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Mewtwo

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Jibaku, Oct 1, 2010.

  1. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    22:51 GreatSage for doing the romanized list i will give you a bonus reservation :)


    :D

    Sets to be noted: CM, and stalltwo (firecreep is writing this)
    Psycho Broken makes this so much easier to write

    [​IMG]
    Mewtwo Dex

    [Overview]

    • 154 base Special Attack, 130 base Speed, very well placed stats, insane movepool, "classic god of Pokemon"
    • Psycho Break, its new signature move, allow it to break down its former checks Blissey, Ghost Arceus, and Ho-oh, while doing massive damage to everything that doesn't resist it (especially to Palkia, Reshiram, and quite a few Arceus formes). Mewtwo finally has a reason to use its STAB.
    • Flaws: Average (though still respectable) defenses, weakness to Shadow Sneak. Mewtwo is one of the very few Pokemon who lacks actual flaws, making it essentially the "perfect Pokemon".

    [Set]
    name: Psycho Killer
    move 1: Calm Mind
    move 2: Psycho Break
    move 3: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    move 4: Aura Sphere
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    nature: Timid

    Set Comments:

    • Psycho Break destroys its former archnemesis Blissey, as well as taking care of Ho-oh and many Arceus formes.
    • The damage output from Psycho Break is insane - even an unboosted Psycho Break will 2HKO Latias and Latios, as well as Victini after Stealth Rock, the few Pokemon that resist the Psychic/Fire/Fighting attacking combination. Psycho Break also helps Mewtwo break down Pokemon that already have Calm Mind boosts. It also helps Mewtwo avoid Calm Mind wars.
    • Fire Blast destroys Steel-type Pokemon such as Scizor, Metagross, and Jirachi, who may otherwise murder Mewtwo. It gives a Mewtwo a reliable method of hitting opposing Psychic-types and Groudon as well. With a Calm Mind boost, Fire Blast has a chance to OHKO Wobbuffet after Stealth Rock damage, assuming that the weather is sunny. Flamethrower can be used for reliability
    • Aura Sphere smashes Tyranitar and is a reliable attack to use against Dialga, Darkrai, and Dark Arceus.
    Additional Comments:

    • Leftovers is an option to preserve Mewtwo's bulk and make it even tougher to revenge kill.
    • For those who dislike Fire Blast or Flamethrower's reliance on sunlight, Ice Beam and Shadow Ball are options over them. Ice Beam allows Mewtwo to act as a revenger to Garchomp and hits Lugia, Giratina, and Giratina-O hard. However, this makes Mewtwo much easier to stop with Wobbuffet, and Scizor, Jirachi, and Metagross would have nothing to fear. Shadow Ball gives Mewtwo a reliable option against opposing Psychics.
    Counters and Teammates:

    • Counters: Nothing.
    • Mewtwo can be revenged by Choice Scarf Kyogre and Zekrom. Furthermore, Giratina-O can pick it off at 50% with Shadow Sneak and can survive an unboosted Psycho Break
    • Kyogre can weaken Mewtwo's Fire-type attack through Drizzle, allowing Lugia and Wobbuffet to take care of Mewtwo more easily.
    • Choice Scarf Victini resists Mewtwo's entire moveset and can deal massive damage with Flare Blitz
    • Choice Scarf Jirachi, though fearing Fire Blast or Flamethrower, can launch a quick U-turn against Mewtwo and switching into Giratina-O to take the likely Fire-type attack. Giratina-O can then finish Mewtwo off with Shadow Sneak

    • Groudon lays down Stealth Rock and provides sunlight to power up Mewtwo. It also helps take down Choice Scarf Zekrom
    • Spikes support is not required since Mewtwo is strong enough to perform quick sweeps without them, but they are still appreciated
    • Palkia aids in walling Choice Scarf Kyogre
    • Wobbuffet can help Mewtwo set up and block Toxic Spikes with Safeguard.
    [Set]
    name: Stalltwo
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Taunt
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Light Screen
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe
    nature: Timid


