OK then. And thanks for going through the trouble for correcting me Sandoori.
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Pokémon Milotic
- Thread starter Aquaslash
- Start date
- Status
I personally use Milotic in all my competitive teams since its debut in gen 3. Although it was quite disappointing that Milotic only got competitive and did not get its typing changed to water/fairy which everyone has hoped for, it is generally still a very viable pokemon, even for the higher leagues such as OU.
I've tried rest talk milotic this gen and the standard moveset of scald/ice beam or toxic/haze/recover.
Rest talk is pretty good but becomes stopped in its track when a fairy type like togekiss or sylveon comes in since it relies on dragon tail to phaze. The latter can even start calm minding which can become dangerous quickly.
The latter moveset is in my opinion the best for milotic this gen. It works very well in a fire/water/grass core with things like heatran and celebi, and it's gotten me a pretty decent ladder rank on showdown. Haze has helped me turned entire games around as the sweepers set up in oblivion. Ice beam is always good especially for dragons like salamence and dragonite. But if you have good fairy types, then well replace ice beam with toxic. It's a pretty good staller.
I've never gone full on offensive with assault vest and competitive before! It sounds interesting and I'll def give it a shot. The only problem I had for an offensive milotic is its less than desirable speed especially in OU play. 81 is just not cutting it unless there's some way of increasing its speed.
If gamefreak ever changes milotic to water/fairy, I think that would be a guaranteed shot of propelling milotic back to OU since it's such a good typing, and it would be the perfect bulky water with recover and possibly another coverage move such as moonblast or dazzling gleam.
On a side note, I noticed there's an item that allows pokemon with dual abilities to exercise both its abilities in a battle, albeit in a switching manner. But nonetheless, it allows the activation of either abilities I think. Marvel scale + competitive; this seems to make milotic quite a potent contender!
I've tried rest talk milotic this gen and the standard moveset of scald/ice beam or toxic/haze/recover.
Rest talk is pretty good but becomes stopped in its track when a fairy type like togekiss or sylveon comes in since it relies on dragon tail to phaze. The latter can even start calm minding which can become dangerous quickly.
The latter moveset is in my opinion the best for milotic this gen. It works very well in a fire/water/grass core with things like heatran and celebi, and it's gotten me a pretty decent ladder rank on showdown. Haze has helped me turned entire games around as the sweepers set up in oblivion. Ice beam is always good especially for dragons like salamence and dragonite. But if you have good fairy types, then well replace ice beam with toxic. It's a pretty good staller.
I've never gone full on offensive with assault vest and competitive before! It sounds interesting and I'll def give it a shot. The only problem I had for an offensive milotic is its less than desirable speed especially in OU play. 81 is just not cutting it unless there's some way of increasing its speed.
If gamefreak ever changes milotic to water/fairy, I think that would be a guaranteed shot of propelling milotic back to OU since it's such a good typing, and it would be the perfect bulky water with recover and possibly another coverage move such as moonblast or dazzling gleam.
On a side note, I noticed there's an item that allows pokemon with dual abilities to exercise both its abilities in a battle, albeit in a switching manner. But nonetheless, it allows the activation of either abilities I think. Marvel scale + competitive; this seems to make milotic quite a potent contender!
I like the idea of offensive bulky milotic, but she seems to be outclassed by starmie in offensive area, who is in turn outclassed by suicune who can set up cms easily...
I guess the traditional defensive haze/dtail sets fare better
Good for you for using Milotic on all of your competitive teams! (I do too!:D) The standard Haze/Recover/Ice Beam/Scald has been Milotic's bread & butter set for the past decade, showing that Milotic has (kind of) stood the test of time. It's unfortunate that GF hasn't pay much attention to Milotic and when they do, she doesn't get many buffs. However if she got a Water/Dragon or a Water/Fairy and/or +10 Def stat boost like some other mons, there's not a doubt in my mind that Milotic would be OU again!
P.S.
