Mewtwo (revamp) (QC 3/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by firecape, Aug 1, 2012.

  1. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    So Mewtwo needs an update apparently, and Colonel_M is lazy so I stole it from him!

    [​IMG]
    Mewtwo

    [Overview]
    • can do literally anything it wants with its massive movepool and great stats
    • Great coverage
    • Amazing Speed and special attacks
    • Psystrike is a huge asset this generation allowing it to smash Chansey/Blissey/Ho-Oh
    • Doesn't usually sweep but excels at blasting holes
    • its not frail but not bulky; can take a hit
    • not exactly the best typing or defenses, but it can still run an effective walling set with an extremely fast Taunt and Recover
    • No true counters 100% of the time; depends on set and what that set is running
    • arguably one of the best and most threatening Pokemon in the game
    • Biggest downfall is 4 moveslot syndrome


    [SET]
    name: Psycho Killer
    move 1: Psystrike
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Aura Sphere / Fire Blast
    move 4: Calm Mind / Fire Blast / Recover
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Raw power and blazing speed coupled with great coverage make this set extremely dangerous
    • will almost always get at least one kill
    • won't usually be able to sweep, but excels at blasting holes in teams, easily being able to get 1-2 kills if used at the correct time
    • Psystrike was a great gift for Mewtwo, allowing it to power through Chansey and Blissey (and to a lesser extent Kyogre and Ho-Oh) without Selfdestruct
    • Ice Beam hits the multitude of Dragon-types hard and is a great attacking type because it can hit Giratina/Lugia/Groudon for super effective damage
    • The choice between Fire Blast and Aura Sphere in the third slot can be a difficult one. Fire Blast is dependent on the weather either being neutral or sunny to be able to hurt Jirachi, Metagross, and Bronzong. Jirachi is notable because it is the closest thing to a Mewtwo "counter" there is outside of sun. Aura Sphere hurts Tyranitar, Heatran, Dialga, and Dark Arceus on the other hand.
    • The last slot has some options too. If you want more power, Mewtwo easily finds opportunities to use Calm Mind with its offensive presence. If you don't want to choose between Aura Sphere and Fire Blast, you can simply use both, forgoing Calm Mind in favor of less power but better coverage.
    • EVs are obvious
    • Timid is necessary to outspeed Pokemon such as Darkrai, Arceus, and Shaymin-S

    [Additional Comments]
    • Substitute can be used to take advantage of the switching Mewtwo is bound to cause. The answer to Mewtwo is usually sacrifice something then switch out a revenge killer: Substitute capitalizes on this.
    • Mewtwo has tons of coverage options, but the ones listed are usually ideal
    • Grass Knot can be used if you want a move to smack Kyogre and Groudon
    • Thunder is a weather-dependant coverage option for hitting Manaphy, Kyogre, Ho-Oh, and Lugia hard
    • Thunderbolt can be used as well but generally considered inferior - Mewtwo really enjoys the extra power Thunder provides
    • Shadow Ball can be used to hit Pokemon such as Giratina, Latias, and Lugia . It also hits Wobbuffet hard, but it should be noted that Wobbuffet has 0% chance to be OHKOed by even +1 Shadow Ball after Stealth Rock. Also, even super effective Shadow Ball is outdamaged by neutral Fire Blast in the sun (by a considerable amount)
    • Flamethrower is there for reliability and more PP, but Mewtwo really needs that extra power
    • If you are using Fire Blast, Groudon is a good teammate to provide sunlight
    • Residual damage is Mewtwo's biggest enemy, meaning a Rapid Spinner such as Forretress, Tentacruel, or Excadrill can improve Mewtwo's staying power. Tentacruel can also absorb Toxic Spikes.
    • What can check Mewtwo defensively depends on the coverage move.
    • Without Aura Sphere, Tyranitar, Heatran, Dialga, and Dark Arceus in the rain can all give Mewtwo some trouble. All three of four Pokemon are weak to Fighting-type attacks, so something like Fighting Arceus (which can easily take a hit from each of these Pokemon bar a Specs variant of Dialga) works well. Ground Arceus can also work for three out of the four, but besides those two there are few Ground- or Fighting-types that don't mind the attacks those four can throw at them.
    • Jirachi, Psychic Arceus, Metagross, Bronzong can annoy Mewtwo if it lacks Fire Blast or its raining. Groudon with Fire Punch and Earthquake can handle the three Steel-types (Jirachi being really the only one commonly used), where as Psychic Arceus is rarely used, but can be destroyed by Darkrai.
    • Mewtwo is often relying on raw power to muscle through Pokemon, so entry hazards go a long way to aid Mewtwo smashing through teams. A Pokemon to lay them down is good (Forretress, Tentacruel again + Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Deoxys-S). SR + SPikes with either Shadow Ball or sunshine with Fire Blast is needed to ensure Wobbuffet doesn't counter Mewtwo even with +1 SpA, although mind games can be played with Calm Mind / attacking move + Encore/Mirror Coat
    • One really shouldn't try to support Mewtwo with defensive synergy as people will rarely try to take out Mewtwo via super effective coverage, rather strong neutral attacks or status.
    • People often rely on revenge killers to take Mewtwo out after it has taken a few rounds of Life Orb recoil, so something like lure Thunder Wave Kyogre can help out (be careful if using Fire Blast + Kyogre)
    • Very few Pokemon can actually outright OHKO full HP Mewtwo with the movesets they commonly run, so be careful with your Life Orb recoil and prediction!
    • Leftovers can be used to take advantage of this, but the power drop hurts
    • Wobbuffet can be used to eliminate a Choiced revenge killer and open up a sweep for another Pokemon. Unfortunately, it has the same weaknesses as Mewtwo, but people rarely try to exploit Mewtwo's weaknesses to take it down. Rather, they rely on strong neutral attacks.

