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Metagross (Full Revamp) (QC 3/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Berserker Lord, Jan 22, 2012.

  1. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

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    The current Metagross analysis onsite is quite outdated, having mentions of Excadrill and Thundurus as well as slashes that made sense only months ago.

    List of changes I plan to make:

    -changed the 252 HP / 252 Attack spread on the Choice Band set so it outspeeds 0 Speed specially defensive Heatran.
    -change the EV spread on Agility Metagross to a simple 252/252 spread to outspeed Scarf Terrakion with an Agility and Adamant Gyarados pre-agility. Also, I think the order of slashes on the last moveslot can be changed, but i'm not sure what is the best. Any thoughts are welcome.
    -Slash Zen Headbutt first on Choice Band. It hits all the Water-types, Volcorona, and smashes Conkeldurr.
    -Max Speed on Choice Scarf to outspeed Adamant Dragonite and Gyarados after a Dragon Dance.
    -Changed Mixed Metagross' moveset to what I think is the ideal options, but I'm open to any changes to it, especially to the EV spread.
    -Just in general revamp everything for the current metagame.

    good god, so much writing to do.

    [​IMG]
    Metagross

    [Overview]
    • Clearly the most manly Pokemon there is.
    • Base 135 Attack and 130 Defense makes Metagross an excellent tank.
    • Typing gives Metagross a great set of resistances to play around with.
    • Has the movepool to pull off plenty of roles, including Choice Band, Stealth Rock setter, and Agility sweeper.
    • Metagross is hampered by medicore Speed, and his typing does leave him weak to many common attacking types.

    [SET]
    name: Stealth Rock
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Meteor Mash
    move 3: Pursuit
    move 4: Earthquake / Hammer Arm
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Can easily set up Stealth Rock
    • Meteor Mash is STAB, and hits hard off base 135 Attack
    • Pursuit allows Metagross to catch any Latios, Latias, Celebi, or Gengar trying to switch out.
    • Hammer Arm can hit the majority of things that resist Steel, namely Rotom-W and Ferrothorn
    • Earthquake hits Jirachi, Tentacruel, Heatran, and Fire-types in general with more power then Hammer Arm.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • EVs are put into HP and Attack for bulk and power.
    • 60 Speed EVs can be used to outspeed 0 Speed Heatran, and OHKO with Earthquake, or heavily damage with Hammer Arm
    • Bullet Punch can be used for priority, but the power is quite depressing.
    • Zen Headbutt offers a way for hitting Jellicent, Volcorona, and Fighting-types, but it lacks the utility of Pursuit.
    • Normal Gem + Explosion allows Metagross to tear into an wall as a last-ditch move. Life Orb can also be used to power up Metagross' other moves alongside with Explosion.
    • Occa Berry will allow Metagross to survive strong Fire-types attacks so it can set down Stealth Rock or to lure Heatran so metagross can OHKO with Earthquake.
    • Pursuit can be used with a spread of 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 SpD to help Metagross survive special attacks so he can Pursuit easier.
    • Shuca Berry can be used in conjunction with Ice Punch to survive an Earthquake from Landorus and OHKOing it. Ice Punch also revenges Haxorus and Dragonite locked into Outrage with greater reliability then Meteor Mash
    • Skarmory and Forretress can shrug off Metagross' hits and set up on it.
    • Bulky Water-types can take repeated Hammer Arms and burn with Scald.
    • Volcarona resists Metagross' moveset, and can setup with Quiver Dance.
    • Celebi with Hidden Power Fire can take on the former two threats while Choice Scarf Terrakion can handle Volcarona.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Meteor Mash
    move 2: Bullet Punch
    move 3: Hammer Arm
    move 4: Zen Headbutt / Pursuit / ThunderPunch
    item: Choice Band
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Choice Band boosts Metagross' already excellent Attack to terrifying levels.
    • Meteor Mash dishes out immense amounts of damage, hitting everything but bulky resists hard.
    • Bullet Punch is invaluable priority, and lets Metagross pick off faster threats.
    • Hammer Arm hits Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, and stops Skarmory from stalling Metagross out as the Speed drops mean Skarmory will outspeed Metagross, and be broken by Hammer Arm if it Roosts.
    • Zen Headbutt rams through Water-types and Conkeldurr, and gives Metagross a move to hit Volcarona.
    • Pursuit will force Pokemon like Latios, Latias without Hidden Power Fire, and Alakazam into a checkmate position.
    • ThunderPunch will 2HKO both Slowbro and Skarmory with Stealth Rock damage while also hitting Tentacruel reasonably hard and OHKOing all Gyarados varients with Stealth Rock support.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Speed EVs outspeed Defensive Gyarados.
    • Explosion can allow Metagross to leave a massive dent in many walls.
    • If using Pursuit, a simple 252/252 or more specially bulky EV spread can be used.
    • Ice Punch can OHKO Gliscor, but it has little use outside of that.
    • Trick can be used to mess up walls, but it leaves a large gap in Metagross' coverage, and Metagross already breaks most walls with attacks alone.
    • Hazards are very important because it allows Metagross to spam Meteor Mash with much less risk.
    • Slowbro is the best Metagross counter there is, only being 2HKOed by ThunderPunch, and Regenerator ensures Slowbro will stay healthy.
    • Bulky Steel and Water-types and Heatran can switch into Meteor Mash, and set-up hazards, smack around with Water-type attacks, or just OHKO Heatran with Fire Blast respectively.
    • Magnezone can easily trap Metagross locked in on Meteor Mash, Bullet Punch, or Pursuit, and KO.
    • Hydreigon can handle most of the things that can take on Metagross, and vice-versa.
    • Magnezone is also able to help Metagross by trapping Forretress, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn, while also destroying Water-types with STAB Thunderbolt.

