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Mienshao [BW2 Revamp] [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Gary2346, Apr 11, 2013.

  1. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast LOL STAFF FAG
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    Would Regenerator at least be worth an AC mention on the Choice Scarf set? One of the biggest problems with revenge killers like Scarf Terrakion is that they're easier to wear down, which can be delayed with Mienshao's Regenerator (especially with good use of U-Turn).
  2. PK Gaming

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    Regenerator needs to be re-slashed on the Choice Scarf set

    Free healing on a choiced Pokemon is really useful. It basically makes Mienshao immune to hazards (kind of a big deal for a pokemon that's switching in and out of battle a lot), can mitigate the damage from missed HJK's on the switch and its flat out better than regen when you're placed into a situation where you can't sweep with Hi Jump Kick (which is incredible common). The analysis doesn't even mention Reckless's benefits over Regenerator; this isn't UU, you aren't going to 2HKO the entire metagame with HJK alone. Regenerator should be slashed over Reckless.

    I'd cut out all mentions of choiced Mienshao being outclassed by Terrakion. Terrakion does not directly outclass Mienshao in any way, it's wrong to imply otherwise (and its unnecessary padding too).
    It would be better if you said that HJK is a STAB that Mienshao can fall back on, rather than listing a bunch of Pokemon who are weak to Fighting.

    And finally, U-turn shouldn't be the first move listed on the first 2 sets -.-
  3. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Well, I have a lot of play experience with Scarf Mienshao, and it does 2HKO many threats with HJK. Even resists like Latios, Dragonite, and Landorus all threatened to be 2HKOed if they're not at high health (hell, Latios is a 2-shot even at max health). Hippowdon and even Skarmory can't switch into Reckless Meinshao without risking getting knocked out by the second kick (after SR support). The 20% boost really does make a difference in Mienshao's ability to threaten the opponent with its signature move, and I've certainly had plenty of games where Mienshao HJKed its way to victory. Regenerator Miensho simply lacks the power to achieve this.

    Sure slash Regenerator back into the Scarf set, but before Reckless? Nah.
  4. PK Gaming

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    I'm ok with that, just as long as its slashed.
  5. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    A curiosity, but would a Me First mention be worth a mention in OO or even Scarf AC? When this thing was first analyzed when BW came out, it was there to do cool things like catch Outraging Dragons, and seems like it may be a cool niche thing for Scarf revenging. Maybe worth a mention at most.
  6. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    I won't be able to write this up until Monday now due to computer problems. I promise that I will have this all finished no later then Tuesday, as id rather not type this all up on my phone. I apologize for this...
  7. Fille

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    Regen on Shao is worth mentioning I guess, but seeing that it resists Rox, it doesn't really need it. If it's hit it's dead, thats how frail it is. If it misses an HJK, it's also dead :/ Skarm is pretty standard tho, so spikes will be up, but it shouldn't need to switch in too much anyways, unless VoltTurn which definitely needs a pokemon to keep hazards away anyways :S
  8. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Phew, finally done writing this bad boy up.
  9. alexwolf

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    Lord of Bays please wait until this gets its 3rd QC check.
  10. alexwolf

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    You added almost nothing from the things i told you in this post: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4663556&postcount=23

    To start off here is a rewrite of the first part of the overview:

    ''Mienshao has a number of traits that sets itself apart from its main competitor in OU, Terrakion. Practical immunity to passive damage thanks to Regenerator and better wallbreaking abilities thanks to the ability to use special attacks make Mienshao a better dedicated wallbreaker than Terrakion and a perfect weapon to use against defensive teams. Aside from being a better wallbreaker than Terrakion, which is Mienshao's main niche in OU, Mienshao has a few more aces up its sleeve. Thanks to Reckless, Choice Scarf Mienshao is more powerful than Choice Scarf Terrakion and has better cleaning potential, but needs a ton of support, especially to remove Ghost-types which prevent Mienshao from spamming its main STAB, and provides zero defensive synergy for the team. Finally, with access to Regenerator and Baton Pass Mienshao can provide free switches to its teammates with its SubPass set, something that Terrakion can't do.''

    Replace your paragraph with mine and please try to improve the remaining analyses with the help of the comments i gave you.
  11. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Are you kidding me? Can you please maybe re-read the analysis? I looked over it again, and I touched pretty much everything you told me to change. Please tell me exactly what I missed, because I literally can't seem to find anything. I mentioned that Scarf Tar is an amazing partner, removed entry hazard support from the LO set, mentioned what Reckless KOs and 2HKOs over Terrakion, mentioned what KOs Scarf Mienshao achieves with hazard support, mentioned why Kyurem-B is a good partner, implemented your Baton Pass changes, and changed around the checks and counters to what you wanted me to change it.

