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Meteor Massacre (Peaked #1)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Hawkstar, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a SPL Winner

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    Ubers is a tier I know well from BW1, where I tried to build the ultimate offensive team. That did well enough, but Ubers became stale to me because unlike all the other metagames, it never changes. Sure, new sets and teams are built that shift the metagame slightly, but that's nothing like UU or RU, which constantly have Pokemon coming and going. However, BW2 was announced, and with it, a new toy for me to play with: Kyurem-W. Being such an offense-loving guy, my eyes lit up when this thing's stat spread was figured out. 170 base Special Attack? That's astounding! I have gotta try sticking Specs on this thing. That's how this team began. Now that I've peaked #1 and got booted Round 2 from the Ubers Open, I feel like it's time to hang up this team for a little bit.

    With that, here it is, team Meteor Massacre:

    At a Glance


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Proof (open)
    [​IMG]


    In-Depth Analysis​


    [​IMG]
    Kyurem-White @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Turboblaze
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fusion Flare
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast​


    After doing some calcs, I was shocked at how many Pokemon it could just outright obliterate, from ScarfOgre to Forretress, this thing was a total boss. When I finally got the chance to build this team, in almost every battle I had, my opponents would switch in their Steel-type or their bulky Arceus or whatever, and have it promptly removed from the field of play. Draco Meteor is the main move for obvious reason, in that it vaporizes whatever it touches. Forretress, my favorite example, is 2HKOed by Draco Meteor all the time, while 252 HP Arceus has about a 30% chance of being OHKOed, with no hazards. Ice Beam plays second fiddle but is still awesome with all the Dragons running around. It also is a safe move to use against Ferro in the rain. Focus Blast cuts through Arceus-Steel, Heatran, and even can 2HKO Jirachi, all of which take less than 50% from Draco Meteor, which even for a Steel-type is impressive. Fusion Flare rounds out coverage by providing a reliable way to OHKO Ferrothorn and Forretress, the latter especially since TurboBlaze ignores Sturdy. Frankly though, I could forget every move except Draco Meteor and not notice my mistake until 10 battles later. Kyurem-W is, I think, the scariest Pokemon in the whole game right now.

    [​IMG]
    Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 240 HP / 252 SDef / 16 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Stealth Rock
    - Recover
    - Iron Head​


    As I was licking my chops at the chance to utilize this utter terror, the thought hit me: "Well, if nothing at all can wall it, what hope do I have at stopping it when my opponents inevitably use it on every team?" The answer was this set. The Specially Defensive EV spread makes this thing super bulky, pulling off crazy stuff such as avoiding the 2HKO from Scarf Palkia's Hydro Pump in the rain and walling CM Latias to hell and back. Taking a paltry 35% from Draco Meteor from my Kyurem-W set, Arceus-Steel is the perfect wall for such a fearsome creature (unless it uses Focus Blast which deals 75%. Seriously, if this set can't fully stop Kyurem-W, nothing can) Will-O-Wisp patches up my smaller but still formidable Defense stat, while also providing a way to do damage to Dialga and Palkia passively while spamming Recover. Recover is obvious, as what use is this thing with no Leftovers recovery and no Recover? I like Iron Head over Judgment, since otherwise, while I wall CM Latias, I can't do anything to it with Judgment.

    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Refresh

    Latias is here to replace Palkia to deal with pretty much every Calm Minder ever besides Ghost Arceus. I've wanted to try out Latias for a while so when a bunch of people started telling me to try it out, I couldn't believe I didn't think of it before.