    [SET]
    name: Agility
    move 1: Agility
    move 2: Meteor Mash
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Zen Headbutt / ThunderPunch
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Metagross can easily set up an Agility with his great bulk and excellent set of resistances.
    • Meteor Mash hits hard with Life Orb, and also has a chance of raising Metagross' Attack, making him even harder to handle.
    • Earthquake hits Fire-types and non Levitating/Flying-type Steels.
    • Zen Headbutt smacks around Fighting-types and provides coverage on Water-types.
    • ThunderPunch hits Water-types with the exception of Tentacruel and Rotom-W harder than Zen Headbutt, and allows Metagross to at least deal actual damage to Skarmory.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • EVs allow Metagross to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion and neutral nature Venusaur in the sun after an Agility.
    • Lum Berry can allow Metagross to avoid a crippling burn or paralysis
    • Air Balloon is usable to provide more set-up opportunities, but the loss of power is annoying.
    • Leftovers helps retain Metagross' bulk, but the drop in power is still annoying.
    • Adamant can be used with any of the pervious three items as Adamant will make up for the loss in power from Life Orb slightly.
    • Ice Punch steamrolls Landorus, Gliscor, and Dragonite, but Meteor Mash hits for the same damage as a 2x effective Ice Punch, so it has no use otherwise.
    • Hazard support is invaluable so Metagross is able to overcome physical walls and pull off a successful sweep
    • Ferrothorn and Forretress can take Earthquake all day and set-up hazards and Leech Seed Metagross in Ferrothron's case.
    • Gliscor, Quagsire, Hippowdon, Bronzong, and Jellicent can all trouble Metagross.
    • Slowbro and Skarmory just make Metagross' life miserable if he doesn't have ThunderPunch, and Skarmory can even set-up Spikes for extra annoyance.
    • Celebi is able to handle nearly all the Pokemon that happen to trouble Metagross.
    • Magnezone can trap bulky Steel-types and obliterate Water-types with STAB Thunderbolt.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Meteor Mash
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Ice Punch
    move 4: Trick / Pursuit
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Metagross seems unsuited for using a Choice Scarf, but he reaches a very convenient Speed tier, outspeeding +1 Adamant Dragonite.
    • Meteor Mash is STAB, and still hits hard even without any boosts.
    • Earthquake breaks Fire-types and Ground weak Steel-types.
    • Ice Punch destroys Dragonite, non-Scarf Landorus, and leaves a severe dent in Gliscor.
    • Trick ruins walls, while Pursuit can catch Latios, Starmie, and Gengar trying to switch out.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • EVs outspeed up to Adamant, +1 Gyarados.
    • ThunderPunch hits offensive Politoed and Gyarados hard and 2HKOes Jellicent with some prior damage.
    • Zen Headbutt handles Fighting-types, 2HKOes 0/0 Rotom-W, and 2HKOes Gastrodon with Spikes.
    • Hazards aer important as they help Metagross score 2HKOes on Pokemon such as Jellicent.
    • Bulky Steel-types not weak to Earthquake just ruin Metagross, setting up hazards without a care.
    • Bulky Water-types also make Metagross' life miserable, taking his hits with ease, and smacking Metagross with Water-type attacks.
    • Magnezone can trap Metagross if it isn't locked in on Earthquake and KO.
    • Celebi can handle Water-types with ease, and Heatran can easily roast the Steel-types.