    notes on bulky attacker (open)

    Ok so the set on site has some major slashing issues. I really don't know how to fix this. Throwing all the support moves into slot 4 with a mention of how you can swap out coverage for support moves makes it look too much like Psycho Killer, while Calm Mind / Substitute / Recover are all fairly good and hard to choose between. I also really think this set is a bit of wasted potential without the ability to set up, as without that you may as well just mention a bulkier spread in Psycho Killer. Also, without Ice Beam, this is just set up bait for Latias :/ (nvm)Input needed


    [SET]
    name: Bulky Attacker
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Psystrike
    move 3: Fire Blast / Aura Sphere
    move 4: Recover / Ice Beam
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 156 HP / 100 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • A bulkier variant of the Psycho Killer set
    • This set aims to use Mewtwo's bulk and utility movepool to set up while staying relatively healthy, then proceed to SMASH
    • Gives up the power to simply smash and tear holes for the ability to set up Calm Mind more reliably
    • "Bulky Attacker" may seem to indicate this is inferior and wasting potential on such a powerful attacker, but this set is actually more likely to pull off a sweep and focuses on that rather than blasting holes
    • Mewtwo's bulk is often overlooked and is not too shabby
    • Takes advantage of the sacrifice something and revenge kill mentality a lot of players use when facing Mewtwo
    • Psystrike is basically manditory on Mewtwo as a powerful STAB move that destroys Chansey/Blissey
    • the choice between Fire Blast / Aura Sphere depends on what you want to hit harder: Steel-types such as Jirachi Metagross and Bronzong (as well as being extremely powerful against Pokemon that resist Psychic that are neutral to Fire in the sun), or Pokemon like Dialga, Heatran, and Tyranitar.
    • Calm Mind is extremely useful to assist in sweeping
    • Ice Beam is useful for additional coverage against Dragons
    • Recover is useful to heal off damage taken while setting up. After a Calm Mind use, many Pokemon are unable to do more than chip away at Mewtwo's health, allowing it to get a few Calm Minds before they realize their efforts to chip away are in vain as Mewtwo uses Recover.
    • Timid is still necessary to outspeed Arceus and Darkrai
    • 100 SpA EVs ensure Psystrike can 2HKO 52 HP Latias after Stealth Rock, forcing it to either spam Recover, allowing you to get another Calm Mind, or die
    • Leftovers goes a long way and Life Orb is far too detrimental to the purpose of this set