    Out of the sets I've tried, I like this one the best. Calm Mind makes Latias ridiculously bulky on the special side, and even before that, it is still way more bulky than you think. Dragon Pulse is the most reliable choice, and after 6 Calm Minds, it literally 2HKOes everything in the game except for my Arceus-Steel set. Recover is necessary to keep Latias healthy, since Soul Dew prevents me from using Leftovers. While I originally tried out Psyshock to beat other CM users, I quickly realized that the three T's were keeping Latias down: Thunder, Thunder Wave, and Toxic. To prevent those from ending my sweep, I gave her Refresh, and now I fare a lot better against stuff like Ferrothorn and Tentacruel. The EV spread aims to make Latias as bulky and fast as possible. Latias gets more than enough power from Calm Mind, and I'd rather be able to take physical attacks a little better.

    Previous Team Member: Palkia (open)
    [​IMG]
    Palkia @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hydro Pump
    - Fire Blast
    - Spacial Rend​


    I was still scared of Kyurem, so I decided to add a revenge killer that can force it out. Palkia's Speed stat is ideal for this, just in case I mispredict and the opponent is actually using Scarf Kyurem-W instead of Specs. It also outpaces the newly introduced Genesect, which is a huge plus. Straight away, you'll notice the lack of Thunder. t first, this was a mistake, and it took a good 10 ladder matches or so before I noticed my mistake. Even so, I think I like this set better, and so I kept it, but I'm all for trying out Thunder. Spacial Rend is an awesome obligatory STAB move, along with Hydro Pump. Fire Blast is for putting the hurt on Ferrothorn in last 'mon situations, as well as for use against sun teams in general. Draco Meteor allows me to squeeze out some extra power when I really need it, such as against a Kyogre with half health (something I should be using Thunder for...) as well as against weakened Arceus formes.


    [​IMG]
    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder
    - Thunder Wave​


    I don't think that any Ubers team this gen is complete without some kind of weather control. While I originally had Groudon here for weather control, Ho-Oh was destroying me, so I swapped in Kyogre and never looked back. This Kyogre set is very dangerous, especially since it can take a Specs Modest Draco Meteor from Kyurem-W, further reducing my fears that this thing is going to sweep me outright. Hydro Pump is a strong STAB move, picked over Surf because I need the higher power provided by Hydro Pump. Ice Beam hits Dragons such as Rayquaza and Giratina for super effective damage, and since a lot of them are going to be obstacles to Kyurem-W due to their Speed, I like to have enemy Dragons removed as fast as possible. Thunder is for enemy Kyogre and for when I want to try and paralyze something like the Deoxys formes while breaking their Sashes at the same time. Thunder Wave is the crux of the set, allowing me to make enemy Palkia, Mewtwo, Terrakion, Kyurem-W, or any other fast sweeper, a complete liability. It also allows me to create "fail-safe situtions" where against opponents such as Mewtwo that Hydro Pump can miss against, I usually T-Wave first and then use Hydro Pump, so that just in case I miss, I have a chance of them being paralyzed, and failing that, another teammate can take them out easily.

    [​IMG]
    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Sacred Sword
    - Sleep Talk


    Terrakion is the other scarfer on the team. Double scarf is a strategy I've used in my last two successful Ubers teams, since with two Scarf users, one can take over for the other is one is fainted. Terrakion provides a physical Scarfer, as well as my check to Extreme Killer Arceus and, you guessed it, Kyurem-W. Close Combat is awesome, dealing out OHKOes to offensive Dialga, Arceus after Stealth Rock, as well as dealing upwards of 65% to Kyogre and Palkia. Stone Edge allows me to hit Ghosts, as well as Rayquaza and Ho-Oh, even if they are at +1 Speed. Sacred Sword is a filler move, but works as a last ditch move against Bulk Up Dialga, or if I need to sweep without the defensive drops Close Combat brings. Sleep Talk gives me an excellent switch-in to Darkrai, who otherwise can sleep anything it wants with impunity. I was skeptical about Terrakion's place on the team at first, but now I'm glad I decided to try it out.

