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Metagame Workshop

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Uselesscrab, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. TylerWithNumbers

    TylerWithNumbers

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    If it hasn't been approved by a moderator, then it isn't an official OM according to them
    The Immortal likes this.
  2. Exploudit

    Exploudit

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    Wouldn't it be a little too similar to Cross Evolution though? Just a thought.
  3. Summonerrisa4o1

    Summonerrisa4o1

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    While it sounds similar, it's very different.
    While cross evolution basically combines the abilities, moves, and items, frantic fusions sort of allows you to have both pokemon at once.

    I'll explain it in more detail:

    let's assume we're fusing rayquaza and serperior (badass snakes are badass)

    abilities:

    In CE, people would make up some insane combination of air lock and contrary.
    In FF, you'd get both abilities at once.

    moves:

    In CE, you'd get some freaky and awesome combination of two moves, along with both movesets.
    in FF, you'd simply get the movesets of both. As a result, people who want a good moveset will mostly use smeargle.(you can give him prankster or something too!)

    names/appearances:

    in CE, you'd have a name that's a combination of both, and a sprite that combines both.
    in FF, you'd have it appear as one(base pokemon) and have the name of the other one. This fusion would be called Rayquaza(Serperior) or Serperior(Rayquaza).

    stats:

    to be honest, I have no idea whatsoever how this works in CE.
    In FF, it each base stat would be the average of that base stat for each of the two pokemon. I don't know serperior's base stats, so I'll use another example instead:

    chansey's hp+shuckle's hp:270
    270/2=135 hp

    chansey's def+shuckle's def:235
    235/2= 117 def(round down)

    and so on.

    as you can see, chansey(shuckle) is an excellent tank; however, there are dangerous offensive threats(think adabtability marshadow or a draco meteor serperior) that balance it out.

    types:

    In CE, the types are chosen by the users who make the submissions.
    In frantic fusions, you can choose your types based on shininess. If your pokemon is non-shiny, it will have the first type of the base pokemon and the first type of the fused pokemon; if it's shiny, it will have the first type of the base pokemon and the second type of the other pokemon.

    If I have made any omissions or errors regarding the information above, please tell me and I will fix it as quickly as possible.

    TylerWithNumbers, could I get it approved despite it being somebody else's idea?


    EDIT:I was stupid and confused cross evolution with fusion evolution.
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  4. Yahooboo

    Yahooboo

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    you're thinking of the fusion evolution pet mod, not the cross evolution OM lol
  5. Summonerrisa4o1

    Summonerrisa4o1

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    I guess I did lmao
    However, cross evolution is basically a om version of fusion evolution.
    I guess it could be summarized like this:
    Cross Evolution is different from frantic fusions.
    I give upon explaining. Just play both on a server where they're available(urkerab's or dragon heaven, you can challenge the bot on urkerab's)
  6. Yahooboo

    Yahooboo

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    nah they're a hell of a lot different
    Samtendo09, Schpoonman, nv and 5 others like this.
  7. drampa's grandpa

    drampa's grandpa formerly The Ruins of Alpha

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    Summonerrisa4o1
    I think the basic answer to your original question is probably that you would submit the meta like any other, despite being on another server. As Tyler said if it hasn't been approved then it's not really an om and isn't going to get a thread.

    You'd also likely need to get creation from the original creator of the meta, whoever that may be.
  8. Summonerrisa4o1

    Summonerrisa4o1

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    Thanks! Hopefully I won't have too much trouble.

    EDIT: I've been searching around a while, and still haven't found an answer. It's made me appreciate the hard work of whoever put VCG 2017 on showdown, even though I'm not a VCG fan myself.
    credit to Urkerab for being very helpful.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  9. blergsid

    blergsid

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    PERMASTATUS

    Premise: what if all status moves that used to linger after being used(ex. tailwind, weather, or terrains) now stay around forever! To clarify, these status conditions can only be permatriggered by moves, not abilities. Any thing that would take them away normally, such as a new weather condition or using trick room while its already up will remove it, and anything that is removed upon a switch will still be gone.

