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Millenium Kitchenware- An OU Rain RMT

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Terria, Aug 19, 2012.

  1. Terria

    Terria

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    Introduction:

    Hello, my name is Terria and this is my first RMT. I'm otherwisely known under the handle 'Yugi' or 'a slender man' on Pokemon Showdown.

    First of, note that I’m going to be informal for fluid reading. This means that opinion and personal evaluation might be scattered throughout the RMT in order to give you the idea of how this team works, as well as the process of making it.
    However, for those who want the bare bones, all relevant information about the team is in Bold.

    Foreword:


    To be honest, I didn’t really have any sort of goal in making this- I was pretty demoralized after failing time and time again with teams which sand stalled, etc, and I just wanted a team that I could be comfortable with.

    I am a sucker for pressure teams. I love pressuring people. Teams with great offensive presences which force switches/deal a crippling amount of damage, teams with a heavy amount of hazard and stall damage, Trick room- these appeal to me. I usually start with something that I notice the metagame is generally threatened by. However, in doing so, I’ve always made it a point to try something new along the way- surprise is sometimes half the battle, after all.

    At this time, I realized Gravity was pretty cool (re. Gravity Starmie) and decided to try it out. I started with sand. Infuriatingly, it didn’t work. So I moved onto Rain Gravity since 100% Hydro pump and hurricane sounded appealing even in neutral weather. At this point, I knew there were a few abusers, but I simply couldn’t get it right- and then I discovered the synergy of Metagross, Dragonite, and Starmie) in the Creative Cores thread, and I instantly took to it, eventually dropping Gravity altogether.

    Therefore, without further ado, I present the team:

    Do not underestimate the Power of the Millenium Utensil
    [​IMG]


    I named the team after random key items that some members of the Yugi-tachi have, in homage of the great underestimated kitchenware that just might have things to do with the translation train wreck that is the Hong Kong Yugioh Subs. In hindsight, I probably should have themed it after cutlery but I can’t be bothered. Oh well. But onto the analysis:

    The team at a glance:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    As you can tell from the lineup, this is a standard rain team. Rain is the weather I’m most comfortable with, along with Trick Room, because I’ve used it the most since DPPT, and even through RSE (although I wasn’t playing competitively at that time). One of the things I like about rain is the versatility it provides because of the sheer amount of pokemon that can be used. I do miss fire sometimes, though.

    At a closer look, the team immediately appears to have both defensive and offensive characteristics, so it’s bulky offense. However, unlike any of my other teams, this isn’t a team based on eliminating key counters to open a path for a single sweeper to eat through the opponent. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I realized that I couldn’t play like this because I keep making wrong switches and dying. A lot. Either that, or my team simply couldn’t continue a sweep till all the opponents were dead, especially with the introduction of more scarfers and revengers than ever due to the Therians. The issue, it seemed, was powerful attacks that eventually built up on me due to the sheer amount of pokemon that could now throw them around.

    Therefore, I decided to play on that- the focus of this team is on strong, varied attacks that wear down the opponent team, followed by strong priority moves to finish off the remaining pokemon. Thus, the point of this team is beatdown- to deal damage, and also make sure that there are no safe switches for the opponent to take without incurring damage.

    Teambuilding Process:

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    In detail:

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    M. World Figurine (Politoed) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4Def
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power Grass
    - Toxic/Perish Song

    The first member of the team is Politoed, as with all standard rain teams. Chaos (from the nuzlocke forums) introduced me to the set of Ice beam-Scald-Toxic-Protect, which in conjunction with Ferrothorn, racks up damage fairly quickly. For a while, that was the set I used, because it worked so well I didn’t notice any issues. Lacerta then commented that I played my Politoed ‘too conservatively’, which made me realize I had forsaken a set that would solve a lot of my issues in one- Specs Politoed. Aside from also working with the theme of Beatdown and generally being more effective than stalling, nothing is going to like taking an unresisted Hydro Pump from Politoed if it’s carrying specs (I still can't believe Chansey takes 57%...) - this especially helps with the weather war. Likewise, it tends to force predictable switches once people know that it’s specs, which Tornadus has a lot of fun with.