The item you're thinking of is the Ability Capsule. It's a one-time use only item, cost 200 BP to get at the Battle Maison, and can only be used outside of battle. It does however permanently change the the ability of that Pokemon, and requires another one to change it back. It cannot be used to obtain Hidden Abilities, and does not work on Pokemon with Hidden Abilities,
I see, yea I meant the ability capsule. I did not know that it could not be used outside of battle lol so it's pretty useless but I guess it's handy if you want the other ability and you don't have to breed tons of eggs just to get that ability.
And yes, milotic certainly deserves more usage and love. It's really good with the right team support. It's amazing how its bread-and-butter set has allowed it to stand strong for so many gens and if GF ever buffs it up, I think milotic will become the premier bulky water for sure.
I used it on my vivlilion The Fear to get compound eyes, but most of the time, AC isn't worth it. But I agree on your point about Milotic, though.
Right now I'm building this set in game, and will post results asap, but I wanted some opinions if you will.
Goddamit snake won't you die.
Bold - Marvel Scale
Milotic @ Leftovers
252 Def. 252 HP. 4 SDef.
Toxic
Aqua Ring
Recover
Dragon Tail
Few pokemon can set up the Aqua Ring as easily as Milotic and few can reap so many a reward from doing so. The continued support of both Leftovers and Aqua Ring will make Toxic spreading sort of easy, limiting the use of Recover for when times get dire, while Dragon Tail helps the cause.
I really like it in theory. Right now I run a Scald-Wall milotic and sometimes I think Aqua Ring would really make a difference had I put it in.
Goddamit snake won't you die.
Bold - Marvel Scale
Milotic @ Leftovers
252 Def. 252 HP. 4 SDef.
Toxic
Aqua Ring
Recover
Dragon Tail
Few pokemon can set up the Aqua Ring as easily as Milotic and few can reap so many a reward from doing so. The continued support of both Leftovers and Aqua Ring will make Toxic spreading sort of easy, limiting the use of Recover for when times get dire, while Dragon Tail helps the cause.
I really like it in theory. Right now I run a Scald-Wall milotic and sometimes I think Aqua Ring would really make a difference had I put it in.
The irony is that toxic itself will do it in, and it is fully setup bait for bulky sub users
Toxic will always do Milotic, it's not something particular to this set, and few sets will last you a badly posioned Milotic as this one, but you should not get her in the way of common Toxic users anyway. Of course it is supposed to be the one walling, It wouldn't be wise to leave any Milotic, not just this one, in front of a Gliscor, for example.
If you are going against other, non sub walls, it has a very good chance of coming on top, but does its best against bulky sweepers.
I think it's hard for this set to work in practical. The lack of a STAB move severely hinders milotic; I mean, scald is so good because it hits relatively hard along with the chance to burn. Further, dragon tail is useless against faster sub-users or fairies. By the time you poison the fairies, they will just be calm-minding or nasty-plotting in your face.
I still think milotic works best in a bulky offense, FWG core along with sweepers to clear the way for milotic to wall and stall.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-97216886 for an example of how Milotic can really shine.
Milotic took quite a few physical hits there, how did it take them so well?
She's EV'd 252 HP / 252+ Def.
That spread is standard, I'm just so surprised it did so well.
This set sounds pretty good and it's not that hard to activate it given the prevalence of moves that cause stat changes (think crunch, shadow ball, psychic, moonblast etc) and things like sticky web. The only problem is milotic's low base speed and the significant loss of bulk without the EVs. I was looking back at its old life orb set back in gen 4 and was wondering if that spread would be a good alternative.
Milotic @ Life Orb
Ability: Competitive
152HP/ 80 Def/ 220 SpA/ 56 Speed
Modest
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Ice Beam
- HP Grass
- Recover
This was from the old metagame and I do realise the EVs will be less meaningful now given the huge changes in the game. But the loss of bulk seriously impedes milotic's stay - what's the point of getting a boost and only to get 2HKO after (unless it's purely to do huge damage on the switch; if so, then ok)? I'm not sure if this spread would make a difference but it's well worth a shot.