    Threats: weather teams, obviously. They will, however, need to use the move rather than switch-in ability to create weather, and it can still be removed by rivals, causing anti-weather mons like t-tar or alolan-ninetales to become more common. Screens and aurora veil will also be very good, but using brick break or defog will remove them. Taunt, magic coat/bounce and snatch will all be good due to the prevalance of status moves and the ability to steal them for yourself or stop the opponent's. Non-removable moves like mist, safeguard and tailwind are all extremely powerful, but will cost you a turn and be risky. Any mon that is slow, uses weather, or has prankster are now much stronger.
    Thoughts?
  10. AquaticPanic

    AquaticPanic

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    We have already that meta that keeps field effects that are active in turn 6 onward to be permanent. This is very simillar to it and would probably just get overshadowed.
  11. Summonerrisa4o1

    Summonerrisa4o1

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    As AquaticPanic said, there's lockdown.
    I might be a hypocrite for saying this, but it doesn't seem to be very different from lockdown tbh
  12. DrPumpkinz

    DrPumpkinz

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    I like the idea of Permastatus. It would give use to the terrain moves, since the terrains from the Tapus aren't permanent. Tailwind might be an issue, however, since there is no way to remove it once it's up.
  13. SadisticMystic

    SadisticMystic

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    In my formulation of the idea, called Staying Power, I allowed Defog to remove all the one-sided field effects (in a departure from normal rules) just so the opponent would actually be able to do something about those.

    The recent discovery that Aurora Veil isn't actually cumulative with the other screens does mitigate some of the wisdom of fortress-building, but if you try to incentivize using lots of these permanent effects, you can't help but meet a natural disincentive in the form of Pokemon using a surprise trapping move to set up for a sweep against a completely passive opponent, similar to how BH punishes attempted sweepers that are too all-encompassing at their task.
  14. MacChaeger

    MacChaeger formerly OU banned my masquerain

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    Doubles Dance (Get it? Like "Double Dance"? Haha)
    Metagame Premise:
    Doubles-based meta where every Pokemon has Dancer in addition to their normal ability, and every move is a dance move.