    [​IMG]
    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Toxic
    - Taunt
    - Earthquake
    - Substitute​


    Rounding out the team, we have one of the most annoying sets ever, even by Ubers standards. SubToxic Gliscor walls a lot of physical threats in this metagame, including Groudon, Scizor, and Terrakion. It also sends sand teams packing. With this set in combination with Kyogre, I have not lost to a single sand team since I built the team. Substitute protects me from the massively powerful special attacks being flung around the tier, as well as easing prediction against switch-ins. While I was originally against Taunt, I found out that it wasn't that bad of an option. Unfortunately, there are still a ton of times when I say to myself, "Damn, Protect would be so useful right now." Four moveslot syndrome really stinks, doesn't it? Toxic provides residual damage so that I am not just sitting there prolonging the game for 32 turns. It is also my only way of hitting Flying-types and Levitators for any kind of damage. Earthquake is the obvious Stab move here, dealing decent enough damage, but unfortunately not enough to 2HKO Dialga most of the time.

    Major Threats


    [​IMG]
    CM Ghost Arceus​


    Now that Palkia is on the team, pretty much every Calm Mind user in the tier is covered. However, there is one that can screw me up, and that is CM Ghost Arceus. It can hit Latias super effectively, and unlike other CM Arceus formes such as Dark, nothing on my team can hit it super effectively. As such, I need a few CMs up beforehand to have a chance against this guy.

    [​IMG]
    Focus Sash Deoxys-A

    What do you get when you combine raw power, super Speed, excellent move coverage, and the inability to die in one hit? You get this pain in the ass right here. When I see my opponent with this, I lead off with Arceus-Steel to try and get off my Rocks as quickly as possible. If he leads with Deoxys-A, I just Recover off the Superpowers until it switches out, then I set up Rocks. If my opponent is very conservative with Deoxys-A though, then I'm in for some pain.

    Conclusion


    I've had a lot of fun with this team! When I build a team, I usually start off by basing the team around a stupidly powerful Specs/Band user, and go from there. This team is the epitome of that kind of teambuilding, and is one of my best yet. I'd like to thank you all for taking the time to read this, and now I ask you to rate, hate, and steal!

    Importable (open)
    Pine-Sol (Kyurem-White) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Turboblaze
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fusion Flare
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast

    Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Stealth Rock
    - Recover
    - Iron Head

    Palkia @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hydro Pump
    - Fire Blast
    - Spacial Rend

    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunder
    - Thunder Wave

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Sacred Sword
    - X-Scissor

    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Toxic
    - Protect
    - Earthquake
    - Substitute
  2. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Very nice team Hawkstar! T-Wave Kyogre is a pro set, especially when paired with the stronger mon in Ubers, Kyurem-W.

    A little suggestion you could try out is Sleep Talk over X-Scissor on Terrakion, so that you won't have to sack a poke everytime Darkrai gets in on something slower. X-Scissor is pretty useless anyway as you said.

    Also i don't really think you need 2 Scarfers (almost no team needs 2 scarfers, except from choiced teams). So try out this Palkia set:

    Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
    252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    - Hydro Pump
    - Fire Blast
    - Spacial Rend
    - Dragon Tail

    As i said 2 scarfers are redundant, and this seems to work very well in your team. You still have something to outspeed and ohko non Scarf Kyurem-W (Scarf Kyurem-W is countered by your Arceus), but Palkia does more. It hits like a truck in rain with Hydro Pump, while hitting anything that resists it with its coverage moves. You can easily bluff a choice item with this set, and the best think is that Ferrothorn is 2hkoed from rain Hydro Pump and a Fire Blast, so if you play your cards right, your opponent will have one less check to your Kyurem-W. Lustrous Orb is the best item to power up your 2 main moves, while also bluffing a choice item. Finally D-Tail allows you to phaze any annoying mono Rest-Talk Kyogre, and chose a better time to fight it.