    I will change the introduction, but saying I didn't implement anything you said is a straight up lie. I might have missed a few things, but it's pretty rude to say something like that when I did indeed change most of what you told me to. Did you skim or actually read it thoroughly? Unless there's some glitch in the analysis. If you want me to, I can individually pull up my changes that went along with your suggestions. Elaborate, or I'm keeping it as is.
  12. alexwolf

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    In the AC of the LO set you nowhere mentioned Scarf Tyranitar, just Tyranitar.

    In the overview you didn't really explain why one should use Mienshao over Terrakion (at least not in a comprehensive way) and you just throwed everything Mienshao had over Terrakion in one sentence.

    You never mentioned those, aside from Celebi, which you didn't specify that it should be the SpD variant.

    After seeing that you didn't implement most of the fixes for the overview and the first set i assumed that the rest of the analyses would be the same. But after reading it i realized that this isn't true, so excuse my about the rest of the analysis, but still the things i told you must be fixed.
  13. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Alright, everything that you wanted changed is now implemented. Thanks.
  14. PK Gaming

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    In the overview, i'd mention that Terrakion's it's higher Speed is largely why people use it over Mienshao.
    Perhaps you could add it in this sentence?

    Choice Scarf Tyranitar is bad at trapping Jellicent due to its comparatively lower damage output. The only Tyranitar that can really trap Jellicent s Choice Band Tyranitar (and it has a ~50% of doing that). You should add Starmie to the list of bulky psychics in the next sentence.

    Otherwise, this analysis is good to go. Good work Gary2346.

    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  15. Gary2346

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    Thanks PK. Ready for GP Checks.
  16. alexwolf

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    The EV spread on the first set should be this one:

    252 Atk / 24 SpA / 232 Spe

    Going with max Speed is completely unnecessary as the only Pokemon that sits on this benchmark is Mienshao itself, which is a very rare sight in OU. On the other hand, here are some of the instances where the extra SpA helps:

    - 4 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 174-205 (43.17 - 50.86%) -- 57.81% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    - 24 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 177-211 (43.92 - 52.35%) -- 79.69% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    - 4 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 291-343 (81.28 - 95.81%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    - 24 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 296-354 (82.68 - 98.88%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    There are more calcs that showcase the usefulness of the extra SpA, but i think those are enough.
  17. Gary2346

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    Thanks alexwolf. I feel dumb because I actually run that same EV spread on one of my teams....but I was wary of changing it. I was hoping QC would bring it up eventually.
  18. Jukain

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    diff (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Mienshao has a number of traits that sets itself apart from its main competitor in OU, Terrakion. PA practical immunity to passive damage thanks to Regenerator and better wallbreaking abilities thanks to the ability to use special attacks make Mienshao a better dedicated wallbreaker than Terrakion and a perfect weapon to use against defensive teams. Aside from being a better wallbreaker than Terrakion, which is Mienshao's main niche in OU, Mienshao has a few more aces tricks? never heard this phrase before up its sleeve. Thanks to Reckless, Choice Scarf Mienshao is more powerful than Choice Scarf Terrakion and has better cleaning potential, but it needs a ton of support, especially to remove Ghost-types, (AC) which prevent Mienshao from spamming its main STAB, and provides zero defensive synergy for the team. Finally, with access to Regenerator and Baton Pass, (AC) Mienshao can provide free switches tofor its teammates with its SubPass set, something that Terrakion can't do.</p>

