What if you use a normal-type move while you are of a different type?
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Metagamiate!
- Thread starter Pikachuun
- Start date
You change to Normal type and the move gets boosted by Ordinate. So Greninja sucks in this meta.
Both breloom and luxray have their benefits. Breloom has useful recovery and spore, while luxray has more power with guts and better offensive typing getting almost perfect coverage with just ice fang (even though a resisted facade does more than a super effective ice fang, its still useful against 4× and grounds) luxrays bulk is also decent for a sweper and because breloom runs poison heal its priority is weaker too. Luxray doesnt even care if you resist its facade-
252+ Atk Life Orb Guts Luxray Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 192-227 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Breloom against pure grass type mega venusaur-
252+ Atk Life Orb Breloom Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 136-161 (37.3 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Even if breloom can 2hko a togekiss it can't live an air slash. The only way to 2hko the standard physically defensive zapdos is boosted or with a rock move.
It's a decision between raw power and better facade typing with luxray, or healing and sleep move with breloom. Obviously it ends up with which fits best into your team.
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Breloom with Substitute, Facade, Spore, Focus Punch is horrifically annoying to fight. Spore knocks out your initial switch-in, Poison Heal is obviously a fantastic ability that heals it for it to set up more substitutes, then Focus Punch and Facade for dual-stab action; it's a literal killer. Insanely powerful
The cool thing is all of its switch-ins are hindered heavily by entry hazards (Togekiss / Noivern / Dragonite / Entei / Arcanine etc) with some exceptions (Clefable and Aegislash) so get them stealth rocks up kids.
I agree, breloom runs a specific job of annoying the opponent to death, a speciality shared only with gliscor who finds itself incapable of putting stuff to sleep. And breloom finds it's niche in this meta for sure. Watch out for noiverns though little mushroom, there is a way though...
252+ Atk Life Orb Breloom Focus Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 211-248 (67.8 - 79.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Don't forget to get them rocks up kids (you didn't forget from when scarfnaut told you... did you?)
Actually, that doesn't happen. I battled someone and after their greninja used water shuriken, it used return and became a water-type...
Greninja is primarily a water type so that's why that happens.
EDIT: simsims2800 (Post 261) It should become a normal type when it uses Return but if it doesn't then maybe Pikachuun made a mistake whilst coding this or maybe he can explain
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But it was a protean greninja... and that's not supposed to happen.
I read the OP and it seems that is supposed to happen. It was a water-type since it used water shuriken, then return becomes water type anyway.
Protean must activate after the type normal is changed to is determined.
An interesting point that's occurred to me: Ghost's immunity to Normal and Rock and Steel's resistance to Normal are substantially reduced in value in this meta, since most Pokemon are incapable of a Normal-typed attack in the first place. Normal isn't a prominent offensive type in the first place, but it does have relevancy since, for instance, Jirachi using Body Slam to Paralyze is not some weird Metagamiate-exclusive thing, and yet a Rock type's Normal resistance is of no value in this case. (And in fact Jirachi's Body Slam is super effective on Rock types)
Actually, if Protean interacts with Metagamiate as has been described, physical Greninja could potentially be an interesting Pokemon that dynamically alters its type to any of three types and then mashes you with Return/Frustration of whichever type it has elected to be. As Greninja gets no notable special Normal moves and its Special Attack is actually not much higher than its physical Attack, this easily outperforms trying to do similar with Special Greninja. It could do stuff like Power Up Punch on an anticipated Fighting-vulnerable switch and then break them in twain with +1 Fighting Return. Or run it as a psuedo-mixed sweeper that switches type with Special moves and then hits with Return of the same type it just used.Red Cat said:
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There are many threats in this tier and we have to have pokemon that can reliably take them on or we will obviously get destroyed. A big threat I find is banded extreme speed dragonite. My main counter is eviolite togetic but obviously togekiss can fill in the role more offensively-
Togetic @Eviolite
Serene grace (+pixilate)
252 HP / 252 Def|SpD / 4 SpA
Tri Attack
Roost
Heal bell
Defog
Immune to both of dragonites main attacks. Everyone better go and put thunder punch (Edit: iron head [Thank you ghoul king]) on their dragonites if not already.
Boomburst Noivern is also a big problem, the best counter I have found is-
Aggron @assault vest
Rock Head (+steel-ate)
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Head smash
Double edge
Earthquake
Metal burst / dragon tail
it takes the hits from noivern surprisingly well, it isn't even 2HKO'd by flamethrower. If you want it to take hits even better you can run extra in special defence.
It would be awesome if people suggested their counters to more of the dangerous pokes of this tier :)
Togetic @Eviolite
Serene grace (+pixilate)
252 HP / 252 Def|SpD / 4 SpA
Tri Attack
Roost
Heal bell
Defog
Immune to both of dragonites main attacks. Everyone better go and put thunder punch (Edit: iron head [Thank you ghoul king]) on their dragonites if not already.
Boomburst Noivern is also a big problem, the best counter I have found is-
Aggron @assault vest
Rock Head (+steel-ate)
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Head smash
Double edge
Earthquake
Metal burst / dragon tail
it takes the hits from noivern surprisingly well, it isn't even 2HKO'd by flamethrower. If you want it to take hits even better you can run extra in special defence.
