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Metagross (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by zdrup15, May 7, 2011.

  1. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    Pokedex Page

    QC Approvals: PK Gaming, Bloo and Iconic (Delta 2777 and Seven Deadly Sins also approved but they were late xD)

    Status: will start to write it

    [Overview]

    • metagross stays mostly the same in gen V
    • the only things it got were psyshock and hone claws and only the latter is usable
    • it's a very good pokemon with good stats overall stats and beastly attack and defense
    • its amazing typing means it has 8 resistances and 1 immunity
    • low speed doesn't hinder its sweeping chances since it has agility and rock polish to boost it
    • the explosion nerf hurts it as it was one of the best moves it had access too
    • the increase of both fire and ground pokemon to prey on its weaknesses means it has an harder time
    • overall still a very solid pokemon with the ability to check many top threats in OU
    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Meteor Mash
    move 2: Hammer Arm
    move 3: Bullet Punch
    move 4: Pursuit / Zen Heabutt / Trick
    nature: Adamant
    item: Choice Band
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With an amazing base Attack stat and good overall bulk, Metagross is a perfect Pokemon for a Choice Band set as it lets Metagross hit very hard without any need to set up, thus making up for its only decent Speed. Meteor Mash is a powerful STAB that, despite the low accuracy, is the best option for Metagross. Hammer Arm hits almost everything Earthquake would hit for super effective damage but has the advantage of punishing Air Balloon holders, most notably Excadrill and Heatran, for switching in to threaten Metagross. Bullet Punch is the best way it has to bypass its Speed and allows Metagross to revenge kill dangerous Pokemon that would otherwise destroy it, such as Terrakion. The last slot depends on what one wants / needs Metagross to do. Pursuit is the best option as it capitalizes on Metagross's almost unique ability to avoid the 2HKO from Choice Specs Latios's Draco Meteor and threaten to OHKO it, whether or not the opponent chooses to switch out.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The nature and EV spread are obvious if one thinks about the goals of this set and they emphasize Metagross's ability to hit as hard as possible, while maintaining very good bulk. The first three moves are pretty much mandatory and the only move one should consider replacing. With the numerous Fighting-types around, Zen Headbutt is a very useful move to carry and it has the added benefit of hitting threats such as Thundurus and Volcarona much harder. Trick is always a great weapon against more stallish teams as the Choice Band will cripple any defensive Pokemon present in those. If one takes into account the fact that Gliscor is a common switch-in, the possibility to cripple it with Choice Band and another Pokemon with Toxic Orb will be a huge advantage to the team.</p>

    <p>Even though Choice Band Metagross is very powerful, the most defensive Pokemon can still take one or two hits and either try to status or set up on it. Some examples are Skarmory, Jellicent, and Gliscor that can take everything Metagross throws at them an set up entry hazards, burn it, or proceed to KO with Earthquake, respectively. However, they are all crippled by Choice Band so they should scout for Trick first. Faster hard-hitting Pokemon with super effective attacks, such as Landorus and Volcarona can often threaten Metagross out but have troubles switching in. Gyarados deserves a special mention; it can switch into anything Metagross throws at it and proceed to set up, while not being completely useless with a Choice Band.</p>

