Milotic [4F]*

[Seven Deadly Sins]

YEAH

Okay, so I'm lazy and it took me for fucking ever to finish this, but it's finished now!

Major changes include Light Screen to OO instead of having its own set, less emphasis on Hypnosis, and the addition of RaikouLover's excellent Life Orb Tank set.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/milotic


[SET]
name: Bulky Water
move 1: Surf
move 2: Hidden Power Grass
move 3: Recover
move 4: Ice Beam / Haze / Toxic
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Milotic's excellent 95/79/125 defenses combined with its superb Water typing cement it as an exceptional defensive Water-type. Milotic is capable of sponging hits from many top attackers in UU and either Recovering off the damage or hitting back from 100 base Special Attack. Hidden Power Grass is used to hit threats such as Feraligatr, Azumarill, and other Water-types that Milotic can wall effectively. Recover gives Milotic great utility as a self-healing bulky Water and makes it very difficult to take down.</p>

<p>The last move is an issue of choice. Ice Beam can hit Altaria, Venusaur, and Torterra. However, be wary of faster Venusaur and Torterra variants, as they can easily outspeed Milotic and OHKO with their STAB Grass-type attacks. Haze is incredibly useful to remove stat boosts from opponents such as Feraligatr, Calm Mind Slowbro/Spiritomb, and others. Finally, Toxic is useful for hitting walls such as Slowbro, Tangrowth, and opposing Milotic, who are more than happy to switch into Milotic.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>In UU, Milotic can't help but be compared to the other bulky Water-types in the metagame. The two top contenders for the Bulky Water title are Slowbro and Azumarill, and each provides a significant advantage over the other. Milotic's main advantages are Haze, which allows it to take on bulky stat-increasing threats, something that Slowbro cannot do. In addition, Slowbro's secondary Psychic typing gives it weaknesses to Ghost and Dark that Milotic does not have to deal with. Milotic also has 45 more base Special Defense than Slowbro, meaning that while Slowbro makes a much better physical wall, Milotic can act as an incredibly efficient mixed tank.</p>

<p>Despite Water's excellent defensive typing, it still has its issues. Powerful Electric and Grass-type attacks can still put a large dent in Milotic. As such, it is always a wise idea to have a go-to Pokémon for this purpose. Venusaur is an excellent Pokémon with which to support Milotic, as it resists Grass and Electric, can absorb Toxic aimed at crippling Milotic's walling abilities, and can also threaten opposing bulky waters with its powerful STAB Energy Ball or Leaf Storm. Registeel also resists Grass and is neutral to Electric, as well as possessing an immunity to Toxic. It also has much better Defense than Venusaur, allowing it to take physical attacks as well as special ones. Altaria has a 4x resistance to Grass and neutrality to Electric as well, and it has the potential to be more offensive than either of the aforementioned teammates.</p>

[SET]
name: Rest + Sleep Talk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Surf
move 4: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass
item: Leftovers
nature: Modest
evs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 16 SpA / 8 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Even though Milotic has access to Recover, there are certain advantages to a Sleep Talk set for a Pokémon such as Milotic. The most significant one is Marvel Scale. Milotic's unique ability increases its defense by 50% whenever it is affected by a status, which means that while Resting, Milotic is extremely difficult to take down. The other is that Milotic often finds itself as the target of status such as Toxic, which it wants to get rid of as quickly as possible. Surf and Ice Beam comprise the standard Water-Ice offensive pairing, giving the best two-move coverage that Milotic can find. Hidden Power Grass also provides useful coverage, allowing Milotic to hit opposing Water-types such as Feraligatr and Slowbro, but renders you unable to hit Altaria or Grass-types.</p>

<p>EV-wise, this Milotic doesn't need to invest as heavily in Defense due to Marvel Scale boosting its Defense significantly. This means that it can devote a little bit to its Special Attack. A Modest nature and 16 EVs gives Milotic's attacks some much-needed bite, and 16 EVs gives Milotic its first bonus point.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>As with the previous set, this Milotic needs two things: a way to deal with Electric and Grass attacks, and a way to deal with bulky Water-types that will wall this set endlessly. Venusaur is once again the best teammate for Milotic, being able to deal with both of Milotic's main threats. Registeel, Altaria, and Tangrowth also provide the required resistances, but none of them perform as well against Milotic's counters as Venusaur.</p>

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Hypnosis / Surf / Recover
item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf / Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Milotic's base 100 Special Attack and base 81 Speed make it a perfectly viable offensive Pokémon. With Choice Specs, Milotic makes an exceptionally bulky Choice user, backed by a STAB Hydro Pump, one of the strongest attacks with one of the best offensive typings in the game. Surf is more reliable, having perfect accuracy but significantly less power. Ice Beam is the staple coverage move for Water-type Pokémon, providing coverage against Grass-types and Altaria. Hidden Power Grass hits Water-types attempting to wall the first two moves and works especially well against Gastrodon and Quagsire. The final move is up to personal preference. Hypnosis can take one of Milotic's counters out of the game relatively early, but its shaky accuracy often makes it little more than a gamble. Surf may seem redundant, but given that Milotic is short on offensive options, having the option of attacking with either Hydro Pump or Surf on the same set can come in handy. Speed is maximized in order to outspeed all base 80 Pokémon, such as Blaziken and Altaria, as well as all neutral variants of base 90 Pokémon such as Moltres and Porygon-Z.</p>