    [Additional Comments]
    • Mewtwo has major four moveslot syndrome
    • Taunt is also an option to help Mewtwo set up against slower-paced teams
    • You can invest more in bulk or more in SpA depending on how bulky/powerful you want Mewtwo to be
    • Substitute is useful for preventing status and scouting counters. With 204 HP EVs, Mewtwo can make 101 HP substitutes which require 2 uses of Seismic Toss to break. Mewtwo can easily set up a Substitute on a lot of Dragon-types after they have used Draco Meteor. Coincidentally, 52 SpA EVs (how much will be left over) are enough to ensure Latias will be 2HKOed by Ice Beam even if it uses Calm Mind assuming it switches into Mewtwo using Calm Mind with Stealth Rock on the field.
    • There are quite a few combinations of utility/coverage moves that you can tailor for your team
    • More coverage moves means Mewtwo will be walled by less Pokemon, but also means it will (generally) have less potential to set up and sweep
    • If you don't really care about the extra power and would prefer a little extra bulk, you can move the SpA EVs into HP
    • Conversely, running max SpA is also an option if you want to hit harder, but doing this kind of goes against the idea of this set
    • This Mewtwo appreciated a bit more support than the all-out offensive variant
    • Toxic Spikes basically neuter this variant of Mewtwo, so something to absorb or spin them away is necessary (Tentacruel, Poison Arceus, Forretress, Excadrill)
    • Without Ice Beam, Lugia in the rain (or in any weather if you lack Fire Blast too), Latias, and to a lesser extent Giratina can wall you all day. Darkrai, Ghost Arceus, and Dark Arceus can all help against these Pokemon.
    • Without Aura Sphere Dialga, Tyranitar, Dark Arceus in the rain, and Heatran can give Mewtwo some problems. Fighting Arceus is a good choice that can take a hit from all of these Pokemon and strike back with super effective STAB. Ground Arceus also deserves a mention for being able to take 3/4 of the Pokemon on.
    • Without Fire Blast, Jirachi, Bronzong, and Metagross can attempt to wall you, but, depending on what they are running, they may not be able to do much back. Jirachi can't always break Mewtwo's substitutes with Iron Head, Metagross does around the same damage to Mewtwo as Mewtwo does back with +1 Aura Sphere, and is always outsped even if it is holding a Scarf. Bronzong does fairly well, but is rarely seen in Ubers.
    • Without Calm Mind, you fail to break through Pokemon such as Chansey
    • Forgoing Substitute gives up the ability to scout incoming switches and makes Mewtwo vulnerable to things such as Thunder Wave Dialga and Toxic Jirachi
    • Without Recover, you have a lot less staying ability
    • Groudon can provide Stealth Rock and power up Mewtwo's Fire Blast
    • Mewtwo can't really create defensive cores with this set, so one should focus on offensive synergy rather than defensive. Pokemon like Darkrai (which can eliminate most problematic Calm Mind users that Mewtwo has trouble with) and Fighting Arceus make good partners

    [SET]
    name: Support (StallTwo)
    move 1: Taunt
    move 2: Recover
    move 3: Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
    move 4: Psystrike / Light Screen / Substitute
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 80 SpD / 176 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Seems rather weird, but is extremely effective, especially against opposing stall teams
    • Mewtwo's great Speed and support movepool let it stall out and annoy a wide variety of threats. Pressure helps too.
    • Taunt allows Mewtwo to prevent other Pokemon from statusing it, healing themselves, or setting up
    • Recover in conjunction with Mewtwo's Speed allows it to heal before most things can even touch it
    • Once again, 4 moveslot syndrome kicks in for slots 3 and 4
    • Will-O-Wisp allows Mewtwo to stall out non-Fire-type physical attacks quite effectively, letting it repeatedly heal while they slowly die to burn damage. Toxic does more damage faster with the downside of leaving Mewtwo helpless against Steel-types and without a way to cushion the blows of powerhouses such as Zekrom and Groudon
    • Psystrike allows Mewtwo to hit Ho-Oh and Reshiram hard if you are running Will-O-Wisp, as otherwise Mewtwo would have no way of touching them
    • Light Screen lets Mewtwo sponge the hits of powerful special attackers with ease, and makes Mewtwo fairly hard to crack when used with Will-O-Wisp
    • Substitute is useful for scouting a switch in, and preventing status. It also helps Mewtwo stall out the numerous moves with 8 PP, thanks to Pressure.
    • There is very little reason to run anything other than leftovers
    • While Mewtwo really specializes in neutering things with Taunt + Status + Recover spam
    • Oftentimes relies on prediction between status and Taunt (is Ferrothorn going to Gyro Ball or Leech Seed?)