    <p>Taking into account the Pokemon Metagross has troubles breaking, Starmie is a great teammate: it has great Speed and amazing coverage , hitting all of the aforementioned threats for super effective damage. Latios is another good teammate that, when holding a Choice Specs, will hit almost every Pokemon for major damage. It also attracts Pursuit users, such as Tyranitar and Scizor, so with good prediction, one can double switch Metagross into those Pokemon threatening a KO. Finally, even though its Steel typing means Stealth Rock isn't really a problem, Spikes will hinder Metagross's ability to switch in often so Rapid Spin support is welcome. The aforementioned Starmie can perform this role, although that would require either a lack of recovery or limited coverage. Excadrill and Forretress are other options, with the former maintaining the opponent on the defense thanks to its great Attack stat, and the latter being able to set up entry hazards that help Metagross break the opponent's team. However, both have some problems: Excadrill also has troubles getting past Skarmory and Gliscor, and Forretress shares a crippling Fire-type weakness.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Stealth Rock
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Meteor Mash
    move 3: Hammer Arm
    move 4: Bullet Punch
    nature: Adamant
    item: Leftovers / Air Balloon / Occa Berry
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Lum Berry
    [SET]
    name: Agility
    move 1: Agility
    move 2: Meteor Mash
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Ice Punch / ThunderPunch / Zen Headbutt
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    item: Life Orb / Air Balloon
    evs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Meteor Mash
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Ice Punch
    move 4: Trick / Pursuit
    nature: Jolly
    item: Choice Scarf
    evs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    [SET]
    name: Trick + Iron Ball
    move 1: Trick
    move 2: Meteor Mash
    move 3: Hammer Arm / Earthquake
    move 4: ThunderPunch / Stealth Rock
    nature: Adamant
    item: Iron Ball
    evs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    [SET]
    name: Mixed
    move 1: Meteor Mash
    move 2: Hidden Power Fire
    move 3: Grass Knot
    move 4: Ice Punch
    nature: Brave
    item: Expert Belt / Life Orb
    evs: 220 HP / 136 Atk / 60 SpA / 92 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Hammer Arm but outclassed by HP Fire because the latter has the benefit of hitting the 4x weak to Fire Steel-types
    • mention Bullet Punch and say it is too weak (thanks to only hitting rock-types super effectively) but can be used if the team needs the priority
    [Other Options]

    • Hone Claws set
    [Checks and Counters]

    [Dream World]

    <p>Metagross's Dream World ability is Light Metal, which reduces the damage Metagross suffers from Grass Knot and Low Kick. This is generally useless and should never be considered over Clear Body.</p>
  2. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    Placeholder

    I'll be helping zdrup with Metagross.

    Sets I'll be doing

    -Agility

    [SET]
    name: Agility
    move 1: Agility
    move 2: Meteor Mash
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Ice Punch / ThunderPunch / Zen Headbutt
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    item: Life Orb / Air Balloon
    evs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Metagross's coveted Steel-typing, decent bulk, and a jaw dropping Attack stat allow it to run a highly effective Agility set. Since Metagross already forces out a large number of Pokemon, it will usually have no problems grabbing an Agility boost. After a boost Metagross outspeeds Jolly Scarf Garchomp and can easily devastate entire teams by itself. Meteor Mash is the preferred STAB move due to its high Base Power and slight chance of boosting Metagross's Attack stat by one stage. Earthquake has excellent coverage in the tier and wrecks most Pokemon resisting Meteor Mash, most notably Fire-types like Infernape. In the last slot, the choice of the move depends on what your team has covered. Ice Punch allows Metagross to deal with Garchomp and Gliscor while Thunder Punch prevents Gyarados from cutting Metagross's sweep short. Zen Headbutt can be used to take down Fighting types like Conkeldurr and has a 30% chance of a flinch but is usually inferior to the other options.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]


    -Mixed
  3. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    done, thanks
  4. elDino

    elDino Deal With It.
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    Have you thought about Choice Scarf? It's a respectable option, kind of like CS Tyranitar. It can also revenge kill TTar, Garchomp, and Terrakion.

    Also, good luck with the 6 set analysis!
  5. Bugbot

    Bugbot

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    It was proven in the previous analysis that 248 HP / 180 Atk / 80 SpD is better.
    248 HP and 80 SpD let Metagross tank those kind of hits. 252 HP / 176 Atk / 80 SpD is good, but it is not recommended over 248 HP / 180 Atk / 80 SpD because you lose an Attack point with the previous set:

    (176 Atk EVs) 385 at +1 = 577
    (180 Atk EVs) 386 at +1 = 579
    +1 either is a Choice Band or a Meteor Mash boost


    Besides, 248 HP instead of 252 HP gives you a better Spike number.
    Another thing, why use Trick+Iron Ball without Earthquake? This strategy was used in Gen IV to beat Zapdos, Rotom-A and Skarmory, so why ditch the key move?

    tl;dr: Change the EVs for sets #1-2-6 and explain why Trick+Iron Ball deserves a set.
  6. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    Just calced it and the 252 HP / 252 Atk EV spread isn't 2HKOed by Latios DM either. It takes 76.6% - 90.6% and the extra attack boosted by CB helps more than the SpD.

    I will slash Hammer Arm with EQ on that set.

    Thanks!
  7. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    I think you should change the "Trick/Iron Ball" set to be just a "Trick" set and give him the option of holding a Choice item. Locking the opponent into one move seems to be as useful to me as crippling it's Speed.