    Potential Bans and Threats:
    • These aren't exactly bans, but the moves Assist, Beak Blast, Bide, Copycat, Focus Punch, Ice Ball, Instruct, Me First, Metronome, Mimic, Mirror Move, Nature Power, Rollout, Shell Trap, Sketch, Sleep Talk, and Transform, as well as charge moves, recharge moves, and Z-Moves will not be copied. These are all the moves that Instruct cannot make a Pokemon use, and since Instruct and Dancer are more similar to each other than they are to any other mechanics, I felt this was necessary. After all, most if not all of these moves would be mechanically broken, if not merely unbalanced. Note that Instruct doesn't work on Outrage, Petal Dance, or Thrash, but since Dancer does work on Petal Dance, I figured it should work on Outrage and Thrash in the same way.
    • EDIT: The moves Self-Destruct, Explosion, Final Gambit, Memento, Healing Wish, Lunar Dance, and Belly Drum are quick-banned.
    • The ability Magic Bounce and the move Magic Coat are potential bans, as they essentially allow someone to use a status move that hits both opponents on their opponent 4 times in one turn while the opponent can't fire anything back unless they also have some kind of bouncing effect. For Example, Tail Whip Espeon could instantly lower the defense of both opposing Pokemon by 4 stages in just one move with no recoil of any kind, allowing a partner like Zygarde to deal massive amounts of damage. This, I feel, negates the purpose of the meta in a very unhealthy way, and such a strategy is not easily countered; after all, it's pretty hard to taunt something that's bouncing status moves. The only real recourse I can think of is to run Magic Bounce yourself, which is textbook over-centralization.
    • The moves Protect, Spiky Shield, Baneful Bunker, King's Shield, Detect, and Endure are all potential bans because two Pokemon using a protection move or Destiny Bond on the same turn will not only activate the move for both Pokemon (as well as their opponents), it will also reset the counter of successive Protection moves used for the slower of the two. On the following turn, the faster one can either succeed in using the move or reset its own counter by failing it so that when the slower one uses the move, they will both succeed again anyway. What this means is that the first two turns of full team protection is guaranteed, and there's an approximate 70% chance of getting a third. When combined with effects like Perish Song, this could potentially be broken, but there are ways of bypassing protection such as Feint and Hoopa's formes' signature moves, and I can't help but feel that this might be what it takes for stall to be viable in a doubles meta.
    • Destiny Bond works similarly to the protection moves listed above in that two Pokemon spamming it can successfully have Destiny Bond active for two turns in a row 100% of the time, but while Destiny Bond lacks priority when not used by Mega Banette and is therefore vulnerable to faster attackers, it's still very dangerous when used by just one Pokemon like Gengar or Mega Banette because it makes the user's whole team dangerous to attack while allowing the user's ally to do something with their turn. That said, they can't exactly KO something freely, since the opponents will also have used Destiny Bond. Also, because Destiny Bond's success rate is 0% after 1 use, it will always fail for both users on the third turn of double Destiny Bond.
    • The move Hyperspace Fury fails when used by any Pokemon whose current form is not Hoopa-Unbound, so Hoopa-U would be able to use its signature protection-bypassing move without fear of retaliation, making it potentially very threatening, and an ally Mew with Transform could do the same. As such, Hoopa-Unbound is potentially very dangerous when paired with the right ally. The same goes for Dark Void, but that's already banned from Doubles anyway.
    • Trick + Choice Scarf can be very powerful, if used right. If a Pokemon is choice-locked into a move, any other move it tries to copy with Dancer will fail, so tricking a Scarf onto an opponent's Pokémon will stop it from copying every move used, seriously disrupting their strategy.
    • Heal Pulse is another example of a powerful move that could potentially backfire. Moves copied by Dancer always target a random opponent, so if your Pokemon uses Heal Pulse on its ally, that ally will use Heal Pulse on a random opponent, but each opponent will use Heal Pulse back at your side, resulting in a total of 3 Heal Pulses for your side, and only one for your opponent. However, it's entirely possible that the Heal Pulses copied by the opponent will be wasted while the one directed at their side could turn the tide of battle.
    • Any Pokemon that is immune to both its own moves as well as its ally's is of course very powerful in this meta. For example, a Landorus-Therian and a Flygon could each use Earthquake, resulting in a total of 2 Earthquakes used each, while the 4 Earthquakes used in retaliation would at most only damage the opponent's ally. Of course, that particular strategy is soundly stopped by two opposing Ground-immune Pokemon or Wide Guard, but you get the general idea.
    • Speaking of Wide Guard, it and Quick Guard will be even more useful in this meta than in doubles. After all, not only will spread moves and priority moves be even more tempting to abuse, other protection moves don't allow you to hit your opponent with an attack on the same turn.
    • Mat Block is uniquely useful in this meta as it only works on the user's first turn out, which means that if the opponent's Pokemon didn't switch in that turn, they won't be able to copy the move and will be unprotected from that turn's onslaught of moves. However, keep in mind that a move which doesn't successfully hit anything won't be copied by Dancer, so your team won't be able to copy any attacking moves used by the opponents into your protection unless the move is a spread move that happens to hit the user's ally. And, of course, the move only works once per switch-in and is only available on Greninja, Smeargle (of course), and the ever slow Throh.
    • Not that being slow is necessarily a problem, right? Trick Room is very powerful in doubles, after all. Unfortunately, because Trick Room reverses itself if used while the effect is already active, and there just so happen to be an even number of Pokemon active most of the time, trying to set Trick Room as one would normally will result in the move activating, deactivating, activating again, and then deactivating again. However, if one of the active Pokemon happens to be locked into another move, either by a Choice item, by using a move like Outrage, or by the move Encore, then Trick Room will end up being active by the end of the turn, which can give a player that builds their team wisely a huge advantage. After all, when multiple Dancers are active, they will copy a move in order of lowest to highest raw speed. Sorry for burying the lead there, but this is consistent with the actual mechanics of Dancer in-game, making naturally slow Pokemon invaluable to take the most advantage of this chaotic metagame. Of course, without Trick Room, slow Pokemon still make their own moves last, so players will want to balance their teams with both fast and slow Pokemon. Of course, if they can manage to get Trick Room active, slow Pokemon will dominate, so players may be advised to bring their own Choice users to be switched in against potential Trick Room setters.
    Questions:
    • Are protect moves really all that broken? What about Magic Bounce?
    • What else not mentioned above is potentially a threat in this meta?
    • What are some good pairs of Pokemon that don't mind their moves being used back at them?
    • Is Trick Room worth the hassle to set up?
    • Is the meta too complicated? If so, is it the premise of the meta, or the mechanics of Dancer? Is there any way to make it simpler? I'd prefer to stay true to Dancer's mechanics, but boy they sure are weird.
    • Did I maybe go overboard on the threats section?
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
  15. SadisticMystic

    SadisticMystic

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    FEAR Pain Split generally works a lot like Nature's Madness, but hitting both opponents at once.