    Set Comments
    • With everyone probably expecting a powerful Life Orb sweeper, Stalltwo can be a nasty surprise.
    • Will-O-Wisp cripples any physical attacker
    • Can easily stall out tons of threats
    • Light Screen allows it to take nearly all special attacks
    • Taunt prevents walls from healing or statusing it, while it prevents set up sweepers from setting up
    • Recover provides reliable recovery to keep Mewtwo healthy
    Additional Comments
    • This EV spread allows you to outspeed 252+ Arceus, but you can move more into Defense/Special Defense as you wish
    • Max Speed is an option to tie with opposing Mewtwo
    • There are many different options with the moves, you can mix and max with both Screens as well as Toxic and Will-O-Wisp, the only moves it needs at all times are Taunt and Recover
    Teammates and Counters
    • A cleric can make a great teammate as you will sometimes have to choose between Taunting/statusing/screening/recovering and you may mispredict
    • It still struggles against Kyogre, even with Light Screen, so Palkia can be a great teammate
    • Ho-Oh and Reshiram laugh at Will-O-Wisp, and completely wall Mewtwo if it uses Will-O-Wisp over Toxic, one again, Palkia can help, but also Tyranitar and Kyogre, but they must watch out for certain attacks
    • If you have Will-O-Wisp, Mewtwo will have trouble with Fire-types, so Kyogre or Palkia can help here
    • Stalltwo works great with Toxic Spikes support to help it wear down foes, but they also hinder it in the sense it is more vunerable to physical attackers
    • Forretress and Pendoraa can lay down Toxic Spikes
    • Entry hazards in general are great for Stalltwo as it will often cause tons of switches
    • Deoxys-S is a good choice for laying down Spikes and Stealth Rock

    [Optional Changes]

    • Thunder can strike Kyogre harder than everything else it has
    • Mewtwo can set up Reflect and Light Screen with ease due to its decent bulk and high Speed
    • Selfdestruct, although only half as powerful as it was in the previous generation, can be used to safely bring in another Pokemon in. This works best with Reflect and Light Screen
    • Choice Specs set can work for immediate power, but Mewtwo has one of the best sweeping capabilities in the game and it's usually not a good idea to sacrifice that for this option.
    • Choice Scarf makes Mewtwo a phenomenal revenge killer as it can revenge kill the likes of Rock Polish Groudon
    • Trick can be used with Choice Scarf or Choice Specs to disable a threat
    • Mewtwo can use Bulk Up and attempt to sweep physically, as well as reducing Shadow Sneak's damage output. However, it is often largely outclassed by the Calm Mind set due to its absurd power as well as also possessing the ability to annihilate Blissey
    • Grass Knot can be used to cover both Kyogre and Groudon in one moveslot
    • Amnesia can be used on the stalling set to prevent Choice Specs Kyogre from breaking it, and the special defense boost effect remains as long as Mewtwo is in the field, unlike Light Screen which wears out every 5 turns. However, Light Screen can be pesudopassed, allowing Mewtwo to support the team if it has to switch out.
    • Mewtwo can run an all out attacker set with Aura Sphere / Ice Beam / Flamethrower / Psycho Break, but generally prefers the sweeping ability Calm Mind gives.

    [Team Options]

    • Groudon sets up Stealth Rock and powers up Mewtwo's Fire Blast or Flamethrower with Drought
    • Palkia handles Choice Scarf Kyogre who can revenge kill Mewtwo with Water Spout
    • Wobbuffet aids Mewtwo in setting up and can block Toxic Spikes' effect by Safeguard. Furthermore, it can destroy Choice Scarf wielding Pokemon that can otherwise prove to be somewhat troublesome to Mewtwo
    • Stalling Mewtwo highly appreciates Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Forretress in particular can set up both and Rapid Spin away any Toxic Spikes that hinder Mewtwo's stalling abilities. Giratina-O is also a great partner as it blocks Rapid Spin.
    [Counters]

    • Mewtwo is absurdly difficult to counter due to its bulk, power, and speed
    • Mewtwo can be revenged by Choice Scarf Kyogre and Zekrom. Furthermore, Giratina-O can pick it off at 50% with Shadow Sneak and can survive an unboosted Psycho Break
    • Kyogre can weaken Mewtwo's Fire-type attack through Drizzle, allowing Lugia and Wobbuffet to take care of Mewtwo more easily.
    • Choice Scarf Victini resists Mewtwo's entire moveset and can deal massive damage with Flare Blitz. Victini also handles Stalltwo well due to its immunity to Will-o-Wisp
    • Choice Scarf Jirachi, though fearing Fire Blast or Flamethrower, can launch a quick U-turn against Mewtwo and switching into Giratina-O to take the likely Fire-type attack. Giratina-O can then finish Mewtwo off with Shadow Sneak
    • Ho-oh, Reshiram, and Heatran can beat up Stalltwo due to their immunity to Will-o-Wisp and having access to powerful Fire-type attacks
    • Choice Scarf Heracross can OHKO Mewtwo with Megahorn. It handles the Stalltwo perfectly, but it can not switch into Calm Mind Mewtwo's Psycho Break or Fire Blast/Flamethrower.
    [DREAM WORLD]

    • Mewtwo's Dream World ability, Tension, prevents the opponent from consuming their berries. This can be somewhat helpful for Calm Mind Mewtwo as the usage of surprise resist berries can no longer get in the way of its sweeping rampage. Furthermore, Wobbuffet can not activate its Custap Berry, meaning that a low health Wobbuffet can not quite revenge kill Mewtwo with Destiny Bond. Pressure isn't too helpful for this fast paced set. The stalling set definitely prefers Pressure, however, as it is meant to abuse it.
  2. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    Done with CM set (now called Psycho Killer). Firecape is going to work on stalltwo later since he wanted it badly
  3. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    firecape so slow....

