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Mienshao

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Not Scicky, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. Ryanide

    Ryanide

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    Ignoring the fact that I could barely read that...

    Kojondo shouldn't run mixed offenses unless he's using Cheer Up. You're wasting 125 base attack, and that's why people go with hi jump kick. Because it really hits hard.
  2. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    I've been using this set as a lead/scout

    Kojondo @ Life Orb
    EVs: 252 Atk/6 Def/252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Regenerate

    ~ Fake Out
    ~ Low Kick
    ~ Stone Edge
    ~ U-turn

    Fake Out breaks Focus Sashes and Sturdy and Low Kick does nearly as much damage as Hi Jump Kick to things you would want to use it on (Tyranitar, Natorei) and is a lot less risky. Stone Edge is for Flying-types and Shanderaa. You can easily KO any Shanderaa that's not Scarfed since it has less Speed. It also works great against a lot of popular leads like Dragonite and the MH Genies since it easily OHKOs them.

    U-turn is really to do some damage to your counter when it comes in, since Kojondo outspeeds a lot of Pokemon that come in on it. It can actually do a decent amount of damage, even to Pokemon who resist it. Regeneration allow Kojondo to stick around for a long time, even if entry hazards are on the field and Sandstorm is up.

    Many times I've brought Kojondo in on something that's been hit by Toxic and used Fake Out to stop it for the turn and have Toxic take it out. It also helps against fast Pokemon that only have a little bit of HP left like a weak Doryuuzu or Ononokusu.

    To everyone who says that Kojondo is frail, at one point mine took a Scarf Shanderaa's Flamethrower and KO'd it back with Stone Edge. Life Orb recoil took it out at the end of the turn, but taking out Shanderaa really helped in that match.
  3. Morm

    Morm

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    There are better revenge killers out there. 80/80/80 is better than what this guy, but I suppose if you're desperate for a scout and like a kitten (?) with sleeves that are too long then sweet! I just don't understand, perhaps.
  4. UnholyCrab1

    UnholyCrab1

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    Granted that Kojondo's physical attack is substantially higher, but 95 special attack and STAB Aura Sphere shouldn't be entirely neglected.
  5. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    A surprise Cheer Up set can be of great use with Aura Sphere/Stone Edge/U-Turn or Baton Pass

    similiar to the Sub-Baton Pass set, but you also function as a Pseudo-Sweeper. If the opp brings in a counter, simply Baton Pass the boosts off.
  6. Arch

    Arch

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    I had been trying out a lead Kojondo to some moderate success. It's essentially DDR's set but with Hi Jump Kick.

    The only problem I find is that bulky pokemon love to switch in on his generally mediocre Fake Out. Standard DD'ing Mence's get destroyed by that sick Stone Edge cominhg off a base 125 attack, but Bulky variants can set up a Dragon Dance and begin a sweep.

    Anything with a high defense can set up very easily on the lead set. Alot of such pokemon that switch in on him get 2HKO'd however. I've been considering maybe putting a Focus Sash on him. When the pokemon switches in, Fake Out won't be doing alot. However, the turn the bulky thing tries to set up, Kojondo can hit him with one attack. The next turn, he can absorb the boosted hit, and KO the pokemon back.

    If anyone's on right now, can you test out a Focus Sash on DDR's set? I don't have access to PO right now. :3
  7. Game Fusion Master

    Game Fusion Master

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    um focus blast hits almost as hard with no drawbacks so focus blast would be better
  8. Headache

    Headache

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    except, lower accuracy, lower power, coming off a lower special attack stat
  9. jchen

    jchen

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    70% accuracy is a HUGE drawback >.> plus High Jump kick hits MUCH harder on things with equal defense and special defense because its base attack is so much higher. please learn game mechanics before posting, you cant simply compare 120 BP focus blast to 130 BP HJK. also with focus blast you have to either split EV's, a stupid idea, or run only +4spatk, which isnt really that scary.
    Focus blast might score an additional 10-15% vs physical walls that invest entirely in def, maybe a 252/252 impish skarm/hippow, but apart from that its pretty useless and will leave you open to being walled by anything with decent Sp.def
  10. joo

    joo

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    I caught this guy's pre-evo and it had HJK. when i missed it always reduced my hp (considering full) to 50%. but i have no idea if this has "Super Fang" effects or always reduces the current HP by 50% of max HP. would be nice a confirmation.
  11. Game Fusion Master

    Game Fusion Master

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    the only thing i said was no drawbacks not that it had better accuracy plus im probably going 2 use aura sphere it cant miss i might use hjk if i had a wide lens or something but that about it its a great move pobably the bestfighting move its just the miss recoil that ruins all that potential heres another set that could work
    kojondo
    item wide lens
    nature adamant
    moves
    hjk
    aura sphere/drain punch
    stone edge
    bulk up
    this set could probably wipe the floor with just about anything pretty good mixed sweeper drain punch could also work instead of aura sphere but does less damage
  12. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    This was just posted in the Research thread which is good news for Kojondo, since it won't automatically KO itself, and means that something very important for EV spreads. Never under any circumstances run 4 EVs on HJK Kojondo. 4 HP EVs gives it 272 HP, which means that it will KO itself if it misses twice with HJK. You really shouldn't be using 4 HP EVs on any other Kojondo either, because it means you'll take more damage from SR, Spikes, and Sandstorm/Hail.
  13. Ryanide

    Ryanide

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    Drain punch is physical while aura sphere is special, so drain punch is still going to do more damage unless you're focussing on special attack (which would be silly, as all your other moves are physical)

    It's pointless to have two different fighting moves on your set, even though drain punch has an interesting utility. It would be better to go with U-turn since you will safely recover HP when you switch out anyway.

