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Mienshao

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by ooh_shiny, Jul 27, 2012.

  1. ooh_shiny

    ooh_shiny

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    Mienshao
    [​IMG]
    Type: Fighting
    Stats: 65/ 125/ 60/ 95/ 60/ 105


    Mienshao now makes its debut in UU as one of the best leads. It sports a very good base 125 attack stat and 105 speed allowing it to outspeed many common threats in UU such as Flygon, Zapdos, Victini, Shaymin. With the advent of BW2, Mienshao got Reckless which adds another very good ability. The biggest downside to using Mienshao is that he is frail.

    Sets:

    Scout
    Jolly/Naive
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Regenerator/ Reckless
    Evs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
    Moves~
    -Fake Out
    -Stone Edge/ Hidden Power Ice
    -Hi Jump Kick
    -U Turn

    Fake Out helps to get some damage on other mons. Stone Edge is the preferred option to hit Zapdos and Chandelure hard, the purpose HP ice has is for gligar but U Turn can switch out of there. Regenerator helps against Life Orb recoil but now that Reckless is out Hi Jump Kick gets a 20 percent boost if more power is needed.

    Choiced
    Jolly/ Naive
    Item: Choice Band/ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Reckless/ Regenerator
    Evs: 252 Atk/ 6 SpD/ 252 Spe
    Moves~
    -Aerial Ace/ Hidden Power Ice
    -Stone Edge
    -Hi Jump Kick
    -U Turn

    Mienshao's speed and attack stat is what makes it a great choice user. Moveset is pretty standard, but does the job well.

    Substitute
    Naive
    Item: Life Orb/ Leftovers
    Ability: Reckless
    Evs: 252 Atk/ 4 SpA/ 252 Spe
    Moves~
    -Substitute
    -Stone Edge
    -Hi Jump Kick
    -Hidden Power Ice

    This set is to ease prediction if your opponent carries a ghost type to make mienshao fall when using HJK. Also, it helps against blocking status.
  2. PDC

    PDC bitch please, you must have a mental disease
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    Mienshao is truly fantastic, I have been currently running the All Out Attacker set paired with Raikou, LO Zapdos, or Specs Kingdra. The amazing thing about Mienshao is that although he did not shine at all in OU, but in UU he can really abuse his above average attack and very solid speed. Regenerator cures one of the things that typically gets other scouters in trouble, which is hazards. This gives Mienshao at least a better defense against them, and typically keeps at full health when only Stealth Rock is on the field if played correctly.

    Just a note, Fake Out is not a good move at all, much overshadowed by Hidden Power Ice.
  3. Frozen Fate

    Frozen Fate

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    I like MienShao, admittedly I personally don't like the scout as it's never worked for me and I think scouts are horrible anyway (Ambipom).

    The CB set is very cool in my eyes as Regenerator lets you brush off entry hazards and come in time after time to cause grief and unlike Heracross you can manhandle Gilgar with HPIce.

    Regenerator > Reckless, in a metagame dominated by hazards that 33% recovery is absolutely awesome and Reckless only affect HJK which already has sky-high power anyway.
  4. Twins

    Twins

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    Never use Reckless Mienshao. It infinitely pales in comparison to Regenerator, which completely makes up for Mienshao's lack of bulk, allows it to continually rack up free damage and momentum with Fake Out+U-Turn, and generally makes it an awesome pokemon.

    The sets need some serious work too. Having used Mienshao in UU for a few months in the Beta server, I have come to the conclusion that the Scarf set works the best in the UU metagame, as it checks the all too prevalent scarfers like Flygon and Darmanitan running around the tier. Nothing outspeeds it, and it lasts the entire game and is useful throughout the match if used correctly.

    So yeah, separate the scarf and band sets, because they play and work completely differently, and give more analysis. Also, you should slash in Aerial Ace and Knock Off in as options over HP Ice (which is only used to 2HKO Gligar).
  5. Boltaway

    Boltaway

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    I'm going to go ahead and jump on the Regenerator > Reckless bandwagon. Even if it's more power, you only have Hi Jump Kick to abuse, which is pretty pointless to forego recovery for just one move. Personally, I prefer a Scout set just because I play cautiously, even as I realize a Scarfed set is better since it allows Mienshao to outspeed most anything, whereas Life Orb Mienshao's frailty allows it to easily be disposed of.