<p>Item choice is a matter of preference. Choice Specs provide the maximum amount of power to punch through teams. Choice Scarf gives a solid method of revenge killing many scarfed or speed boosted threats, such as +1 Dragon Dance Altaria or Scarfed Medicham. Finally, Life Orb trades bulk for versatility. If Life Orb is used, Recover is an option in the last slot, as Milotic can use the ability to recover the HP sheared off by Life Orb.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Since this Milotic is more offensively minded, it is best complemented by offensive teammates. Venusaur once again comes to mind, as it synergizes well with Milotic defensively, inflicts Sleep on opponents, and deals damage with its strong Special attacks or with Swords Dance boosted Power Whips and Earthquakes. Altaria also does well, as it can use Grass- and select Electric-type attacks as setup fodder for a Dragon Dance sweep. Feraligatr and Azumarill are strong Water-type attackers, who can profit from a predicted Ice Beam or Hidden Power Grass taking out the opponent's Water resist, allowing them to inflict heavy damage on the opposing team. Azumarill is especially notable, as it can easily switch into Chansey and threaten it with either Choice Band Waterfall or a 101 HP Substitute and Focus Punch. Absol can also do the same with a powerful Pursuit, Night Slash, or Superpower.</p>

[SET]
name: Life Orb Tank
move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Electric
move 4: Recover
item: Life Orb
evs: 152 HP / 80 Def / 220 SpA / 56 Spe
nature: Modest

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With sturdy defenses, excellent type coverage, instant recovery, and a solid 100 Base Special Attack, Milotic has all the tools to be a premier tank in UU. Hydro Pump is the main attack and absolutely tears through most of UU. Ice Beam is for coverage and will make Venusaur think twice about switching in freely.<p>

<p>The final attack is a general coverage attack to battle with opposing Water-types. Hidden Power Grass gives you a solid way to deal with Stockpile Gastrodon and can at least dent Lanturn, but Hidden Power Electric has better neutrality as a whole, which can make it more difficult for opponents to switch in. Recover allows Milotic to switch in multiple times throughout the course of the battle and replenish any health lost from Life Orb recoil.<p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The magic in this set is all in the EVs. The HP investment is enough to reach 369, which rounds Life Orb recoil down. The 56 Speed EVs allow Milotic to reach 212, which is enough to outpace slower variants of Mixed Blaziken, Jolly Marowak, and Adamant Torterra. Although the prospect of using a Timid nature and additional EVs may be tempting, Milotic will lose a significant amount of power and durability. Notable Pokémon between 210 and Milotic's maximum Speed usually have priority, like Absol's Sucker Punch, or have a method to increase their speed, such as Feraligatr, Altaria, and Swift Swimmers like Kabutops.<p>

<p>With a Modest nature and 220 Special Attack EVs, Milotic reaches its highest possible bonus point total at 319, which makes it an effective wallbreaker. Hydro Pump has enough juice to score 2HKOs on most Uxie, Spritomb, and Registeel, as well as a very slight chance to 2HKO Clefable. The rest of the EVs are put into defenses to make it an effective check against Fire-type Pokémon. Arcanine will never manage a 2HKO with Choice Banded Extremespeed while Stealth Rock is in play, and defensive Moltres are unable to 3HKO with Air Slash despite the lack of Leftovers.<p>

<p>Since this Milotic is more geared toward wallbreaking or tanking hits than simply walling, its allies should be able to take advantage of the damage that Milotic can deal to opposing teams. If Milotic can catch a crucial Water resist on the switch with either Hidden Power Grass or Ice Beam, it can clear the way for any other Water-type attacker, such as Choice Band Azumarill or Dragon Dance Feraligatr, who can easily deal plenty of damage to opposing teams once their Water resists are removed. Venusaur can switch into Grass- and Electric-type attacks that can threaten Milotic, as well as bulky Water-types that can otherwise prevent Milotic from dealing damage. Altaria can switch into Grass- and select Electric-type attacks, and potentially use the damage dealt by Milotic to open up for a Dragon Dance sweep. If you're looking to maximize Milotic's offensive potential, Absol can Pursuit opposing Chansey, which can clear the way for Milotic to deal plenty of damage to the opposing team.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>As mentioned in the previous sets, Milotic needs defenses against strong Grass and Electric-type attacks. Obviously, this means that the best partners for Milotic are Grass-types, who resist both of Milotic's weaknesses, while Milotic resists the Fire and Ice attacks that plague Grass-types. Venusaur immediately comes to mind as a partner for Milotic, as it has reasonable special bulk to take attacks like opposing Venusaur's Leaf Storm or Energy Ball. Tangrowth also does well if you're afraid of physical attacks aimed at Milotic's lower defensive stat, but it has to be extremely careful with opposing special attackers.</p>