    [Additional Comments]
    • The given EVs maximize bulk while still allowing it to outspeed Arceus
    • EVs are definitely not set in stone as Mewtwo has a variety of viable EV spread. You can run enough to outspeed Darkrai (216 EVs with a neutral nature, though Mewtwo can't do much back), or, if outspeeding Arceus doesn't bother you, drop it down to enough to outspeed base 110 Speed Pokemon such as Latias, Latios, and Lugia (96 EVs with +Speed or 220 EVs with neutral nature). These three are a handy benchmark, but you can drop Mewtwo's speed down still further to enough to outspeed base 95s, namely Rayquaza, if that all you really care about (88 EVs with neutral nature).
    • Where you move the EVs to is really up to you. Mewtwo can go physically or specially defensive, and you can even shift the SpD EVs to Def.
    • The best way to determine your EV spread is to open up a damage calc and determine what is most important for Mewtwo to survive for its purpose on your team, because there's just so many options
    • With Will-O-Wisp you have to stall for more turns (risking crit, 10% chance moves etc) than Toxic, but with Toxic physical attackers give you trouble.
    • Without Light Screen, powerful special attacker can demolish Mewtwo, though, given, not many like taking even an uninvested Psystrike (252 HP Kyogre has a good chance to be 2HKOed after Stealth Rock). Chansey or Blissey can easily sponge special attacks if you forgo Light Screen.
    • One of the great things about this Mewtwo is that it completely rewrites the list of Pokemon that can check/counter it. Defensive or bulky Pokemon hoping to tank a hit from Mewtwo and cripple it through non-attacking methods now are easily neutered and offense is the easiest way to break through it
    • Darkrai, Ho-Oh, and Reshiram are the biggest enemies to this set if Mewtwo is running Will-O-Wisp. Darkrai doesn't really care about anything Mewtwo can run besides Toxic and can smash it with Dark Pulse or sleep it with Dark Void. Ho-Oh and Reshiram don't really appreciate Psystrike, but can wall Mewtwo to no end if it lacks both Psystrike and Toxic. These are two Pokemon you do not want to give a free switch in to, so Stealth Rock support and something to deal with them is helpful if you forgo both of these moves. Kyogre can take Fire-type attacks from both but has to watch out for their other STAB. Kyogre can also take care of Darkrai provided that Sleep Clause is activated and Dark Pulse doesn't flinch.
    • Toxic Spikes completely neuter this Mewtwo set, so a spinner or absorber (Forretress, Tentacruel, Excadrill, Poison Arceus) is almost mandatory.
    • Tspikes support may contradict the use of Will-O-Wisp, but they are notable for allowing Mewtwo to simply Taunt and begin spamming Recover without having to waste a turn (and take damage) statusing something.
    • Appreciates hazard support for the switching it will cause
    • Xatu shuts this set down

    [Other Options]
    • Physical sets? (bulk up)
    • Expert Belt I guess
    • It does have a massive movepool
    • Dual Screens + Selfdestruct + Taunt
    • Choice sets suck
    • Defense boosting moves