Assault Vest Milotic is a pretty bad idea in general. Milotic's best attributes are its bulk and recovery options. It doesn't have the speed or offensive range (thunderbolt or some other coverage move) to be a true offensive sweeper, so it's far better off using Recovery and Life Orb on any "Competitive" set.
And I've seen no mention of Mirror Coat.
Marvel Scale
Leftovers
Recover
Toxic/Haze
Mirror Coat
Scald/Surf
Random special attacks are just as common as ever. Especially from non-set-up threats (which is ideal), like Greninja and Aegislash.
Force special attackers to attack you by showing haze early. Or vice versa, show mirror coat early and force them to waste extra turns setting up (they will try to boost up to the OHKO range, the standard strat against any mon with counter or mirror coat).
Toxic has the advantage of setting a time limit on the pokemon, which encourages them to attack right into your mirror coat. It also gives you another option against pokemon where your Water STAB is useless.
If you want to be really daring you can replace haze or recover with toxic, which 100% forces them to bring out a bulky physical attacker.
The ideal EVs would be Calm and like 220 into DEF. Max HP, the rest in Sp Def.
You could also run Bold and forego SpDef altogether, but that limits what you can comfortably mirror coat. Remember you'll be switching Milotic into something.
I probably wouldn't use this set over the standard (two attacks and haze), but I'd certainly use it over anything else.
I'd also say that Haze blows Dragon Tail completely out of the water. Fairies, Subs, imperfect accuracy, and the negative priority (against bulky set-ups like Curse, or a paralyzed sweeper) are all to be considered here. And let's not act like Scald has a 90% chance of inflicting burn.
As for Starmie vs Milotic... It's completely wrong to say Milotic is outclassed by Starmie. Milotic is not weak to Pursuit, U-Turn, OR Knock Off. That alone is a huge advantage over the aquatic star. It's also a lot bulkier. And they are completely different pokemon. Milotic won't be sweeping very often, but I'd say that overall Milotic is probably a better choice than Starmie about 80% of the time.
Milotic is slightly edged out by Suicune, but they also play different roles. Suicune wishes it had an instant recovery, or the small amount of unpredictability that Milotic brings to the table.
And finally, Milotic compared to last gen: I'd say Milotic is significantly better than it was in previous gens:
--- Sleep mechanics bring back the viability of rest-talk
--- No perma sandstorm (or hail lol) hurting Milotic's durability
--- Entry hazards, while still prominent, are not quite as overdone as they were in previous gens
It won't be OU, usage wise, but I think Milotic is worth a consideration on any OU team in need of a water-type
And I've seen no mention of Mirror Coat.
Marvel Scale
Leftovers
Recover
Toxic/Haze
Mirror Coat
Scald/Surf
Random special attacks are just as common as ever. Especially from non-set-up threats (which is ideal), like Greninja and Aegislash.
Force special attackers to attack you by showing haze early. Or vice versa, show mirror coat early and force them to waste extra turns setting up (they will try to boost up to the OHKO range, the standard strat against any mon with counter or mirror coat).
Toxic has the advantage of setting a time limit on the pokemon, which encourages them to attack right into your mirror coat. It also gives you another option against pokemon where your Water STAB is useless.
If you want to be really daring you can replace haze or recover with toxic, which 100% forces them to bring out a bulky physical attacker.
The ideal EVs would be Calm and like 220 into DEF. Max HP, the rest in Sp Def.
You could also run Bold and forego SpDef altogether, but that limits what you can comfortably mirror coat. Remember you'll be switching Milotic into something.
I probably wouldn't use this set over the standard (two attacks and haze), but I'd certainly use it over anything else.
I'd also say that Haze blows Dragon Tail completely out of the water. Fairies, Subs, imperfect accuracy, and the negative priority (against bulky set-ups like Curse, or a paralyzed sweeper) are all to be considered here. And let's not act like Scald has a 90% chance of inflicting burn.