    I am thinking about running Encore or Toxic, but so far Perish Song seems like the best option, since it stops CM sweeps in general.


    Politoed is named after Ryou Bakura/Dark Bakura's Monster World game, essentially a more restricted version of D&D with actual physical markers and a gameboard. It kind of reminds me chess pieces, somehow, and Politoed is just like one of the many pieces to a strategy that that you'll see around.

    [​IMG]

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    Capsule Monster (Rotom-Wash) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Trick
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Ice]/Thunder



    Rotom-W is the best pivot I have ever used since Genesect and Thundurus-therian in being a general nuisance, hands down. Problem with Physical sweepers? Run Will-O-the-Wisp. Problems with waters? Volt Switch and Thunder. Need a bulky rain abuser? Pain Split. Wall? Trick. It threatens a lot of mons, and when in doubt, Volt Switching is always an option for flexibility. My only complaint is that it lacks bulk and recovery, so I also have to be careful when playing around with it. However, its versatility makes it the best leading option for me most of the time.

    Rotom-W is the third member of the damage-dealing trio, replacing Starmie, and beings valuable Electric and Water STABs to the table. Resists generally take around or less than half-damage to Hydro pump if it is played well. It is, however, the weakest member of the trio and still outsped by other scarfers- but good luck switching into it.

    I’m thinking about switching Hidden Power Ice for Thunder- in fact, I’m almost sure, since it does nearly the same damage as Hidden Power Ice to Hydreigon and Most grass walls aren't getting significantly dented by it anyway, which is admittedly what I’m using it for. Doing so completely eliminates problems with Rest Vaporeon and the like.

    Rotom-W is named after Mokuba, whose item is Capsule Monsters - the game he’s supposed to be the reigning champion of. My mind declared that the name somehow fits Rotom-W in aesthetics and refuses to believe otherwise, but I can’t figure out quite why. Oh well. On another note- it’s a pun. Pokemon is technically alternatively called Pocket monsters, but it can also be interpreted as Capsule Monsters, the initial name for it.

    [​IMG]

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    Nightmare Wheel (Ferrothorn) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect/Thunder Wave
    - Gyro Ball
    - Stealth Rock




    Ferrothorn is a stopgap pokemon that I usually slap onto all my teams, just like Rotom-W. This is for one and only one reason- It’s bloody impossible to kill in rain- at least, in one hit. It also provides valuable resistances for the rest of the team, such as grass and the like. This means that it can cause all sorts of wonky shenanigans specifically but not limited to: Paralyzing vital sweepers with Thunder Wave, sapping health with leech seed, and setting up vital hazards.
    In this case, I’m running a Seed-Protect set, which generally causes much rage and residual damage from switches in order to shake off Leech Seed- residual damage that eventually allows the rest of my team to pick off the rest of their pokemon. Gyro Ball does quite a bit to sweepers that intend on setting up that don’t resist it. I don’t have Power Whip, since someone (I think Violatic?) mentioned that Gastrodon is not going to live 1v1 against Leech Seed and Protect anyway, so I don’t need to run Power Whip. Ferrothorn is valuable for sweepers who think they can get away with attacking it, since a lot of residue damage accumulates in between Iron Barbs, Rocky Helmet, Leech Seed and Protect. It’s also hilarious to use on Genesect, who can’t survive more than three encounters when it tries to use U-turn. The great thing about Ferrothorn is that whenever it’s forced to die, it leaves an opening for any other pokemon- Tornadus and Dragonite in particular to wreck havoc.

    I’m contemplating on changing Protect to Thunder Wave, Toxic, and in particular Power Whip, since I don’t need to Toxicstall anymore because Politoed doesn’t have Toxic anymore. Rocky Helmet is also still in testing, so if Ferrothorn really can’t seem to survive, because it’s now pretty much the only bulky staller left since Politoed was converted, I’ll drop it in favour of Leftovers.