    [SET]
    name: Mixed
    move 1: Meteor Mash
    move 2: Hidden Power Fire
    move 3: Grass Knot
    move 4: Zen Headbutt / Earthquake
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naughty
    evs: 252 Atk / 228 SpA / 24 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Metagross' Special Attack is actually quite decent, so he can effectively use his special movepool to catch the normal switch-ins by surprise.
    • Meteor Mash is still used because the gap between Metagross' Attack and Special Attack makes it much more powerful then Metagross' other options.
    • Hidden Power Fire 2HKOes Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Tangrowth, and OHKOes Forretress and Scizor after Stealth Rock.
    • Grass Knot hits Jellicent, Slowbro, and Hippowdon for a 2HKO
    • Zen Headbutt nails the Water-types that don't take much damage from Grass Knot and Fighting-types.
    • Earthquake is also an option for hitting Heatran and Jirachi.


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • Speed EVs outspeed max Speed Wobbuffet.
    • Expert Belt can help to preserve Metagross' bulk, but the general power loss just isn't worth it.
    • Ice Punch can shatter Gliscor, Dragonite, and Landorus, but has little use otherwise.
    • Bullet Punch is usable for priority, but the loss of coverage is severe.
    • Heatran effortlessly walls Metagross without Earthquake while Rotom-W laughs at any without Zen Headbutt.
    • Tyranitar or Hydreigon can take care of Heatran, while Celebi can handle Rotom-W.

    [Other Options]

    • Rest + Sleep Talk makes Metagross a great physical tank, but it can also make it huge set-up bait.
    • Gravity helps with Meteor Mash's accuracy, and allows Metagross to smack Rotom-W, Skarmory, and Bronzong with Earthquake
    • Hone Claws fixes Meteor Mash's accuracy and raises Metagross' Attack, but Metagross is just too slow to make much use of it.
    • Magnet Rise can troll Ground-types, but Metagross has no room in any of his sets.
    • Reflect + Light Screen is cool, but Metagross has better things to do, and it's done better by other Dual Screeners.
    • Iron Head is viable for perfect accuracy, but the power drop is annoying.
    • Block + Explosion can fun for trapping a wall that Metagross and Explode on.
    • Gyro Ball + Iron Ball can give Metagross a more powerful and accurate Steel-type move in place of Meteor Mash, but slow walls will easily take Gyro Ball, and Metagross loses any sort of Speed advantage it had.

    [Checks and Counters]

    • Slowbro can just sit and take anything Metagross can throw at it sans a Choice Banded Thunder Punch or Grass Knot, and heal off the damage.
    • Skarmory is much the same as Slowbro, but can't take a Hidden Power Fire, and a slower Hammer Arm will mutilate it as it Roosts.
    • Heatran and Rotom-W can both easily switch in on a Meteor Mash, and smack Metagross around with Fire Blast and Hydro Pump, respectively.
    • Steel-types in general make good checks to Metagross if they can avoid Hammer Arm / Earthquake/Hidden Power Fire
    • Bulky Water-types such as Jellicent, Politoed, Gyarados, and Tentacruel can handle Metagross if it lacks Zen Headbutt or Thunder Punch.
    • Metagross' average Speed makes it susceptible to revenge kills, especially on the special side.

    Yeah, I sorta suck at long skeletons. Should still be good enough for QC, and the write up will be much better.
  2. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    I think Pursuit deserves a mention on the SR set. Otherwise good work!
  3. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    I think Shuca Berry deserves a mention in the AC of the support set. If used with Ice Punch it allows you to revene kill Landorus and Dragonite without being unable to switch-in against anything, being afraid not to break your balloon.
  4. Doughboy

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    I still think Earthquake deserves a slash with Hammer Arm on the SR set. Air Ballon is not as prominent as it used to be since Excadrill is gone. In exchange for not being able to hit Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, Heatran on a Balloon (only Balloon user I have seen); you can hit Jellicent, Jirachi, and Tentacruel (those are the big three I can think of).
  5. Nova

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    I think Hammer Arm deserves a mention on the Choise Scarf set to hit Balloon Heatran and Bronzong/Rotom-W for neutral. The speed drop is pretty irrelevant as it is meant for revenge killing/hit and run
  6. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    seconding Pursuit on the Stealth Rock set.

    I used it to great success on my team (which is somewhere in the RMT forum) and it worked really, really well in trapping Latios, Starmie and Gengar to name but a few. In my opinion its more useful than Bullet Punch but I guess thats up to you to decide.
  7. BTzz

    BTzz spams overhand rights
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    Great revamp!