It would be awesome if people suggested their counters to more of the dangerous pokes of this tier :)
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Dragonite runs Iron Head to OHKO (If Banded) Togekiss. Why would it run Thunderpunch? It's not like it's terrified of Azumarill or Gyarados.
I personally am running Tyranitar (Mega, specifically) to switch in on Noivern. (I have Aerodactyl to wreck it if they lead with it, too, and it can switch in on Noivern if they have no Stealth Rock up) There's really nothing it can do to Tyranitar with Sand up, I can Pursuit them if I think they're going to run and really really want them dead, they can't Switcheroo me (And if fact will lock themselves into Switcheroo, meaning Pursuit is foolproof), the weather gets incidental damage in... also I'm running two other Rock types that benefit from the weather themselves, but that's not the biggest reason why I'm running it. I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever see a meta where Tyranitar is actually bad.
I'm more concerned by Zygarde at this point. Any random special Ice move will instagib it of course, but if you're switching in while it Coils to then Ice Beam it, it'll just Extreme Speed you off the face of the planet. It's nasty, and the only thing I can think of as a reliable switch-in-and-counter is Scarf Togekiss, since it gets Dragon Extreme Speed/Earthquake/Stone Edge/Coil (Or it can run Dragon Dance, hence Scarfed Togekiss) to cover literally everything.
I personally am running Tyranitar (Mega, specifically) to switch in on Noivern. (I have Aerodactyl to wreck it if they lead with it, too, and it can switch in on Noivern if they have no Stealth Rock up) There's really nothing it can do to Tyranitar with Sand up, I can Pursuit them if I think they're going to run and really really want them dead, they can't Switcheroo me (And if fact will lock themselves into Switcheroo, meaning Pursuit is foolproof), the weather gets incidental damage in... also I'm running two other Rock types that benefit from the weather themselves, but that's not the biggest reason why I'm running it. I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever see a meta where Tyranitar is actually bad.
I'm more concerned by Zygarde at this point. Any random special Ice move will instagib it of course, but if you're switching in while it Coils to then Ice Beam it, it'll just Extreme Speed you off the face of the planet. It's nasty, and the only thing I can think of as a reliable switch-in-and-counter is Scarf Togekiss, since it gets Dragon Extreme Speed/Earthquake/Stone Edge/Coil (Or it can run Dragon Dance, hence Scarfed Togekiss) to cover literally everything.
I haven't actually seen iron head on dragonite yet, I literally never knew it learned it since I've never used one myself. That makes it even more troublesome. As for zygarde bronzong can take any hit, bronzong can actually deal with said dragonite set bar some other move I dont know about XD [edit: ironically every single dragonite i have come up against has fire blast/flamethrower now :P) For zygarde a physically defensive unaware clefable could work too.
Edit: possible moveset for bronzong
Bronzong @ chesto berry
Levitate Bold
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Rest
Recycle
Toxic
Gyroball
(Other usable moves- light screen, stealth rock, reflect, confuse ray, block, return, explosion katsu!)
252+ Atk Life Orb Zygarde (stab)Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 51-60 (15 - 17.7%) -- possible 6HKO
Clefable set is pretty obvious, any of the standard physically defensive sets with hyper voice over moonblast.
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I'm slowly learning how to use my team well, if anybody's interested in seeing some of my pokes in action (luxray is power) here is a battle video-
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/metagamiate-149594918
Also, dragonite is ridiculously hard to deal with in this tier with just the partner of heatran. Once my poliwrath is gone I have to make some crazy predictions to even stand a chance. Luxray one shots an aerodactyl with quick attack, some advice so that I can fall even lower on the ladder XD
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/metagamiate-149594918
Also, dragonite is ridiculously hard to deal with in this tier with just the partner of heatran. Once my poliwrath is gone I have to make some crazy predictions to even stand a chance. Luxray one shots an aerodactyl with quick attack, some advice so that I can fall even lower on the ladder XD
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Quick question: say I were to use Gastro Acid on something, would that suppress its -ate ability as well? (Likewise for effects like Mold-Breaker.) I imagine the answer is no, but I figured asking couldn't hurt.
Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
I believe no.
A soundproof mr mime could deal with dragonite and noivern while learning hyper voice (i think) haven't tried it tho.
Also, noivern can focus blast the hell out of tyraanitar.
Also, noivern can focus blast the hell out of tyraanitar.
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mr. Mime: 173-204 (60.9 - 71.8%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mr. Mime: 276-326 (97.1 - 114.7%)
:/
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
lol. noivern runs boomburst, draco meteor, flamethrower, and switcheroo. Although if many people start using ttar for that, focus blast could be made a good baitkill option I guess.
Ya but choice band will usualy lock itself on Espeed. But hey, it can still deal with noivern :)
Why would noivern run flamethrower ?
Why would noivern run flamethrower ?
Focus Blast is more common than you think. source: my tyranitar gets focus blasted all the time :CCC
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
.....mega scizor..... and every relevant steel type. Many of them arent OHKO'd by focus blast, so yeah.