    Nightmare Wheel is based off one of Malik (Actually Yami Marik’s) cards, supposedly. I know Malik’s not one of Yugi-tachi, but eh. Basically Nightmare Wheel is a torture wheel that traps the opponent’s monster. Once a turn, it revolves once, torturing and violating the opponent’s lifepoints directly for every turn his monster remains on the field. Which is kind of exactly what Ferrothorn does.

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    BEWD Jet (Tornadus-Therian) @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - Superpower
    - Substitute
    - Bulk Up


    … Do I even need to explain this pokemon? This is Tornadus-Therian, otherwisely known as almost Rain Team Staple Number Two aside from Politoed. The reason for that is simple: a great STAB, decent offenses, amazing speed, and Regenerator. Tornadus’ primary role is to function as a speedy sweeper. I’m using acrobatics because everyone expects the incoming Tornadus in rain to be Hurricane, and usually bring in a special wall that then gets pummeled by Acrobatics instead. Another bonus is that I don’t have to resort to Focus blast misses. Tornadus is the pair pokemon to Ferrothorn that resists fighting attacks. I’m currently using Bulk Up Tornadus, which helps against anything not named Skarmory, Forretress or roarmons who think it’s a great idea to set up hazards on it. In addition, Bulk up+ Sub+ Acrobatics Tornadus usually allows me to bluff sun teams with Hurricane Tornadus- when that happens, I can usually take out their Heatran almost straightaway and call the game, unless I’m being stupid for some awkward reason. (Misplay against Stallion’s Claydol, I’m looking at you. I don’t think I’ll ever forgive myself for that one.) Otherwise, Substitute generally ensures that I will at least be able to get off one attack onto the opponent.

    Tornadus-T is named after the Blue-Eyes White Dragon Jet that Kaiba uses because he has enough money to make one. Despite the ridiculous part about it being a jet shaped like a FREAKIN’ DRAGON, it’s pretty distinctive, extrudes power and is associated with wind, which is pretty much sums up Tornadus-T.

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    Friendship Train (Metagross) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Meteor Mash
    - Bullet Punch
    - Hammer Arm
    - Earthquake/Zen Headbutt

    Metagross has always been a favourite of mine since Dppt, in which I used the agiligross set- but I never found a chance to fit it in. It’s frail defenses, lack of recovery and ability to OHKO or at least cripple always put it at the back of my mind for an optimal sweeper. Lucario could do it better. Mew could do it better. Jirachi. All three usually offered better synergy.

    Ah yeah. Of course, Choice Band Metagross. Myself, remember the time Fireburn scrapped your entire rain team with nothing but hammer arm and ridiculous wrecking balls- ahem, I mean, meteors. That could definitely do damage. In fact, good damage to a lot of things.

    Show Hide


    Perfect.

    … Snarking aside, Metagross’s role in the team is designated heavy hitter- It’s one of the three that cut open enough holes for the opponent team to get overwhelmed. I have to play carefully with it since it can’t take all that much, but it gets a lot of opportunities to come in and deal a world of hurt. Earthquake is for problems that I noticed I had with Jirachi. Despite that, it’s not an OHKO, but it’s usually enough to cripple it. It is a priority user along with Dragonite, and thus also helps with cleanup if required. A cool bonus is that Metagross’s Clear Body doesn’t allow it to get affected by intimidate- which means that any attack boosts gotten from Meteor Mash can’t be reduced by anything short of a burn.

    I’m contemplating Zen Headbutt as it is now better than Earthquake because Politoed can handle Jirachi, but Thunderpunch helps with the only bulky waters that can stop it- Vaporeon and Gyarados. If Rotom-W gets Thunder, the need for Thunderpunch is eliminated.