    I'm running right now in UU this:

    Mienshao @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Acrobatics
    - U-turn / Hi Jump Kick
    - Substitute

    Not anything horribly serious lol, but it does have quite some power. At +2, he has a 96.09% chance to 2HKO Defensive Gligar, guaranteed with Stealth Rocks. Obviously I'm still testing it out, although I think it works more as a "look at me I'm so creative!" kind of set, rather than anything which should be standard. Of the few Acrobatics users in UU, Mienshao has the highest base attack (tying with Azelf, who has better things to do), although Crobat gets STAB. Also, it'd be very smart to have Dual Screens when running such a set.
  6. reachzero

    reachzero the pastor of disaster
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    Posting to note that Fake Out is indeed bad. Like, REALLY bad. Substitute/Baton Pass and Hidden Power Ice are both vastly superior sets.
  7. Zarco

    Zarco

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    Here's an option over fake out- Taunt. Yep. Unexpected, neuters walls like Dusclops or Suicune before using regenerator to heal their attacks. Also stops recovery to wear down some walls and stops hazards to support something like zapdos.
  8. Aurora

    Aurora
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    Yeah, Fake Out is dreadful. No STAB, and no sort of ability or anything to boost its power. Stick with a Choiced or Substitute set.

    I like the idea of Taunt, though - stops Calm Mind users from setting up, stops Roosters like Zapdos, and so on and so forth.
  9. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
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    Is Fake Out really worth it, other than as a worse / last ditch Quick Attack sort of move? Whenever I battle someone who uses it, I always imagine them at the other end going "HA HA! ILL USE FAKE OUT AND YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING" and i'm like "w/e i've got a ghost / rock / steel type in now"

    Mienshao is totally a decent pokemon and U-Turn and Regenerator go together like toast and butter but maybe users should be throwing STABs out a bit more?
  10. Zarco

    Zarco

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    How do you guys feel about drain punch or aura sphere in that 4th slot? It's more reliable, one heals and the other hits physical walls harder, and both don't risk protect or ghost switchins. Haven't tried it but I've seen drain punch once or twice on the ladder.
  11. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Personally I think if you want to go as an all out attacker the best set to use is:

    [​IMG]
    Mienshao (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Stone Edge
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - U-turn

    Mienshao pretty much has everything it needs with this set. HJK is of course poweful STAB, while Stone Edge hits the Flyers such as Crobat or Zapdos. U-turn will give allow Mienshao to keep momentum while hitting Slowbro and Hidden Power Ice will prevent Gligar from being a problem. Fake Out is truly a terrible move on it, and outside of Normal-types or LC Pokemon nothing should be using it. Hell, even with STAB it's not that great. (looking at you Ambipom) Seriously though, just stack some hazards and watch Mienshao destroy pretty much anything that wants to come in, physically defensive Zapdos is taken down by a HJK followed by a Stone Edge after Stealth Rock, Gligar is taken down by a HJK followed by an HP Ice after Stealth Rock, and even Slowbro is taking 50% from just Hi Jump Kick followed up by a U-turn. Mienshao is a serious contender in this metagame and is something that every team must look out for.
  12. Venomous Woe

    Venomous Woe

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    I see no problem with using Drain Punch. I myself have used it on Mienshao, albeit in OU, and it does go well with Regenerator.

    Aura Sphere is kind of odd, but maybe it could work with some gimmick Specs set. Which, admittedly, I want to try. :P

    What? His Special Attack is base 95, which isn't that bad. Sure his special movepool leaves something to be desired, but you can always just hack together a set with Grass Knot, Aura Sphere, U-Turn, and HP Ice. But like I said, it's a gimmick. A mixed attacking set would probably do better.
  13. DetroitLolcat

    DetroitLolcat Dual Wielder
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    This is precisely why Drain Punch does NOT go well on Mienshao. Mienshao is a Pokemon that absolutely relies on high-damage attacks and Regenerator. Mienshao is not bulky and does not want to outlast the opponent by draining 18% of their health with a Drain Punch only to take 80% from any reasonably powered STAB attack. Mienshao wants Hi Jump Kick because it can Regenerate off the Life Orb recoil and the Recoil if Mienshao misses and somehow ends up with more than 0% of its health.