    I would mention OTR / CM Reuniclus as a good partner to the mixed set. That set is so slow that it outspeeds a lot of stuff under Trick Room, even with those speed EVs. Reuniclus also has trouble with Scizor and Tyranitar, two mons that Metagross has no trouble with.

    you could also mention Rockslide on the Choice Scarf set's AC to revenge kill +1 Volcarona.

    Finally, you should mention Trick + Iron Ball to ground Rotom, Bronzong etc in OO just incase Cherubi Agent's set doesn't pass QC.

    Edit: @ Lord of Bays: the standard Chesto Rest set only hits 390 at +1 and let's not forget the common bulky set with only 52 speed EVs.
  8. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    Uh... Scarf Metagross hits 393, tops. Modest +1 Volcarona hits 448.
  9. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    I think you should bump up the speed on the Choice Band set to outrun all 0 Spe 80 Pokemon so it isn't as speed creepy (relative to Heatran). I'll look over the other sets later as well.
  10. Pocket

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    You're wasting A LOT of EVs investing that much in Speed on that Mixed Metagross with a -Spe Nature. If Metagross wants to outrun Wobbuffet, stick with Lonely / Naughty nature. Only 24 Spe EVs are required to outrun Timid Wobbuffet this way. If you want to stick with Brave, 44 Spe EVs is enough to outpace the standard Jellicent for the 2HKO Grass Knot (even with this spread, you lose 4 EVs). What both alternatives accomplish is allow you to invest much more in its SAtk EVs. Metagross receives enough boost in SpA this way that it can remove Life Orb for Expert Belt to attain 2HKOs on the mons of interest, making it much less prone to revenge-killing.

    Whether you chose Brave with slower speed or Lonely / Naughty to be faster than Wobbuffet is up to you, but I suggest diverting those Spe EVs to SpA and provide Metagross Expert Belt.
  11. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    No mention of Trick + Iron Ball?
  12. Doughboy

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    He is waiting for it to be QC accepted, but I doubt it will get rejected though. I used trick+iron ball on my sand team and it worked eceptionally well luring out Skarmory. Rotom-w is a bit trickier to get the iron ball on because of volt switch, but it can be done. Landorus on iron ball metagrosS go together like peanut butter and jelly.
  13. Cherub Agent

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    I'm doing the trick and iron ball set, but it's only got one qc approval so far
  14. Pocket

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    For either of the choice sets, I'd mention how Magnezone quad resists Meteor Mash and can easily trap-and-kill Metagross.
  15. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

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    Yeah, i'll give it an AC mention as a choice over Bullet Punch with a mention of a more specially defensive spread to make the most of it.

    Earthquake will get a slash after Hammer Arm just because being able to 2HKO Ferrothorn and dent Rotom-W is more important to me then hitting Jirachi and Tentacruel (Jellicetn is taking Eathquake with ease).

    Well, considering that Specially Defensive Heatran know runs 160 Speed EVs on the analysis, and the fact that so many Heatran speed creep, the Speed EVs for outspeeding it are indeed not that good. Now, I think that the amount of Speed EVs should be bumped up to 92 in order to outrun Defensive Gyarados, but that EV spread would only be used by Metagross with Zen Headbutt because it is able to 2HKO with Stealth Rock. Pursuit and Trick would likely just get a simple 252/252 spread with a mention of a more specially defnesive spread for Pursuit in AC.

    Thanks Pocket! I'll change the nature to Naughty and the Speed EVs to 24. I don't agree with using Expert Belt over Life Orb just because having the boost to Metagross' physical moves is important for when you need to hit stuff hard. I'm still mentioning it in AC.
  16. PK Gaming

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    Nice.

    On the support set, i'd just flat out remove Balloon. With Excadrill getting banned, I don't see it being useful, since Metagross likes to switch into a ton of Pokemon. I'd remove it (or even replace it with Shuca Berry)

    QC APPROVED (1/3)
  17. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

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    Could've sworn I de-slashed Air Balloon last time I looked at the support set 0.O. I'm going to give Shuca Berry a mention in AC with Ice Punch, as it is a great way of luring Landorus and OHKOing with Ice Punch as Alexwolf mentioned. Thanks for the check.

    Edit: I'm going to have to do some calcs to figure out a good specially defensive spread. I would use the one ginganinja has on his Metagross, but I just fell there is a better one out there. If not,i'll just revert to his spread. Other memebers of QC, don't try to stamp this again until I find a good spread.

    Edit 2: Yeah, i'm just going to use Ging's spread.
  18. Pocket

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    Hey, quality outline, Berserker Lord! Sorry for the long wait, but here's some feedback.

