Metagross (Revamp) [GP 2/2]

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Free Gliscor
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QC: TheEnder, TNT, AM
GP: The Dutch Plumberjack, Snobalt

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[OVERVIEW]

Metagross was blessed with a Mega Evolution that possesses many key traits that make it a prominent threat in the OU metagame. Its great ability, Tough Claws, boosts contact moves' power by 33%, which pairs very well with its great movepool. Furthermore, Mega Metagross has a great typing and stellar 80 / 150 / 110 bulk, which provides it with numerous opportunities to switch in. Finally, Mega Metagross's offenses are great; its high base 145 Attack stat coupled with its blazing base 110 Speed makes it a very fast, hard-hitting tank. However, Mega Metagross's base Speed before Mega Evolving is subpar at best, and it is also incredibly susceptible to status effects because the Pokemon that it enjoys switching in on, such as Mega Gardevoir and Clefable, often carry moves such as Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave. Furthermore, Mega Metagross lacks reliable recovery, so it has trouble staying healthy throughout the match, especially against teams that utilize Spikes. Despite these flaws, Mega Metagross is able to capitalize on its strengths very well, which enables it to put pressure onto its foes when played correctly.

[SET]
name: All-Out Attacker
move 1: Meteor Mash
move 2: Zen Headbutt
move 3: Hammer Arm
move 4: Grass Knot / Ice Punch / Bullet Punch / Pursuit
item: Metagrossite
ability: Clear Body
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Meteor Mash hits Pokemon that don't resist it exceptionally hard, while Zen Headbutt deals good damage to Pokemon that do resist Meteor Mash, such as Rotom-W. Hammer Arm hits Steel-types such as Ferrothorn and Heatran for super effective damage and receives a Tough Claws boost, but Earthquake can be used instead to hit Heatran harder and, notably, to hit Mega Charizard X, Victini, Jirachi, and opposing Mega Metagross super effectively. The last slot rounds off Mega Metagross's coverage. Grass Knot enables Mega Metagross to break past Hippowdon, Quagsire, and Slowbro. Ice Punch is Metagross's only way to reliably KO defensive Garchomp, and it has the notable advantage of also hitting Landorus-T and Gliscor for major damage. Thunder Punch is an option to muscle past Slowking, an otherwise full counter to Mega Metagross, while also hitting Skarmory and Talonflame super effectively. Bullet Punch is great for revenge killing faster Pokemon, but the loss of a coverage move is often not worth it.

Finally, Pursuit is a great option for Mega Metagross to support its team. It enables Mega Metagross to remove problematic Pokemon for its common partners to facilitate a sweep later on in the game. For example, Mega Metagross is often paired with Keldeo, and it is able to Pursuit trap common answers to Keldeo such as Celebi, Latios, and Latias, as it naturally checks them. Furthermore, Pursuit is great for getting chip damage on forced switches, such as Mega Gardevoir and Choice Specs Raikou locked into Hidden Power Ice. Should Pursuit be run, be wary of the loss of coverage, however.

Set Details
========
Maximum Attack and Speed investmen in tandem with a Jolly nature capitalizes on Metagross's offensive capabilities. Alternatively, an Adamant nature can be used for more power, but the inability to outspeed metagame staples such as Keldeo and positive-natured Mega Charizard Y makes it an inferior option most of the time. A Naive nature is also an option if Grass Knot is used, but the loss of special bulk can be troublesome during matches, and the power increase is isn't always necessary.

Usage Tips
========
Mega Metagross is a great check to many prominent Fairy-types in the tier such as Clefable, Mega Gardevoir, and Azumarill, although each one has a way of crippling Mega Metagross should it be played recklessly. Mega Metagross's primary role is to punch holes into opposing teams, so bringing it in against defensive Pokemon that are unable to touch it is advisable. Similarly, switching Mega Metagross into resisted hits is a great way to get it into play.

