)
Mega Aggron(Filter(before mega Sturdy))
Sableye(Prankster)/Klefki(Prankster)
Toxapex(Regenator),
Type: Null(Battle Armor)(get rid of those pesky crits, also is a nice slow pivot)


I could just be crazy and this is a terrible team but eh.
 
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Fur Coat and Fluffy at the same time is overkill, and forces you to run Bewear and Persian, giving your team a noticeable fighting weakness off the jump, as well as making your entire team weak to fire if you run Fluffy. I think Fur Coat is enough, especially since you can run Prankster over Fluffy to give Persian-A a priority parting shot against any Special Attackers that would otherwise threaten it. Magic Guard/Bounce aren't super necessary if you just run Poison Heal + Regenerator (Regen deals with hazards, Poison heal deals with status).

If I was going to pitch a stall team, it'd be Toxapex, Gliscor, Klefki, Clefable, Dragonite and Persian-A or something along those lines.



Fluffy and fur coat could be used for helping stall out as other wise HO is insane and the only viable strategy, also Persian A can be amazing with its parting shots making it even harder kill stall which it would seem hyper offensive would rule other wise which is important. Still trying to figure out how you would do balance.
Fluffy/Fur Coat aren't going to help Stall as long as Water Bubble is around, so that needs to go. Initial banlist should honestly just be Huge/Pure Power/Water Bubble along with Mold Breaker, Illusion, MBounce, Wonderguard and probably Protean. There are a lot of threatening things in this meta but most are manageable and take a full team of mons to make something OP, those abilities are all capable of breaking an entire team with the addition of just one mon, should be obvious why they need to get banned. Water Bubble may be easily countered by Water Absorb but that's incredibly centralizing.
 
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Photon Sky

Metagame Premise: All attacks change category depending on your higher attack stat, in the same way as Photon Geyser or Light that Burns the Sky.

Q&A

Q: Does that include boosts?
A: Yes, so if you boost your weaker stat then it could change the category of your moves.

Q: Does that include abilities?
A: No, the category is applied without considering abilities.

Q: What happens if both stats are the same?
A: The category does not change.

Q: What if the user is burned?
A: The category is determined before the burn drop takes effect.

Examples

Example: Kyurem-Black's Ice Beam is now a Physical move, but turns back to Special after an Intimidate.

Example: Charizard's Flare Blitz is a Special move, but after Mega Evolving into Charizard-Mega-X, it's now a Physical move again.
Isn't this similar to a meta I think I looked up before in last gen called "offensification" or am I wrong for assuming that

Edit: OK nvm I just looked it up and its more like FP lite. This meta sounds good its note amazing how such a simple concept hasn't been proposed (or maybe it just wasn't properly done)
 
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WEATHERMONS
Metagame Premise: a Pet Mod which hopes to bring new light to pokemon that have potential to work well in teams, but falter and are deemed not good enough to use their weather sets to their full potential

Rules: Pokemon May have their Type, Ability, Stats, or Movepool changed to benefit from Weather. The changed stats may not be changed by more than 60 BST. There will be slates and voting, for which Pokemon become changed.
Example Pokemon:

Name:
Seaking
Types:
/

Abilities:

Swift Swim / Drizzle / Lightningrod
Stats:
80/92/65/105/70/68 BST: 480 (+40 SpA, -10 SpD [+30 BST])
Movepool Changes:
+Thunder, +Thunderbolt, +Wild Charge, +Electric Terrain, +Aqua Jet
Explanation:
Seaking is a PU Pokemon with little access to powerful STAB moves with its poor moveset, giving only Aqua Tail and Waterfall as its main source of STAB Power. Giving it more of a Special stat spread gives it reliable access to Hydro Pump and Scald, with the addition of a Never-Missing Thunder, if it were to run Drizzle. Water Veil seemed like the more worthless of the abilities, with Lightningrod being a reliable method for increasing its newly given Special Attack, and Swift Swim being a faster option for other sets inducing rain.
I know I have posted this before, but here is a better explanation/revamp of the old one. Will upload Q&A Tomorrow.​
 
(Pet mod)
Flavorful Changes

(looking for a better name)

Welcome to this pet mod. Here Pokémon get changes (with no real intent to buff or Nerf them) which attempt to stay as true to the original Mon they can. So

The typing may not be changed unless very high flavorful reasoning is provided. (The amount if flavor required is less if single-typed.)
The amount of Abilities can't be changed at all, but an ability can be changed provided you give flavorful reasoning.
The stats should have a very similar stat line to the original Mon, and the max BST is 570. (So Venusaur should be a specially oriented special attacker, Charizard should be a speedy special attacker, and Blastoise should be a mixed wall)
And finally the movepool, give flavorful reasoning and you may add some moves. You may add up to 5 new moves.

