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Mienshao (Substitute)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Thundur, May 3, 2012.

  1. Thundur

    Thundur

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    435
    [​IMG]
    Mienshao

    Pocket gave me permission to take over this set.

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Hi Jump Kick
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Grass Knot / Baton Pass
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive / Hasty
    evs: 252 Atk / 32 SpA / 224 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set, unlike other Mienshao sets, uses its Special Attack to bypass some of its usual counters, such as Gliscor, Slowbro, and Jellicent. Once these threats have been lured in and KOed, other teammates can find opportunities to break through your opponent's core. Substitute shields Mienshao from debilitating status, such as paralysis and burns, that would otherwise cripple the standard offensive set for the entire duration of the match. Substitute eases prediction by scouting your opponent's switch-in as well, which might save Mienshao from potentially using Hi Jump Kick on a Ghost-type and losing 50% of its health. Substitute also shields Mienshao from common priority, such as Scizor's Bullet Punch, and revenge killing attempts from faster Pokemon. Furthermore, Mienshao can pick up a free Substitute against Tyranitar most of the time and turn into a huge threat to VoltTurn teams, as Mienshao can dent them heavily. Thanks to Regenerator, Mienshao does not have to worry about a shortage of HP to use Substitute. Baton Pass can allow one of your other Pokemon to come in unharmed with momentum on your side; however, Mienshao must forgo a coverage move in Grass Knot.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>224 Speed EVs and a Speed-boosting nature allow Mienshao to outpace base 101 Speed Pokemon. 252 Attack EVs power up Mienshao's STAB attack, Hi Jump Kick, to insane levels. The remaining 32 EVs are dumped into Mienshao's Special Attack stat to boost Hidden Power Ice and Grass Knot. An alternative spread of 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe with a Speed-boosting nature can be used if you want Mienshao to act as a better lure, as the extra Special Attack investment helps when trying to score OHKOs on Pokemon with Grass Knot and Hidden Power Ice. However, Mienshao does lose out on a bit of Speed. As for moveset changes, Stone Edge can be used over Hidden Power Ice to OHKO Volcarona. However, if it forgoes Hidden Power Ice for Stone Edge, Mienshao will lose to Gliscor.</p>

    <p>The best teammates for this set are Pokemon that can deal with Ghost- and Psychic-types, such as and Reuniclus, respectively. Scizor and Tyranitar fill this roll well, as Tyranitar's Dark-type STAB is super effective against both Psychic- and Ghost-types, and Scizor's Bug-type STAB dishes out heavy damage to Psychic-types. In addition, both carry Pursuit in their arsenal, allowing them to trap said threats. Hazards setters are highly appreciated, as their hazards allow Mienshao to seal important OHKOs and 2HKOs on certain Pokemon, such as Skarmory and Hippowdon. Deoxys-D and Azelf are great hazard setters, and they provide good type synergy with Mienshao as well. Spinblockers such as Gengar make great additions to keep those hazards on the field, which ensures that Mienshao does not miss out on any crucial KOs. As for Pokemon that benefit from Mienshao's luring capabilities, double priority Lucario and Terrakion highly appreciate Mienshao's ability to remove their most common counters. In general, any Pokemon that can capitalize on Mienshao's ability to tear holes in teams is a great partner.</p>
  2. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

    Joined:
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    1,303
    Seems like a good set, but i would go with max speed and simply lower its attack EVs (unless you would miss out on some key KOs, but i doubt it), tieing with other Mienshaos and possibly Zoaork seems more important to me, but the more i think about it that might just be preference.

    In the AC mention of Stone Edge mention that it should be used over Grass Knot and not HP Ice as with Stone Edge you still hit Tentacruel and Jellicent for neutral damage.
    I would also remove the mention of Expert Belt since with regenerator Mienshao usually has no problems with LO/Substitute damage and since Substitute is a major selling point of this set faking a choice item isn't really possible most of the time.
  3. Thundur

    Thundur

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    435
    Take it away, GP team.
  4. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    I'm not GP team, but I'll do it!