Team Options
========
Pokemon that are able to defeat Mega Metagross's most prominent checks, such as Skarmory, Jirachi, and Mega Scizor, are heavily appreciated. Talonflame, Keldeo, Choice Specs Magnezone, and Heatran are good options for this role. Manaphy and Choice Band Azumarill are great wallbreakers that are able to break through Mega Metagross's checks and thus make for good teammates. On sets lacking Grass Knot, good partners include Will-O-Wisp Talonflame, Swords Dance Landorus-T, and Swords Dance Terrakion because they wear down Hippowdon, Garchomp, and defensive Landorus-T. Mega Metagross appreciates entry hazards to ensure certain KOs that it would otherwise be unable to achieve, so Stealth Rock setters such as Garchomp and Heatran make for good partners. Latias is an excellent teammate for Mega Metagross because she can provide Mega Metagross with a second life with Healing Wish.

[SET]
name: Rock Polish
move 1: Rock Polish
move 2: Meteor Mash
move 3: Zen Headbutt
move 4: Ice Punch / Hammer Arm / Earthquake
item: Metagrossite
ability: Clear Body
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Rock Polish enables Mega Metagross to outspeed the entire metagame after a boost. Meteor Mash is Metagross's obligatory Steel-type STAB move and has a decent chance to raise its Attack by one stage. Should accuracy pose a concern, Iron Head is a viable alternative. Zen Headbutt is needed to power through Rotom-W and other Pokemon that resist Steel , and it sports a decent flinch chance that pairs well with Mega Metagross's high Speed. Ice Punch is needed to be able to break through defensive Garchomp, Choice Scarf Landorus-T, and Gliscor, while Hammer Arm is useful for breaking through Steel-types such as Ferrothorn and Heatran. Alternatively, Earthquake nets super effective hits on Jirachi, Victini, and Mega Charizard X, but it is otherwise inferior to Hammer Arm, despite the latter move's Speed drop.

Set Details
========
Maximum Speed and Attack investment enables Mega Metagross to hit as hard as possible while still hitting the very important base 110 Speed benchmark. Should speed not be as critical, an alternative EV spread of 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe with an Adamant nature allows Mega Metagross to outspeed neutral-natured base 100 Speed Pokemon before a Rock Polish boost and everything relevant in the metagame after a boost. Clear Body aids in the process of setting up against Intimidate users.

Usage Tips
========
Early-game, use Mega Metagross to break down walls or revenge kill slower Pokemon. Then, when it is time to go for a sweep late-game and Mega Metagross's checks and counters have been sufficiently weakened, bring Mega Metagross in on Fairy-types that it forces out to gain a free turn to set up. However, be wary of Thunder Wave Clefable and Will-O-Wisp Gardevoir. Holding off on Mega Evolving allows Metagross to bypass Intimidate users that try to lower its Attack stat. Setting up before Mega Evolving isn't too difficult, as Metagross still possesses a decent Speed tier after a boost and is still quite bulky.

Team Options
========
Pokemon that are able to defeat Mega Metagross's most prominent checks, such as Skarmory, Jirachi, and Mega Scizor, are heavily appreciated. Talonflame, Keldeo, Choice Specs Magnezone, and Heatran are good options for this role. Manaphy and Choice Band Azumarill are great wallbreakers that are able to break through Mega Metagross's checks and thus make for good teammates. Mega Metagross appreciates entry hazards to ensure certain KOs that it would otherwise be unable to achieve, so Stealth Rock setters such as Garchomp and Heatran make for good partners. Latias is an excellent teammate for Mega Metagross because she can use Healing Wish to provide Mega Metagross with a second life.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
=============
Assault Vest is a decent option on Metagross that allows it to act as a good Fairy check and Pursuit trapper. The combination of Substitute and Power-Up Punch lets Mega Metagross use weaker defensive Pokemon as setup bait, as they are usually unable to break Mega Metagross's Substitute. Substitute on the All-Out Attacker set gives Mega Metagross a buffer against status effects and makes it harder to revenge kill, but it must forgo a valuable coverage move to fit it onto its set. Hidden Power Fire enables Metagross to bypass an otherwise solid counter in Mega Scizor, but it has no use outside of that and is very weak. For example, it is unable to 2HKO standard Ferrothorn or specially defensive Skarmory.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Bulky Ground-types**: Hippowdon, Garchomp, Quagsire, Landorus-T, and Gliscor are able to take Mega Metagross's STAB moves. However, Hippowdon and Quagsire lose to Grass Knot, while Gliscor, Garchomp, and Landorus-T lose to Ice Punch.