In order for a mon to be good, there are 4 things it needs in order to become good (well, it only needs three of them) which are typing, stats, abilities, and movepool. These are the 4 main points of the changes one Mon can have. These rules are like this in order to stay as true to the original Mon as possible, with some room to have creativity. Megas will be completely gone from this meta.

Now as it is, this is a rough idea, so any and all Suggestions will be appreciated, such as

Is this pet mod too similar to the other three mons?
 
Some great discussion going on, so let me address some responses:

I love this, but I wouldn't be too quick with bans. A lot of things seem extremely gamebreaking on paper that may actually end up being fine in practice just because of how versatile teambuilding is and the options every mon has. Even Wonder Guard becomes moot if mold breaker is allowed, though allowing mold breaker skews the meta towards offense to a ridiculous degree, so while I would advocate quickbanning those 2, I think they provide a decent example of how certain abilities will check/balance one another. Even Comaphazing, which has one donor and is extremely telegraphed, gets dunked on by Magic Guard/Suction Cups/Regenerator or even Intimidate/Priority to an extent.

Suspect tests will probably be performed regularly during the early days of the meta but I would advocate for leaving it fairly open at launch if you get it up and running.

Also for real how can you acknowledge that Magic Guard might be too much w/ stall and yet regenerator didn't even make your list?

could we just ban stall instead?
but considering that with teams like this

Lycanroc-dusk (Tough Claws)/Scizor (Technician)/Conkeldurr (Iron Fist)/Crawdaunt (Adaptability)/Dhelmise (Steelworker)/Yanmega (Tinted Lens)
Scizor gets a 287 BP (after STAB) Bullet Punch that's only resisted by mons with a 4x resist to steel, and nearly OHKO's even Toxapex if Scizor is holding a life orb, I don't think stall is priority #1

Actually, here's something even worse if the opponent doesn't have water absorb

Blastoise-mega (Mega Launcher)/Greninja-ash (Battle Bond, not important)/Araquanid (Water Bubble)/Crawdaunt (Adaptability)/Scizor (Technician)/Either Bruxish (Dazzling) or Yanmega (Tinted Lens) or Pelipper (Drizzle)

Once 'stoise has mega evolved, Greninja's water pulse has a disgusting 540 BP after STAB, 810 in the rain, in which case it can nearly OHKO even Assault Vest Max HP Max SpDef Blissey. Trying to get through with Priority? Greninja still packs a 360 BP (After STAB) Water Shuriken. You do have a water absorb user? Greninja's Dark Pulse is still 240 BP After STAB, it'll get by.

Disgusting

Or you can do a *somewhat* bulky offense team with M-Lop, Conkeldurr, Lycanroc-Dusk, Comfey, Buzzwole, GonZ and idk some Defiant mon. Lycan-dusk doesn't benefit from the rest of the team so much, but provides Tough Claws. M-Lop provides Conkeldurr, Buzzwole and Gonz with Scrappy, which they all appreciate. Comfey means that scrappy Drain Punch from Lop, Conkeldurr and Buzzwole gets priority, along with Buzz's Leech Life. While Drain Punch has 240 BP after STAB. Defiant means intimidate mons can't stop you while Beast Boost means that after one kill, your team has the means to get rolling. While none of the members are as individually threatening as Scizor or Greninja in the former teams, it's a much more well rounded strategy.