    Edit : Sorry, didn't realize Trick was mentioned on the CB set already. Oops!
  8. yee

    yee
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    My post in the original thread-

    I should've done more calcs, here's a better argument for running special defense EVs-

    Specs Latios Surf vs. 252/0 Metagross- 46.7-54.9%
    248/80 takes 42.7-50.4%
    Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252/80 Metagross- 46.7-55.5%.......

    You know what, just keep the current spread and list 252 HP/16 atk/240 spD as a mention for those who want it to checkmate special attackers and why so much would be needed. Here's some calcs to show its usefulness-

    Specs Meteor from Latios does 40-47%
    Pursuit while it is running- 99-117%
    Specs Surf is now easier to take as well- 36-43%

    Life Orb Gar does 40-47% with Shadow Ball
    It takes 73-85% from Pursuit if it stays in, meaning that after SR and LO it has a bad chance of surviving, guranteed to faint in Sandstorm.

    Trick Room Reuniclus now does 42.6-50.3% with Focus Blast
    The no spD spread takes 54.4-64.3%, while it still misses out on the OHKO doing 78.7-93.2%.

    Hopefully this puts the specially defensive trapping EVs debate to rest. Use this spread if you use a sweeper like Infernape, Terrakion, Virizion etc. that hates the fast and/or bulky sweepers that Metagross can trap and kill. The pursuit trapping it provides is the reason you would use it over Jirachi who is more comfortable against these threats. It also allows you to survive a +2 Hydro Pump from a Cloyster with near max spA, while no spD has a good shot at being OHKOed by no investment Cloyster.
  9. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Good job on the analysis Zdrup, I only have a few nitpicks:

    -The Stealth Rock set could use a better set of items. Lum Berry is absolutely worthless for Metagross in gen V (nobody leads with Roserade or Machamp any more) its uses are limited. Occa Berry on the other hand lets Metagross check Fire types, as well as Latios w/ HP fire. Slash EQ with Hammer Arm so that Metagross can get the OHKO on said fire types.

    The final item list should look like this: Leftovers / Air Balloon / Occa Berry

    -The Hone Claws set needs a moveset change. Earthquake and Thunderpunch should be replaced with Hammer Arm and Ice Punch respectively. Hammer Arm still gets coverage on steel types and it hits Ferrothorn Hard, while Ice Punch lets you beat Gliscor who is far more common than the bulky Water types. I'm not a fan of Leftovers on this set, it seems out of place. The set The set should look like this:

    [SET]
    name: Hone Claws
    move 1: Hone Claws
    move 2: Meteor Mash
    move 3: Hammer Arm
    move 4: Ice Punch / Bullet Punch
    nature: Adamant
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    Also the Dream World section needs to be edited. Light Metal does NOT halve the damage from weight based moves (contrary to popular belief)
    Source: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3012712&postcount=250

    After you implement the changes you can consider this approved.
  10. Bloo

    Bloo
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    Does Lum Berry really need a slash on the SR set? Lum Berry was used in Gen IV due to the prevalence of Smeargle, Roserade, and Machamp leads, all of which are nonexistent this generation around. I'd just mention Lum Berry in AC; the three slashes on the SR set look messy and by removing Lum Berry (which isn't that important of an item, imo), it'll look slightly better.

    I'd like to see the Mixed set look like this:

    Mixed (open)

    [SET]
    name: Mixed
    move 1: Meteor Mash
    move 2: Hidden Power Fire / Hammer Arm
    move 3: Grass Knot
    move 4: Ice Punch
    nature: Brave
    item: Expert Belt
    evs: 220 HP / 136 Atk / 60 SpA / 92 Spe


    • I slashed Hammer Arm with HP Fire since they're both meant to kill Ferrothorn, and having Hammer Arm as a main option forces you to have a total of 3 slashes in the third slot, making the set look unorganized and messy.
    • Grass Knot and Ice Punch are now main options instead of being slashed with Hammer Arm, mainly because both moves give Metagross important coverage against Dragon-types and Water-types like Quagsire, respectively.
    • Bullet Punch can be mentioned in AC. While it does have priority and merit in picking off weakened threats, I think it's a tad too weak to be a main option. That slot is better off having coverage moves, like seen above.
    That's all I have. I'll approve once these changes are made.
  11. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    Implemented all the suggestions.

    Thanks!

    Waiting for Bloo to approve and a third check before writing this.