<p>Outside of Grass-types, a combination of a Grass resist and an Electric resist can work well with Milotic. Registeel can take Grass attacks and most neutral Electric attacks all day long with its 80/150/150 defenses. Altaria can do the same, and unlike Registeel, it has access to reliable healing in the form of Roost and can counter non-Hidden Power Ice variants of Magmortar. Weezing resists Grass-type attacks and can burn opposing physical attackers, making it much easier for Milotic to wall them. However, its shaky Special Defense means that it requires a third member to resist Electric attacks for Milotic. On the Electric resist side, Steelix makes an excellent ally, with its 75/200 Defense, immunity to Electric, and immunity to the Toxic that Milotic tends to draw. Nidoqueen can do the same and also enjoys getting free turns against opposing Pokémon to set up its Stealth Rock or Toxic Spikes. It can also remove Toxic Spikes from the field, making it much easier for Milotic to wall opposing Pokémon. Finally, Torterra has exceptional bulk and an immunity to Electric, and it can take numerous attacks aimed at Milotic. Milotic returns the favor by providing Fire and Ice resists for Torterra, covering its few weaknesses.</p>

<p>When using offensive variants of Milotic, such as the Offensive or Life Orb Tank sets, it becomes important to take out powerful special checks that can sponge Milotic's attacks easily and prevent it from sweeping. Since Chansey is the biggest offender, Pokémon that can switch into Chansey and either threaten it severely or set up on it are suggested. Absol can do an excellent job of coming into Chansey and forcing it into a Pursuit / Superpower guessing game, but can be susceptible to a Thunder Wave preventing it from sweeping further. Dugtrio can be used well not only to trap Chansey, but also Venusaur that can threaten Milotic, though it can't switch in directly. Beyond that, the best bet is a solid way to take out opposing Water-types such as Milotic and Azumarill, who can easily switch into resisted attacks and put holes in an offensively-minded Milotic. Venusaur and other grass-types do the job nicely, and also provide a solid defensive synergy with Milotic, covering one another's resistances perfectly.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Most of Milotic's effective movepool is covered in the above sets, but there are a couple of novelty options. Dragon Pulse provides perfect neutral coverage in tandem with Surf, but its lack of super effective coverage makes it a poor choice in most situations. Light Screen can be used to support the team and improve Milotic's ability to take special hits. Meanwhile, Mirror Coat can allow you to surprise opponents who try to hit you with neutral Special attacks that won't KO. Hypnosis used to be a staple on Milotic, but between its now 60% accuracy and Milotic's need for another move in its last slot, Milotic has issues putting it into a set. Flame Orb is marginally viable as an item for Milotic, as it provides a 50% increase in Defense and an immunity to status, but the loss of effectively 18% HP per turn (Leftovers recovery + burn damage) makes it a significantly worse item choice.</p>

[EVs]

<p>Milotic's EVs are pretty straightforward. For maximum walling capabilities against both physical and special attacks, maximum HP and Defense are advised for use in tandem with a Bold nature. It is possible to run Milotic with an entirely Special Defensive set packing 252 Special Defense EVs and a Calm nature to fully utilize its 125 Special Defense, but weaknesses to common special attacking types such as Grass and Electric make it a less appealing option. 8 Speed EVs may seem random, but with those EVs, Milotic reaches 200 Speed, enough to outpace Adamant Max Speed Aggron.</p>

<p>Choice variants should use maximized Special Attack and 248 Speed EVs to provide maximum punch and enough speed to beat Base 80 +nature and base 90 neutral nature Pokémon. The Life Orb Tank set uses very specialized EVs described in its analysis above.</p>

[Opinion]

<p>Very little has changed for Milotic defensively since ADV, but that's not always a good thing. Diamond/Pearl has brought with it new monstrously powerful sweepers such as Nasty Plot Infernape, Dragon Dance Outrage Salamence, and other threats that Milotic simply doesn't have the power to stand up against. Worse yet, Hypnosis's accuracy is now a measly 60%, and with Wish becoming more and more useful, Milotic finds itself commonly overshadowed by Vaporeon.</p>

<p>That being said, Milotic finds itself landing very comfortably in its new niche in Generation 4's Underused tier, where it provides an extremely viable choice as a bulky Water-type and status absorber. Its movepool may not be very large, but it's focused perfectly for its job in UU, where it can stand up against strong threats such as Blaziken, Feraligatr, and Azumarill with ease. With its solid 95/79/125 defenses, access to Recover, and ability to hit back with 100 base Special Attack, Milotic is a great choice for any kind of team in UU.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Grass-types such as Venusaur and Ludicolo can make Milotic's life hard, as they can hit Milotic hard on its Grass weakness with their STABs while taking low damage from Milotic's offensive options. However, beyond Grass-types, the choice of a Milotic counter is largely dependent on which variant of Milotic you're fighting. Variants without Rest are crippled by Toxic, which continually chips away at Milotic's HP, preventing it from staying in against threats for extended periods of time. Variants without Haze or Hidden Power Grass are pure setup fodder for SubDD or SubSD Feraligatr, who can set up an unbreakable substitute in Milotic's face. SubPunch Azumarill can also provide to be the bane of Milotic without a neutral attack, as they can proceed to Substitute for free before assaulting Milotic with powerful Focus Punches. Toxicroak's Dry Skin ability also allows it to easily switch into Milotic and set up on it, as a neutral Ice Beam is the best that Milotic can muster in return.</p>

