Metagame Middle Cup (Combusken Banned)

#51
I want to bump this because Middle Cup is one of my favorite metagames, and I'd hate for it to die from inactivity. So let's bring attention to one of the new Middle Cup Pokemon "Steenee", part of the Tsareena evolution line. I'm gonna be honest, it's pretty terrible in terms of its base stats. But if you feel like being creative and giving yourself a challenge, it's worth a try.

Steenee @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish / Bold Nature (Depending on whether you're using Physical or Special attacks)
- Synthesis
- Play Rough / Dazzling Gleam
- Teeter Dance / Toxic
- Payback / Energy Ball / Leaf Storm / Low Sweep

This was basically the most useful set I could come up with for Steenee. The unfortunately problem is that it has mixed base attacking stats of 40, so it's not gonna be doing damage at all for the most part. It gets access to Synthesis / Teeter Dance which at least gives it a little bit of viability, along with some odd standout moves such as Payback, Acupressure, Aromatherapy, Low Sweep, Light Screen and Reflect. So there's possible other options in there.
In my opinion the set should be Synthesis, Rapid Spin, Toxic, Energy Ball, it probably need Spin to at least have niche and Toxic helps against a lot of things it couldn't do anything otherwise (such as P2), can't touch Steel/Poison types (and can't do even Poison the spinblockers Doublade and Haunter, but at least there are 2 Pokémon who can Spin so if you don't want to get rid of your own hazards can be an option.
 
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#52
In my opinion the set should be Synthesis, Rapid Spin, Toxic/Hidden Power Ground, Energy Ball, it probably need Spin to at least have niche and without HP Ground it can't touch Steel types (and it doesn't have Physical STAB), while Toxic helps against a lot of things it couldn't do anything otherwise (such as P2)
I'm honestly leaning more towards Toxic instead of HP ground. While it won't be able to touch Steel types, the damage that HP Ground could do to the Steel types in the tier is honestly negligible compared to the stalling nature that could be achieved via Toxic / Synthesis recovery, I'm honestly a little upset that it didn't get Giga Drain, because that would have made it a fair amount easier to use.
 
#53
I'm honestly leaning more towards Toxic instead of HP ground. While it won't be able to touch Steel types, the damage that HP Ground could do to the Steel types in the tier is honestly negligible compared to the stalling nature that could be achieved via Toxic / Synthesis recovery, I'm honestly a little upset that it didn't get Giga Drain, because that would have made it a fair amount easier to use.
Yeah actually I calculated stuff and that thing does nothing, it does max 30% in 252 HP / 0 SpD Doublade with Hidden Power
 
#55
Honestly the only reason Energy Ball is on that set is so that it has at least one STAB move and isn't complete taunt bait.
Yes, passive as fuck can't do anything against Spinblockers (can do 0 damage in Haunter and Doublade, can Toxic Lampent and Dusclops), probably if you want something like Spikes Wartortle is by far better, probably if it have a niche it's very low actually
 
#56
Yes, passive as fuck can't do anything against Spinblockers (can do 0 damage in Haunter and Doublade, can Toxic Lampent and Dusclops), probably if you want something like Spikes Wartortle is by far better, probably if it have a niche it's very low actually
Generally I don't lean towards Rapid Spin as I don't usually set my own hazards when playing. Do you have any good Defogger recommendations for Middle Cup? I was thinking of giving Dartrix a try because of its utility.
 
#57
Generally I don't lean towards Rapid Spin as I don't usually set my own hazards when playing. Do you have any good Defogger recommendations for Middle Cup? I was thinking of giving Dartrix a try because of its utility.
Golbat, Togetic and Prinplup are probably the best Defog options actually, Staravia and Vibrava might work as well, I think that's it
Dartrix can be decent, Idk anyway which moves it learn
The other mons that can learn are Nuzleaf (maybe offensive? I don't think so anyway) and Pidgeotto (no)
 
#58
Golbat, Togetic and Prinplup are probably the best Defog options actually, Staravia and Vibrava might work as well, I think that's it
Dartrix can be decent, Idk anyway which moves it learn
The other mons that can learn are Nuzleaf (maybe offensive? I don't think so anyway) and Pidgeotto (no)
What's bad about Pidgeotto? It still gets Heat Wave, Hurricane and overall has somewhat usable stats and a decent movepool. But anyways, onto Dartrix, it actually has a relatively usable movepool, especially on the support side, where it honestly has one of the best supporting movepools in Middle Cup.