    Stealth Rock
    • I am uncertain if Hammer Arm deserves the primary slash. Hammer Arm is great for hurting Chansey, Rotom-W, Bronzong, and Ferrothorn, and has a chance to hurt Skarmory with an Atk boost, but then Metagross is more easily revenge-killed by Magnezone, and can't really threaten Tentacruel, Jirachi, Heatran, Starmie, Fire-types, etc, not to mention its less-than-perfect accuracy and speed drop. If you have a strong opinion for Hammer Arm > Earthquake, plz express it here, but otherwise, EQ should be the first option, imo.
    • Specify what Hammer Arm hits, namely Rotom-W and Ferrothorn.
    • Also mention how Ice Punch can be used to revenge more reliably Haxorus / Dragonite locked into Outrage
    • Again, not totally sold
    • Specify as the bulky QD set, as the offensive variant wont enjoy losing >42% from Meteor Mash
    • AC mention Occa Berry so that Metagross can guarantee Rocks even against a Fire-type or survive Heatran's Fire assaults to EQ it to oblivion. You could also mention giving enough Speed EVs to outrun min Speed Heatran to EQ it before it could set up Rocks
    • AC mention Explosion for a wall-crippling alternative, ideally holding Normal Gem
    Choice Band
    • AC mention Explosion to nullify non-Steel physical walls for other physical sweepers on CB Meta's team
    • AC mention that CB Meta appreciates greatly Magnezone support
    Agility
    • Alongside Air Balloon & Leftovers, Lum Berry is also worth an AC mention for its ability to cure paralysis and burns. Adamant Nature is not totally a bad Nature, especially Metagross not holding Life Orb, since it comfortably survives EQ from Scarf Terrakion
    • AC mention Gliscor, Hippowdon, Bronzong, Quagsire, and Jellicent as pests to this set as well.
    • You mention hazard supports on the choice sets, but I believe this set wants hazards support the most in order to overwhelm the physical walls and pull off a successful one-time sweep
    • Again AC mention Magnezone support here
    Choice Scarf
    Good, nothing to add!

    Mixed
    • Be more specific here; ie HP Fire 2HKOs Skarmory / Ferrothorn / Tangrowth and OHKOs Forretress / specially-defensive Scizor (after Rocks).
    • Again, more specific here - Grass Knot 2HKOs Jellicent, Slowbro, and Hippowdon.
    • Hydreigon's not the best answer to Heatran; Rotom-W or Tyranitar is a better example
    Other Options
    • Mention Scary Face to make sweepers setting up on Metagross easier to revenge kill
    • Rest + Sleep Talk for a physical tank
    • Gravity to increase MMash's Accuracy hit mons like Skarmory, Bronzong, and Rotom-W with Earthquake
    • Block & Explosion combo
    • Iron Ball & Gyro Ball combo
  19. bugmaniacbob

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    As a note, once this has been QC approved, you will want to add Cherub Agent's Trick + Iron Ball set to the final write-up so it can all be uploaded together, so that it won't be overwritten.
  20. alexwolf

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    Just a question, that already has been asked, but why is Life Orb the main item on the mixed set?
    Expert Belt seems way supeprior, as you don't miss any OHKO or 2HKO with any special move, while perserving Metagross's excellent bulk. Finally Expert Belt is better for bluffing a CB set, which is more popular than the Agility set that uses LO.

    Is the 30% boost to Meteor Mash really worth losing the advantages of Expert Belt? If yes, why?
  21. dcae

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    I think Ice Punch deserves a slash on the Agiligross set, it guarantees excellent coverage with Earthquake while killing all Dragons and bulky Grass types better.
  22. ginganinja

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    still don't want to be picky but is there a reason Pursuit is'nt slashed with Bullet Punch. Other than Hitting Terrakion (iirc you do like 50% to it so thats not too bad), is there anything else you are using it for. It just seems like Pursuit has more utility, especially with pokemon like Celebi, Lati@s, Starmie and Gengar not being uncommon sights.

    Also

    Yes I saw your second EDIT, but you could still try chatting to Stellar. It was his RMT that I got the EV spread from and idk, if you still wanted a better spread you could try checking it out with him.
  23. fade5

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  24. asterat

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    Explosion is still viable on the agility, as well as HP fire to hit skarmory. Does a trick room+gyro ball+hammer arm set have any viability?
  25. Lemonz

    Lemonz

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    88
    Ive tried that on a trick room team before, and found bronzong does that way better, although he uses earthquake not hammer arm.

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