    [Checks and Counters]
    • It does not have any failsafe counters. Ever.
    • One must be careful because checks to offensive Mewtwo often fall flat against a support variant or even a more defensively-oriented offensive set
    • defensive Dark Arceus with Payback is a bit gimmicky but is probably one of the closest things to a "counter" offensive Mewtwo has, but will actually lose to stalltwo
    • Jirachi can check offensive variants in the rain or in neutral weather if they lack Fire Blast. +1 Aura Sphere fails to 2HKO, but Fire Blast still can unfortunately. However, Jirachi will still have an opportunity to Poison/Paralyze Mewtwo, effectively neutering it.
    • In a similar vein, Metagross and Bronzong can be used for a more offensive and less defensive check in the rain/if Mewtwo lacks Fire Blast
    • If Mewtwo lacks Aura Sphere, Dialga , Heatran, Tyranitar, and Dark Arceus (in the rain) can all act as effective checks
    • Without Life Orb and Calm Mind, Chansey has a respectable chance to live 2 Psystrikes, but don't count on it because any Mewtwo without Life Orb will most likely have either Calm Mind or Substitute.
    • Wobbuffet can very effectively check non-Taunt variants, as even +1 Shadow Ball will never OHKO 28/252+ Wobbuffet after Stealth Rock. +1 Fire Blast in the sun, however, has a decent chance (a little over 50%) to OHKO Wobbuffet after Stealth Rock
    • Since Mewtwo lacks any true counters, revenge killers are often used (Scarf Kyurem-B (YAY), Zekrom, Kyogre, etc etc)
    • Be wary of going straight to revenge killers though, as few things outright KO full HP Mewtwo, so hazards and abuse of Life Orb recoil via prediction are often useful before the revenge killer comes in
    • That being said, almost every user of Choice Scarf can revenge kill Mewtwo after some prior damage. Physical ones such as Zekrom, Garchomp, and Terrakion are notable for being able to revenge kill Mewtwo regardless of how many Calm Minds it has obtained
    • Specially based Choice Scarf users must be careful not to let Mewtwo obtain too many Calm Minds
    • Toxic Spikes and the fact that Mewtwo commonly carries Life Orb can help wear it don quickly
    • Giratina-O can make a dent in Mewtwo with Shadow Sneak, but Ice Beam does major damage back
    • Ghost Arceus can take a hit and OHKO Mewtwo with Judgment provided it hasn't used Calm Mind. If it has +1 SpD, Arceus needs a good deal of prior damage to ensure the KO with Judgment
    • Victini resists all of Mewtwo's commonly used moves and can OHKO with V-create in the sun. Despite it resisting, Mewtwo can still 2HKO it after Stealth Rock so it has to be careful
    • If you can keep Stealth Rock off the field (which is oftentimes easier said than done), Multiscale Lugia can attempt to check Mewtwo with Thunder Wave or Toxic in combination with Roost. Or just flat out spamming Roost to kill Mewtwo with Life Orb recoil (won't work if Mewtwo has Calm Mind or Taunt), and only against offensive variants
    • For stalltwo, powerful special attackers (such as Kyogre and Reshiram) are good choices.
    • Ho-Oh and Reshiram are immune to WoW from Stalltwo, but both take a beating from Psystrike. They can effectively force it out (or KO it) in most cases though
    • Psychic Arceus gives Mewtwo some trouble if Mewtwo it lacks Fire Blast or the sun isn't shining
  2. Anikrahman1995

    Anikrahman1995

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    Ctrl+F Victini 0 results

    Why doesnt victini get a mention in checks/counters? It resists all of Mewtwo's common moves(Shadow Ball is almost never used) and can OHKO with V-Create under sun. Now for damage calculations:
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Mewtwo (Neutral) Psystrike vs 4HP/0Def Victini (Neutral): 35% - 41% (120 - 141 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

    Mewtwo's strongest attack in neutral weather against Victini is only a 3hko.

    Victini is used in sunny weather so,
    252SpAtk Life Orb Unnerve Mewtwo (Neutral) Fire Blast in Sun vs 4HP/0SpDef Victini (Neutral): 42% - 49% (144 - 170 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
    252SpAtk Life Orb +1 Unnerve Mewtwo (Neutral) Fire Blast in Sun vs 4HP/0SpDef Victini (Neutral): 63% - 74% (216 - 254 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    -----> This is not a OHKO with Stealth Rock.

    Still a 3hko. If Mewtwo uses Calm Mind on the switch, both attacks 2hko but Vitini OHKOs in return. Oh BTW, scarf outspeeds and is also the weakest variant so,

    252Atk Victini (Neutral) V-create in Sun vs 4HP/0Def Mewtwo (Neutral): 112% - 133% (400 - 472 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.

    BTW, this requires that Stealth Rock not be up on Victini's side of the field as then Psystrike and Fire Blast can 2hko. Hope I could contribute somehow.