Physical attacks: Brave Bird, Frustration, Leaf Blade, Shadow Claw, Steel Wing, Sucker Punch
Special attacks: Energy Ball, Frenzy Plant, Grass Knot, Hidden Power, Ominous Wind, Solar Beam
Support moves: Baton Pass, Confuse Ray, Curse, Defog, Feather Dance, Haze, Light Screen, Nasty Plot, Protect, Rest, Roost, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Swords Dance, Toxic, Work Up
 
#59
What's bad about Pidgeotto? It still gets Heat Wave, Hurricane and overall has somewhat usable stats and a decent movepool. But anyways, onto Dartrix, it actually has a relatively usable movepool, especially on the support side, where it honestly has one of the best supporting movepools in Middle Cup.

Physical attacks: Brave Bird, Frustration, Leaf Blade, Shadow Claw, Steel Wing, Sucker Punch
Special attacks: Energy Ball, Frenzy Plant, Grass Knot, Hidden Power, Ominous Wind, Solar Beam
Support moves: Baton Pass, Confuse Ray, Curse, Defog, Feather Dance, Haze, Light Screen, Nasty Plot, Protect, Rest, Roost, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Swords Dance, Toxic, Work Up
Overshadowed by Staravia, while almost all Pidgeotto's stats are better, Staravia have Intimidate to be a defensive defogger, for an offensive set Staravia have Reckless and better Attack and Speed, Pidgeotto have a cool special movepool? Yes it does, not useful with 50 SpA anyway, if anything Pidgeotto's best thing is probably with Work Up, Hurricane, Heat Wave and Roost, without Defog though (and NO, I don't think it would ever be viable anyway). Dartrix haven't got bad defenses and have reliable recovery, I think a set with SD, Leaf Blade, Sucker Punch and Brave Bird (why it even learn this, Noctowl can't and this can lol) would be better than Defogging, what can this do well over Togetic or Golbat anyway?
 
#60
Overshadowed by Staravia, while almost all Pidgeotto's stats are better, Staravia have Intimidate to be a defensive defogger, for an offensive set Staravia have Reckless and better Attack and Speed, Pidgeotto have a cool special movepool? Yes it does, not useful with 50 SpA anyway, if anything Pidgeotto's best thing is probably with Work Up, Hurricane, Heat Wave and Roost, without Defog though (and NO, I don't think it's good anyway). Dartrix haven't got bad defenses and have reliable recovery, I think a set with SD, Leaf Blade, Sucker Punch and Brave Bird (why it even learn this, Noctowl can't and this can lol) would be better than Defogging, what can this do well over Togetic or Golbat anyway?
In regards to Pidgeotto, its main Attack stat is only 60 anyways, so the downgrade to 50 is worth utilizing the Special Movepool. While I get that Staravia has intimidate, it's not like Staravia's gonna be surviving too many powerful physical attacks. As for Dartrix being used over Togetic or Golbat, I think the attack coverage + wealth of support options and unpredictability gives it an edge over Golbat at the very least, maybe not Togetic though.
 
#61
In regards to Pidgeotto, its main Attack stat is only 60 anyways, so the downgrade to 50 is worth utilizing the Special Movepool. While I get that Staravia has intimidate, it's not like Staravia's gonna be surviving too many powerful physical attacks. As for Dartrix being used over Togetic or Golbat, I think the attack coverage + wealth of support options and unpredictability gives it an edge over Golbat at the very least, maybe not Togetic though.
Staravia outclasses Physical Pidgeotto in every possible way, so yeah...only Special worth but still 50 os weak. While it's true that Intimidate doesn't make Staravia Bulky, Pidgeotto isn't Bulky either, only bulkier than Staravia, and Staravia take phys moves better anyway if not counting Metang (Clear Body), Golbat and Togetic learns Dartrix's options (aside of Haze iirc), Golbat also have Taunt over Dartrix, and while it's true that It have some coverage, Roost/Defog and you have 2 slots, and It can't even properly get past Steel types, while Togetic have Seismic Toss and Fire Blast to help It, while Taunt + Super Fang sounds interessting on Golbat.
 