    <p>Although Mienshao has quite a few appealing attributes, it is not without flaws. Mienshao is extremely frail, and thus cannot take even the weakest of hits that comfortably. This means that Mienshao will always have to come in onmust get a free switch-in to come in, forcing it to beact as more of a hit -(hyphen)and -(hyphen)run attacker. Mienshao's main STAB, Hi Jump Kick, has a nasty side effect, chipping away 50% of its health each time it fails to land. With the prevalence of the move Protect and Ghost-types, (AC) such as Jellicent and Gengar, Mienshao has to be very careful. It also faces slight competition from Terrakion for a team(remove space)slot, (AC) asince they fill similar roles, especially sincenot to mention that Terrakion is faster than Mienshao. Nevertheless, Mienshao is very unique compared to other Fighting-types in the tier,(RC) and can pose a huge threat to unprepared teams.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Hi Jump Kick
    move 2: Grass Knot / Stone Edge
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: U-turn
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 24 SpA / 232 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>If there is one set that really sets Mienshao apart from the other Fighting-types in OU, it would have to be this one. This set takes all of Mienshao's useful traits and mixes them all into one set. Sincgether. Because Mienshao has the ability to abusutilize its Special Attack, this set takes full advantage ofruns special moves that by giving itprovide coverage againston most of its common switch-ins, such as Gliscor, Landorus-T, Jellicent, and Hippowdon. Regenerator is really useful here, as it helps nemitigate Life Orb recoil every time Mienshao switches out. Hi Jump Kick is Mienshao's only STAB move,(RC) and it is put to good use on this set by hitting everything very hard;, (AC) 2HKOing and OHKOing most unresistant foes while decimating Tyranitar, Blissey, and Ferrothorn. Be cautious when using this move when Ghost-types are around, or else Mienshao's health will be instantly be halved by recoil. MAlso make sure to also be wary of using this move against Pokemon that commonly carry Protect, such as Ferrothorn, as this will also activateincur the recoil. The next move is a tough choice between Grass Knot and Stone Edge. Grass Knot is usually preferred because it messes with Mienshao's common counters, (AC) such as Jellicent and physically defensive Hippowdon, both of whoich wall this set quite well. Stone Edge still has its merits against Volcarona and Gyarados though, so it all depends on what threats you need Mienshao to cover. Hidden Power Ice is one of this set's greatest selling points, (AC) asince it can stopKO Gliscor and Landorus-T from completely walling this set,(RC) while also dealing super effective damage to Garchomp, Salamence, and Dragonite. U-turn rounds off the set by givallowing Mienshao to create some much -(hyphen)needed momentum, while als(RC) in addition to having outstanding synergy with Regenerator.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>SincBecause this set depends a lot on Mienshao's special attacks, a Naive nature should always be used to get the best out of both worldoffensive stats. The EV spread is quite self -(hyphen)explanatory. tbh this sentence isn't "necessary" but it's your choice Fake Out is an option for dealing damage right off the bat and picking off weakened foes, but it is pitifully weak, and Mienshao misses the coverage fromprovided by Grass Knot or Stone Edge. Reckless can be used if you want really powerful Hi Jump Kicks, but Regenerator is much more useful, as it nemitigates Life Orb recoil. Partners -(hyphen)wise, Choice Scarf Tyranitar and Scizor comes to mind, (AC) asince they can Pursuit trap Ghost-types relatively easy. Bulky Psychic-types, (AC) such as Celebi, defensive Starmie, and Latias, (AC) are also quite problematic to this set becausince Mienshao has nothing to really hit them hard with, but Tyranitar can solve thatdeal with them quite easily. Choice Scarf Tyranitar also has the ability to outspeed and trap Gengar, Latias, and Latios,(RC) while also bringing in sand for extra residual damage to help Mienshao guarantee a few 2HKOs, most notably on physically defensive Jellicent with Grass Knot after Stealth Rock. Latias and Latios are really nice teammates because thatey can outspeed Keldeo and Terrakion, both of whoich outspeed Mienshao and threaten it. SincBecause Mienshao is so frail, bulky teammates, (AC) such as specially defensive Celebi, Hippowdon, specially defensive Heatran, and Landorus-T, (AC) are great candidates for the job, while alsohoices, having the added bonus of usbeing able to set up Stealth Rock.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: U-turn
    move 2: Hi Jump Kick
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Reckless / Regenerator
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>A Choice Scarf sacrifices Mienshao's ability to switch between moves in order to allow it to become a potent revenge killer. Mienshao's Speed stat combined with a Choice Scarf allows it to outspeed all positive-natured base 100 Speed Pokemon at +1, letting Mienshao revenge kill the likes of Salamence, Haxorus, and Volcarona, (AC) whoich commonly boost their Speed. Ability -(hyphen)wise, Reckless is almost always preferred, as it allows Mienshao's Hi Jump Kick to 2HKO even Skarmory after Stealth Rock, a feat that Choice Scarf Terrakion would only dream of. Regenerator still has its merits though, especially if your team lacks a Rapid Spinn user. Unlike Terrakion, Mienshao has access to U-turn, (AC) which lets it gain much -(hyphen)needed momentum against common switch-ins, (AC) such as Jellicent and Hippowdon, while also dealing a huge chunk to Celebi in the process. Hi Jump Kick hits very hard when boosted by Reckless, and often(remove space)times Mienshao will find itself sweeping with it inat the end of the game, OHKOing pretty much aneverything that's weak to it,(RC) and 2HKOing almost everything else. A few notable 2HKOs that Hi Jump Kick boosted by Reckless achieves are: ones on defensive Skarmory after Stealth Rock damage, offensive Latias, and specially defensive Jirachi. Standard Ferrothorn and Breloom are always OHKOed as well. Stone Edge is very important for Gyarados and Volcarona in particular, both of whoich can wall anyll of Mienshao's other moves, but arthey can be OHKOed by Stone Edge. Hidden Power Ice is Mienshao's hidden weapon against Gliscor and Landorus-T, as theywhich are very common switch-ins against Fighting-types in general. Hidden Power Ice has other uses though, such as OHKOing Dragonite after Stealth Rock and allowing Mienshao to take out Salamence 100% of the time after Stealth Rock, unlike Stone Edge, which misses quite frequently.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Naive nature should always be used on this set since Hidden Power Icebecause Mienshao does not want Hidden Power Ice to be weakened if it were to run Jolly. it's mienshao not the move that cares Grass Knot is still very much viable on this set sincbecause Jellicent and Hippowdon are both very problematic to this set, but it should only be used if you do not need Mienshao to handle Gliscor or Landorus-T. Unlike the Aall-Oout Aattacking set, Choice Scarf Mienshao requires a lot more prediction to use. Due to the prevalence of Jellicent, Gengar, and users of the move Protect, Mienshao has to be very careful when to locking itself into Hi Jump Kick, lest it wants to receive a nasty 50% drop in health due to recoil. To remedy this, Tyranitar and Scizor are stressed even more on this set as partners. Both of them can trap Jellicent and Gengar with Pursuit, allowing Mienshao to use Hi Jump Kick without having to worry about it missing due to these Ghost-types. Not only are Scizor and Tyranitar useful for trapping Ghost-types, but they are also useful infor trapping bulky Psychic-types, (AC) such as Latias and Celebi, both whoich are very problematic for this set. HEntry hazard support is stressed heavily on this set, as it secures a few important 2HKOs, (AC) such as Skarmory and Latias, while also securing OHKOs on Keldeo and Breloom. Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress are all great users of Spikes. Both Kyurem and Kyurem-B are fantastic teammates because their powerful Ice-type STAB lets them deal with Hippowdon and Landorus-T, lettallowing Mienshao to run Grass Knot over Hidden Power Ice if it wants to. overuse of "let" and other verb forms of it</p>