Comaphazing needs prankster + dazzling + scrappy to be as effective as it wants to be in this meta, I just don't see it being all that threatening tbh, but we'll see


Oh, and if we're talking weather, Rain might actually be outclassed in this meta. For one, it's biggest offensive buff, being Water Bubble, is totally invalidated by Water Absorb/Dry Skin, and Pelipper is undoubtedly a worse donor than Charizard-y or TTar. While Chlorophyll/Leaf Guard/Flower Gift/Solar Power makes Charizard alone capable of devastating most mons, since Flower Gift/Solar Power's boosts aren't type specific and boost both of it's offensive stats, and it's most common moveset would require 3 different immunities to stop the same way water absorb would stop something like Kingdra or Greninja from going wild on a team. Along with Flower Gift boosting SpDef for the entire team and a buffed Synthesis to offset Solar Power's unfortunate chip damage.

Sand's buffs aren't as huge but it needs less to accomplish what it should, basically requiring only Excadrill, Tyranitar and Mega Garchomp (I know, but Sand Force + Sand Rush mean it's actually usable here), which are all relatively solid mons on their own merits. This means the team has more room to run abilities which are just solid overall abilities, like adaptability or Sheer Force, or Steelworker even. With all of the above, Excadrill gets to spam a 400~ BP Iron Head after STAB, which unlike Water or Fire moves, has no immunities.
Lots of great points, but I disagree with the initial banlist thing. This meta is already going to be very “broken beats broken” in a way, so I’d like to minimize that by banning as many broken elements as possible early on. With that being said, not all of the abilities here will be on the initial banlist, as I’d like to see how they affect the metagame first. Banning Mold Breaker keeps the entire metagame in check, as it would be so overly centralizing that it could never be unbanned. Immunity stacking as a playstyle and others would be completely invalidated by it. Regenerator will be left alone for now, because it’s unclear just how good stall would be in such a power crept meta, while Magic Guard is usable on nearly all builds as well.

I wanted to share a fun core I’ve been liking a lot:


Marowak adds an Electric immunity that becomes extremely useful against Surge Surfer teams, and gets rid of Mantine’s massive weakness to it. Mantine itself also brings a useful Water immunity to the entire team, which is invaluable as rain teams are bound to be common, and negates one of Marowak’s weaknesses as well. Lastly, Clefable’s Magic Guard support means that Marowak and Mantine cannot be hurt by hazards and passive damage. It also allows Marowak to fire off recoil-free Flare Blitz without having to use Rock Head.


The next thing I wanted to talk about is probably a Pokemon I overlooked, and one that may be broken or suspect worthy. I’ll need you guys to offer input on this.

Charizard offers invaluable support to teams thanks to Drought. Not only this, but Chlorophyll partners means that it’s speed is constantly doubled and, with Adaptability and Magic Guard to support it, Mega Charizard Y just ravages through teams lacking a Fire immunity. I don’t want this metagame turning into one where Heatran is necessary on every team because of this thing, so we’ll have to see if we want to keep this or not.


Lastly, I have another question for the community. Currently, banned abilities aren’t really “banned” they’re just unable to be shared. Do you think it should work this way? The mindset behind it was not limiting the amount of Pokemon you could viably use in this meta.
 
Some great discussion going on, so let me address some responses:


Lots of great points, but I disagree with the initial banlist thing. This meta is already going to be very “broken beats broken” in a way, so I’d like to minimize that by banning as many broken elements as possible early on. With that being said, not all of the abilities here will be on the initial banlist, as I’d like to see how they affect the metagame first. Banning Mold Breaker keeps the entire metagame in check, as it would be so overly centralizing that it could never be unbanned. Immunity stacking as a playstyle and others would be completely invalidated by it. Regenerator will be left alone for now, because it’s unclear just how good stall would be in such a power crept meta, while Magic Guard is usable on nearly all builds as well.

I wanted to share a fun core I’ve been liking a lot:


Marowak adds an Electric immunity that becomes extremely useful against Surge Surfer teams, and gets rid of Mantine’s massive weakness to it. Mantine itself also brings a useful Water immunity to the entire team, which is invaluable as rain teams are bound to be common, and negates one of Marowak’s weaknesses as well. Lastly, Clefable’s Magic Guard support means that Marowak and Mantine cannot be hurt by hazards and passive damage. It also allows Marowak to fire off recoil-free Flare Blitz without having to use Rock Head.


The next thing I wanted to talk about is probably a Pokemon I overlooked, and one that may be broken or suspect worthy. I’ll need you guys to offer input on this.