<p>Milotic's offensive sets can be beaten with a little prediction. The safest way to switch into offensive Milotic is by using a Water-type such as one's own Milotic or a Slowbro. Altaria also makes a good choice for switching into Milotic, as long as it stays away from Ice Beams. However, the bar none best way to switch into offensive Milotic is using Chansey, who can proceed to either stall it out with Softboiled/Wish or cripple it with Toxic or Thunder Wave.</p>

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Nice to see the Milotic revamp posted. I only skimmed through the sets, so it's not an in depth criticism.

Set1: I'd say move Hypnosis to the last slot;
| Milotic | Move | Hypnosis | 12.0 |
It's the least used option, I'd move Toxic first followed by Haze. Also, I'd maybe mention Hidden Power as an option there to counter Water types like Feraligatr ect.

Set2: Definitely slash in Toxic to the Rest Talk set, as Milotic is an incredible Toxic staller with Resttalk.

Other options: Just something I saw reading through; "but the loss of effectively 18% HP per turn (lefties recovery + burn damage) makes it a significantly worse item choice". Burn only does 12% per turn, and lefties heals 6% of that, so you'd be losing only 6% every turn, not 18%.

 

[franky]

I'm really confused right now cause I thought Hidden Power Grass would be standard on Milotic because with Grass, he becomes one of the best checks to DD Feraligar and SD Kaubtops. Grass also prevents Azumarill from setting up Sub. At least I think it deserves a mention.

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

Bulky Water

<p>Milotic's excellent 95/79/125 defenses combined with its superb Water typing cement it as an exceptional defensive Water-type. Milotic is capable of sponging hits from many top attackers in UU and either Recovering off the damage or hitting back from 100 base Special Attack. Ice Beam is the staple coverage move for Water-types, hitting threats such as Altaria, Roserade, and Torterra. Recover gives Milotic great utility as a self-healing bulky Water and makes it very difficult to take down.</p>

<p>Despite Water's excellent defensive typing, it still has its issues. Powerful Electric and Grass-type attacks can still put a large dent in Milotic. As such, it is always a wise idea to have a go-to Pokemon for this purpose. Roserade is an excellent Pokemon with which to support Milotic, as it resists Grass and Electric, can absorb Toxic aimed at crippling Milotic's walling abilities, and can also threaten opposing bulky waters with its powerful STAB Energy Ball or Leaf Storm. Registeel also resists Grass and is neutral to Electric, as well as possessing an immunity to Toxic. It also has much better Defense than Roserade, allowing it to take physical attacks as well as special ones. Altaria has a 4x resistance to Grass and neutrality to Electric as well, and it has the potential to be more offensive than either of the aforementioned teammates.</p>

I think Hidden Power Grass should definitely be slashed with Ice Beam, or at least mentioned in set comments. This enables Milotic to beat certain opposing Water-types, most importantly, Substitute Azumarill, and to a lesser extent, Feraligatr and Omastar.

Rest + Sleep Talk

<p>As with the previous set, this Milotic needs two things: a way to deal with Electric and Grass attacks, and a way to deal with bulky Water-types that will wall this set endlessly. Roserade is once again the best teammate for Milotic, being able to deal with both of Milotic's main threats. Registeel, Altaria, and Tangrowth also provide the required resistances, but none of them perform as well against Milotic's counters as Roserade.</p>

Choice

<p>Milotic's base 100 Special Attack and Base 81 Speed make it a perfectly viable Choice Item user. With Choice Specs, Milotic makes an exceptionally bulky Choice user, backed by a STAB Hydro Pump, one of the strongest attacks in the game with one of the best offensive typings in the game. Surf is more reliable, having perfect accuracy but significantly less power. Ice Beam is the staple coverage move for Water-type Pokemon, providing coverage against Grass-types and Dragon-types. The choice of Hidden Power type depends on what you would rather hit. Hidden Power Grass hits Water-types attempting to wall the first two moves and works especially well against Gastrodon and Quagsire. (What's the other Hidden Power? Electric, which hits Qwilfish and Mantine?) The final move is up to personal preference. Hypnosis can take one of Milotic's counters out of the game relatively early, but its shaky accuracy often makes it little more than a gamble. Surf may seem redundant, but given that Milotic is short on offensive options, having the option of attacking with either Hydro Pump or Surf on the same set can come in handy. 248 Speed EVs reach 286 Speed, which outspeeds all base 80 Pokemon, such as Blaziken and Altaria, as well as all neutral variants of base 90 Pokemon such as Moltres and Roserade.</p>

Life Orb Tank

<p>With sturdy defenses, excellent type coverage, instant recovery, and a nice 100 Base Special Attack, Milotic has all the tools to be a premier tank in UU. Hydro Pump is the main attack and absolutely tears through most of UU. Ice Beam is for coverage and will make Roserade think twice about switching in freely.<p>