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Hi Jump Kick
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Grass Knot / Baton Pass
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive / Hasty
    evs: 252 Atk / 32 SpA / 224 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set, unlike other Mienshao sets, uses its Special Attack to bypass some of its usual counters,(Add Comma) such as Gliscor, Slowbro, and Jellicent. Once these threats have been lured in and killed KOed, other teammates can find opportunities to break through your opponent’s core. Substitute shields Mienshao from debilitating statuses, such as paralysis and burns,(Add Comma) that would otherwise cripple the standard offensive set for the entire duration of the match. Substitute eases prediction by scouting your opponent's switch-in as well, saving you from potentially harming yourself Mienshao by using Hi Jump Kick on a Ghost-type and losing 50% of Mienshao’s health. Substitute also shields you from common priority, such as Scizor's Bullet Punch and Pokemon that are faster and can usually revenge kill Mienshao. Not to mention, Mienshao can pick up a free Substitute against Tyranitar most of the time, turning into a huge threat to Volt-Turn teams, as Mienshao can dent them heavily. Thanks to Regenerator, Mienshao does not have to worry about a shortage of HP to make Substitutes. Baton Pass can be used to effectively use the SubPass strategy, allowing one of your other Pokemon to come in unharmed with momentum on your side, however you lose a coverage move in Grass Knot.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>224 Speed EVs along with a + positive Speed nature are used to outspeed base 101s (Landorus) and below. 252 Attack EVs power up Mienshao's STAB move attack, Hi Jump Kick, to insane levels. The remaining 32 EVs are dumped into Mienshao’s Special Attack stat to boost Hidden Power Ice and Grass Knot. An alternative spread of 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe with a + positive Speed nature can be used if you want Mienshao to act as a better lure, as the extra Special Attack investment helps when trying to score OHKOs on Pokemon with Grass Knot and Hidden Power Ice, although you do lose out on a bit of Speed. As for moveset changes, Stone Edge can be used over Hidden Power Ice to OHKO Volcorona. However, with Stone Edge over Hidden Power Ice, you do lose to Gliscor.</p>

    <p>The best teammates for this set are Pokemon that can deal with Ghost-types not named Jellicent and Psychic-types such as Reuniclus that keep Mienshao in check. Scizor and Tyranitar fill this roll well, as Tyranitar's Dark-type STAB is super-effective against both Psychic-types and Ghost-types, and Scizor's Bug-type STAB dishes out heavy damage to Psychic-types. Not to mention, both carry Pursuit in their arsenal, allowing them to trap said threats. Hazards setters are highly appreciated, as their hazards allow Mienshao to seal important OHKOs and 2HKOs on certain Pokemon such as Skarmory and Hippowdon. Deoxys-D and Azelf are great hazard setters, as and they provide good type synergy as well. Spinblockers such as Gengar make great additions to keep those hazards on the field, making sure Mienshao is not missing out on any crucial KOs. As for Pokemon that benefit from Mienshao’s luring capabilities, Double Priority Lucario and Terrakion highly appreciate Mienshao ridding of their most common counters. In general, any Pokemon that appreciates Mienshao's ability to tear holes in teams is a great partner.</p>
  5. Naix

    Naix

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    Amateur GP check.
    Show Hide
  6. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    RMT Co-Leader

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    Substitute also shields you(Mienshao) from common priority, such as Scizor's Bullet Punch and Pokemon that are faster and can usually revenge kill Mienshao.

    Not to mention, Mienshao can pick up a free Substitute against Tyranitar most of the time, turning into a huge threat to Volt-Turn(VoltTurn) teams, as Mienshao can dent them heavily.

    Thanks to Regenerator, Mienshao does not have to worry about a shortage of HP to make(use) Substitutes(Substitute).

    Baton Pass can be used to effectively use the SubPass strategy, allowing one of your other Pokemon to come in unharmed with momentum on your side,(;) however you(Mienshao) lose(s) a coverage move in Grass Knot.