Charizard offers invaluable support to teams thanks to Drought. Not only this, but Chlorophyll partners means that it’s speed is constantly doubled and, with Adaptability and Magic Guard to support it, Mega Charizard Y just ravages through teams lacking a Fire immunity. I don’t want this metagame turning into one where Heatran is necessary on every team because of this thing, so we’ll have to see if we want to keep this or not.


Lastly, I have another question for the community. Currently, banned abilities aren’t really “banned” they’re just unable to be shared. Do you think it should work this way? The mindset behind it was not limiting the amount of Pokemon you could viably use in this meta.
Yeah I wasn't meaning to imply that Mold Breaker shouldn't be banned, since I agree with you on that, was just using it as an example of how certain abilities check other abilities, and so I think a semi-minimal banlist would be better to start off to see how all the abilities play off of eachother. Glad to hear that not all the abilities you listed are going to be on the initial banlist as that was my main concern, I think we're on the same page here.

I think Regenerator should be looked out for but not threat #1. It has absurdly good synergy with Pressure, Multiscale, Fur Coat, Magic Guard and others and could make combating stall nearly impossible for any team that doesn't carry massive wallbreaking power. (Though that's pretty achievable here so, again, not sure how powerful it'd be in practice)

Charizard-Y sounds strong, and is a fantastic weather setter, but honestly doesn't even come close to the firepower (lol) of something like Greninja. On top of that, it lacks priority and has a 4x weakness to Accelerock. Not a big deal except for the fact that I can see Lycanroc-dusk getting used a lot in this meta as one of the only non-mega tough claws donors. It's very threatening with Solar Power, but that requires the use of some extremely niche mons, and most Adaptability mons don't really benefit from Drought outside of the Chlorophyll boost. Meanwhile, every Chlorophyll donor is having their own weaknesses exacerbated by the sun. I still think Sun could end up being a better weather option than rain, but that doesn't mean Zard-Y is busted. Honestly I feel sand could be the most threatening atm.

Agree that banned abilities should still be allowed on mons that already get them and just not spread, at least at first, there aren't too many issues that spring to mind immediately other than Shedinja who would obviously need to be banned.

Also, like the core, but it seems a little underwhelming given how powerful a lot of this meta's threats could be.

Here's a fun idea that would devastate offense but be pretty lackluster against stall



Won't do great against teams with unaware, but Beast Boost + Moxie + Simple gives Stakataka +4 Attack after it's first KO, which it should have no problem getting in a meta where Surge Surfer, Swift Swim, Chlorophyll and Sand Rush are sure to be everywhere. Pair it with Dhelmise for even more raw power, and maybe a water absorb/levitate/sturdy user to ensure it has an easier time setting up Trick Room. If it sets up successfully, it can OHKO pretty much every offensive mon in the game with ease, even Fur Coat Kartana dies to +4 Steelworker Gyro.

Contrary + Simple is also really good against non unaware teams, the most obvious abuser I can think of being Victini. Able to net +2 Speed, Defense and SpDef with V-Create, and +4 SpAtk with Overheat is nothing to scoff at. Pair that with Stored Power and you've got a pretty solid offensive threat on your hands. Stored Power also has the benefit of giving Victini a buff that isn't negated by Unaware.
 
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Yeah I wasn't meaning to imply that Mold Breaker shouldn't be banned, since I agree with you on that, was just using it as an example of how certain abilities check other abilities, and so I think a semi-minimal banlist would be better to start off to see how all the abilities play off of eachother. Glad to hear that not all the abilities you listed are going to be on the initial banlist as that was my main concern, I think we're on the same page here.

I think Regenerator should be looked out for but not threat #1. It has absurdly good synergy with Pressure, Multiscale, Fur Coat, Magic Guard and others and could make combating stall nearly impossible for any team that doesn't carry massive wallbreaking power. (Though that's pretty achievable here so, again, not sure how powerful it'd be in practice)

Charizard-Y sounds strong, and is a fantastic weather setter, but honestly doesn't even come close to the firepower (lol) of something like Greninja. On top of that, it lacks priority and has a 4x weakness to Accelerock. Not a big deal except for the fact that I can see Lycanroc-dusk getting used a lot in this meta as one of the only non-mega tough claws donors. It's very threatening with Solar Power, but that requires the use of some extremely niche mons, and most Adaptability mons don't really benefit from Drought outside of the Chlorophyll boost. Meanwhile, every Chlorophyll donor is having their own weaknesses exacerbated by the sun. I still think Sun could end up being a better weather option than rain, but that doesn't mean Zard-Y is busted. Honestly I feel sand could be the most threatening atm.