    EDIT: Oh and something else i noticed. Hazards seem very problematic for this team as you don't have Rapid Spin and the most popular hazard setters can find many set-up oportunities. For example lead Deoxys-S will always get 2 layers of hazards against you, unless you decide to lead with Terrakion, which generally is not the best option. Also Ferrothorn can set-up quite easily against Kyogre, Arceus, Gliscor, Palkia locked into anything except from Fire Blast (another reason why you should use non choiced Palkia) and after Kyurem-W kills something with Draco Meteor. Finally Skarmory and Forretress can both set-up very easily against Arceus and Gliscor. And in the case that Terrakion gets locked into a Rock move. Point being, you are very hazards weak, but i don't know how to fix this without changing the team too much.
  3. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Hey Hawkstar, great RMT! I really like the name too :)

    There is a fairly quick fix to your RestTalk Kyogre problem. Since you have two Choice Scarf users, which is honestly iffy in Ubers, you can simply swap one of them to solve your problem. I'm obviously looking at Palkia, and I'm obviously suggesting Soul Dew Latias.
    Latias (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Latias @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 52 HP / 204 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Roost
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Thunder / Psyshock


    SOUL DEW BABY. Thanks to it it's the best counter to Kyogre in the entire game. If you want something more offensive, go with Latios, but it won't be able to tank it as well as Latias. Calm Mind boosts SpD and SpA, Roost heals, Dragon Pulse beast STAB. Since this is an offensive team, either Psyshock or Thunder work; Thunder seems the prior option as it hits Kyogre and Ho-Oh for much more damage, but Psyshock would make Chansey and Blissey easier, as well as a boosted Kyogre which can be a pain.

    A more specially defensive spread can be used to tank Kyogre and Deoxys-A better, but these are definitely the optiomal EVs.

    Deoxys-A can be played around with ease; just stall it with Steel Arceus, and then get your rocks up to break its Sash. Moreover, Deoxys-A can only 2HKO 52 HP Latias (99.61% to be exact) so you can hit it back with Dragon Pulse, or go for the paralysis with Thunder. Kyogre can tank its Thunder or Psycho Boost and paralyze it with Thunder Wave. If It's Life Orbed, it's a different story; Thunder might KO Kyogre, but Psycho Boost isn't. 252 HP / 56 SpD on Kyogre would guarantee that you survive, but that's really optional. Latias is always 2HKOed by Ice Beam, and stalling it with Steel Arceus might be tougher, but still possible.

    I don't want to change the team too much to not mess its synergy, but remember that you always have Terrakion to revenge it.

    Great team mate, good luck!
  4. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Latias seems very good, but then Ferrothorn becomes an even greater bitch to deal with, as it essentialy sets-up on your whole team.
  5. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Terrakion and Kyurem-W nail it, though they cannot switch-in, and Gliscor can set up on it. Just to make sure it won't spam hazards on you, you should probably test Taunt over Protect on Gliscor, just to keep hazards off.
  6. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    I'm liking Latias so far. It also helps against Omastar (if I don't let it get a Shell Smash that is) who is also giving me problems. While I enjoyed Palkia's Speed a lot, taking 35% from Specs Kyogre's Water Spout is actually really nice.

    Gliscor's set is non-negotiable. In my opinion, there is no room for anything else besides those 4 moves on its set. That is Gliscor's singular, bona-fide Ubers set, and while being able to prevent hazards would be awesome, reducing its effectiveness versus the other 99% of the Ubers metagame might as well make Gliscor an empty slot in terms of usefulness.
  7. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    As i said again, how do you fare against Ferrothorn? You don't have it as a threat, and it seems to be able to set-up and wall more than half of your team, especially now that you have Latias. Ferrothorn + RestTalk Kyogre is super annoying for your team to face, as Ferrothorn deals with Kyogre and Latias, while Kyogre deals with Gliscor, Terrakion and Arceus-Steel. The only threat that has a chance to break through that core is your Specs Kyurem-W, which however won't have many shots at doing so, as entry hazards that Ferrothorn will have set-up against half of your team are going to eat him up very quickly.
  8. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    Ferrothorn isn't that crippling. Ice Beam is an obvious 2HKO, and Focus Blast OHKOes. Choiced Kyogre is 3HKOed by Ice Beam, and takes the same amount of damage from Focus Blast as it does from Terrakion's Close Combat. Terrakion can sacrifice itself if need be to put it in KO range of pretty much every other attack on my team. Gliscor can set up on Ferrothorn, and a Gliscor behind a Sub can potentially be just as dangerous as the Spikes it sets up. As a last ditch effort, just plain hammering it with stuff or Will-O-Wisping it goes a long way to KOing it. It may not look like it, but I not completely shut down by FerrOgre. Any team that is won't get anywhere close to being successful due to its ubiquity!
  9. TheArchangle