    224 Speed EVs along with a + positive Speed nature are used to outspeed base 101s (Landorus) and below. (224 Speed EVs and a Speed-enhancing nature allow Mienshao to outpace base 101 Speed Pokemon)

    An alternative spread of 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe with a + positiveSpeed(-enhancing) nature can be used if you want Mienshao to act as a better lure, as the extra Special Attack investment helps when trying to score OHKOs on Pokemon with Grass Knot and Hidden Power Ice, although you(Mienshao) do(es) lose out on a bit of Speed.

    As for moveset changes, Stone Edge can be used over Hidden Power Ice to OHKO Volcorona. However, with Stone Edge over Hidden Power Ice, you(Mienshao) do(es) lose to Gliscor.

    The best teammates for this set are Pokemon that can deal with Ghost-types not named Jellicent and Psychic-types such as Reuniclus that keep Mienshao in check. (Why not Jellicent?)

    Scizor and Tyranitar fill this roll well, as Tyranitar's Dark-type STAB is super-(delete the hyphen)effective against both Psychic-types and Ghost-types, and Scizor's Bug-type STAB dishes out heavy damage to Psychic-types.

    Spinblockers such as Gengar make great additions to keep those hazards on the field, making sure Mienshao is not missing(does not miss) out on any crucial KOs.

    As for Pokemon that benefit from Mienshao’s luring capabilities, double priority Lucario and Terrakion highly appreciate Mienshao ridding of their most common counters.

    ---

    There were many consistency issues that I would like you to look over, as they can be prevented in future analyses from you. Also, change all of your apostrophes to the non curly kind, as those are the ones we use onsite.

    Implement TrollFreak's changes and add these to them.

    [​IMG]
    GP 1/2
  7. TrollFreak

    TrollFreak (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ (╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,249
    Harsha you lazy fuck, guess I gotta do it huh

    C/P (open)
    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Hi Jump Kick
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Grass Knot / Baton Pass
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive / Hasty
    evs: 252 Atk / 32 SpA / 224 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set, unlike other Mienshao sets, uses its Special Attack to bypass some of its usual counters
    , such as Gliscor, Slowbro, and Jellicent. Once these threats have been lured in andKOed, other teammates can find opportunities to break through your opponent’s core. Substitute shields Mienshao from debilitating status, such as paralysis and burns, that would otherwise cripple the standard offensive set for the entire duration of the match. Substitute eases prediction by scouting your opponent's switch-in as well, saving you from potentially harming Mienshao by using Hi Jump Kick on a Ghost-type and losing 50% of Mienshao’s health.Substitute also shields Mienshao from common priority, such as Scizor's Bullet Punch and Pokemon that are faster and can usually revenge kill Mienshao. Not to mention, Mienshao can pick up a free Substitute against Tyranitar most of the time, turning into a huge threat to VoltTurn teams, as Mienshao can dent them heavily. Thanks to Regenerator, Mienshao does not have to worry about a shortage of HP to use Substitute. Baton Pass can be used to effectively use the SubPass strategy, allowing one of your other Pokemon to come in unharmed with momentum on your side; however Mienshao loses a coverage move in Grass Knot.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p> 224 Speed EVs and a Speed-enhancing nature allow Mienshao to outpace base 101 Speed Pokemon. 252 Attack EVs power up Mienshao
    's STAB attack, Hi Jump Kick, to insane levels. The remaining 32 EVs are dumped into Mienshao’s Special Attack stat to boost Hidden Power Ice and Grass Knot. An alternative spread of 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe with a Speed-enhancing nature can be used if you want Mienshao to act as a better lure, as the extra Special Attack investment helps when trying to score OHKOs on Pokemon with Grass Knot and Hidden Power Ice, although Mienshao does lose out on a bit of Speed. As for moveset changes, Stone Edge can be used over Hidden Power Ice to OHKO Volcorona. However, with Stone Edge over Hidden Power Ice, Mienshao does lose to Gliscor.</p>