Agree that banned abilities should still be allowed on mons that already get them and just not spread, at least at first, there aren't too many issues that spring to mind immediately other than Shedinja who would obviously need to be banned.

Also, like the core, but it seems a little underwhelming given how powerful a lot of this meta's threats could be.

Here's a fun idea that would devastate offense but be pretty lackluster against stall



Won't do great against teams with unaware, but Beast Boost + Moxie + Simple gives Stakataka +4 Attack after it's first KO, which it should have no problem getting in a meta where Surge Surfer, Swift Swim, Chlorophyll and Sand Rush are sure to be everywhere. Pair it with Dhelmise for even more raw power, and maybe a water absorb/levitate/sturdy user to ensure it has an easier time setting up Trick Room. If it sets up successfully, it can OHKO pretty much every offensive mon in the game with ease, even Fur Coat Kartana dies to +4 Steelworker Gyro.

Contrary + Simple is also really good against non unaware teams, the most obvious abuser I can think of being Victini. Able to net +2 Speed, Defense and SpDef with V-Create, and +4 SpAtk with Overheat is nothing to scoff at. Pair that with Stored Power and you've got a pretty solid offensive threat on your hands. Stored Power also has the benefit of giving Victini a buff that isn't negated by Unaware.
Why settle for something that any team with Unaware can wall, when you get get ridiculous power that ignores Unaware? I think this combo will be very dangerous (optionally replacing some of the mons with others sharing the same ability):

Linoone gives everyone Quick Feet, and the rest of the team donates abilities that boost attack power. If you don't like the accuracy drop from Hustle, you can either replace Crawdaunt with Machamp (to get No Guard) or replace Raticate with Breloom/Glisgor (to get Poison Heal).

Here's are a couple calcs:
252 Atk Guts Toxic Boost Hustle Adaptability Tough Claws Zangoose Facade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Mew: 440-518 (108.9 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Guts Toxic Boost Hustle Adaptability Tough Claws Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 366-431 (90.5 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Or if Kyurem-B isn't banned and banned abilities aren't really banned, put Kyurem-B in Raticate's place and you get this:
252 Atk Guts Toxic Boost Adaptability Tough Claws Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Fur Coat Mew: 671-790 (166 - 195.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
I like it, gonna pitch something else using that idea that's a lot more situational but potentially extremely effective.



It's unfortunate that this gets so thoroughly dunked on by ground types, but any team without an electric immunity is going to have a tough time with Tapu Koko, since with Galvanize it get's an absurdly powerful Facade, along with being one of the fastest mons in the game. M-Beedrill doesn't gain much, but lends the team Adaptability and appreciates the tough claws boost, along with Galvanize allowing it to hit stuff like Celesteela for Super Effective, which would've previously walled it. Luxray isn't a great mon exactly, but get's a reasonably powerful priority move in Galvanize Quick Attack and lends Guts to everyone.

Also, if this goes up on ROM or something I would love to run a Pex/Ferrothorn/Garchomp core. Chip damage for days son.
 
Yeah I wasn't meaning to imply that Mold Breaker shouldn't be banned, since I agree with you on that, was just using it as an example of how certain abilities check other abilities, and so I think a semi-minimal banlist would be better to start off to see how all the abilities play off of eachother. Glad to hear that not all the abilities you listed are going to be on the initial banlist as that was my main concern, I think we're on the same page here.