    [SET]
    name: Baton Passer
    move 1: Substitute / Swords Dance
    move 2: Baton Pass
    move 3: Hi Jump Kick
    move 4: Stone Edge
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Mienshao can abusutilize its above -(hyphen)average Speed stat and Regenerator in order to become a great Baton Passer. The main goal of this set is to set up a Substitute or a Swords Dance on a predicted switch,(RC) and then Baton Pass the Substitute or Swords Dance boost to another recipient. SincBecause Mienshao forces a lot of switches, it will find a lot ofnumerous opportunities to set up. Regenerator is always preferred on this set to nemitigate Life Orb recoil, health lost from Substitute, and because Mienshao will be switching in and out quite frequently. The choice between Substitute and Swords Dance depends on your team. If you wish to pass free protection to a sweeper whothat can set up on its own, then Substitute is preferred,; (add semi) however, if something on your team would appreciate a +2 Attack boost, then Swords Dance is obviously the better choice. Baton Pass is a staple on this set, honestly I'd reword this because no duh as it allows Mienshao to pass Substitutes or Swords Dance boosts to otherits teammates. Hi Jump Kick is used to give Mienshao a means of attacking, KOing Tyranitar and Blissey with no effortease. Although this set is meant to support other teammates, Mienshao can still pose a threat behind a Substitute or with a Swords Dance boost if it has to. Stone Edge is useful for all -(hyphen)around great coverage, keeppreventing Volcarona, Gyarados, and Salamence from setting up on Mienshao.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>There really isn't too much more to say about this set, as it is pretty straight(remove space)forward. Mienshao can either pass boosts to other team members,(RC) or choose to stay in and take advantage of the boosts itself. Swords Dance requires more prediction, however, especially if your opponent has a faster check to Mienshao that could keep it from Baton Passing.</p>