    [Set]
    name: Stalltwo
    move 1: Will-O-Wisp
    move 2: Taunt
    move 3: Recover
    move 4: Light Screen
    item: Leftovers
    evs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe
    nature: Timid



    Set Comments
    • With everyone probably expecting a powerful Life Orb sweeper, Stalltwo can be a nasty suprise
    • Will-O-Wisp cripples any physical attacker
    • Can easily stall out tons of threats
    • Light Screen allows it to take nearly all special attacks
    • Taunt prevents walls from healing or statusing it, while it prevents set up sweepers from setting up
    • Recover provides reliable recovery to keep Mewtwo healthy
    Additional Comments
    • This EV spread allows you to outspeed 252+ Arceus, but you can move more into Defense/Special Defense as you wish
    • Max Speed is an option to tie with opposing Mewtwo
    • There are many different options with the moves, you can mix and max with both Screens as well as Toxic and Will-O-Wisp, the only moves it needs at all times are Taunt and Recover
    Teammates and Counters
    • A cleric can make a great teammate as you will sometimes have to choose between Taunting/statusing/screening/recovering and you may mispredict
    • It still struggles against Kyogre, even with Light Screen, so Palkia can be a great teammate
    • It has troubles with the 145 Speed Bug and Doryuuzu in the sand, so Pokemon that can handle them such as Balloon Heatran are great
    • Ho-Oh and Reshiram laugh at Will-O-Wisp, and completely wall Mewtwo if it uses Will-O-Wisp over Toxic, one again, Palkia can help, but also Tyranitar and Kyogre, but they must watch out for certain attacks
    • If you have Will-O-Wisp, Mewtwo will have trouble with Fire-types, so Kyogre or Palkia can help here
    • Stalltwo works great with Toxic Spikes support to help it wear down foes, but they also hinder it in the sense it is more vunerable to physical attackers
    • Forretress and Pendoraa can lay down Toxic Spikes
    • Entry hazards in general are great for Stalltwo as it will often cause tons of switches
    • Deoxys-S is a good choice for laying down Spikes and Stealth Rock
    • Stalltwo is rendered useless by mischievous heart Taunt, or a faster Pokemon with Taunt, such as Deoxys-S or the Bug with 145 Speed
    All I got for now, you'll probably yell at me on IRC because I forgot something small but whatever :P.
  4. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    I think this is done
  5. JSND

    JSND

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    just saying the problem with PS Mewtwo is the huge number of Physical scarf pokemon in this meta not to mention in the Rain Skarmory can phaze him rather well.(dunno bout the LO set) that being said Preserving groudon could be a high priority when using mewtwo.
  6. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    +1 LO Fire Blast against 252/252+ Skarmory in the rain: 77.8% - 92.2%. Flamethrower in the same conditions: 61.7% - 73.1%. Yeah, Skarmory isn't really doing much. It even has a possibility to be OHKOed by Fire Blast after Stealth Rock..... I don't know what you mean by:
    Because all there is a LO and defensive set, and the defensive set Taunts Skarmory....

    Also, physical common scarfers that can outspeed Mewtwo consist of (I may be missing a few, but emphasis on "common"):

    Garchomp
    Terakion
    Zekrom
    I guess you could consider Palkia/Dialga because they sometimes carry Outrage, but they usually run no Atk EVs when they do so (with scarf, anyways).

    So I don't really see what you mean by a lot either, but, yes, Groudon being kept alive can help with these.
  7. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    For the LO set, I think Lugia in the rain is pretty much a permanent stop, resisting both Psycho Break (With great physical Defense to boot) and Aura Sphere and effectively resisting Fire Blast/Flamethrower as well. Lugia can either just phaze it away, Calm Mind alongside it or Toxic-stall it.