I think Regenerator should be looked out for but not threat #1. It has absurdly good synergy with Pressure, Multiscale, Fur Coat, Magic Guard and others and could make combating stall nearly impossible for any team that doesn't carry massive wallbreaking power. (Though that's pretty achievable here so, again, not sure how powerful it'd be in practice)

Charizard-Y sounds strong, and is a fantastic weather setter, but honestly doesn't even come close to the firepower (lol) of something like Greninja. On top of that, it lacks priority and has a 4x weakness to Accelerock. Not a big deal except for the fact that I can see Lycanroc-dusk getting used a lot in this meta as one of the only non-mega tough claws donors. It's very threatening with Solar Power, but that requires the use of some extremely niche mons, and most Adaptability mons don't really benefit from Drought outside of the Chlorophyll boost. Meanwhile, every Chlorophyll donor is having their own weaknesses exacerbated by the sun. I still think Sun could end up being a better weather option than rain, but that doesn't mean Zard-Y is busted. Honestly I feel sand could be the most threatening atm.

Agree that banned abilities should still be allowed on mons that already get them and just not spread, at least at first, there aren't too many issues that spring to mind immediately other than Shedinja who would obviously need to be banned.

Also, like the core, but it seems a little underwhelming given how powerful a lot of this meta's threats could be.

Here's a fun idea that would devastate offense but be pretty lackluster against stall



Won't do great against teams with unaware, but Beast Boost + Moxie + Simple gives Stakataka +4 Attack after it's first KO, which it should have no problem getting in a meta where Surge Surfer, Swift Swim, Chlorophyll and Sand Rush are sure to be everywhere. Pair it with Dhelmise for even more raw power, and maybe a water absorb/levitate/sturdy user to ensure it has an easier time setting up Trick Room. If it sets up successfully, it can OHKO pretty much every offensive mon in the game with ease, even Fur Coat Kartana dies to +4 Steelworker Gyro.

Contrary + Simple is also really good against non unaware teams, the most obvious abuser I can think of being Victini. Able to net +2 Speed, Defense and SpDef with V-Create, and +4 SpAtk with Overheat is nothing to scoff at. Pair that with Stored Power and you've got a pretty solid offensive threat on your hands.
This is an issue I saw with Contrary off the bat and pretty much the reason it’s in the initial threatlist and not Simple. Simple requires the use of really really bad mons like Bibarel/Swoobat. One downside I see with Contrary, though, is that it can’t be used viably in tandem with stat-raising moves and abilities like Beast Boost, Quiver Dance, etc.

Another strategy I can see being useful is Magic Guard + Sturdy for balanced teams. Sturdy means all of your Pokemon will survive any hit at 100% and pretty much give them a turn to do anything they want. Also for the core you posted, Stakataka sounds like a lot of fun as a mon to use in an offense dominated meta. Lastly, Victini would definitely not be allowed if Contrary was. Stored Power / Overheat / V-create / filler is all it really needs and again, I don’t want this meta to turn into one where Heatran is a must. And as for the core I posted, well, it’s meant to be used alongside mons like Intimidate Lando-t, Toxapex, etc to give them more defensive power.

Another thing I wanted to share: in a meta without much hazard removal + HO bias, Sticky Web is gonna be a good playstyle.

Araquanid stands out as probably the best setter, donating the amazing Water Bubble to teams which gives a boost to Water moves, a legitimate resistance to Fire, and an immunity to troublesome burns. Shuckle offers one half of the nice Sturdy + Magic Guard combination, and can additionally set Stealth Rock for teams, also.

Why settle for something that any team with Unaware can wall, when you get get ridiculous power that ignores Unaware? I think this combo will be very dangerous (optionally replacing some of the mons with others sharing the same ability):

Linoone gives everyone Quick Feet, and the rest of the team donates abilities that boost attack power. If you don't like the accuracy drop from Hustle, you can either replace Crawdaunt with Machamp (to get No Guard) or replace Raticate with Breloom/Glisgor (to get Poison Heal).