    Hi Jump Kick's Base Power, adjusted for accuracy, is 117. Drain Punch's is 75. Drain Punch will not even OHKO opponents if it hits super-effectively, and with Mienshao's absolutely pathetic 65/60/60 Defenses, that means Mienshao's not going to take hits well. Regenerator is great because it lets Mienshao take a Scald or Surf, retaliate with Hi Jump Kick, and then hightail it out of the battle with U-Turn or a switch and healing 33% of its health for doing nothing. Drain Punch's benefit is that it gives Mienshao 15-20% of its health back, over half of which will be lost to Life Orb recoil in the first place. Mienshao forfeits 36% of Hi Jump Kick's power (again adjusted for accuracy) in order to gain a marginal amount of health back, so Drain Punch is absolutely useless. If you're looking for a good Pokemon to use Drain Punch on, try Scrafty. It has the bulk to take hits and recover decent amounts with the move.

    Aura Sphere is also a bad move on Mienshao, simply because it's not a strong attack and Pokemon like Porygon2 and Snorlax can take Aura Spheres. Aura Sphere has 90 Base Power coming off of a Base 95 attacking stat. Meanwhile, Hi Jump Kick has well over 100 Base Power and it's coming off of a fierce 125 Base Attack. Think of it like this: Would you rather hit with less force than a Gliscor Earthquake or hit with more force than Blaziken's Hi Jump Kick?

    Yeah, Hi Jump Kick is better. Make that Mienshao's only Fighting move. In fact, that set posted about three posts above mine might just be Catshao's best set. So use that.

    Also, if you use Ambipom on your team, try replacing it with Mienshao for 3 or 4 battles. And don't use Fake Out on Mienshao either. Fake Out is a pretty lousy move, and it's even worse with Life Orb draining 10% of your health just to do 15% to an opponent. Mienshao is a stronger Ambipom that beats Steels and has one of the 10 best abilities in the game. Try this guy out.
  14. Zarco

    Zarco

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    The point is that it only needs 3 moves to function (stone edge, HJK, U-turn), so you can augment it with another STAB if you want. HJK is risky against things that carry protect and when your opponent has a ghost, so that often makes going for HJK on that Umbreon a bad idea. Drain punch can be used to scout the switch-in in a way, and then take the 2HKO with one of your other moves. Also, if you can KO something with drain punch (I'm sure there are many things like this, and more if you factor in things getting worn down over the match) why would you use HJK in that circumstance?

    I'm not saying it's the best option. Your team might like taunt, or HP ice, or grass knot, or even fake out more than a second STAB. I'm just saying there's reason to test it being a second STAB. (And if you look at Mienfoo it sometimes packs this dual STAB in LC)
  15. hilarious

    hilarious

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    Drain Punch makes sense but don't, as you have said, replace HJK with it. I never used Mienshao like that before but a Darmanitan swept me once because I was planning to let it kill itself with recoil by Flare Blitz (it was scarfed) and as I believe it was my opponents last threat to me it would have been as easy end game for me. It instead just swept me with Fire Punch lol which I was definitely not expecting. Clearly if you are very Gligar and Flygon (HJK does plenty still) weak you want to use HP Ice on Mienshao but the fouth move doesn't really add much to Mienshao regardless.

    I would stay away from Taunt though unless you have a real need for it since most SR setters might decide its not worth eating a HJK to the face to set up SR and they will just whop you with an OHKO after you Taunt.

    Fake Out is extremely mediocre on Mienshao but more than once I lost to a Mienshao only because it had Fake Out so in my experience its not complete trash. I think however you should not be spamming it early game for "free damage" since its screaming for Cofagrigus to set up and sweep you. If you need a revenge killer just making Mienshao scarfed can be way more effective.
  16. LordAlpaca

    LordAlpaca

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    The great thing about Mienshao is that you can chuck it onto just about any team that needs a fighting type or quick check to something, and it can nearly always synergise with the team and is up there with Crobat in terms of how much momentum it gains. I agree with just about everyone that fake out is a terribad move on Mienshao, as not only is it outclassed and has little power, but it basically means the strategy is hitting something with a weak fake out and running away, leaving something else at the opponents mercy (which is exactly why Ambipom sucks). IMO HP ice is usually superior to stone edge, as it provides similiar coverage but allows you to breeze past physical walls.
  17. Jelandee