<p>The final attack is a general coverage attack to battle with opposing Water-types. Hidden Power Electric has better neutrality as a whole, which can make it more difficult for opponents to switch in. Hidden Power Grass, however, gives you a solid way to deal with Stockpile Gastrodon and can at least dent Lanturn. Recover allows Milotic to switch in multiple times throughout the course of the battle and replenish any health lost from Life Orb recoil.<p>

<p>The magic in this set is all in the EVs. The HP investment is enough to reach 369, which rounds Life Orb recoil down. The 56 Speed EVs allow Milotic to reach 212, which is enough to outpace slower variants of Mixed Blaziken, Jolly Marowak, and Adamant Torterra. Although the prospect of using a Timid nature and additional EVs may be tempting, Milotic will lose a significant amount of power and durability. Notable Pokemon between 210 and Milotic's maximum Speed usually have priority, like Absol and Honchcrow's Sucker Punch, or have a method to increase their speed, such as Feraligatr, Altaria, and Swift Swimmers like Kabutops.<p>

<p>With a Modest nature and 220 Special Attack EVs, Milotic reaches its highest possible bonus point total at 319, which makes it an effective wallbreaker. Hydro Pump has enough juice to score 2HKOs on most Uxie, Spritomb, and Registeel, as well as a very slight chance to 2HKO Clefable. The rest of the EVs were put into defenses to make it an effective check against Fire pokemon. Arcanine will never manage a 2HKO with Choice Banded Extremespeed while Stealth Rock is in play, and defensive Moltres are unable to 3HKO with Air Slash despite the lack of Leftovers.<p>

Timid Life Orb Moltres always 3HKOes.

Team Options

<p>Outside of Grass-types, a combination of a Grass resist and an Electric resist can work well with Milotic. Registeel can take Grass attacks and most neutral Electric attacks all day long with its 80/150/150 defenses. Altaria can do the same, and unlike Registeel, it has access to reliable healing in the form of Roost and can counter non-Hidden Power Ice variants of Magmortar. Weezing resists Grass-type attacks and can burn opposing physical attackers, making it much easier for Milotic to wall them. However, its shaky Special Defense means that it requires a third member to resist Electric attacks for Milotic. On the Electric resist side, Steelix makes an excellent ally, with its 75/200 Defense, immunity to Electric, and immunity to the Toxic that Milotic tends to draw. Nidoqueen can do the same and also enjoys getting free turns against opposing Pokemon to set up its Stealth Rock or Toxic Spikes. It can also remove Toxic Spikes from the field, making it much easier for Milotic to wall opposing Pokemon. Finally, Torterra has exceptional bulk and an immunity to Electric, and it can take numerous attacks aimed at Milotic. Milotic returns the favor by providing Fire and Ice resists for Torterra, covering its few weaknesses.</p>

Other Options

<p>Most of Milotic's effective movepool is covered in the above sets, but there are a couple of novelty options. Dragon Pulse provides perfect neutral coverage in tandem with Surf, but its lack of super effective coverage makes it a poor choice in most situations. Flame Orb is marginally viable as an item for Milotic, as it provides a 50% increase in Defense and an immunity to status, but the loss of effectively 18% HP per turn (Leftovers recovery + burn damage) makes it a significantly worse item choice.</p>

EVs

<p>Milotic's EVs are pretty straightforward. For maximum walling capabilities against both physical and special attacks, maximum HP and Defense are advised for use in tandem with a Bold nature. It is possible to run Milotic with a fully Special Defensive set packing 252 Special Defense EVs and a Calm nature to fully utilize its 125 Special Defense, but weaknesses to common special attacking types such as Grass and Electric make it a less appealing option.</p>

Opinion

<p>That being said, Milotic finds itself landing very comfortably in its new niche in Generation 4's Underused tier, where it provides an extremely viable choice as a bulky Water-type and status absorber. Its movepool may not be very large, but it's focused perfectly for its job in UU, where it can stand up against strong threats such as Blaziken, Feraligatr, and Azumarill with ease. With its solid 95/79/125 defenses, access to Recover, and ability to hit back with 100 base Special Attack, Milotic is a great choice for any kind of team in UU.</p>

Counters

<p>Milotic's biggest fear is Roserade, which switches in with ease on anything except Ice Beam and is even capable of taking invested Ice Beams with ease while striking back with its vicious STAB Leaf Storm. Other Grass-types such as Venusaur and Ludicolo can make Milotic's life hard, as they can hit Milotic hard on its Grass weakness with their STABs while taking low damage from Milotic's offensive options. However, beyond Grass-types, the choice of a Milotic counter is largely dependent on which variant of Milotic you're fighting. Variants without Rest are crippled by Toxic, which continually chips away at Milotic's HP, preventing it from staying in against threats for extended periods of time. Variants without Haze or Hidden Power Grass are pure setup fodder for SubDD or SubSD Feraligatr, which can set up a Substitute, which cannot be broken with resisted hits, in Milotic's face. SubPunch Azumarill can also provide to be the bane of Milotic without a neutral attack, as they can proceed to Substitute for free before assaulting Milotic with powerful Focus Punches.</p>

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Nice to see the Milotic revamp posted. I only skimmed through the sets, so it's not an in depth criticism.