#62
Staravia outclasses Physical Pidgeotto in every possible way, so yeah...only Special worth but still 50 os weak. While it's true that Intimidate doesn't make Staravia Bulky, Pidgeotto isn't Bulky either, only bulkier than Staravia, and Staravia take phys moves better anyway if not counting Metang (Clear Body), Golbat and Togetic learns Dartrix's options (aside of Haze), Golbat also have Taunt over Dartrix, and while it's true that It have some coverage, Roost/Defog and tou have 2 slots, and It can't even properly get past Steel types, while Togetic have Seismic Toss and Fire Blast to help It, while Taunt + Super Fang sounds interessting on Golbat.
While Dartrix may not be able to handle Steel types like Togetic, and Golbat may have Taunt / Super Fang over Dartrix, keep in mind that Dartrix can handle the following Pokemon that Togetic and Golbat can't: Brionne, Croconaw, Dewott, Marshtomp, Poliwhirl, Prinplup, and Seadra. Not to mention that access to Haze allows it to effectively hamper set up sweepers in a way that neither of the other ones can. You technically don't have to run Defog on every set (although Roost is basically required). Honestly, no-one should ever run Physical Pidgeotto so we definitely agree on that. Metang for example though is one of the reasons that the fire coverage that Heat Wave provides is so necessary, Fire type coverage is really important in Middle Cup.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
#63
While Dartrix may not be able to handle Steel types like Togetic, and Golbat may have Taunt / Super Fang over Dartrix, keep in mind that Dartrix can handle the following Pokemon that Togetic and Golbat can't: Brionne, Croconaw, Dewott, Marshtomp, Poliwhirl, Prinplup, and Seadra. Not to mention that access to Haze allows it to effectively hamper set up sweepers in a way that neither of the other ones can. You technically don't have to run Defog on every set (although Roost is basically required). Honestly, no-one should ever run Physical Pidgeotto so we definitely agree on that. Metang for example though is one of the reasons that the fire coverage that Heat Wave provides is so necessary, Fire type coverage is really important in Middle Cup.
I wouldn't say that Dartrix handles all of those Water-types effectively since all of them can run Ice Beam/ Ice Punch for coverage and potentially outspeed and KO Dartrix.
 
#65
Most of them are outsped and OHKO'd by Dartrix though.
But there are better Pokémon to Defog and better Pokémon to handle Water-types, so it's kinda pointless using Dartrix, I think It would Just be better If used like Decidueye os used in UU, not sure if would be good, but better than Defog, I guess...also if you don't run Defog u Just can go to what I said, It can have another roles, but isn't looking good as a Defogger at all
 
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#66
Middle Cup.png
here's an image I made for the banner.

Please help on the logo. Also you can request the other side where the Pokemon are with the logo. If you make the logo and give the requests, thank you very much.
 
#67
If absolutely needed, I could probably whip up a logo in Photoshop or something when I'm off work.

Anyways, let's hop back on track with Charjabug

Stats: 57 / 82 / 95 / 55 / 75 / 36
Type: Bug / Electric
Notable Usable Moves: Acrobatics, Charge, Crunch, Endure, Iron Defense, Light Screen, Poison Jab, Protect, Rest, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Wild Charge, X-Scissor.

Charjabug is the second stage of Grubbin's evolution line, and one of the new additions to Middle Cup this generation. Honestly, it's not that good, but is still far from the worst MU addition added to the metagame this Generation. With a unique STAB combination that nails Water, Flying, Psychic, Dark, and Grass types for super effective damage, and a unique defensive typing that gives it only two (albeit common) weaknesses in Rock and Fire types, and four useful resistances to Fighting, Steel, Grass, and Electric types, and useful neutrality to Flying and Ground types which Bug and Electric had trouble dealing with respectively, Charjabug was blessed with a unique typing that really works in its favor. Combined with usable 57 / 95 / 75 defensive stats, and an okay 82 Attack stat, with proper support Charjabug can really do some damage. However, Charjabug sorely lacks access to the newly buffed Leech Life which really would have helped its longevity and capitalized on its bulk, not to mention that with Wild Charge and its slow speed it's going to get worn down quickly. Not having access to STAB U-Turn severely hurts it as well. However, play him to his strengths and you'll find that Charjabug can be a very useful anti-meta Pokemon.

Charjabug @ Choice Band
Ability: Battery
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wild Charge
- X-Scissor
- Poison Jab
- Crunch / Volt Swich / Toxic

Wild Charge and X-Scissor are going to be your main STABs of choice, and will severely maim anything that doesn't resist it thanks to Choice Band's power boost. Poison Jab is specifically for all the faeries running around and for the 30% poison chance. The last slot is a toss-up, if you need something to deal with bulkier Ghosts such as Dusclops, run Crunch. If you want to capitalize on Charjabug's slow speed, run Volt Switch.
 