    <p> The best teammates for this set are Pokemon that can deal with Ghost-types not named Jellicent and Psychic-types such as Reuniclus that keep Mienshao in check. (Why not Jellicent?)Scizor and Tyranitar fill this roll well, as Tyranitar
    's Dark-type STAB is supereffective against both Psychic-types and Ghost-types, and Scizor's Bug-type STAB dishes out heavy damage to Psychic-types. Not to mention, both carry Pursuit in their arsenal, allowing them to trap said threats. Hazards setters are highly appreciated, as their hazards allow Mienshao to seal important OHKOs and 2HKOs on certain Pokemon such as Skarmory and Hippowdon. Deoxys-D and Azelf are great hazard setters, and they provide good type synergy as well. Spinblockers such as Gengar make great additions to keep those hazards on the field, making sure Mienshao does not miss out on any crucial KOs. As for Pokemon that benefit from Mienshao’s luring capabilities, double priority Lucario and Terrakion highly appreciate Mienshao ridding of their most common counters. In general, any Pokemon that appreciates Mienshao's ability to tear holes in teams is a great partner.</p>


    Also, don't forget

  8. Thundur

    Thundur

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    435
    Done.

    EDIT: As for Jellicent, it is because Mienshao already takes care of it. I guess I could reword that to make it less confusing.
  9. Redew

    Redew Play Star Wars: The Old Republic with me! (PM me)
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

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    placeholder for amcheck

    Show Hide
    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Hi Jump Kick
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Grass Knot / Baton Pass
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive / Hasty
    evs: 252 Atk / 32 SpA / 224 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set, unlike other Mienshao sets, uses its Special Attack to bypass some of its usual counters, such as Gliscor, Slowbro, and Jellicent. Once these threats have been lured in and[add space]KOed, other teammates can find opportunities to break through your opponent’s core. Substitute shields Mienshao from debilitating status, such as paralysis and burns, that would otherwise cripple the standard offensive set for the entire duration of the match. Substitute eases prediction by scouting your opponent's switch-in as well, saving you from potentially harming Mienshao by using Hi Jump Kick on a Ghost-type and losing 50% of Mienshao’s health.[add space]Substitute also shields Mienshao from common priority, such as Scizor's Bullet Punch and Pokemon that are faster and can usually revenge kill Mienshao. Not to mention, Mienshao can pick up a free Substitute against Tyranitar most of the time, turning into a huge threat to VoltTurn teams, as Mienshao can dent them heavily. Thanks to Regenerator, Mienshao does not have to worry about a shortage of HP to use Substitute. Baton Pass can be used to effectively use the SubPass strategy, allowing one of your other Pokemon to come in unharmed with momentum on your side; however, [add comma] Mienshao loses a coverage move in Grass Knot.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>[remove space]224 Speed EVs and a Speed-enhancing nature allow Mienshao to outpace base 101 Speed Pokemon. 252 Attack EVs power up Mienshao's STAB attack, Hi Jump Kick, to insane levels. The remaining 32 EVs are dumped into Mienshao’s Special Attack stat to boost Hidden Power Ice and Grass Knot. An alternative spread of 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe with a Speed-enhancing nature can be used if you want Mienshao to act as a better lure, as the extra Special Attack investment helps when trying to score OHKOs on Pokemon with Grass Knot and Hidden Power Ice, although Mienshao does lose out on a bit of Speed. As for moveset changes, Stone Edge can be used over Hidden Power Ice to OHKO Volcorona. However, with Stone Edge over Hidden Power Ice, Mienshao does lose to Gliscor.</p>

    <p>[remove space]The best teammates for this set are Pokemon that can deal with Ghost-types that Mienshao does not handle well and Psychic-types such as Reuniclus that keep Mienshao in check. Scizor and Tyranitar fill this roll well, as Tyranitar 's Dark-type STAB is super[add space]effective against both Psychic-types and Ghost-types, and Scizor's Bug-type STAB dishes out heavy damage to Psychic-types. Not to mention, both carry Pursuit in their arsenal, allowing them to trap said threats. Hazards setters are highly appreciated, as their hazards allow Mienshao to seal important OHKOs and 2HKOs on certain Pokemon such as Skarmory and Hippowdon. Deoxys-D and Azelf are great hazard setters, and they provide good type synergy as well. Spinblockers such as Gengar make great additions to keep those hazards on the field, making sure Mienshao does not miss out on any crucial KOs. As for Pokemon that benefit from Mienshao’s luring capabilities, double priority Lucario and Terrakion highly appreciate Mienshao ridding of their most common counters. In general, any Pokemon that appreciates Mienshao's ability to tear holes in teams is a great partner.</p>
  10. Thundur