    The nickname is themed after Anzu/Tea, which has the chosen item of none other than FRIENDSHIP. Yes, I know that’s not really an item. In any other case I would have used Happy Lover, but it would be ridiculously inappropriate. It’s a train because FRIENDSHIP is serious business as YGO proclaims and because it hits like one.
    Besides, no other name quite inspires the image of speedy steel behemoths, copious amounts of pain, and love and delightful happiness like THE FRIENDSHIP TRAIN does.


    Also, trucks are overrated; Trains are where it is at.

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    Baby Dragon (Dragonite) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Rash Nature
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Aqua Tail
    - Hurricane
    - Roost


    And finally, Dragonite. It was pretty much in the same situation for me as non-CB Metagross when I started using it, except for the fact it actually had the offensive powess to crack holes in the other team. It did well as a DDnite most of the time on other rain teams, but I realized after a while that it didn’t cut it either- everyone knew and were carrying counters to it, and eventually the risk overcame the reward because its sweep was going to get cut off all the time. I’d also used Mixnite before, and felt it didn’t have enough power, somehow. In this case, however, I had good offensive teammates, so I placed it on the team. The set is a standard Rain Abuse Dragonite, which makes it one of the trio of heavy-hitters, and weakens the opponent enough for the It works pretty well, since it at least does 30% damage to anything that comes in, and if the opposing pokemon doesn’t have recovery, that’s 30% gone off that particular pokemon for the rest of the game. And that’s for the somewhat bulky pokemon- if something like Genesect comes in thinking of banking on an ice beam to get rid of the dragon, it’s taking at least half damage and is now threatened by extremespeed. The opponent also still needs to get through the multiscale. Another notable counter is against Slowbro, who walls Metagross but is fairly worried about Hurricane.

    Leftovers is because I can’t stand LO recoil, stops other weather teams who think they can break my multiscale, and it’s not 2HKOing Skarmory anyway.

    Dragonite is named after Joey/Jounouchi’s Baby Dragon because of the similarity and because juvenile dragons can only do so much. I usually name Dragonite Yugi on other teams because they have the same eyes, bar the white pupil.


    Threatlist:


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    Because most of my team works on gradual damage over time, I can’t give you a full rundown on how I tackle every pokemon. However, there ARE a few pokemon which I don’t have a good strategy for.



    Afterword:


    … And that sums up the team. To be honest, I’ve had a lot of fun using this team, and am pretty sure that the only thing that needs improving right now before I can make any more judgments are my skill. Other than that, I know that you guys have a lot more wisdom than I do, so I hope that you’ll be able to pick up flaws that I don’t notice.

    As a note, I can’t stress the amount this team has helped me to grow as a battler. I’ve lurked on Smogon a lot, and played quite a bit, but my teams always seemed to lack something or lack synergy, somehow. It’d either be played too stall-like, or too recklessly, and I couldn’t ever figure out why. I realized after a while that there was a problem with my risk and prediction assessment skills. Playing conservatively and always being forced into reacting to the opponent after a while, I could never figure out how to get in offensive pokemon and regain momentum.

    The core of Dragonite, Metagross and Starmie solved this, because it taught me how to play with a playstyle focused on a steady offense rather than a focus on sweeping- If I wanted to keep pressure on the opponent, I had to play well not just once, but enough times for the opposing team to crack, which helps in my decision-making in the long term, since the team allows me to actually survive long enough for me to start learning how to read the opponent’s playstyle rather than just getting swept, or sweeping them. That means that I learn how to perceive small, but efficient openings in other teams that I wouldn’t notice otherwise, (eg. An inability/ability for certain opponent teams to roar rather than learning how to simply REACT to roaring by rebuilding my team) and from consistently challenging mods and uh… losing horribly to them, I learn how these gaps can be taken advantage of. (I’m sorry to all of you by the way, especially Lacerta and everyone who had to put up with my failing ;-;) This helps, a LOT in learning how to synergize my team enough for a sweeper or crucial game-ending move, as well as learning how to teambuild to defend against certain styles of attack rather than just the threat pokemon themselves- a lesson that I wouldn’t have learned otherwise from just reading the articles and analysis.