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#68
If absolutely needed, I could probably whip up a logo in Photoshop or something when I'm off work.

Anyways, let's hop back on track with Charjabug

Stats: 57 / 82 / 95 / 55 / 75 / 36
Type: Bug / Electric
Notable Usable Moves: Acrobatics, Charge, Crunch, Endure, Iron Defense, Light Screen, Poison Jab, Protect, Rest, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Wild Charge, X-Scissor.

Charjabug is the second stage of Grubbin's evolution line, and one of the new additions to Middle Cup this generation. Honestly, it's not that good, but is still far from the worst MU addition added to the metagame this Generation. With a unique STAB combination that nails Water, Flying, Psychic, Dark, and Grass types for super effective damage, and a unique defensive typing that gives it only two (albeit common) weaknesses in Rock and Fire types, and four useful resistances to Fighting, Steel, Grass, and Electric types, and useful neutrality to Flying and Ground types which Bug and Electric had trouble dealing with respectively, Charjabug was blessed with a unique typing that really works in its favor. Combined with usable 57 / 95 / 75 defensive stats, and an okay 82 Attack stat, with proper support Charjabug can really do some damage. However, Charjabug sorely lacks access to the newly buffed Leech Life which really would have helped its longevity and capitalized on its bulk, not to mention that with Wild Charge and its slow speed it's going to get worn down quickly. Not having access to STAB U-Turn severely hurts it as well. However, play him to his strengths and you'll find that Charjabug can be a very useful anti-meta Pokemon.

Charjabug @ Choice Band
Ability: Battery
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant
- Wild Charge
- X-Scissor
- Poison Jab
- Crunch / Volt Swich

Wild Charge and X-Scissor are going to be your main STABs of choice, and will severely maim anything that doesn't resist it thanks to Choice Band's power boost. Poison Jab is specifically for all the faeries running around and for the 30% poison chance. The last slot is a toss-up, if you need something to deal with bulkier Ghosts such as Dusclops, run Crunch. If you want to capitalize on Charjabug's slow speed, run Volt Switch.
Since the last 2 moves will almost always be filler, u could slash Toxic over something, useful to cripple things such as P2 and Rhydon and Wild Charge will 2HKO any Fairy-type in the meta (you can OHKO SpD Clefairy with Poison Jab, but I think Toxic might be slashed) also I'd say to put 84 EVs in it's Speed since it will allow Charjabug to outspeed uninvested Rhydon, 2HKOing it after some prior damage.
I agree that it can be a decent attacker. While not that good, can be useful 2HKOing a great part of the meta since it have almost unresisted STABs (damn Hakamo-o), while slow it looks like a decent mon.
 
#69
Since the last 2 moves will almost always be filler, u could slash Toxic over something, useful to cripple things such as P2 and Rhydon and Wild Charge will 2HKO any Fairy-type in the meta (you can OHKO SpD Clefairy with Poison Jab, but I think Toxic might be slashed) also I'd say to put 84 EVs in it's Speed since it will allow Charjabug to outspeed uninvested Rhydon, 2HKOing it after some prior damage.
I agree that it can be a decent attacker. While not that good, can be useful 2HKOing a great part of the meta since it have almost unresisted STABs (damn Hakamo-o), while slow it looks like a decent mon.
Thank you for pointing that out! Edited that in, yeah Hakomo-o has a very unique typing, but it's still a wonderful offensive typing to have and I'm so happy that it has a niche because I honestly like it quite a bit more than its evolution Vikavolt in terms of competitive playability.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
#70
Gonna bump the thread with some cool sets and mons, hopefully this will help revive Middle Cup a bit because this is really a fun tier and it shouldn't die off.

trumbeak.gif

Trumbeak @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Skill Link
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Bullet Seed
- U-turn
- Return / Rock Blast