    <p>Mienshao's teammates for this set differ depending on what you want Mienshao to be passing. If Substitute is being used, Scarf Tyranitar is one of the best teammates (as always) imo parentheses are needed here, being able to deal with everything that troubles Mienshao due to its andbility to cominge in risk-free. Nasty Plot Celebi also appreciates the free protection that Substitute gives, being able to easily switch-(add space)in on Jellicent and Hippowdon while still keeping its Substitute intact. Kyurem-B is a fantastic teammate if Mienshao runs Substitute due to Kyurem-B's great bulk and useful resistances to Water and Grass, allowing it to keep the Substitute from breaking. This will let Kyurem-B run an extra coverage move if it wants, asince it doeswouldn't have to run Substitute thanks to Mienshao. Calm Mind Latias and Reuniclus are both deadly behind a Substitute, making them both great partners to this set as well. If Mienshao is running Swords Dance, fast physical attackers are obviously preferred. Choice Scarf Tyranitar can safely switch into fast Psychic-types, (AC) such as Latios and Latias, threatening to decimate them with Crunch. I'd add "or trap them with Pursuit" Poison Heal Breloom can easily switch into Scald from Politoed and Jellicent,(RC) while posing an instant offensive threat to the opposing team. Dragon Dance Gyarados, especially offensive variants with Lum Berry, appreciate the boost and can easily take any move that Hippowdon and Jellicent might throw at them,(RC) while easily OHKOing them at +2.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>There are not that many other options for Mienshao, as most of its movepool is quite barrenuseless. A Choice Band can used to power up Hi Jump Kick to even higher levels, but the Life Orb set has similar power, and this set is mostly outclassed by Terrakion anyway. A Bulk Up set sounds tempting, but Mienshao is too frail to take advantage of the Defense boost,(RC) and will find it very hard to safely set(add space)up. An offensive Calm Mind set could work, (AC) seeing as Mienshao has access to Grass Knot, Hidden Power Ice, and Aura Sphere,; (add semi) however, it is somewhat I really wouldn't say somewhat -- it sounds terrible inferior to its other sets, and there are much better users of Calm Mind out there anyway. Rock Slide can be used over Stone Edge on all of its sets if you hate the accuracy of Stone Edge, but the loss in power is easily noticeable. Taunt can help out its Baton Passing set,(RC) but forces it to give up a coveraginge move.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Mienshao is extremely frail, so a single powerful blow can easily take it out Mienshao, even from full health. Anything that can outspeed it has a chance of probably checking it with little to -(hyphen)to-(hyphen)no problem. Gengar can outspeed Mienshao and OHKO with Shadow Ball. Latios and Latias can threaten it with pretty much anyll of their moves, but they cannot reliably switch into Hi Jump Kick. Landorus-T, physically defensive Hippowdon, and Gliscor are all great counters to Choice Scarf Mienshao locked into anything butother than Hidden Power Ice. Celebi can come in on athe Choice Scarf set's Hi Jump Kick, but it has to watch out for U-turn. Jellicent is by far one of Mienshao's greatest counters, asince it can come in on Hi Jump Kick and threaten it with Will-O-Wisp or even Scald. Sableye is arguably even better then Jellicent, asince it fears none of Mienshao's moves and cannot be Pursuit trapped by Tyranitar or Scizor. Starmie can also outpace Mienshao,(RC) and survive a Hi Jump Kick from the Choice Scarf Hi Jump Kickset if need be. Tornadus can revenge kill with Hurricane as long as Mienshao isn't holding a Choice Scarfed.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]

    A couple sentence structure, usage, and Pokegrammar issues, but the biggest issue I saw was since vs. as. The word "since" implies the passage of time, so it should not be used unless this is the case.
  19. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Thanks Jukain. Implemented the corrections.
  20. Jukain

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    remove the additional line break before the third set~
  21. Gary2346

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    Fixed.
  22. Lukehaef23

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    Fake Out on Mienshao is certainly not worthless. If you say this you are obviously not using mienshao right. The best way I have found to utilize is is this set, which functions as a sort of anti-lead/scout set
    Mienshao
    Regenerator
    Life Orb
    252 Atk/252 Spe/4 SpD
    Jolly (Spe, SpA)
    Fake Out
    U-Turn
    Taunt
    High Jump Kick
    This is a very good lead, as you cant just fake out, taunt if you think the other lead will lay rocks, and then u-turn out. After you do this, Regenerator heals the recoil from life orb, and you can bring in mienshao later. Often, high jump kick can be used after fake out and just KO the other pokemon outright. Mienshao is an amazing poke if used right.
  23. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    It's decent in UU, but not OU. In OU it deals pitiful damage to pretty much everything, and gives up a moveslot for something useful like Grass Knot, HP Ice, or Stone Edge. I have used all of these sets extensively, and Fake Out on Mienshao is terrible. I did mention it in the AC, so don't think I didn't mention it at all. Besides, QC agrees that it doesn't even deserve a slash.