    EDIT: Why isnt Lugia mentioned in checks(not counters)? It can paralyze Mewtwo, roost on the ice beams to regain multiscale and then fish for parahax before using whirlwind to phaze it out.
  3. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    I forgot Victini because it is rarely ever seen lol. I'll add it in. To be honest I didn't mention Lugia because it isn't that reliable. I mean, its has a very strong chance to be OHKOed after Stealth Rock from +1 Mewtwo (with 252/0 at least). Even with Thunder Wave, you have to hope that it gets full para when you use it. That and or low damage rolls is the only scenario in which your Lugia lives with Stealth Rock up. I'll throw in a mention of Multiscale Lugia with SR off the field though I guess. Giratina is in a similar boat. It isn't 2HKOed by non-boosted Ice Beam, but it can't really do anything to Mewtwo.
  4. polop

    polop
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    Actually Latias can't set up on it due to +1 Psystrike 2HKOing O_O, yes Latias is WEAK.

    Also can recover be slashed into the 4th slot of Psycho Killer, its been tested to be effective but I don't know if that destroys the point of there being a bulky attacker set since it was supposed to reduce the slashitis.

    I'm also a bit concerned about bulky attacker being an inferior Latias, seeing as Latias has levitate to avoid spikes + tspikes, refresh to beat Blissey, and the ability to double as a Specs Ogre switch-in, but 101 subs and a legit movepool (fire blast, ice beam, aura sphere) is pretty huge so I DONT KNOW.

    Something to put about stall 2 in its set comments is that its extremely easy to phaze out. Anything that uses Dragon Tail can just lol really and then you have the chance to setup tspikes or hazards or something... Also Xatu in AC for partner for Stall 2 for bouncing back hazards :D, also its worst enemy since it lols at Psystrike and can make it Taunt itself for more trolling. The type stacking is weird though. Stall 2 also appreciates hazards to hasten the death of the other team, needs a mention about being a good quick stall member too IMO.
  5. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    Ok so lets get to this.

    First off the 1st set last slot looks really terrible imo and the moves look oddly paired. Why does Substitute get a slash at all on Psycho Killer, it should be relegated to AC imo. Ideally IMO, Psycho Killer should look like this,

    name: Psycho Killer
    move 1: Psystrike
    move 2: Ice Beam / Fire Blast
    move 3: Aura Sphere
    move 4: Calm Mind / Recover

    Ice Beam shouldn't have a slot of its own and should be slashed with Fire Blast since its arguably more useful on sun teams and turns a lot of partial Mewtwo checks into non checks. Aura Sphere needs to be there so that Mewtwo can take on Steels especially Dialga and Steelceus. On the last slot Calm Mind is for the buff to the offense and special defense while Recover can be really really good for healing on the forced switch, poppy introduced me to this set and its actually great.

    Yeah i have to agree with firecape, i dont get the point of bulky mewtwo. What exactly is it accomplishing ? 204 HP is no great benchmark anyway. Like shrang said on irc, 101 HP is so DPP. What exactly is going to take on Mewtwo with Seismic Toss, that isnt defeated by Psycho Killer anyway. Stuff like Chansey shouldnt even take on Mewtwo in the first place. I frankly think this set should be scrapped and be dumped into OO or if you're feeling generous into Psycho Killer AC. Not to mention 52 SpA is just too weak, you're not even realiably 2HKOing other Mewtwo without Sun -_-

    You should probably mention on Stalltwo that its no longer as good as it was in gen 4 since Dragon Tail is here like Mr LOL said. It can no longer clamp down on Tina like it used to earlier but I guess its barely viable. Rest looks fine. I'll wait a bit for feedback from you before approving it :p
  6. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Just scrap Substitute off from Psycho Killer. Mewtwo can just smash Ferrothorn with Fire Blast regardless of weather. There's no way Ferrothorn can wall Mewtwo.

    I actually agree with firecape on the Ice Beam slashes. Ice Beam is really important because it hits Giratina and Lugia harder than any other move. It's your only way to 2HKO Giratina directly(after SR for better chances) without any boosts and destroy Lugia at least some of the time. Getting walled by Lugia outside of sun isn't fun at all.