Trumbeak is probably the best Generation 7 middle evolution Middle Cup got this gen. Being a strong Flying-type that can't be checked by Rhydon thanks to Bullet Seed is a godsend, and while it would normally run a AoA set with EBelt/Firium Z, I actually really like Trumbeak as a Choice Scarf user, as its a pretty damn good revenge killer. With a Choice Scarf equipped, it outspeeds the unboosted metagame, and can outspeed and revenge kill +2 Rhydon (Rock Polish) and +1 DD Fraxure, which are very good attributes for a Scarfer to have in this meta. Trumbeak can also function as a late-game cleaner with its strong STABs once its checks are gone. Another neat attribute Trumbeak has over other Scarf users is in Skill Link, as it allows it to get around Sash Kadabra, who could normally eat a hit with Sash and kill Trumbeak, but now it can't thanks to Bullet Seed breaking the Sash and OHKOing Kadabra afterwards. For the last slot, Return is my preferred option for a secondary STAB that doesn't cause recoil and hits stuff like Electabuzz really hard. Rock Blast is still an option, however, to revenge kill Fire-types like Magmar easier and also hits Togetic for decent damage. Overall, Trumbeak is a really great Choice Scarf user in my opinion because it revenge kills a good chunk of the offensive metagame while also being very strong on it's own, and more people should use it! (Just remember to bring Doublade answers because Trumbeak can't really touch it without Flame Charge!)

gurdurr.gif

Gurdurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Level: 50
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Façade
- Knock Off

Yep, a Flame Orb Guts user is in this metagame. Oh boy. So here's Flame Orb Guts Gurdurr, which is basically a direct upgrade from the Life Orb Gurdurr sets of last gen. With the burn nerf, Gurdurr takes only 6% from burn damage and still gains the Guts boost, turning Gurdurr into an absolutely fearsome wallbreaker. Boosted Facade is incredibly powerful and spammable, and to show how powerful it is, here's some calcs:

252+ Atk Guts Gurdurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togetic: 90-107 (55.9 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Gurdurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Golbat: 102-120 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Yep, Guts Facade cleanly 2HKOs both physically defensive Togetic and Golbat (both decent-ish Gurdurr checks otherwise), which is absolutely insane. Drain Punch is very powerful with the Guts boost as well, smashing through Steel- and Rock-types while also healing Gurdurr back up so he can put more pain on the opponent. Mach Punch is as useful as ever, picking off frailer opponents even easier with the Guts boost. While this Gurdurr would love to use Bulk Up to become an insanely bulky and powerful monster, it has to use Knock Off as otherwise, it is completely walled by the prominent Ghost-types of the tier, mainly Doublade. Although this is a minor setback, Knock Off still is quite powerful, 2HKOing Doublade easily with the Guts boost. Basically, what I'm trying to get at here is that Guts + Flame Orb Gurdurr has literally no safe switch-ins, and the best way to get rid of it is to bombard it with strong attacks to kill it before it maims your entire team with its insanely powerful attacks. (Which is not a super easy thing to do all the time, as Gurdurr is pretty bulky and Drain Punch heals it.) Overall, this Gurdurr set will definitely be it's main set in Gen 7, and is arguably one of the best wallbreakers in Middle Cup, if not the best.

PS: The Speed EVs are to outspeed uninvested base 50s, like Piloswine.

kadabra.gif

Kadabra @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
- Counter

Focus Sash Kadabra is already one of the best checks to set-up sweepers in the tier with its guaranteed Focus Sash, but with the RBY Virtual Console being compatible with Poke Bank, it gained a new toy, as if it needed one in the first place. Counter Kadabra is an incredibly effective blanket check to pretty much any physical attacker in the tier not named Trumbeak, as it can eat the physical hit with the Sash, and with Kadabra's paper-thin Defense, it basically guarantees a kill with Counter. This makes Kadabra an even more effective revenge killer than before, as physical Choice Scarf users such as Fraxure and Monferno can't really attack it anymore unless it's Sash is broken, lest they want a kill from Counter. (In Monferno's case, if Monferno U-turns on Kadabra, leaving it to it's Sash, the Pokémon that comes in next will die to Counter). While there are some counterplay to this set, mostly multi-hit moves like Bullet Seed from Trumbeak or (lol) Dual Chop from Fraxure, it's still a great upgrade to Kadabra's already-amazing Sash set.

There are still some sets and mons I'd like to talk about, so maybe I'll edit them in later, but for now, these are just some mons/sets that I find pretty damn good in the current Middle Cup metagame, and I hope MC becomes more active in the future, as it's a really fun tier to play!
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
#72
I have completed the Speed Tiers! Go check them out, it is also linked in the first and third posts of this thread :3

I will try to get other events and resources out too, to draw a bigger playerbase and such.

Edit: Also if anyone has any banners for the tier, I would be happy to have one :3
Edit 2: I added some Replays to the third post, go check them out to get a feel of the meta in action!

I will also be looking for a third (perhaps fourth in the future) council member to complete the council, as Threw has decided not to rejoin the council. Best wishes to him! If you want to join the council, PM me with reasoning on why you want to join.
 