    "Accelgor used Final Gambit! [Guzzlord's Dancer] Guzzlord used Final Gambit!" for when you really want to simplify the field. Or even...if both sides have at least Pokemon left, is there anything other than Taunt, Assault Vest, or choice-locking yourself that would stop Healing Wish from forcing everyone to drink the Kool-Aid? You might want to ban Healing Wish just because of how dumb that is.

    Choice Scarf Vivillon can use Powder, a +1 priority move that notably beats any Mat Block, and possibly cover both opponents (as well as itself) in powder, then its teammate can be some Safety Goggles Fire-type with Heat Wave. The Safety Goggles prevent its own move from tripping the Powder, Vivillon's Scarf prevents it from using Heat Wave after possibly being powdered, but the opponents attempt to use Heat Wave only to have it blow up in their faces, on top of the damage they took from the original move.

    It seems pretty tough to tame, but if you can have Scarf Gourgeist use Trick-or-Treat ahead of a teammate's Curse, you could try to force the opponents to use Ghost Curse to cripple their own HP, and if they have innate ghosts out anyway for fear of something like Final Gambit spam, you can skip the Gourgeist and just feed them Curse from the get-go. The tough part is finding a partner that can't be fooled into using the Ghost version of Curse, otherwise you could just feed everyone Belly Drum and be done with it.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
  16. Summonerrisa4o1

    Summonerrisa4o1

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    Inkay used V-Create!
    I think this is an awesome metagame idea.
  17. MacChaeger

    MacChaeger formerly OU banned my masquerain

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    Oh, it seems I accidentally removed the part of the post that said that all suicide moves (Self-Destruct, Explosion, Final Gambit, Memento, Healing Wish, Lunar Dance, and anything else I'm forgetting that can ko a non-Shedinja user from full instantly), but even if I had remembered to leave it in, it would have been missing Belly Drum, which I had intended to quick-ban as well. I'll edit the post now with these. I think I'll let Curse stay for now, although that Trevenant strat sounds pretty scary. Pain Split is probably the best idea for recovery available since most recovery moves will just heal the opponent's Pokémon as well.
    TylerWithNumbers likes this.
  18. LordHelix

    LordHelix

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    Hello everyone its ya boi guzma, so im back today with a new metagame idea except now im suggesting a pet mod. Here it goes
    Balancemons
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Metagame premise: have you ever wanted to use ubers in ou? Miss using pheromosa and mega-gross in ou? Well this metagame makes your dreams come true!

    The point of this meta is nerfing ubers enough to be useable in ou (around B to A+ ranks of viability) also bringing most cover ubers stats down to 540-600ish bst and 650ish bst for megas

    Examples:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Groudon
    100/130/100/50/90/90 (560bst)
    Primal-Groudon
    100/145/145/90/90/90 (660bst)
    New ability: Drought
    Primal Orb: it is now counted as a mega, so u cant have both an orb and mega on the same team u will have to choose only one
    Difference (open)
    a much more toned down pdon, still a top mon i believe but now it has an opportunity cost and manageable lando-like stats

    Also, no immunity to water yay

    [​IMG]
    Ho-oh
    100/110/90/70/110/90 (570 bst)
    Difference (open)
    so i toned down ho-ohs stupid ass spdef and nerfed his spa and atk alot, so i think this mon is more manageable but still very versatile

    [​IMG]
    Aegislash
    60/50/110/50/110/60 (440 bst and pseudo 560 bst)
    Move changes: (King's shield) protects from attacks. Lowers attack by 1.
    Difference (open)
    New and nerfed Aegislash, so basically aegislash's godly defenses get reduced alot while its offenses get reduced so it doesnt hit that hard without investment, yea has a godly typing but its average bulk, common fire/ground weakness and lack of recovery will hold it back

    [​IMG]
    Marshadow
    90/106/80/85/90/109 (560 bst)
    Moves removed: Swagger
    Difference (open)
    Marshadows speed has been toned down to be outsped by threats such as diancie and other 110s while also removing swagthief shenangians, still has busted ass spectral thief to abuse tho