Here's are a couple calcs:
252 Atk Guts Toxic Boost Hustle Adaptability Tough Claws Zangoose Facade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Mew: 440-518 (108.9 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Guts Toxic Boost Hustle Adaptability Tough Claws Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 366-431 (90.5 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Or if Kyurem-B isn't banned and banned abilities aren't really banned, put Kyurem-B in Raticate's place and you get this:
252 Atk Guts Toxic Boost Adaptability Tough Claws Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Fur Coat Mew: 671-790 (166 - 195.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I really like the creativity behind this. Just wondering though, how did you manage to get those calcs with all of those abilities at once? That’d be pretty helpful if/when this meta kicks off :)

On a last note: I still need a name for the metagame! Linkability would have been great in my opinion, but with the existence of Linked and Multibility, that can’t really happen. Let me know if any of you have suggestions! I actually brainstormed and threw in a few of my own:

- Shared Power (!!!)
- Strength In Numbers
- Divility
 
This is an issue I saw with Contrary off the bat and pretty much the reason it’s in the initial threatlist and not Simple. Simple requires the use of really really bad mons like Bibarel/Swoobat. One downside I see with Contrary, though, is that it can’t be used viably in tandem with stat-raising moves and abilities like Beast Boost, Quiver Dance, etc.

Another strategy I can see being useful is Magic Guard + Sturdy for balanced teams. Sturdy means all of your Pokemon will survive any hit at 100% and pretty much give them a turn to do anything they want. Also for the core you posted, Stakataka sounds like a lot of fun as a mon to use in an offense dominated meta. Lastly, Victini would definitely not be allowed if Contrary was. Stored Power / Overheat / V-create / filler is all it really needs and again, I don’t want this meta to turn into one where Heatran is a must. And as for the core I posted, well, it’s meant to be used alongside mons like Intimidate Lando-t, Toxapex, etc to give them more defensive power.

Another thing I wanted to share: in a meta without much hazard removal + HO bias, Sticky Web is gonna be a good playstyle.

Araquanid stands out as probably the best setter, donating the amazing Water Bubble to teams which gives a boost to Water moves, a legitimate resistance to Fire, and an immunity to troublesome burns. Shuckle offers one half of the nice Sturdy + Magic Guard combination, and can additionally set Stealth Rock for teams, also.


I really like the creativity behind this. Just wondering though, how did you manage to get those calcs with all of those abilities at once? That’d be pretty helpful if/when this meta kicks off :)

On a last note: I still need a name for the metagame! Linkability would have been great in my opinion, but with the existence of Linked and Multibility, that can’t really happen. Let me know if any of you have suggestions! I actually brainstormed and threw in a few of my own:

- Shared Power (!!!)
- Strength In Numbers
- Divility
How about Ability Potluck?
 
^ BYOBility ;)

In regards to Victini, I don't think it's entirely broken with contrary, as dark types + unaware/flash fire stop it dead, it's typing isn't great defensively, and it's speed tier is just okay. It's threatening but it's riskier to use than other offensive threats imo. I'd say at least suspect it, but a quickban is too much.

Also just thought of something:



It's a shame there are so few mons that get Storm Throw/Frost Breath, but whatever. Storm Throw always gets a crit, has it's power increased by Technician and Sniper, and can be boosted further by Tough Claws/Adaptability if you want. Pangoro also has the added benefit of being one of the few pokemon out there with access to Mold Breaker, meaning it can still get crits on stall teams with battle armor.
 
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On a last note: [SIZE=5 said:
I still need a name for the metagame![/SIZE] Linkability would have been great in my opinion, but with the existence of Linked and Multibility, that can’t really happen. Let me know if any of you have suggestions! I actually brainstormed and threw in a few of my own:

- Shared Power (!!!)
- Strength In Numbers
- Divility
Abiliteam? Abilitrail?
 
Why settle for something that any team with Unaware can wall, when you get get ridiculous power that ignores Unaware? I think this combo will be very dangerous (optionally replacing some of the mons with others sharing the same ability):

Linoone gives everyone Quick Feet, and the rest of the team donates abilities that boost attack power. If you don't like the accuracy drop from Hustle, you can either replace Crawdaunt with Machamp (to get No Guard) or replace Raticate with Breloom/Glisgor (to get Poison Heal).

Here's are a couple calcs:
252 Atk Guts Toxic Boost Hustle Adaptability Tough Claws Zangoose Facade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Mew: 440-518 (108.9 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Guts Toxic Boost Hustle Adaptability Tough Claws Linoone Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 366-431 (90.5 - 106.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Or if Kyurem-B isn't banned and banned abilities aren't really banned, put Kyurem-B in Raticate's place and you get this:
252 Atk Guts Toxic Boost Adaptability Tough Claws Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Fur Coat Mew: 671-790 (166 - 195.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
where did you get the calcs?