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#73
View attachment 77379
So me and Miyami~~ were having some battles in Middle Cup today and we discovered a few things. One of these things is that Shadow Tag Gothorita is actually insane. I've been running a CroGoth set and it basically punishes the opponent for using slower passive Pokémon such as Chansey and Marshtomp by coming in (usually through U-Turn or Volt Switch by a mon that is checked by these defensive Pokémon), easily setting up on them, and then eliminating them and breaking down the opposing team, sometimes being able to just sweep thanks to +6 Psyshocks killing everything and it's impenetrable special bulk after Calm Mind. We think this is quite unhealthy as it can make the opposing player just autolose just for having these bulky Pokémon, which is often needed on a MC team due to all the offensive threats around. While you can potentially answer Gothorita after it has trapped something by using a Dark-type or Doublade, or just really strong physically offensive pressure, it still doesn't dismiss the fact that it can eliminate your defensive backbone in one fell swoop, leaving your team open to a myriad of offensive threats. As such, we think a ban on Shadow Tag is needed, as Gothorita clearly isn't broken without it and the ability is the problem due to it being inherently unhealthy in the meta.

Some replays showing Shadow Tag's unhealthiness:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/azure-gen7ubers-115365 (Gothorita easily sets up on Mia's passive team and while it is forced out once by Haze Dusclops, it easily just comes back in and sets up again for the win.)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-526197734 (Gothorita comes in on Marshtomp, eliminates him while setting up, and while Sleep Talk rolls ended her time, she still left Mia's team without a defensive backbone, and making her team weaker to the Electric-types on my team.)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-526202807 (Goth doesn't actually do much here as Marshtomp was already dead, although this does showcase a flaw of Shadow Tag: not being quite as effective versus offensive Pokémon, so you can take that into consideration.)
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-526205581 (The same deal here, but with Gothorita being awake, it's able to more reliably take out the other threats on Mia's team and just sweep due to it's bulk.)

I'd also like to address another topic. As you can see in the last two replays there, me and Miyami were using two non-Middle Cup Pokémon, Castform and Minun. Now, one would ask why? Well, this is because we have an idea that could help improve the meta! Right now, Middle Cup is extremely unbalanced, as you can really only use offense or bulky offense with some pivots due to all the offensive threats around in the meta. It also has a very small number of mons, and other around half of them are even good, making teams not very unique. Me and Miyami thought that maybe adding more Pokémon to the meta would spark more variety in teams, and potentially make the metagame healthier as a result. We decided that perhaps we could take some of the least-used PU mons (not fully-evolved but ones that cannot evolve such as Minun or Dedenne) and put them into Middle Cup and see what would happen. For this session, we decided to test out Castform and Minun, as the latest PU usage stats from ORAS showed them in the bottom 5 of used mons by PU usage. As these replays showed, they both weren't overbearing, as Minun mostly just pivoted around with Volt Switch and Castform died by Thunderbolt from Electabuzz or posed an actual threat to my team with a Z-Rain Dance set, KOing my Marshtomp with Weather Ball and crippling my Golbat with Thunder and paralysis. While these two weren't spectacular, we feel that they could add something to the meta, as Minun is unique in being an Electric-type set-up sweeper with Nasty Plot and a good Speed tier, and Castform has really good coverage and decent power with Weather Ball. While doing this does break the rules of Middle Cup, I think that potentially making the metagame more healthy and unique is a good payoff.
Just going off of this, maybe instead of allowing those 2 specifically, we could possibly allow a certain BST range? I'm not really sure what'd it be, but I'd assume it'd exclude stuff above 415 BST (to exclude Azumarill and friends) from the metagame and include anything around 200 BST (to exclude Wishiwashi and friends). Feel like the inclusion of a good part of Little Cup may not be what we need, but it diversifies the metagame I guess.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
#74
Just going off of this, maybe instead of allowing those 2 specifically, we could possibly allow a certain BST range? I'm not really sure what'd it be, but I'd assume it'd exclude stuff above 415 BST (to exclude Azumarill and friends) from the metagame and include anything around 200 BST (to exclude Wishiwashi and friends). Feel like the inclusion of a good part of Little Cup may not be what we need, but it diversifies the metagame I guess.
Ehhh, that post was a good few months ago and honestly bending the rules of Middle Cup seems too radical even for me xD, I think just having middle evolutions is fine atm, even if it makes the metagame more limited in terms of building at times.