Set1: I'd say move Hypnosis to the last slot;
| Milotic | Move | Hypnosis | 12.0 |
It's the least used option, I'd move Toxic first followed by Haze. Also, I'd maybe mention Hidden Power as an option there to counter Water types like Feraligatr ect.

Yeah, that makes sense. I'll change it.

Set2: Definitely slash in Toxic to the Rest Talk set, as Milotic is an incredible Toxic staller with Resttalk.

Putting anything but two attacking moves on a ResTalker is generally lame, as it kinda kills the use of Sleep Talk. I know that Rest / STalk / Surf / Haze exists, but it's kinda meh considering the way Sleep Talk works.

Other options: Just something I saw reading through; "but the loss of effectively 18% HP per turn (lefties recovery + burn damage) makes it a significantly worse item choice". Burn only does 12% per turn, and lefties heals 6% of that, so you'd be losing only 6% every turn, not 18%.

You can't hold Leftovers and Flame Orb at the same time, so in order to use Flame Orb you have to sacrifice Leftovers recovery, which is why the two are added together.

 

[EvilMario]

I don't believe Flame Orb even deserves a mention, Milotic just doesn't have much to fill OO with. One of the benefits of Milotic is being able to switch into status, and have Leftovers recover to help with the Burn/Poison. And if Dragon Pulse is worth an mention, then Light Screen at least is. (I see you mention this in the header, but it's not in OO yet).

I've no experiece trying Mirror Coat on Milotic, but one would think she could survive a wide range of Electric and Grass special attacks, bouncing them back.. and recovering off the damage. OO at least?

One question; is the Choice set really better than the Life Orb Tank? I've ran a fairly offensive Life Orb Milotic with Recover, and it seems very effective.. more so than it would be if I was restricted to one move.

You may remove mention of the now BL, Shaymin (and rarely seen in OU).

 

[Thund91]

I don't believe Flame Orb even deserves a mention, Milotic just doesn't have much to fill OO with. One of the benefits of Milotic is being able to switch into status, and have Leftovers recover to help with the Burn/Poison. And if Dragon Pulse is worth an mention, then Light Screen at least is. (I see you mention this in the header, but it's not in OO yet).

I've no experiece trying Mirror Coat on Milotic, but one would think she could survive a wide range of Electric and Grass special attacks, bouncing them back.. and recovering off the damage. OO at least?

One question; is the Choice set really better than the Life Orb Tank? I've ran a fairly offensive Life Orb Milotic with Recover, and it seems very effective.. more so than it would be if I was restricted to one move.

You may remove mention of the now BL, Shaymin (and rarely seen in OU).

I agree that Light Screen and Mirror Coat should both get a mention in OO. They can be fantastic moves on Milotic, especially since she can even survive some STAB electric and grass attacks.

I think Grass should come before Electric on the LO set, as it's much more useful. Electric is only really for Mantine, who isn't common at all.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Yeah, I made the Grass > Electric switch everywhere but the LO set, which seems silly.

Also, I made the Light Screen and Mirror Coat mentions in the Google Docs version of this one, but didn't make them here ?_? (fixing)

 

[Thund91]

Also, in the ev's section, maybe you can mention 56 speed ev's on the defensive sets to outspeed max speed Adamant Torterra, Marowak, and 16 spe Mixken. Just a thought. Taking from HP won't be hurting it's durability all that much.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

I'd probably scrap the choice set and mention a sweeper spread (252 speed/252 special attack) of the life orb tank

And on the bulky water set I'd drop hypnosis altogether and make the 3 options hp grass/toxic/haze.

I know just the other day I complained about an analysis being a bit (way) too long...but this one seems kind of bare bones. Is there any way you could flesh it out. Milotic is kind of a big deal in UU, it deserves a better analysis.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

You can't hold Leftovers and Flame Orb at the same time, so in order to use Flame Orb you have to sacrifice Leftovers recovery, which is why the two are added together.

>.> fail on my part. But I'm still sort of correct, you only lose 12% not 18% (or change wording there, as it makes it sound like you're literally losing 18% each turn)
EDIT: Also, I'd mention Toxicroak in Counters as a good switch into Milotic, as it's pure set up bait with Ice Beam not doing more than 50% usually.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Jabba, I honestly can't see what else you would want me to put? Milotic is a basic bulky water, and this analysis pretty much lists everything notable that it can do. Also, Choice is quite viable considering its stat spread.

I'll mention Toxicroak in Counters, move Hypnosis to OO and put HP Grass in its place, as well as the 56 EV spread. Actually, it might be reasonable to just make the spread 200 HP / 252 Def / 56 Spe on the main set. Thoughts on that?

 

[Heysup]

I don't think changing the EVs for a Pokemon's not-main set (slow blaziken) makes much sense, I just think mentioning it is ok, because otherwise it seems weird to sacrifice that HP.