WEATHERMONS
Metagame Premise: a Pet Mod which hopes to bring new light to pokemon that have potential to work well in teams, but falter and are deemed not good enough to use their weather sets to their full potential

Rules: Pokemon May have their Type, Ability, Stats, or Movepool changed to benefit from Weather. The changed stats may not be changed by more than 60 BST. There will be slates and voting, for which Pokemon become changed.
Example Pokemon:


I know I have posted this before, but here is a better explanation/revamp of the old one. Will upload Q&A Tomorrow.​
I quite like this pet mod idea
 
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I really like the creativity behind this. Just wondering though, how did you manage to get those calcs with all of those abilities at once? That’d be pretty helpful if/when this meta kicks off :)
In the calculator, I put Guts as the ability, then set Atk to +1 to simulate Hustle. Then I manually changed the base power to simulate the other abilities. The calcs might be a little off depending on how Toxic Boost works (I believe the simulator shows it as a boost to the attack stat, but the description in Teambuilder suggests it changes base power instead, not sure which is right so I went with base power because it was easier to simulate).

Also, if you're using my team, I recommend having a rock setter lead - it takes care of Sturdy and is virtually impossible to remove given this team's offensive presence.
 
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People have been alluding to Linked as of late, so I'm wondering what could be done in terms of bringing it back. The most obvious change would be the incorporation of Z-moves. I imagine these could be slightly interesting to allow a one-time use of a linked move outside of its link, for whatever reason; alternatively, in a more fun vein, use two Z-moves sequentially if they are both valid with the same stone! You could do something really wacky, like Z-Splash + Return... regular Lopunny. Was gonna say Gyarados but Splash is normal-type, so it'd have to resort to a non-STAB Return or something for this particular combo. A Z-Forest's Curse + Bloom Doom Trevenant could be interesting for a makeshift Clangorous Scales. Lots to think about here!
 
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This would most likely be a Pet Mod if it were to be accepted. I posted this idea in the new Pet Mods General Discussion thread, since they allow idea pitches like this thread, but I'm going to post it here as well so I can get more thoughts.

The Chosen Ones

The main idea of this Pet Mod is that it will be a metagame with only 25 Pokemon in it, but since there are so few in it, it will make it very easy to balance and build teams for. This will be done by changing movepools, abilities, base stats, and rarely typings as well (mostly just for Pokemon whose roles are to be anti-meta like how Rotom is in NU), but not adding any signatures.

To decide which Pokemon will be in, we will have a vote for it. Users will submit up to four Pokemon per round that they think have an interesting concept (like with competitive use, with Mew's being a "jack of all trades, master of none.") There will then be a voting phase and the Pokemon with the most votes will be added in. This changes a little bit when we have 20, since the last 5 Pokemon will be for which Pokemon people think will balance the metagame the most (like if there's a metagame with 3 Fire Pokemon, maybe adding a Water and a Ground Pokemon, for example). After that, we'll buff or nerf them all to be in OU while keeping them true to their competitive roles.

As for questions...
- Is the method for choosing Pokemon too complicated or too much?
- Is the rule that you can for the most part only change movepools, abilities, and base stats too restricting for a Pet Mod?
- Anyone have any opinions, or are there any other problems I haven't noticed?
 
Update on Linked: Hack Guy has voiced a severe distaste for the use of Z-moves, which makes sense considering how offensively powerful the sheer presence of two consecutive moves already is. Any second opinions would be much appreciated.
 
Meta Idea:

You are what you wear(help me come up with a better name)

your main typing is replaced with the corresponding item to the 1.2x boost secondary if shiny; the first move in move slot becomes a different type depending on item

Tapu Koko @ Never-Melt Ice
Ability: Electric Surge
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot
- Volt Switch

In this case tapu koko would become a ice electric type with dazzling gleam becoming a ice move


KyuremB
Having Powerful stab in ether fusion bolt into ice or becoming electric type or becoming steel dragon there is way to many things this can do


1.2x items can be plates, or the main 1.2x

is this to similar to a different meta?

Edit: It could be totally different from platemons or what ever that is called by removing the type change and just have the items changing the first moves typing would that be a better idea?