    TheArchangle

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    ^ I find Ferrothorn to be very crippling, I decided to use your team today to test it out and it walked through everything with ease except Ferrothorn and Arceus-Rock, once Ferrothorn got up a leach seed on Kyurem I felt helpless tbh and taking the damage from SR on the switch in didn't help. CM Arceus Rock dealt hefty damage also as a late game sweeper to the team also once Palkia and Terrakion got removed(as I learned that scarfed Terrakion somehow can't OHKO an offensive mewtwo with X-Scissor). I'll make edits to this or another post with suggestions later on.
  10. Splendiferous

    Splendiferous

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    I find taunt to be substantially more useful than protect on Gliscor as it stops hazards and phasers completely so you just toxic them and spam sub. Having 2 scarfers on the same team just allows anything bulky to set up and sweep so I'd either change palkia to lustrous/ebelt/haban or terrakion to LO.
  11. gookie

    gookie Administrator
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    Choice Specs Kyurem-W / Choice Scarf Palkia / CM Three Attacks Kyogre / Choice Scarf Terrakion / Sub Protect Gliscor / SDef Steel Arceus

    This team is weak to, in order of importance -

    Toxic Spikes

    General hazards

    Ho-Oh

    CM Arceus - most of them.

    Kabutops

    Mamoswine

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again, two Choice Scarf users makes your team very inflexible, and with offense is often suicidal.

    Toxic Spikes completely ruin this team, as do hazards in general. The lack of Taunt on Gliscor only exasperates this weakness. Ho-Oh can also wreak havoc if it gets a Substitute up on Steel Arceus, Gliscor (if Toxic misses or it's faster) or Choice Scarf Terrakion or Palkia locked into the wrong move.

    CM Arceus, even the most common one, Ghost, can punch massive holes in this team, and if it gets burned by Arceus then it can bypass getting Thunder Wave'd by Kyogre then slammed by Specs Kyurem-W (which I presume is your strategy for it).

    I don't list many other weaknesses because on paper you're not weak to that much because you have two Choice Scarf users, but that is deceptive. This team cannot take a hit from way too much of the metagame.

    Unfortunately, I cannot change much at all without destroying the team composition completely, but some small improvements I can suggest are -

    Gliscor
    Show Hide

    move 1: Taunt
    move 2: Toxic
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Substitute
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Poison Heal
    nature: Impish
    evs: 244 HP / 180 Def / 84 Spe


    Taunt + Toxic can shut down hazard setters and Chansey and Giratina. Running some Speed will do you a world of good, letting you get a Toxic off on Ho-Oh before it gets a Substitute up, and Substitute stall speed creeping base 90s. As a general rule of thumb, Protect works better against HO teams, whilst Taunt is better against balance and defensive teams. More often than not Taunt will have more utility, don't fool yourself.

    Steel Arceus should be running 16 Speed EVs to get the jump on fully invested neutral natured base 90s, just in case (Adamant LO Groudon).

    Palkia should either be Lustrous or replaced with Latias. Latias is a better Kyogre check, whilst Lustrous breaks through Ferrothorn where Latias can't. CM Latias also beats most CM Arceus in a CM war with Psyshock (if you choose to run it, Thunder or Surf generally has more utility), even Ghost, if it gets the boost in first.