    Yeah, no. I've probably used it more then you. I've used Life Orb Mienshao in probably well over 50+ battles, because I love it to death. Fake Out was an incredible waste of a moveslot. In response, I say you're not using Mienshao to its full potential. No further comments from you please, it's no longer in its QC stage so I'm not doing any edits to the sets.
  24. Oglemi

    Oglemi MIEU
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    [Overview]

    <p>Mienshao has a number of traits that set it apart from its main competitor in OU, Terrakion. A what's essentially an immunity to passive damage thanks to Regenerator and better wallbreaking abilities thanks to the ability to use special attacks make Mienshao a better dedicated wallbreaker than Terrakion and a perfect weapon to use against defensive teams. Aside from being a better wallbreaker than Terrakion, which is Mienshao's main niche in OU, Mienshao has a few more aces up its sleeve. Thanks to Reckless, Choice Scarf Mienshao is more powerful than Choice Scarf Terrakion and has better cleaning potential, but it needs a ton of support, especially in the removal of Ghost-types, which prevent Mienshao from spamming its main STAB. Finally, with access to Regenerator and Baton Pass, Mienshao can provide free switches for its teammates with its SubPass set, something that Terrakion can't do.</p>

    <p>Although Mienshao has quite a few appealing attributes, it is not without flaws. Mienshao is extremely frail, and thus cannot take even the weakest of hits comfortably. This means that Mienshao must get a free switch-in to come in, forcing it to act as more of a hit-and-run attacker. Mienshao's main STAB, Hi Jump Kick, has a nasty side effect, chipping away 50% of its health each time it fails to land. With the prevalence of the move Protect and Ghost-types, such as Jellicent and Gengar, Mienshao has to be very careful. It also faces slight competition from Terrakion for a teamslot, as they fill similar roles, not to mention that Terrakion is faster than Mienshao. Nevertheless, Mienshao is very unique compared to other Fighting-types in the tier and can pose a huge threat when used correctly.</p>