    Potential bans and threats: i think shadow tag and arena trap is a hopeless case, u cant nerf the ability without ruining the idea completely, idk what else but hopefully nothing else as this meta is supposed to have as least mon bans as possible

    Questions for the community:
    • uh so what do u think of this petmod/meta?
    • Can this idea even work?
    • Am i nerfing too much/not nerfing enough?
    • What can i do to improve this idea?
  19. BPGXMG

    BPGXMG

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    This is a pet mod already I believe.
    ace 434 and Exploudit like this.
  20. Exploudit

    Exploudit

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    Nerfmons is already pretty similar, with the main difference that Nerfmons nerfs things down to NU and this to OU I assume.
    The Cruelest likes this.
  21. LordHelix

    LordHelix

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    Yea i guess theyre pretty similar but its different enough to distinguish from it

    ou metagame is completely different than the nu, also ou is more popular than nu plus nerfmons has been kinda dead no offense

    Hm if i do have to add something to make it more unique should i make it so that i buff even lower tier mons too so everything becomes ou viable or should i just leave at ubers to ou
  22. Exploudit

    Exploudit

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    Doing that would make it kind of a mix between Optimons and Nerfmons. I mean, it would differ from both but imo this kind of nerfing / buffing idea is already fulfilled by those two metas.
    LordHelix likes this.
  23. LordHelix

    LordHelix

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    All the good ideas were taken already dam :/
    Exploudit likes this.
  24. Anaconja

    Anaconja

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    (original idea by Popham on main, don't know his Smogon username if he has one)

    Flipmons
    Metagame premise: Lowest stat(s) are doubled, highest stat(s) are halved, rounded up.
    Potential bans and threats:
    Bans: Huge Power, Pure Power, Serperior, Flygon would all be banned: Medicham would get 120 Attack, and everyone knows how Azumarill turned out in Stat Switch. Serperior gets 150 HP, Attack, and Special Attack, and Flygon gets 160 in everything but Attack and Speed.

    Threats:
    Offensive (open)

    Regigigas: 110/80/110/160/110/100
    Ludicolo: 80/140/140/90/50/140
    Poliwrath: 90/48/48/140/90/140
    Dragonite: 91/67/95/100/100/160
    Celesteela: 97/101/103/54/101/122
    Latias: 160/160/90/110/65/110
    Keldeo: 91/144/90/65/90/108
    Marowak-Alola: 60/80/55/50/80/90
    Zygarde: 108/100/61/162/95/95
    Garchomp: 108/65/95/160/85/102
    Nidoqueen: 90/46/87/150/85/76

    Defensive (open)

    Hydreigon: 92/105/180/63/180/98
    Arcanine: 90/55/160/100/160/95
    Landorus-Therian: 89/73/90/105/160/91
    Tornadus-Therian: 178/100/80/110/90/61
    Venusaur-Mega: 160/100/62/122/120/160
    Swoobat: 67/57/110/77/110/67
    Mienshao: 65/63/120/95/120/105

    Questions for the community:
    - Popham suggested splitting the base stats if there were multiple highest/lowest stats (for example, Poliwrath would have 90/71/71/105/90/105). Which rule would be better?
    - Is this too similar to Stat Switch?
  25. readytolose

    readytolose

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    Flipmons would indeed be similar to stat switch. In fact some of the base stats would end up nearly identical. If a Pokemon's lowest stat is half of its highest one, then it will end up the same as Stat Switch. This applies to quite a few Pokemon: for example, Stat Switch threats Breloom and Azumarill are practically the same in Flipmons as they are in Stat Switch (Azumarill's stats are exactly the same). The way this differs from Stat Switch is that Stat Switch favours pokemon with really skewed stat lines with its one or two stats much higher than the others (For example, Carbink would hit 150/150/50/150/50/150 stats), while in Flipmons having high stats is more of a double-edged sword (in this meta, Carbink has 100/100/75/100/75/100, which is considerably more mediocre). Another example is Shuckle, the speed king of Stat Switch, who is rather useless in Flipmons, trading most of its bulk for 10 base speed. From these we can assume the greatest winners in Flipmons have relatively balanced stats, with its lowest stat being still relatively high. Of course it depends on a lot of other factors too. This is perhaps the greatest difference between Stat switch and Flipmons
    Exploudit, Sereg and Anaconja like this.

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