    Aura Sphere smashes Tyranitar, Heatran and Dialga. However, Fire Blast already smacks Dialga hard in the sun, even +1 Ice Beam 2HKOes it. Heatran is rare and Tyranitar is not overly common. Ice Beam also knocks out Ground Arceus/Grass Arceus easily. Psytrike destroys Kyurem already and Fire Blast hits Steel Arceus harder.

    StallTwo is still fine when I used it. If you are mentioning Victini, you might as well mention Cresselia too. Without Fire Blast, Cresselia can come in and paralyze/toxic you, set up Light Screen, Moonlight off the damage and do nothing else.

    Agreeing with barry. Bulky Mewtwo is a waste of its sweeping potential. Without much Special Attack EVs and Calm Mind, Mewtwo is pretty weak. Even physically defensive Ho-Oh walls you.

    firecape is strong and I trust him more than anyone here :)
    QC APPROVED 1/3
  7. Anikrahman1995

    Anikrahman1995

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    I dont really get the point of Ice Beam being a move with slashes. It hits most of the Dragons in the tier for supereffective damage. Without Ice Beam, Zekrom can take a hit and hit it back. Lugia and Giratina and Giratina-O and even Groudon, to an extent, can prove to be even more problematic. Fire Blast needs a slash with Aura Sphere and just a mention that Mewtwo should use Fire Blast if it has Drought support since a Sun-Boosted Fire Blast is as strong as a supereffective Aura Sphere. So, the point about hitting Dialga and Steel-Arceus with Aura Sphere is not that important. Also if Mewtwo is used in a sun team then it will have very little use for Aura Sphere since all that it needs to hit will be dealt the same damage from sun-boosted Fire Blast.
    EDIT: Ninja'd
  8. shrang

    shrang OM OM OM
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    Aura Sphere is definitely a more important move than Ice Beam, IMO, while Fire Blast and Ice Beam are interchangeable, depending on the team you're running. I personally hate Mewtwo that can't beat Scizor, which actually look like it might see a rise with Soul Dew Lati@s making a return as well as the new Kyurem forms. Aura Sphere gives you the best general coverage alongside Psystrike, while allowing you to revenge-kill Darkrai pretty much whenever you want. Tyranitar is also common enough to warrant the use of Aura Sphere on all sets. With Fire Blast and sun support, Mewtwo literally has no counters whatsoever, while Ice Beam gives general reliability in the rain. I personally like Fire Blast better because it is more dangerous. As for the last slot, Calm Mind / Recover look like the best options, but make a strong emphasis in AC that you are at perfect liberty to run that other coverage move.

    On another note, I do think Choice Scarf Mewtwo should be given a shot. Like I've said in pretty much every Mewtwo analysis so far, it may seem crappy looking simply because Psycho Killer is so good, Scarf Mewtwo is still quite a nice revenge killer if you need one. 591 base Speed is outspeeding stuff like Adamant Excadrill, +2 Blaziken, and a whole host of speed boosters. It also has the coverage to take down pretty much all of them, as well as Trick to fuck walls up. It's definitely worth looking into, IMO:

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Psystrike
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Aura Sphere
    move 4: Fire Blast / Trick
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
  9. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    I'm not lazy I just wanted to switch just in case TrollFreak wanted to do an analysis still. Kyurem-B write-up will likely be worked on tomorrow afternoon but meh.

    Anyway, Psycho Killer looks really slashy and we should probably cover what is necessary amd what is not. I think all of us, especially Cold_Eye, can agree Psystrike is a must on the set. It seems like the disagreement starts right at slot 2...

    I want to emphasize that I really think Ice Beam is kmportant. It hits the Lati twins, Giratinas, and Lugia. Also aside from weather conditions and Aura Sphere, it is one of Mewtwo's better moves against Dialga. Ice Beam also strikes Dragon Arceus, for what ots worth.

    The next slot is when it gets tricky. I really think, especially with Groudon support, Fire Blast is probably your next best attack. With the sun its like a psuedo-STAB and doesn't get trolled as hard by Chople Darkrai. Also, with the possibility of Scizor returning to hamper the Lati twins, its a crucial attack to carry. Aura Sphere should be slashed with it for rainy conditions that Mewtwo might encounter.