    Thundur

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    Aug 5, 2011
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    Can I get the final check on this?
  11. sirndpt

    sirndpt
    is an Artist Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    c/p + notes (open)
    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Hi Jump Kick
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Grass Knot / Baton Pass
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Naive / Hasty
    evs: 252 Atk / 32 SpA / 224 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set, unlike other Mienshao sets, uses its Special Attack to bypass some of its usual counters, such as Gliscor, Slowbro, and Jellicent. Once these threats have been lured in and KOed, other teammates can find opportunities to break through your opponent's core. Substitute shields Mienshao from debilitating status, such as paralysis and burns, that would otherwise cripple the standard offensive set for the entire duration of the match. Substitute eases prediction by scouting your opponent's switch-in as well, which might save Mienshao from potentially using Hi Jump Kick on a Ghost-type and losing 50% of its health. Substitute also shields Mienshao from common priority, such as Scizor's Bullet Punch, and revenge killing attempts from faster Pokemon. Furthermore, Mienshao can pick up a free Substitute against Tyranitar most of the time and turn into a huge threat to VoltTurn teams, as Mienshao can dent them heavily. Thanks to Regenerator, Mienshao does not have to worry about a shortage of HP to use Substitute. Baton Pass can allow one of your other Pokemon to come in unharmed with momentum on your side; however, Mienshao must forgo a coverage move in Grass Knot.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>224 Speed EVs and a Speed-boosting nature allow Mienshao to outpace base 101 Speed Pokemon. 252 Attack EVs power up Mienshao's STAB attack, Hi Jump Kick, to insane levels. The remaining 32 EVs are dumped into Mienshao's Special Attack stat to boost Hidden Power Ice and Grass Knot. An alternative spread of 252 Atk / 80 SpA / 176 Spe with a Speed-boosting nature can be used if you want Mienshao to act as a better lure, as the extra Special Attack investment helps when trying to score OHKOs on Pokemon with Grass Knot and Hidden Power Ice. However, Mienshao does lose out on a bit of Speed. As for moveset changes, Stone Edge can be used over Hidden Power Ice to OHKO Volcarona. However, if it forgoes Hidden Power Ice for Stone Edge, Mienshao will lose to Gliscor.</p>

    <p>The best teammates for this set are Pokemon that can deal with Ghost- and Psychic-types, such as (who?) and Reuniclus, respectively. Scizor and Tyranitar fill this roll well, as Tyranitar's Dark-type STAB is super effective against both Psychic- and Ghost-types, and Scizor's Bug-type STAB dishes out heavy damage to Psychic-types. In addition, both carry Pursuit in their arsenal, allowing them to trap said threats. Hazards setters are highly appreciated, as their hazards allow Mienshao to seal important OHKOs and 2HKOs on certain Pokemon, such as Skarmory and Hippowdon. Deoxys-D and Azelf are great hazard setters, and they provide good type synergy with Mienshao as well. Spinblockers such as Gengar make great additions to keep those hazards on the field, which ensures that Mienshao does not miss out on any crucial KOs. As for Pokemon that benefit from Mienshao's luring capabilities, double priority Lucario and Terrakion highly appreciate Mienshao's ability to remove their most common counters. In general, any Pokemon that can capitalize on Mienshao's ability to tear holes in teams is a great partner.</p>


    note that "not to mention" can't be used to start a sentence the way "furthermore" / "additionally" / "moreover" etc can

    it should be used sort of as follows:

    Earthquake can't OHKO Pichu, not to mention Pikachu

    (okay terrible example, but you get the idea!)

    [​IMG]

    gp approved 2/2
  12. Thundur

    Thundur

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    435
    Okay, this is done. As for the Ghost-types Mienshao handles, I was talking about Jellicent. I guess that is not needed, though.
  13. Solace

    Solace some legends are told some turn to dust or to gold
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    uploaded

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