    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Hi Jump Kick
    move 2: Grass Knot / Stone Edge
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: U-turn
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 24 SpA / 232 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>If there is one set that really sets Mienshao apart from the other Fighting-types in OU, it would have to be this one. This set takes all of Mienshao's useful traits and mixes them all together. Because Mienshao has the ability to utilize its Special Attack, this set runs special moves that by provide coverage on most of its common switch-ins, particularly Gliscor, Landorus-T, Jellicent, and Hippowdon. Regenerator is really useful here, as it helps mitigate Life Orb recoil every time Mienshao switches out. Hi Jump Kick is Mienshao's only STAB move and it is put to good use on this set by hitting everything very hard, 2HKOing and OHKOing most unresistant foes while decimating Tyranitar, Blissey, and Ferrothorn. Be cautious when using this move when Ghost-types are around, or else Mienshao's health will be instantly halved by recoil. Also make sure to be wary of using this move against Pokemon that commonly carry Protect, such as Ferrothorn, as this will also incur the recoil. The next move is a tough choice between Grass Knot and Stone Edge. Grass Knot is usually preferred because it messes with Mienshao's common counters, such as Jellicent and physically defensive Hippowdon, both of which wall this set quite well. Stone Edge still has its merits against Volcarona and Gyarados though, so it all depends on what threats you need Mienshao to cover. Hidden Power Ice is one of this set's greatest selling points, as it can KO Gliscor and Landorus-T and prevent them from completely walling this set while also dealing super effective damage to Garchomp, Salamence, and Dragonite. U-turn rounds off the set by allowing Mienshao to create some much-needed momentum in addition to having outstanding synergy with Regenerator.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because this set depends a lot on Mienshao's special attacks, a Naive nature should always be used to get the best out of both offensive stats. Fake Out is an option for dealing damage right off the bat and picking off weakened foes, but it is pitifully weak, and Mienshao misses the coverage provided by Grass Knot or Stone Edge. Reckless can be used if you want really powerful Hi Jump Kicks, but Regenerator is much more useful as it mitigates Life Orb recoil. Partner-wise, Choice Scarf Tyranitar and Scizor come to mind, as they can Pursuit trap Ghost-types relatively easy. Bulky Psychic-types, such as Celebi, defensive Starmie, and Latias, are also quite problematic for this set because Mienshao has nothing to really hit them hard with, but Tyranitar can deal with them quite easily. Choice Scarf Tyranitar also has the ability to outspeed and trap Gengar, Latias, and Latios while also bringing in sand for extra residual damage to help Mienshao guarantee a few 2HKOs, most notably on physically defensive Jellicent with Grass Knot after Stealth Rock. Latias and Latios are really nice teammates because they can outspeed Keldeo and Terrakion, both of which outspeed Mienshao and threaten it. Because Mienshao is so frail, bulky teammates, such as specially defensive Celebi, Hippowdon, specially defensive Heatran, and Landorus-T, are choices, having the added bonus of being able to set up Stealth Rock.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: U-turn
    move 2: Hi Jump Kick
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Reckless / Regenerator
    nature: Naive
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>A Choice Scarf sacrifices Mienshao's ability to switch between moves in order to allow it to become a potent revenge killer. Mienshao's Speed stat combined with a Choice Scarf allows it to outspeed all positive-natured base 100 Speed Pokemon at +1, letting Mienshao revenge kill the likes of Salamence, Haxorus, and Volcarona, which commonly boost their Speed. Ability-wise, Reckless is almost always preferred, as it allows Mienshao's Hi Jump Kick to 2HKO even Skarmory after Stealth Rock, a feat that Choice Scarf Terrakion can only dream of. Regenerator still has its merits though, especially if your team lacks a Rapid Spin user. Unlike Terrakion, Mienshao has access to U-turn, which lets it gain much-needed momentum against common switch-ins, such as Jellicent and Hippowdon, while also dealing a huge chunk to Celebi. Hi Jump Kick hits very hard when boosted by Reckless, and oftentimes Mienshao will find itself sweeping with it at the end of the game, OHKOing pretty much everything that's weak to it and 2HKOing almost everything else. A few notable 2HKOs that Hi Jump Kick boosted by Reckless achieves are ones on defensive Skarmory after Stealth Rock damage, offensive Latias, and specially defensive Jirachi. Standard Ferrothorn and Breloom are always OHKOed as well. Stone Edge is very important to OHKO Gyarados and Volcarona in particular, both of which can wall all of Mienshao's other moves, but they can be OHKOed by Stone Edge. Hidden Power Ice is Mienshao's hidden weapon against Gliscor and Landorus-T, which are very common switch-ins against Fighting-types in general. Hidden Power Ice has other uses though, such as OHKOing Dragonite after Stealth Rock and allowing Mienshao to take out Salamence 100% of the time after Stealth Rock, unlike Stone Edge, which misses quite frequently.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Naive nature should always be used on this set because Mienshao does not want Hidden Power Ice to be weakened if it were to run Jolly. it's mienshao not the move that cares Grass Knot is still very much viable on this set because Jellicent and Hippowdon are both very problematic to this set, but it should only be used if you do not need Mienshao to handle Gliscor or Landorus-T. Unlike the all-out attacking set, Choice Scarf Mienshao requires a lot more prediction to use. Due to the prevalence of Jellicent, Gengar, and users of the move Protect, Mienshao has to be very careful when locking itself into Hi Jump Kick, lest it receive a nasty 50% drop in health due to recoil. To remedy this, Tyranitar and Scizor are stressed even more on this set as partners. Both of them can trap Jellicent and Gengar with Pursuit, allowing Mienshao to use Hi Jump Kick without having to worry about it missing due to these Ghost-types. Not only are Scizor and Tyranitar useful for trapping Ghost-types, but they are also useful for trapping bulky Psychic-types, such as Latias and Celebi, which are very problematic for this set. Entry hazard support is stressed heavily on this set, as it secures a few important 2HKOs, such as Skarmory and Latias, while also securing OHKOs on Keldeo and Breloom. Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Forretress are all great users of Spikes. Both Kyurem and Kyurem-B are fantastic teammates because their powerful Ice-type STAB lets them deal with Hippowdon and Landorus-T, allowing Mienshao to run Grass Knot over Hidden Power Ice if you want to.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Substitute / Swords Dance
    move 2: Baton Pass
    move 3: Hi Jump Kick
    move 4: Stone Edge
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Mienshao can utilize its above-average Speed stat and Regenerator in order to become a great Baton Passer. The main goal of this set is to set up a Substitute or a Swords Dance on a predicted switch and then Baton Pass the Substitute or Swords Dance boost to a suitable recipient. Because Mienshao forces a lot of switches, it will find numerous opportunities to set up. Regenerator is always preferred on this set to mitigate Life Orb recoil, health lost from Substitute, and because Mienshao will be switching in and out quite frequently. The choice between Substitute and Swords Dance depends on your team. If you wish to pass free protection to a sweeper that can set up on its own, then Substitute is preferred; however, if something on your team would appreciate a +2 Attack boost, then Swords Dance is obviously the better choice. Hi Jump Kick is used to give Mienshao a means of attacking, KOing Tyranitar and Blissey with ease. Although this set is meant to support other teammates, Mienshao can still pose a threat behind a Substitute or with a Swords Dance boost if it has to. Stone Edge is useful for all-around great coverage, preventing Volcarona, Gyarados, and Salamence from setting up on Mienshao.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>There really isn't too much more to say about this set, as it is pretty straightforward. Mienshao can either pass boosts to other team members or choose to stay in and take advantage of the boosts itself. Swords Dance requires more prediction, however, especially if your opponent has a faster check to Mienshao that could keep it from passing.</p>