As for Starmie vs Milotic... It's completely wrong to say Milotic is outclassed by Starmie. Milotic is not weak to Pursuit, U-Turn, OR Knock Off. That alone is a huge advantage over the aquatic star. It's also a lot bulkier. And they are completely different pokemon. Milotic won't be sweeping very often, but I'd say that overall Milotic is probably a better choice than Starmie about 80% of the time.
Milotic is slightly edged out by Suicune, but they also play different roles. Suicune wishes it had an instant recovery, or the small amount of unpredictability that Milotic brings to the table.
And finally, Milotic compared to last gen: I'd say Milotic is significantly better than it was in previous gens:
--- Sleep mechanics bring back the viability of rest-talk
--- No perma sandstorm (or hail lol) hurting Milotic's durability
--- Entry hazards, while still prominent, are not quite as overdone as they were in previous gens
It won't be OU, usage wise, but I think Milotic is worth a consideration on any OU team in need of a water-type
Because it's utterly outclassed by Manaphy with better speed and Tailglow, so as not to be dependent on Defog and Intimidate.
Hmm I've experimented with competitive milotic in one of my recent teams. Whilst the team did well, I felt that competitive milotic didn't really pull its weight.
First, the activation of competitive is entirely contingent on your opponent. Without the boost, milotic's offensive prowess is less than impressive. Hydro pump misses a little too often (maybe I'm just unlucky) whilst surf just lacks that bit of power you need sometimes.
Second, ev investment in special attack compromises on its bulk. The ev spread I used was 252HP/88 def/168 Sp Atk, Modest nature with leftovers. This allowed its special attack to hit 304, which is decent. It also hits 216 def, which coupled with 394 HP isn't too shabby. This spread also guaranteed milotic's survival a little better compared to investing entirely in its speed and sp atk, bearing in mind that a base speed of 81 means that it won't be out-speeding much of the OU tier anyway, so i'd rather go with bulk.
Having said that, a competitive boost is always kinda cool and it scares your opponent as well. However, having played both offensive and defensive styles, I think the physically defensive bulky water and rest talk set with marvel scale are still the best sets for milotic in the OU tier. It allows milotic to act as a defensive pivot and the ability to troll set-up sweepers with haze or dragon tail is fabulous. Milotic with marvel scale up can be a total bitch to kill.
First, the activation of competitive is entirely contingent on your opponent. Without the boost, milotic's offensive prowess is less than impressive. Hydro pump misses a little too often (maybe I'm just unlucky) whilst surf just lacks that bit of power you need sometimes.
Second, ev investment in special attack compromises on its bulk. The ev spread I used was 252HP/88 def/168 Sp Atk, Modest nature with leftovers. This allowed its special attack to hit 304, which is decent. It also hits 216 def, which coupled with 394 HP isn't too shabby. This spread also guaranteed milotic's survival a little better compared to investing entirely in its speed and sp atk, bearing in mind that a base speed of 81 means that it won't be out-speeding much of the OU tier anyway, so i'd rather go with bulk.
Having said that, a competitive boost is always kinda cool and it scares your opponent as well. However, having played both offensive and defensive styles, I think the physically defensive bulky water and rest talk set with marvel scale are still the best sets for milotic in the OU tier. It allows milotic to act as a defensive pivot and the ability to troll set-up sweepers with haze or dragon tail is fabulous. Milotic with marvel scale up can be a total bitch to kill.
I've been trying a set similar to Mirror Mola, a set posted in the OU RMT forum that checks Charizard Y in its tracks. However it does need to be at full health as almost nothing can survive Charizard Y's attacks. It also can stop other special attackers although it needs some prediction.