**Dark-types**: Choice Scarf Tyranitar is capable of outspeeding Mega Metagross and, with prior damage, is capable of knocking it out with a super effective attack. Life Orb Bisharp is capable of OHKOing Mega Metagross with Sucker Punch after minimal prior damage. Mandibuzz is able to take on any attacks that Mega Metagross throws at it and defeat it with Foul Play, but Stealth Rock cannot be on the field.

**Bulky Psychic-types**: Physically defensive Mew, Slowbro, Slowking, and Cresselia are able to wall most variants of Mega Metagross that lack Substitute. Mew is able to cripple Mega Metagross with a Will-O-Wisp, while Slowbro and Slowking can whittle away at it with Scald and eventually burn it. However, Slowbro must be wary of Grass Knot, while Slowking does not enjoy facing Mega Metagross that carry Thunder Punch. Cresselia is also able to wall Mega Metagross, as despite it not having a way of doing any meaningful damage to it, Cresselia is capable of crippling it with a Thunder Wave.

**Steel-types**: Skarmory, Mega Scizor, and defensive Jirachi can all take on Mega Metagross quite easily, as they are able to eat up Hammer Arms and whittle Mega Metagross down with their moves. While Jirachi must be wary of Earthquake, it is able to take on variants that lack it and cripple Mega Metagross with a Thunder Wave.

**Bulky Grass-types**: Tangrowth and physically defensive Celebi are able to take any hit Mega Metagross throws at them, including Ice Punch, and either cripple it with Sleep Powder or Thunder Wave or simply wear it down throughout the match. They must watch out for Attack boosts from Meteor Mash, however.

**Status Effects**: Status effects such as burn and paralysis hamper Mega Metagross's effectiveness. Pokemon with access to moves that inflict these status effects make for decent answers to Mega Metagross, especially if it is normally able to switch into them. Good examples of this are Will-O-Wisp Gardevoir and Thunder Wave Clefable.

**Faster Pokemon**: Choice Scarf Tyranitar, Overheat Mega Manectric, Sand Rush Excadrill, Choice Scarf Landorus-T, Choice Specs Raikou, Life Orb Starmie, and Life Orb Tornadus-T carrying Heat Wave are able to outspeed and either knock out or severely cripple Mega Metagross with super effective or hard-hitting moves.
 
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Free Gliscor
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made pursuit its own set cuz it always plays differently than the normal AoA, and pursuit is honestly more than moves worthy when it does such a great job of removing threats for teammates. i also dont think it should be slashed alongside moves that are meant to wallbreak, as pursuit is plays much differently than these other moves
 
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I think Jolly should at least get a mention on the RP set, yeah I know it's cool to have extra power yadda yadda but I doubt it'll make a significant difference way more often than not and part of what makes Gross so effective as both an attacker, revenge killer and check to shit is how fast it is - you aren't always going to get a RP in, don't give up that killer speed stat for some arbitrary power. It should play like a regular attacking set that just happens to have the option of boosting its speed if a sweeping opportunity arises.

If I lost because my opponent's last four mons were Keldeo / Landorus / HP Fire Latios / Charizard-Y and my Metagross was slower than them I'd fucking kill myself.
 

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Free Gliscor
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Iirc I had that in set details last time; I'll put it there again this time with more emphasis unless QC wants that to be the main spread (which I don't necessarily agree with cuz adamant gross hits hard af).
 

DarkNostalgia

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On the AoA set, shouldn't Naive be slashed first? Jolly nature misses out on the 2HKO on Slowbro with Grass Knot, while Naive does not; using Jolly just seems counter-productive especially when Slowbro is one of the main reasons Grass Knot is used.
 
0- SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

After SR and some prior damages, Metagross has a high chance to 2HKO Slowbro.
 
0- SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Slowbro: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

After SR and some prior damages, Metagross has a high chance to 2HKO Slowbro.
Some forms of Slowbro actually run more Special Defense to avoid the 2HKO from Grass Knot neutrally, but that's only in some cases. I'd still slash Jolly before Naive though.
 