    … That doesn’t mean that I’m still not an absolute greenhorn sucker, though. I’m still applying for the battling 101 program when it next opens.

    I have one last thing to ask: What specific pokemon(s)/sets do you notice the metagame are weak to? Don’t be afraid to comment about interesting stuff that happens as well- every bit of information helps. I’ll try to figure out something general from that.

    I’m betting on a Rain Jirachi team for my next team, but I can’t quite figure out a playstyle and teammates yet. This is due to the prevalence of u-turners like Genesect running around. Issue? They’re nearly all wrecked by paralysis, and if not, Water Pulse. I can already tell that it’s probably going to be hit- and- run (so pokemon selected might have to be somewhat bulky… Latias, Mamoswine, Metagross, Conkeldurr maybe?), and more of a focus of gradually bogging the enemy down with paralysis and taking advantage of that, but I can’t tell much more than that. Slowbro also looks pretty good and Gravity is also still a bonus. I’ll make it work, one day…




    Importable:
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    M. World Figurine (Politoed) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Perish Song

    Nightmare Wheel (Ferrothorn) @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect
    - Gyro Ball
    - Stealth Rock

    Baby Dragon (Dragonite) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Rash Nature
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Aqua Tail
    - Hurricane
    - Roost

    Friendship Train (Metagross) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Meteor Mash
    - Bullet Punch
    - Hammer Arm
    - Zen Headbutt

    Capsule Monster (Rotom-Wash) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Volt Switch
    - Trick
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunder

    BEWD Jet (Tornadus-Therian) @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - Superpower
    - Substitute
    - Bulk Up
  2. Shining_Latios

    Shining_Latios

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,425
    Hey man I really like the team. As you stated though, SD Lucario is a pretty huge threat to your team. To help this out, I suggest changing your Rotom-W to a Jellicent. Here's the set:

    Jellicent (open)

    [​IMG]
    Jellicent @ Leftovers
    EVs: 248 HP / 220 Defense / 44 Speed
    Bold Nature
    Moves:
    - Surf
    - Will-o-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Recover


    Jellicent provides numerous amounts of pros to your team. First off, it completely walls SD Lucario that carry Ice Punch over Crunch, which most do because of Gliscor. Jellicent can also absolutely cripple physical attackers in general with will-o-wisp. Jellicent also has a form of Recovery, unlike Rotom, meaning it can live longer. Another thing that's very crucial that Jellicent has is Taunt. Jellicent can Taunt opposing Pokemon that try and set up hazards on you such as Ferrothorn and Forretress, which is needed for Dragonite to keep Multiscale up. It can also taunt CM Reuniclus, who looks like an issue to your team and the CM Jirachi you mentioned was a threat. Jellicent also acts as a spin blocker with it's ghost-typing, keeping your hazards up on the field. Jellicent's other typing, water, provides you with another nice rain counter along with Ferrothorn, who have fantastic synergy together. Jellicent can also help you out against your Jellicent weakness as it resists Bug Buzz, Flamethrower, and Ice Beam, the most common Genesect moves. Most lack Thunderbolt and are choiced anyways. Now, since you lack a scarfer and Thundurus-T and Hippowdown is a threat, I suggest changing Politoed into a Scarf variant.

    Politoed (open)

    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Choice Scarf
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed
    Timid Nature
    Moves:
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass] / Toxic / Focus Blast
    - Perish Song


    Politoed is a nice revenge killer for your team. It helps you kill Tornadus-T, which seems to be only handled by your Metagross. It can also revenge the other Therians. A scarfed Thundurus-T locked into a Focus Blast or HP Ice is also going down from Politoed. Politoed's rain boosted Hydro Pump also OHKO's Hippowdon when you bring it in and take away the sand. The choice between HP Grass, Toxic, and Focus Blast is really prefrence. HP Grass hits Gastrodon, Toxic helps cripple things even further, and Focus Blast provides more good coverage and is good against weakened Ferrothorn. Perish Song is so you have an answer to Baton Pass teams and is helpful for Pokemon trying to setup. Another small suggestion is definitely use Thunder Wave over Protect on Ferrothorn to cripple sweepers especially a choiced-locked Genesect. Hope I helped and good luck with the team.
  3. bluewooper

    bluewooper

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    154
    Hello Terria. I can't remember the last time I watched Yu-Gi-Oh on TV, so this thread really sparked my nostalgia. haha. Anyway, I've decided to help you out with this team, so I have a few suggestions that I'd have you consider. Here goes.