    And barry will help me with the analysis from now on
  12. Bloo

    Bloo
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    QC APPROVED (2/3)

    Look at the post SDS made below! (Hones Claw rejection)
  13. Iconic

    Iconic
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    QC Approved 3/3
  14. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    I know this was just approved, but on the mixed set I'd remove the Hammer Arm slash and just mention it in AC... Hitting stuff like Skarmory, Scizor, Forretress, and Ferrothorn (harder) is just too important. I'd also slash Life Orb alongside Expert Belt.
  15. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    This is a notification of official rejection for the Hone Claws set. It doesn't boost fast enough, and Metagross is still far too slow at base 70 to sweep anything with it. It's AC at best, and only because Meteor Miss makes me want to forcibly remove my hair every time I lose a game because of it.
  16. yee

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    Im gonna vouch for the scarf set. I have found that some teams (like my rain team) benefit greatly from having ScarfGross take on revenge killing duties. It can revenge all the genies and Eon twins, as well as base 125s and below (base 127s when that comes out). In addition, Multi Scale Dragonite and Metagross are an amazing pair, any sweeper below 393 speed can be taken out with prediction. Landorus will try to Stone Edge/HP Ice your nite because Multi Scale's bulk will lead them to the impression that you are trying to counter it, and no one will expect your Metagross to outrun and OHKO it with Ice Punch. Any other sweeper, like Terrakion and the genies, will likely fall for this trick, and if they're a clear noob (lol) easy pickings. Keeping SR off the field isn't too hard with offensive pressure.

    I understand that other Metagross sets are usually more appealing. However, the scarf set is a viable choice to keep a lot of the big threats in check, so I hope it at least gets a mention.
  17. giggity69

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    I agree, it does have a few uses, but there are other choice scarf users who do the job better. Maybe just mention 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe Jolly in the choice band's AC and quickly say that gross can run a choice scarf set if need be. Meteor Mash, EQ, Pursuit / Hammer Arm, Ice Punch / trick?
  18. yee

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    For scarf, youll want Meteor Mash, Ice Punch, Pursuit and Earthquake/Hammer Arm. I used Trick but the only reason you would be using Scarfgross is to stop your team from getting swept, so he NEEDS to keep the speed. If you need it to not be a sitting duck against bulky teams Trick can go on, most likely over Ice Punch.
  19. zdrup15

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    Ok, Hone Claws was removed and the thread was edited accordingly. I also don't think Scarf is good enough for a set but I'll mention it in OO.

    Now barry and I will start writing this.
  20. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    Nah we talked it over in QC and agreed that Scarf should be added. Surprise-revenging stuff like Landorus, Garchomp, Thundurus, etc. is really cool.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Meteor Mash
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Ice Punch
    move 4: Trick / Pursuit
    nature: Jolly
    item: Choice Band
    evs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe

    EVs outrun ScarfTar and everything slower. ThunderPunch and Zen Headbutt can go in AC for the fourth slot. Trick is mainly there for crippling Slowbro, Hippowdon, Nattorei, and Skarmory, but Pursuit is good for the Lati twins, Gengar, and weakened Jellicent.

    Also you ignored my changes mentioned several posts up, please fix them when you get a chance...

    EDIT: I'd say make it the fourth set.
  21. zdrup15

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    Edited your changes. I'll add the Scarf set once I know in what position it should be. I'd assume 6th but I'll wait for your answer
  22. Dracolosse

    Dracolosse

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    You're not outspeeding ScarfTar since it's always Jolly... You need Jolly to beat ScarfTar. You don't run enough speed on this set, you're not even guaranteed to outspeed Garchomp which should be a selling point of this set. Run Jolly Instead.
  23. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    Yes, that was a typo, I apologize. The nature should be Jolly.
  24. Bugbot

    Bugbot

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    I know this may be late, but Metagross gets outsped by TimidWobb. This is a terrible thing on the Stealth Rock set. 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 Spe hits 182 Speed, barely outspeeding TimidWobb, who can Encore your Stealth Rock and Tickle you until you either run out of PPs or simply give the opponent a free switch and a free turn to set up.

    EDIT: Completly forgot about Clear Body, so yeah, just leave it to "Encore bait"...
  25. religiousjedi

    religiousjedi #ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Tickle a Metagross? Really?

    And who'd use a Timid Wobuffet?

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