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Free Gliscor
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If Slowbro runs SpDef to avoid a 2HKO from Grass Knot then running a Naive Nature wont do much. Its also worth mentioning that gross needs its SpDef intact to be able to reliably switch into mons such as Latios, Clefable, etc.

0- SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 188 SpD Slowbro: 138-164 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 188 SpD Slowbro: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

QC can weigh in on this but I really dont like Naive on Gross. Id put it in set details at best.
 

AM

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If Slowbro runs SpDef to avoid a 2HKO from Grass Knot then running a Naive Nature wont do much. Its also worth mentioning that gross needs its SpDef intact to be able to reliably switch into mons such as Latios, Clefable, etc.

0- SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 188 SpD Slowbro: 138-164 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 188 SpD Slowbro: 156-184 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

QC can weigh in on this but I really dont like Naive on Gross. Id put it in set details at best.
Set details
 

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Free Gliscor
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I'll have more time to work on it after this weekend, sorry. Should be done by the end of next week
 
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Free Gliscor
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k this should be qc ready. usage tips is kinda barebones but im not entirely sure if i should even fluff it up with how straightforward gross usually plays.
 

TheEnder

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the majority of this is looking great, good job
  • mention pokemon that beat mega scizor, skarmory, and jirachi in team options on all of the sets. these are some of the more commonly used answers to metagross, and having a way to pressure them heavily benefits the metagross user. magnezone (specs versions beat jirachi) is perhaps the best pokemon at this job, but other good examples include heatran, specs keldeo, and will-o-wisp talonflame.
  • on the sets without grass knot, mention pokemon that are capable of wearing down some of metagross's counters. will-o-wisp talonflame, swords dance landorus-t, and swords dance terrakion wear down hippowdon, garchomp, and defensive landorus-t. hidden power electric keldeo and energy ball manaphy lure in slowbro / slowking, paving the way for metagross to sweep.
  • mention is usage tips that you have to be vary of thunder wave clefable, thunder wave latias, and the likes, as metagross loses a lot of its wallbreaking capabilities once its paralyzed.
  • use metagross to revenge kill slower things
  • i think i understand what you mean by this (metagross has a hard time switching in and it is best used to wallbreak when given a free switchin), but i think you can rephrase it to make it easier to understand. metagross is rarely used as a dedicated revenge killer, is what i'm trying to say. you can also mention in team options that slow pivots (rotom-w and landorus-t, for example) make for good teammates.
  • remove the **physically bulky pokemon** section from c&c. all the exmaples you give in it are mentioned in the above sections. yes, physically bulky pokemon do check metagross, but having one section for each of the pokes, then a common section is redundant.
  • mention physically defensive celebi (preferrably with thunder wave) and sleep powder tangrowth in c&c. you can label the section **bulky grass-types**
QC 1/3
 

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Free Gliscor
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think i got all that.

also, should a 'faster mons' section be added in c&cs? I ask cuz sr excadrill, scarf ttar, raikou, lo starmie, mega mane, etc can give metagross hell, especially when gross is facing opposing offensive teams
 

AM

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think i got all that.

also, should a 'faster mons' section be added in c&cs? I ask cuz sr excadrill, scarf ttar, raikou, lo starmie, mega mane, etc can give metagross hell, especially when gross is facing opposing offensive teams
Revenge Killers is what I would call this with some details of the who and what. Sounds like a good idea.
 
"hidden power electric keldeo and energy ball manaphy lure in slowbro / slowking, paving the way for metagross to sweep more effectively."

Pursuit Mega Metagross is not meant to be a sweeper, but a trapper. Just state that the stated variants of Keldeo and Manaphy weaken Mega Gross' defensive checks.
 