    <p>Mienshao's teammates for this set differ depending on what you want Mienshao to be passing. If Substitute is being used, Scarf Tyranitar is one of the best teammates (as always), as it is able to deal with everything that troubles Mienshao due to its ability to come in risk-free. Nasty Plot Celebi also appreciates the free protection that Substitute gives, being able to easily switch in on Jellicent and Hippowdon while still keeping its Substitute intact. Kyurem-B is a fantastic teammate if Mienshao runs Substitute due to Kyurem-B's great bulk and useful resistances to Water and Grass, allowing it to keep the Substitute from breaking. This will let Kyurem-B run an extra coverage move if it wants, as it wouldn't have to run Substitute thanks to Mienshao. Calm Mind Latias and Reuniclus are both deadly behind a Substitute, making them both great partners to this set as well. If Mienshao is running Swords Dance, fast physical attackers are obviously preferred. Choice Scarf Tyranitar can safely switch into fast Psychic-types, (AC) such as Latios and Latias, threatening to decimate them with Crunch or trap them with Pursuit. Poison Heal Breloom can easily switch into Scald from Politoed and Jellicent while posing an instant offensive threat to the opposing team. Dragon Dance Gyarados, especially offensive variants with Lum Berry, appreciate the boost and can easily take any move that Hippowdon and Jellicent might throw at them while easily OHKOing them at +2.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>There are not that many other options for Mienshao, as most of its movepool is quite useless. A Choice Band can used to power up Hi Jump Kick to even higher levels, but the Life Orb set has similar power, and this set is mostly outclassed by Terrakion anyway. A Bulk Up set sounds tempting, but Mienshao is too frail to take advantage of the Defense boost and will find it very hard to safely set up. An offensive Calm Mind set could work, seeing as Mienshao has access to Grass Knot, Hidden Power Ice, and Aura Sphere; however, it is inferior to its other sets, and there are much better users of Calm Mind out there anyway. Rock Slide can be used over Stone Edge on all of its sets if you hate the accuracy of Stone Edge, but the loss in power is easily noticeable. Taunt can help out its Baton Passing set, but it forces it to give up a coverage move.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Mienshao is extremely frail, so a single powerful blow can easily take it out, even from full health. Anything that can outspeed it can probably check it with little-to-no problem. Gengar can outspeed Mienshao and OHKO with Shadow Ball. Latios and Latias can threaten it with pretty much all of their moves, but they cannot reliably switch into Hi Jump Kick. Landorus-T, physically defensive Hippowdon, and Gliscor are all great counters to Choice Scarf Mienshao locked into anything other than Hidden Power Ice. Celebi can come in on the Choice Scarf set's Hi Jump Kick, but it has to watch out for U-turn. Jellicent is by far one of Mienshao's greatest counters, as it can come in on Hi Jump Kick and threaten it with Will-O-Wisp or even Scald. Sableye is arguably even better then Jellicent, as it fears none of Mienshao's moves and cannot be Pursuit trapped by Tyranitar or Scizor. Starmie can also outpace Mienshao and survive a Hi Jump Kick from the Choice Scarf set if need be. Tornadus can revenge kill with Hurricane as long as Mienshao isn't holding a Choice Scarf.</p>


    [gp]2/2[/gp]

    careful when implementing gp checks
  25. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    This is finished. Thanks Oglemi.

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