    Slot 4 should probably the hardest one for me because I always think I should use Grass Knot or Thunder to hit Kyogre (and Thunder is slightly better versus Lugia in the rain). Calm Mind always seems like an afterthought to me, but this might be because I kind of play Psycho Killer like a revenge killer before sweeper.

    Guess that's my two cents for what its worth.
  10. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    I agree with Scarf Mewtwo because it can revenge both speedy weather abusers and smashpass. Strong coverage also makes it hard to switch into, which is always great for a scarfer.
  11. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    why is it even called psycho killer? nothing differentiates it from the bulky attacker, not psystrike, not calm mind, except its offensive nature. i understand if it's some sort informal standard, but logically it should juts be called 'offensive'

    anyway,

    Psystrike
    Ice Beam
    Aura Sphere / Fire Blast
    Calm Mind / Recover

    IMO. Ice Beam should always be used because it hits so many things super effectively.

    bulky attacker should be

    Psystrike
    Calm Mind
    Recover / Substitute / Taunt
    Ice Beam / Aura Sphere / Fire Blast

    bulky mewtwo should definitely be boosting, calm mind is non-negoatiable. third slot is the accompaniment move to CM, allowing cm + recover, cm + sub, cm + taunt
    last move is auxiliary coverage

    phys.def ho-oh can take any attack from +1 mewtwo and attempt to burn it (except thunder)

    ok choice scarf looks situational, but cool to have a super fast scarfer

    qc 2/3
  12. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    @ Psycho Killer

    Honestly, Calm Mind/Recover on the last slot doesn't feel right to me. This is because 4 attack Mewtwo is perfectly viable (by that I mean really good), and allows Mewtwo to abuse its coverage. Something like

    Psystrike
    Ice Beam
    Aura Sphere / Fire Blast
    Calm Mind / Fire Blast / Recover

    ...is probably the best set up.
  13. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    Ok some major changes made to skeleton after discussing on IRC
  14. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    On the bulky Attacker, why is Fire Blast listed before Aura Sphere? Getting past Dialga and Tyranitar is HUGE. Jirachi, Bronzong, and Metagross are uncommon anyway. I also want a Substitute slash somewhere, as SubCM is a perfectly viable set. Probably on the last slot, after Ice Beam.

    Why is that? You should list every Pokemon that is capable of beating the Pokemon you're writing about, and that is viable in the metagame you're writing for. Thus, add Dark Arceus, Psychic Arceus, and Scarf Kyurem-B. Forretress can do some damage with its Gyro Ball, and only fears Fire Blast. And yeah, do mention Specially Defensive Giratina.


    [​IMG]
    QC Approved 3/3
  15. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    I'll test out scarf I didn't forget don't worry!
  16. Asterat

    Asterat

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    name: Psycho Killer
    move 1: Psystrike
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Fire Blast/Calm Mind
    move 4: Aura Sphere/Recover/Taunt

    My version of the extremekiller.

    Explanation.

    If you want to put holes in people, you want four attacking moves. If you want to attempt some sort of (mini)sweep, you should use better coverage moves. With stealth rock on the field, the vast majority of things are OHKOed by psystrike, ice beam, or aura sphere. Calm Mind and fire blast doesn't do very much for coverage, your sweep will be stopped by ttar or dialga. The only common pokemon to take the three coverage moves I suggest is forretress, who still takes like 70% from aura sphere. Recover could be used to preserve mewtwo. It is a very dangerous pokemon and if preserved can stick around to inflict more damage. Taunt would be used primarily if mewtwo was used as a lead, to prevent hazards.

    Bottom line: If you want to attack right away you use fire blast. If you want to set up and sweep you use calm mind. Taunt and recover are other niche options, and could even be put in AC or OO, or whatever section they belong in.
  17. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    How are you going with this, firecape?
  18. Nexus

    Nexus Day 358: Believe
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    firecape is dead afaik, whoever wants to write this thing PM me. Preferably someone who has a good number of analyses under their belt.
  19. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    I live but it would probably be better if someone takes this over! If no one steps up I have a week off starting the 11th though...
  20. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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