    The Problem:

    The main problem I have found on this team is that Metagross really does not help your gameplan (that is, the gameplan I've interpreted, since you claim not to really have one). I presume that most games end with a Tornadus-T/Dragonite sweep, so I am willing to consider these your goals. Metagross has really taken a shot this generation with rain teams running about. These teams increase the number of Water types and Electric Types that really abuse the weather and make Metagross's job (SMASHing stuff) really a lot harder with their Steel resistances. The teams that really beat this team (I'd presume Stall and Rain teams [rain stall, ick]) can actually use Metagross to their own advantage, setting up on him with walls such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory. Finally, he really doesn't benefit much from the rain that you're providing. I would recommend a pokemon that really helps your team, while giving it the support it needs, while receiving support from rain. I would have you consider Jirachi over Metagross. Have a gander at the set, and I'll talk to you a bit more on the other side.

    The Solution:
    [​IMG]
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Sassy: 252Hp/36Def/220SpDef
    ~Wish
    ~U-Turn
    ~Thunder
    ~Iron Head

    Benefits:

    Jirachi really brings your team a low of support and helps you enlarge your defensive backbone. Thunder just gives Jirachi a really powerful Body Slam, that can also really hit the water types that could also benefit from rain. Wish really helps Dragonite stay at top health on switchin to Stealth Rock, necessary for him if he's going to have to take any type of hit. The EV spread is kinda simple. Normally, you will see those Defense EVs thrown into Speed, but that would get you hit a really useless Speed tier, which was pretty much only used in DP (No one really wants to use a Jolly Tar anymore, without scarf). The Defense EVs allow Jirachi to switch into Stealth Rock into a Adamant CB Haxorus's Outrage and avoid being 2HKOed. This is always nice insurance late game if Ferro is weakened. A lot of pokemon enjoy the paralysis support that Jirachi provides, and, of course, you can abuse Serene Grace using Iron head, one of all of our favorite offensive strategies. Finally, Jirachi gives you really good special bulk and can tank a Latios just as well as Ferrothorn can with this investment (watch out for surf).

    Downsides:

    The Downsides to jirachi are fairly basic. You will lose two things. First, you will lose a banded priority move, which can be helpful if you let some set-up threats get out of hand. Additionally, you will lose access to a whole lot of power in exchange for team support. Even with resistances, Meteor Mash and really SMASH stuff.

    Other Small Changes


    Ok, I'm going to start off by clarifying a couple of your Slashed movesets to help you define what you are using on Rotom-W and Politoed. You definitely want to have Perish Song on Politoed. If you are having trouble with Stall teams, like you claim, Perish song really helps you eliminate the last pokemon. Additionally, note that you lacked a phazer, which you are really going to need for set up sweepers getting a bit too many boosts. Additionally, on Rotom-W, I would advise that you use Thunder. Thunder allows you to benefit from rain with two moves, which is always a good thing. Additionally, it gives you a better option to sweep with, since some teams often carry no more than 2 Electric resists.

    On to Ferrothorn. The first thing I noticed on this team was your use of the Rocky Helmet. While I appreciate the nice addition it gives on contact moves, Ferrothorn really isn't on this team to dish out hits. He wants to set up and live long. I would strongly recommend Leftovers over Rocky Helmet. Simply put, Ferrothorn is really important to this team and you need him to live for as long as possible. Additionally, Ferrothorn absolutely needs to have Spikes. With his great typing, he gets to switch in all of the time on so many pokemon. If you don't have Spikes, he just becomes a pokemon that can take hits, as opposed to a pokemon that can take hits and can set up hazards against the opposition. I would Definitely put Spikes over Protect/Thunderwave. Paralysis support is already there with Jirachi, and this team is offensive enough that you really don't want to be stalling with protect.