    EDIT:
    Oh, and come on, Mewtwo is far more versatile than just these two sets, right?? Back in DPP, he had nine sets, now we have two. Even if some of them are sub-par, I still think he still has quite a few options up his sleeve that probably shouldn't be relegated to OC:

    -Taunt + Calm Mind - Still allows it to defeat stall a lot easier without getting statused and what not.
    -All out attacker - Basically the Psycho Break set but drop Calm Mind for a coverage move (Basically Ice Beam or in Hail, Blizzard). Mewtwo hits hard enough without a boost.
    -Dual Screen boom - Still the fastest Pokemon who has access to both Screens, boom and Taunt all in one. Who cares if Selfdestruct got nerfed, the point isn't to kill something with Mewtwo but to let something else switch in safely.
  8. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Mewtwo has the stat spread to make good use of Me First. I know that it's a very situational move, but in the right hands, it can be very surprising, and very devastating.
  9. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    In my opinion this is more of a gimmick move, maybe an OC mention, but other than that I don't really think its worth a set.
  10. Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

    Ahhhhhh......Clefable.

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    Oh, I didn't mean to imply that Me First deserves its own set. That would be absurd. But, if your team has the coverage to take away one of Mewtwo's other moves, it's a fun and surprising option that can net a KO or two.
  11. MK Ultra

    MK Ultra BOOGEYMAN
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    I think my LeadTwo set of Ice Beam/Flamethrower/Psycho Break/Aura Sphere works very well. Would it warrant a set/analysis?
  12. drcossack

    drcossack I'm everywhere, you ain't never there

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    What does it do that a non-lead All-out attacking Mewtwo doesn't? With team preview, you can "lead" with 4 attacks Mewtwo anyway.
  13. ZetoTarken

    ZetoTarken

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    It is also 2hko'd by +2 Psycho Break, +1 Ice Beam, +1 Flamethrower in not rain, etc. and fails to 2hko it with Dark Pulse thanks to it being at +1 from Calm Mind. Getting in a CM war is useless since Mewtwo ignores your boosts with Psycho Break.
  14. j99ubers

    j99ubers

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    Could Thunder maybe be given a slash with Fire Blast if you're using Mewtwo in a rain-centric team? Probably not as useful on a CM set but on a four attack set Ice Beam stops Groudon from walling you.
  15. SteveBob

    SteveBob

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    I love this Mewtwo set, I feel that it's worth losing Calm Mind for the incredible coverage those moves give you.

    Now I haven't even done any competitive battling myself so I'm a massive n00b but I like reading discussions like this. Just curious about how much that set relies on Life Orb. Is it required for 1/2 hit KOs on certain things? I've always been more of a Leftovers fan myself.
  16. j99ubers

    j99ubers

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    On a 4 attack set I'm pretty sure Life Orb is required to allow you to muscle past blissey as I'm not sure if you 2HKO Blissey with Leftovers factored in. Does anyone have the calcs for this btw?
  17. ZetoTarken

    ZetoTarken

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    Does 56% min to 4/252 Calm if you're holding lefties. That's a 2hko if I'm correct.
  18. Banryu

    Banryu

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    I can see the all-out attacker being pretty effective, but I have my doubts about the other two. Taunt + CM is going to suffer because it gets really lackluster coverage when running Psycho Break, and if it wants good-enough coverage, it misses out on Psycho Break. :0 I'm not saying Mewtwo wasn't already good without the move, but IMO, it's too good to pass up. Plus, all the new MH Taunters and Magic Coat users are going to make Taunt pretty tough to pull off well. Taunt was mainly for Blissey anyway, and Psycho Break handles her easy.

    As for DS+Boom, I like it more than Taunt+CM, but not enough to warrant its own set, mainly because, like Taunt CM, it has better things it can be doing. I personally would rather use something like Screens + Memento Latios than said Mewtwo after the boom nerf.
  19. MK Ultra

    MK Ultra BOOGEYMAN
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    I haven't done the calcs, but I'm fairly certain LO is necessary for 2HKOs on:

    • Standard Lugia
    • Careful Groudon
    • Modest 4 HP/0 SDef Kyogre
    • Perhaps some Arceus
  20. ZetoTarken

    ZetoTarken

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    You're correct on all but Kyogre who is 2hkod by unboosted Psycho Break unless its extremely physically bulky. You do lose a small chance to 1hko 4/0 Kyogres after SR(guaranteed with SR and 1 layer of spikes)
  21. SteveBob

    SteveBob

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    Interesting, thanks guys.

    Edit: Just had a look at Expert Belt and while it isn't necessary for Kyogre and the 1.2 Boost easily takes care of Groudon it doesn't guarantee the 2 hit on standard Lugia/Giratina when you factor in Leftovers. Shame because it's not a bad alternative but it looks like Life Orb is, indeed, the way to go. Oh and Blissey looks like a pretty simple 2 hit KO but if you were unlucky enough to do min damage twice I don't think it'd be enough without Life Orb if Blissey is running Leftovers so I guess that's another half-reason to use it.

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