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    Yes, I agree that fake out is one of the worst moves you can put on Mienshao, considering the fact that it's very, very predictable once it's used, and people just don't seem to get that. It adds no coverage whatsover and just scores "free damage" on the opponent, but due to how predictable it is, it usually scores no damage or resisted damage, and basically a free switch in for a ghost, rock, or steel type to do whatever it wants. In addition, Midnshao should get the most amount of coverage it can get to cover more threats.
  18. Cheatingtaco

    Cheatingtaco

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    Fake out can be good, considering the fact that it can flinch some setup pokemon. Of course, it can't be spammed, which is why it sucks.
  19. SpareAacount

    SpareAacount

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    Thing is, its pitifully weak coming from Mienshao, because its not STAB and all. It provides no real good coverage for Mienshao, and generally other moves are better for Mienshao. Also, its not really about spamming Fake Out, its just that it blantantly sucks on a Pokemon like Mienshao, who wants coverage, not some weak move that flinches the opponent.
  20. PTJon7

    PTJon7

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    Yea Mienshao should always have HP Ice over Fake Out. Mienshao is pretty much the only Fighting type that actually has the capability to OHKO Gligar, which is huge.
  21. TPO3

    TPO3 Never practice; Always perform.

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    Just thought it'd be worth mentioning that Aerial Ace is kind of cool to use on the scarfed set, because it makes Mienshao a much better check for Heracross. I'm kind of shocked it hasn't been mentioned already. I believe it's normally used over HP Ice, if you elect to use it. Of the things you hit with HP Ice, Flygon takes heavy damage and Nidoking is almost 2HKO'd. Both of these two are for sure OHKO'd and 2HKO'd respectively if you use reckless. HP Ice only hits Nidoqueen very slightly harder. The only thing you'd be missing out on really is Gligar, so it's really a choice between hitting either Heracross and Gligar.
  22. Cheatingtaco

    Cheatingtaco

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    A choice band or Life orb would amp the power up to 60...
    I think the time for Technician Mienshaos to start being whipped out as a hidden ability. Reducing the IV stat to give it a power 60 HP Ice + Technician would give it the single most powerful HP possible.

    Breloom does it better, though
  23. Ernesto

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    Not that it matters since Loom is OU, but

    4 SpA Life Orb Technician Breloom Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 213-255 (63.77 - 76.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    4 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 239-286 (71.55 - 85.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    So no, Breloom wouldn't do better against Gligar (also why Choice Band with Hidden Power? lol). It has a mediocre Special Attack stat in comparison to Shao's passable one, and using a 90 BP move doesn't help its case.

    Imo, Hidden Power [Ice] on Shao only works on the all-out attacker set, the Scarf set would be better off with either Aerial Ace or Drain Punch. The thing is, while you /can/ 2HKO Gligar, you're locked into a move that can be setup bait without even getting a kill, and considering Hi Jump Kick hits Flygon harder even without Reckless...
  24. Explorer

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    Mienshao is a beautiful Pokemon, and it has its niches among the other Fighting types in UU, namely the base 105 speed, good mixed offensive stats (don't use Baton Pass), and of course Regenerator. I find it useful that it outspeeds Mew and CB Flygon.

    As part of a UU Research week, I've also been playing around with a special set without Calm Mind that has had a great surprise factor and a lot of power (albeit less than the standard physical sets). Should I post it here?
  25. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    Mienshao is my favorite fighting type of Gen V and I remember it'd days in OU. Nowadays I use him in both tiers and I have to say he's a complete monster. In UU especially I run the Scarf set or the LO set, which wreck so much of UU. I agree that Fake out is crap, and I personally run HP ice on the LO set over Fake out. I feel that since it's such a versatile pokemin and serves as a great all out attacker or great revenge killer, it is a #1 threat in the UU metagame.
    I've been toying around with a CB Reckless Mienshao set to abuse HJK s power, and I paired him with a pursuit trapping Snorlax, and it functioned well, with Mienshao luring in Ghosts to trap with Snorlax. Once the ghosts are gone, I spam HJK and it hurts like bitch. I'll try to post up some calcs later.

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