Reymedy

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Mention the possibility of a Zen/MM/HPFire/GK set as besides the fact that you give up on the 110 Speed + Heatran, you can hit Scizors and still kill Ferrothorn (in a smoother way coz no Iron Barbs and no Speed drop, less damage tho).

e : since ZorM is probably the best "counter", it's interesting to explain that there is a viable option to cover it.
 

p2

Banned deucer.
Mention the possibility of a Zen/MM/HPFire/GK set as besides the fact that you give up on the 110 Speed + Heatran, you can hit Scizors and still kill Ferrothorn (in a smoother way coz no Iron Barbs and no Speed drop, less damage tho).

e : since ZorM is probably the best "counter", it's interesting to explain that there is a viable option to cover it.
I personally think HP Fire is just an awful move for MGross, it barely handles Ferrothorn (I think it loses to Leech + Protect if it comes in on a move that isn't HP Fire) or it just risks the TWave and the only other mon you're hitting is Scizor, which is only a guaranteed 2HKO after SR. It's forced out, but all that means is that Scizor can't set up on MGross. I wouldn't call HP Fire a viable option at all because it's just so weak and leaves MGross extremely weak to Gengar and other base 110s that can nail MGross with an SE move. It's a niche option, but it comes with too many drawbacks to be viable, it should be OO at best.

0 SpA Mega Metagross Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 136-164 (38.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Mega Metagross Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 200 SpD Mega Scizor: 152-180 (44.3 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 

Reymedy

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If you dont call a move that beats the best counter to Meta a viable option then I dont know.
I'm not very used to all your gibberish.

MGross extremely weak to Gengar and other base 110s that can nail MGross with an SE move.
Yea lol.
 

p2

Banned deucer.
If you dont call a move that beats the best counter to Meta a viable option then I dont know.
I'm not very used to all your gibberish.


Yea lol.
Going by your logic, Outrage is viable on Landorus because it beats Mega Latias, its best counter.

HP Fire has way too many drawbacks to be viable, sure it beats Scizor but you lose out on the 110 speed tier, you're guaranteed to get outsped by Gengar, Diancie and Latis and they can all hurt MegaGross with Shadow Ball / Earth Power / HP Fire or EQ. And because you're only beating Scizor and certain Ferrothorn variants, you're losing out on beating so much. It autoloses to Heatran, Skarmory, Celebi, Excadrill, PDef Gliscor, Rachi, BulkyChomp, LandoT, Reflect Type Starmie and Magnezone.
 

Reymedy

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What is actually your point ? I did explain it was niche for christ sake and you're only repeating what I already said or what is obvious as shit for everybody who played the tier more than 3 days.

And no, it's not comparable lol, Outrage locks you, confuses you, forces you to run a physical spread, Latias could also just Ice Beam your ass anyway, why the heck are you trying so hard man.

you're losing out on beating so much. It autoloses to Heatran, Skarmory, Celebi, Excadrill, PDef Gliscor, Rachi, BulkyChomp, LandoT, Reflect Type Starmie and Magnezone.
because Hammer Arm surely does beat Celebi Gliscor Jirachi Chomp LandorusT Starmie Reflect Type
yea
right, nice point
 

p2

Banned deucer.
What is actually your point ? I did explain it was niche for christ sake and you're only repeating what I already said or what is obvious as shit for everybody who played the tier more than 3 days.

And no, it's not comparable lol, Outrage locks you, confuses you, forces you to run a physical spread, Latias could also just Ice Beam your ass anyway, why the heck are you trying so hard man.



because Hammer Arm surely does beat Celebi Gliscor Jirachi Chomp LandorusT Starmie Reflect Type
yea
right, nice point
Having HP Fire makes it so much easier to wall, I'm not trying to say nothing walls it. If you use Ice Punch or Hammer Arm over HP Fire, it's significantly harder to wall and you don't lose 110 speed ties. If you run either IP or HA, you pretty much cut that list of mons that can wall MGross in half at the cost of getting walled by Mega Scizor and Ferro with Protect.

But whatever, there's no point in dragging this out anymore because Clones already said it's not going anywhere else than OO.

okay, my posts might have been shit, but there's really no reason to act like such an asshole over it.
 
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Reymedy

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No, indeed, there is no point dragging this out so why you're posting lmfao. And your post had no point in the first place since I never asked for more than a freaking mention instead of HA.

But I'm very glad we had this discussion, I've learned various things (HP Fire is 30 IVs, Ice Punch is apparently super effective against dragon, grass, and ground types).
I wonder why I dont try to have more enriching dicussions in here among people trying to increase their postcount.
 

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