 

[haunter]

Yuo should mention that Toxicroak can only counter defensive variants, because a life orb'd ice beam can score a 2hko on it and with choice specs it can do even more (though it requires perfect prediction).

 

[Darkmalice]

On the Choice set, use 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe. An extra 1 point in HP is not worth losing a speed tie to max speed Milotic and letting it hit you with HP Grass. As Jabba already set, LO should be an option with this spread, though I don't support the removal of the LO Tank set.

I don't really see how this analysis is finished. It's too.. short. Team Options is lacking needed info, like which Pokemon accompany the Grass and Electric types that pose Milotic problems.

Also, if you're consistently mentioning Roserade as the #1 partner to Milotic, surely Venusaur deserves a mention.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

I don't think changing the EVs for a Pokemon's not-main set (slow blaziken) makes much sense, I just think mentioning it is ok, because otherwise it seems weird to sacrifice that HP.

It's actually for Jolly Marowak and Adamant Torterra, considering that Mixed Blaziken rarely runs slow any more.

 

[twash]

I don't really see how this analysis is finished. It's too.. short. Team Options is lacking needed info, like which Pokemon accompany the Grass and Electric types that pose Milotic problems.

Also, if you're consistently mentioning Roserade as the #1 partner to Milotic, surely Venusaur deserves a mention.

It isn't finished - that's why it's in this forum being reviewed and commented on. This analysis really isn't "short" at all. It might be lacking some information in places, but saying "it's short" really is not helpful when it is of a decent solid length. You sentence about the Team Options really doesn't really make much sense to me (no offense meant). I don't really understand what you are trying to say at all..you want SDS to list good teammates of the suggested teammates? We really don't want to go down a route where you start building them a team. We just want to give them solid information on what works well with this Pokemon.

Instead of this whole "it's too short make it longer", can we please help the user a bit more and explain where it is lacking and how they should expand it (and within reason). When somebody writes an analysis and has proofread it more than once, and somebody says "it needs to be longer", it is very hard to tell where you can expand after you have proofread it consistently and feel as though it's okay.

Other Options wise, I am thinking Confuse Ray could be useful to hit those Grass- / Electric-types with a confusion which gives you a 50% chance to get in another Pokemon for free. Arguably it is too hard to find a spot on a moveset, though.

Psych Up is an interesting option that is also potentially Other Options worthy. It's inability to hit through a Substitute and its way of forcing things into a "who critical hits first wins" against some stuff pretty much makes it inferior to Haze, but it might be worth a mention.

Tickle means that Absol's Choice Band Pursuit does a minimum of 54% to 4 HP / 252 Def Calm Chansey (you Tickle Chansey, not Absol by the way), which is pretty cool as it is an OHKO if Chansey switches. Protect completely blows on this plan though..

Milotic also learns Rain Dance which, with Recover, is a decent option to boost Surf / Hydro Pump. People don't go around carrying Thunder in case of rain teams generally, but Swift Swim Ludicolo is then annoying.

Team Options wise, I can't help but feel you have kept thinking on the defensive, and forgotten the offensive side to Milotic. Absol / Honchkrow help take out Chansey who may keep coming in and halting your complete Milotic sweep. Honchkrow outspeeds the defensive Roserade, can Pursuit it, and has Insomnia to take Sleep Powder. Unfortunately the Electric weakness hurts, but I feel it's worth a mention.

Drapion can switch into Roserade relatively well (and Chansey), and can annoy both. It has pretty good defenses too, and a resistance to Grass-type moves. Dugtrio can revenge kill a slightly weakened Roserade I guess..and has that resistance to Electric-type attacks (screw you Lanturn).

Exeggutor can take Electric- / Grass-type attacks, and somewhat lure in Blissey and Explode (stuff like Fire Blast Camerupt and Ice Beam / Earth Power Claydol can do this too I guess), which then helps Milotic. Theorymonning there though, so I am not totally sure.

Anyway, just throwing a few ideas out there to help.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

There's nothing else I really can say. It's just a lot of it doesn't seem fleshed out and doesn't properly emphasize Milotic's role in UU as one of the top two bulky waters. A bulky water in UU is almost a necessity, I'd explain that and why in the first set. I'd explain what Milotic has over the other bulky waters (Slowbro, Slowking and even Azumarill). The choice set still sucks and should be dropped...other options at best. Unless you can explain in the set why Specs should be used over the much superior Life Orb and what Scarf is going to be revenging that it couldn't revenge without the scarf.

 

[Darkmalice]

It isn't finished - that's why it's in this forum being reviewed and commented on. This analysis really isn't "short" at all. It might be lacking some information in places, but saying "it's short" really is not helpful when it is of a decent solid length. You sentence about the Team Options really doesn't really make much sense to me (no offense meant). I don't really understand what you are trying to say at all..you want SDS to list good teammates of the suggested teammates? We really don't want to go down a route where you start building them a team. We just want to give them solid information on what works well with this Pokemon.