    Palkia
    Show Hide

    move 1: Fire Blast
    move 2: Spacial Rend
    move 3: Surf
    move 4: Thunder
    item: Lustrous Orb
    ability: Pressure
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SDef / 252 Spe


    Latias
    Show Hide

    move 1: Dragon Pulse
    move 2: Thunder / Surf
    move 3: Calm Mind
    move 4: Recover
    item: Soul Dew
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 52 HP / 204 SpA / 252 Spe


    Your current variant of Kyogre cannot handle even Leftovers Ho-Oh, as Brave Bird 2HKOes it. You should use a bulky RestTalk variant, as that can also absorb sleep and status for your team (switching Gliscor into Darkrai isn't a good idea).

    Kyogre
    Show Hide

    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Roar
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Drizzle
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SDef


    Good luck.
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Don 't bring up choiced Kyogre, as i was clearly talking about physically bulky RestTalk Kyogre.

    Ferrothorn simply gets too many set-up chances. Some examples are after your Kyurem-W kills something with DM, after Palkia kills something with everything except from Fire Blast, against Steel Arceus, against Gliscor and against Kyogre. This means that half of your team is Ferrothorn bait, with no way to do something to it, and then 2 more of your pokes can be set-up on by Ferrothorn if they are locked into their most spammable moves. Gliscor cannot set-up on Ferrothorn, the exact opoosite happens, as after Ferrothorn sets up on Gliscor, who can't do anything except fire a few weak EQs, Kyogre will come in and force you out. Remember, i was talking about the combo of Ferrothorn and RestTalk Kyogre, not Ferro alone. I still believe that if you face this duo, you are in for some serious trouble, but if you are fine with it ok.
  13. Stone RG

    Stone RG Megas are broke

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    I think Latias replacing Palkia would be a good change, since its a much better switch-in to Kyogre:

    Latias@Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    Timid Nature
    EVs: 104 HP, 204 Sp Att, 192 Spd
    - Calm Mind
    - Recover
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Why the hell HP Fire in the rain? Because as i (and others) see it, your team has really some issues with Ferrothorn, Latias is an excellent lure for him as long as rain is not up (and even with rain up HP Fire does over 50% after the CM). The EV spread nabs a clean 2HKO on support Groudon and Excadrill, as well as Scizor trying to trap you.

    I agree with everyone saying Gliscor should have Taun and a faster EV spread, since hazards in general deastroy your hardest hitter, Kyurem-W.
  14. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
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    800
    OK, so after playtesting the suggestions I've received, I've updated the OP with all the changes I've made to the team so far. Palkia is out, CM Refresh Latias is in. Thanks for all the suggestions so far guys!

    On the subject of Ferrothorn, I've decided that Taunt is enough, especially if I burn it. Latias 2HKOes it at +6, which is easy since Gyro Ball is relatively uncommon, and if they are using it I'll just burn Ferro and continue setting up. If it wasn't before, then Ferrothorn is no longer anything more than the most annoying Steel-type but something I can easily overcome. It looks like a big threat, but it needs to be played perfectly, and there is no player capable of doing that that I've faced so far. It just gets worn down easily since it only has Leech Seed for recovery. 40% from Draco Meteor here, 30% from Hydro Pump there, possible burn damage, etc.

    Ho-Oh is also a victim of this, in that it's a large threat on paper, but since my team completely annihilates Groudon, all I have to do is sacrifice Kyogre to get rain up, Draco Meteor Forretress to keep up SR, and then it's nothing. Not to mention, any set that is bulky enough to cause problems is slower than Gliscor is currently, which means it eats Toxic.

    The only teams that use Toxic Spikes are stall teams, and it just so happens that the three members of my team that do the best against stall (Gliscor, Arceus, and Latias) are immune. I also set up shop on every single T-Spikes user, so all I see Toxic Spikes as are two free setup turns.

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