    Also Kojondo isn't defensively sound enough to really bother with Bulk up. Floatsel can get away with it because he has better than average HP. It can work, but I think swords dance or even cheer up would be better.
  14. Game Fusion Master

    Game Fusion Master

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    yes but since this poke is pure fighting then it be best 2 use 2 fighting moves so it can get 2 stab
  15. Nanoswine

    Nanoswine

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    I am considering changing my sig.

    To anyone who wants to use wide lens, 90 accuracy is pretty damn nice. A lot of physical attackers use Stone Edge which has 80 accuracy and they aren't all running wide lens. And don't herpa derp damage if it misses, that's a decent tradeoff for a 130 BP move.
  16. Game Fusion Master

    Game Fusion Master

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    yes but with 130 bp with no drawbacks would make it the most useful move in the game i think not to mention im running stone edge 2 so it be double the usefulness
  17. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    Hi Jump Kick hits you half of your maximum HP if it misses, no matter what you use it on. This means that you will only lose 1/6 of your HP if you miss and immediately switch out due to Regeneration. I think I'm still going to use Low Kick on my Fake Out lead but if I ran a Scarf set, I'd definitely go with HJK and Regeneration for the extra power, since I don't have LO recoil to worry about as well.
  18. R.B.G.

    R.B.G.

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    I run this thing as a lead personally.

    Gigaisu is extremely common, being the best Pokemon to naturally learn Stealth Rock in Generation 5. With a decent SpA stat, Kojondo can also pack HP Ghost/Dark to deal with all the trappers, or HP Ice to deal with Hippowdon (who is probably the most overused lead along with Tyranitar these days).

    Kojondo @ Life Orb
    Regeneration
    Hi Jump Kick
    U-Turn
    Hidden Power Ice
    Taunt/Fake Out
  19. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    Yeah I'm running a similar set to that but I'm using Fake Out/Low Kick/Stone Edge/U-turn. Low Kick hits all the Pokemon I want to hit with it nearly as hard as Hi Jump Kick and I won't lose half my health when it misses (Burunkeru is the number one switchin for this thing). I don't really need Taunt because Fake Out+Low Kick takes care of Gigaiasu, I'd rather try to 2HKO Hippowdon leads with Low Kick than prevent SR, and most other Pokemon will just attack Kojondo outright. Stone Edge hits Fliers and Ghosts hard (especially Shanderaa) and hits a lot of common leads SE.
  20. R.B.G.

    R.B.G.

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    I was running HP Dark for a while to hit Shanderaa and other ghost switch-ins hard and than U-Turn after I outspeed. I think it would be worth a slash in some cases if you're good with prediction, or just really paranoid.
  21. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    Actually, against a Pokemon with equal Defenses, a neutral Stone Edge will do 9.82% more damage than an SE HP Dark on 252 Atk/4 SpAtk/252 Spe Kojondo. HP Dark will obviously hit the Ghost/Ground robot harder, but I haven't seen it much and being able to take out things like Salamence, Gyarados, and Urugamosu has been great.
  22. Zephiel

    Zephiel

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    I have no idea if this has been posted earlier and I'm too lazy to check, so:

    Kojondo (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Regeneration
    EVs: 212 Atk / 44 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Hasty (+Spe, -Def)
    - U-turn
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Stone Edge
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Regeneration heals Life Orb and Stealth Rock / Spikes recoil. 44 SpA kills Garchomp for sure after SR. U-turn spam is amazing in general with Regeneration.

    Edit: Just looked up, but this isn't a lead.
  23. Sol64

    Sol64

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    I just wanted to see if this set was viable:

    Kojondo @ Life Orb
    Ability: Regeneration
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp.Atk)
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Stone Edge
    - U-Turn
    - Ankle sweep

    You basically have your moves there but you have ankle sweep instead of fake out which loses it's scouting properties by about half.

    You can still scout a little but the trick with this set is that you ankle sweep on the switch and lower their speed then you have the choice whether to keep on attacking or U-turn your way out should the situation is not to your liking and the added hp is also nice from regeneration which should compensate from life orb damage on not very effective moves should you have the need to U-turn.
  24. bludhoundz

    bludhoundz

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    I've been running a Lead Kojondo posted earlier in the thread - max speed max attack, focus sash uturn/fake out/taunt/hjk, and it works really well

    I'd say that HJK is by far the least useful move in the set - fake out is good for priority and taunt with 105 base speed prevents so many things from setting up, and with a sash you can afford to take a hit. I've actually U-turned this guy back up to full HP as well, since he can just come in, fake out and U-turn pretty successfully against most mons thanks to the troll 97/98/99/101 base speed tiers.
  25. Green Mage

    Green Mage

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    This is the set I run (ran) on PO and it worked just as well as I thought it would. The second I saw Ankle Sweep on this guy, I immediately connected it to U-Turn. Lowering their speed takes so much pressure off this frail bastard. The only question is the Stone Edge slot, because ghost switch-ins are so predictable due to Hi-Jump Kick's reputation. You end up killing so many ghosts with Payback that you'll want to change it's name to Egon-do, and it's not like you can hit them with Ankle Sweep.

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