Instead of this whole "it's too short make it longer", can we please help the user a bit more and explain where it is lacking and how they should expand it (and within reason). When somebody writes an analysis and has proofread it more than once, and somebody says "it needs to be longer", it is very hard to tell where you can expand after you have proofread it consistently and feel as though it's okay.

I know the thread's here for all of us to comment on. Maybe I just took the first 2 lines a bit too literally. "YEAH Okay, so I'm lazy and it took me for fucking ever to finish this, but it's finished now!"

I just expected a little more bulk for one of the top UU Pokemon, as Jabba has mentioned twice. I can't provide much in-depth info, as I rarely play UU.

With the Team Options sentence, I was referring to this, taken from the guide about the analysis update:
"Paragraph 4: Team perspective. What is partnered with the Pokemon that give you trouble? How can you make sure you've got an answer to them as well? Mixed Salamence takes on most of the Pokemon that are paired with the most common checks for Metagross, and provides a great defensive partner as well. There is no excuse for this section to be subjective - all the stats we need are right in front of us."
You've properly all read this, and in no way do I mean to insult anyone's intelligence by copying and pasting it is. It's just the easiest way to explain this.

Also, most of the teammate comments seem to revolve around defensive combinations (i.e. teammates who take Grass and Electric-type attacks). But there's very little mention about offensive combinations - which teammates handle the Pokemon that Milotic does not pose a threat too. For example, Milotic will never break a Blissey thanks to its enormous Special Defensive, so having a Guts Hariyama as a teammate will deal with this problem and absorb incoming Toxics. Ludicolo is another Pokemon that needs mention; both Chansey and Ludicolo should deserve a greater mention than a few words in Counters.

 

[Flashstorm1]

I'd actually like to question why Ice Beam is the main option over Hidden Power Grass on the Bulky Water set. From my experience, I actually find Ice Beam an inferior option in the UU tier for several reasons. Many of the Grass-types that are hit by Ice Beam, such as Roserade and Torterra, are capable of outrunning and OHKOing with Leaf Storm and Wood Hammer respectively, meaning you'd need to hit them on the switch. In addition, Calm variants of Roserade aren't even 2HKOed by Ice Beam, meaning they can just set up Spikes on you without no worry at all.

Although you state that Ice Beam does prevent you from being set up fodder by Altaria, I just don't see the benefits of such outweighing those of making Hidden Power Grass the obligatory option over Ice Beam. HP Grass allows Milotic to serve as more a utility wall against other Water-types who could just set up on you, like Azumarril, and also helps against opposing Milotic.

From my experience with Milotic, I can conclude that Hidden Power is always the superior option over Ice Beam, meaning it should fill the second moveslot over Ice Beam, which can be moved down to the fourth moveslot.

---

On an additional note, I'll kindly drop in and proofread the update once you implement (or publicly reject) Eo Ut Mortus's changes, since there is no need for me to proofread the same thing he did.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Bulked up the analysis some.

I'm going to be adding the offensive Team Options soon, so yeah.

 

[Heysup]

I think 8 Speed should be run on every Milotic set to outrun max Speed Adamant Aggron, since otherwise Aggron absolutely destroys Milotic, which is often a teams only answer to Pokemon like Aggron. 8 Speed will put Milotic at 200 Spe, while Aggron can only reach 199 max (outspeeding 0 Spe Milotic by 1 point).

Life Orb Head Smash vs max/max Milotic:

350 Atk vs 282 Def & 394 HP (150 Base Power): 261 - 307 (66.24% - 77.92%) (always 2HKOes)

Choice Band Head Smash vs max/max Milotic:

525 Atk vs 282 Def & 394 HP (150 Base Power): 300 - 354 (76.14% - 89.85%) (15% OHKO with SR, 100% OHKO with Spikes + SR)

They both 2HKO at the very least...I'm sure 2 defense won't really make much of a difference, when 2 speed makes a huge difference.

 

[d2m]

As Roserade is no longer UU, I don't see why it should be listed under "counters", I think the counter list is pretty solid without it, although Raikou can be mentioned as another poke that uses it as setup fodder (or you could wait till he gets voted BL).

 

[whistle]

the on site analysis isn't the greatest and this is more important now with doug's calc taking sets from the set! needs to be updated to reflect tier changes, etc, etc

<p>Item choice is a matter of preference. Choice Specs provide the maximum amount of power to punch through teams. Choice Scarf gives a solid method of revenge killing many scarfed or speed boosted threats, such as +1 Dragon Dance Altaria or Scarfed Medicham. Finally, Life Orb trades bulk for versatility. If Life Orb is used, Recover is an option in the last slot, as Milotic can use (change to "welcomes" because the way it is worded now seems to imply that Recover is an ability instead of implying that Recover gives it an ability to do something) the ability to recover the HP sheared off by Life Orb.</p>

 

[Heysup]

Yea, this really needs to get on site, there isn't a UU set in the calc at the moment, and it would be really convenient for it to be there.

This looks like it's practically ready to be uploaded once the new changes are done, at least set-wise.

The only thing I'd arguably change is the moveset for the bulky water. I think Toxic / Hidden Power Grass should be slashed since they are both for opposing Water-types, and Ice Beam is needed for Venusaur.