    One last thing. Tornadus-T only has an attack stat of 100. This is not really what you want with your best sweeper to sweep with. Many pokemon pull of the Acrobatics set better than Tornadus-T, in my opinion. Tornadus really needs to abuse the weather as best as he can, meaning that he should probably still run the standard Hurricane set. He still is mixed and still carries Superpower, but he also makes use of his better 110 Special Attack. Also, you really need to make use of rain if you are going to run Politoed. Special Tornadus-T really helps you do that. here is my suggested set:
    Tornadus-T (open)
    [​IMG]

    Tornadus-T @ Life Orb
    Naive: 4Atk/252SpA/252Spe
    ~Hurricane
    ~HP Ice
    ~Superpower
    ~U-Turn

    Hey, I hope you really have a lot of success with this team, and I think that you could do that if you consider my changes. Good luck in the future~
  4. Terria

    Terria

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    First of all, I'd like to thank both of you for your feedback, which is pretty valuable and makes me a really happy first-time RMTer. Live knowing that you've made someone's day today!


    Re: Jellicent-

    I can see a few... problems with this. 1.Hydration Vaporeon is a problem. 2. I become extremely weak to Spikes/Tspikes. 3. This makes my team extremely weak to Thundurus-T and Genesect, which then requires me to carry Scarf Politoed. This is a problem as I will need to sacrifice someone to deal with it all the time.

    I can honestly say I tried, but Jellicent is far too easily dispersed for this kind of team without support.

    Re: Politoed

    This team really dislikes hazards when Politoed is switched to scarf because of a lack of power. I did a bit of testing, and Scarf Politoed is eliminated extremely quickly due to being unable to KO the opponent, specifically Jirachi. In the previous team lineup, the only issue I have is with Scarf Thundurus- LO Thundurus is fairly easy to dispose of because of Rotom-W and Ferrothorn.



    Re: Tornadus

    Acrobatics Tornadus was mainly because of Sun teams running rampant which I disliked matchups with. I'm currently testing the Hurricanenadus, and it seems fine so far. Do you have any suggestions for sun teams in general?

    This will be updated after more testing.

    Re: Jirachi

    This looks really good. My only immediate problem is still a weakness to Sun teams, when Thunder isn't at 100% and opponents get a free switch, or consistently deal damage to Politoed (If I use U-Turn. Spikes Damage also adds up quickly.), or Thundurus-T. While it's also true that Tornadus and Dragonite usually end up doing a lot of damage, Metagross is usually vital to this as it helps break the walls into KO range for either of them, with or without rain. Bullet punch is also vital for things like Genesect. that said, though, all of the points you have made are valid, and I really can't say anything until testing is done. There is a ridiculous weakness to Tornadus and Mixnite for most teams, and Jirachi will definitely help with SR issues.

    I've noticed that Wish (from something else, maybe @_@) might open up huge opportunities for Metagross to switch in since it can now take the damage. Since Metagross is so horribly destructive and I can confirm that teams usually cannot deal with it once, let alone twice, I'm considering something to support this. Jirachi also gets Healing Wish, which is a free switch and quite possibly the worst thing to ever happen to an opponent if it works- especially to the likes of Lucario and Dragonite. Especially Dragonite.

    Sub Thundurus may also benefit a lot from this, since Thunder+Focus Blast+Hp Ice is already pretty OP. I'll shuffle things around and let you know.

    Also still in testing- will be updated later.

    Perish Song has been accepted.

    Thunder has been accepted.

    Spikes is in testing. I can see the benefit, as if Spikes is up, Ferrothorn and Chansey are no longer able to beat dragonite by any measure even with Leftovers.

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