Milotic@Leftovers
Nature:Calm
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
-Mirror Coat
-Dragon Tail
-Recover
-Scald
The set is simple. It works like a non-trapping wobbufet that takes Charizard Y's predicted Fire Blast and then when the oppenent used SolarBeam, you use Mirror Coat, resulting in a clean OHKO. Unless the oppenent gets a crit, or the oppenent out predicts you and uses SolarBeam on the turn you switch in, you should be fine. Yes this set is gimmicky, but usable as a special wall. Scald softens the physical attacks a bit with its chance to burn. Recover is for a reliable recovery move and dragon tail is for set-up sweepers
Ninja'ed by Reflect Suicune
Milotic@Leftovers
Nature:Calm
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
-Mirror Coat
-Dragon Tail
-Recover
-Scald
The set is simple. It works like a non-trapping wobbufet that takes Charizard Y's predicted Fire Blast and then when the oppenent used SolarBeam, you use Mirror Coat, resulting in a clean OHKO. Unless the oppenent gets a crit, or the oppenent out predicts you and uses SolarBeam on the turn you switch in, you should be fine. Yes this set is gimmicky, but usable as a special wall. Scald softens the physical attacks a bit with its chance to burn. Recover is for a reliable recovery move and dragon tail is for set-up sweepers
Ninja'ed by Reflect Suicune
You have Aegislash.. and you got 3 of your 'mons swept by Cloyster. Come on, dude. :p
Rotosect
Banned deucer.
That's not the point of the discussion here.
Physical Aegislash loses to Cloyster anyways.
What that replay showed is that Recover is a huge advantage Milotic has over similar bulky water types like Suicune and Vaporeon.
What do you guys think about a set like this?
Milotic (F) @ Binding Band
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Wrap
- Haze
- Recover
I'm just getting into competitive play and I just wanted to share what I've been trying out and maybe you can help?
I'm working on the EVs but it's great so far. Survived a ThunderPunch from an Iron Fist Infernape but I haven't seen much as I only tested this like several times.
Milotic is also pretty fine as a physical wall and a great team player.
Wrap is great with Binding Band as it does get 1/6 of health on the enemy per turn and has saved me from most battles when used right. The downside of that is maintaining Milotic's health while Wrap is in effect so recovery is there to compensate for those times health drops low. Scald is there for a stab and the chance for the burn. Haze is extremely useful to get rid of their boosts but it gets rid of your boosts too so I prefer using that when Pokemon who are obviously going to need boosts are present. So I guess it's fine to lead with Milotic due to mono typing, good bulk, and maybe also Haze? But other than that I use it to switch in when they have physical Pokemon running around then I proceed to Wrap them and Scald when an opportunity is present.
Also, are any moves worth removing for other moves like Dragon Tail or something else?
Threats
I'm afraid of Jellicent because I can barely hit it, I can't use Wrap, and Scald can't touch it. My only resort to this was to switch so yeah that's one thing. Any comments on that or suggestions because I hate that Pringle.
Remarks
Milotic works great for my team with the typing, Binding Band, and Haze. The bulk is great too but I came here seeking to improve it because I feel like there is room for improvement but what? Anyway yeah this is how I'm using her and I hope you guys can help or maybe I've helped with this. Thanks for reading and have a great day!
Milotic (F) @ Binding Band
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Wrap
- Haze
- Recover
I'm just getting into competitive play and I just wanted to share what I've been trying out and maybe you can help?
I'm working on the EVs but it's great so far. Survived a ThunderPunch from an Iron Fist Infernape but I haven't seen much as I only tested this like several times.
Milotic is also pretty fine as a physical wall and a great team player.
Wrap is great with Binding Band as it does get 1/6 of health on the enemy per turn and has saved me from most battles when used right. The downside of that is maintaining Milotic's health while Wrap is in effect so recovery is there to compensate for those times health drops low. Scald is there for a stab and the chance for the burn. Haze is extremely useful to get rid of their boosts but it gets rid of your boosts too so I prefer using that when Pokemon who are obviously going to need boosts are present. So I guess it's fine to lead with Milotic due to mono typing, good bulk, and maybe also Haze? But other than that I use it to switch in when they have physical Pokemon running around then I proceed to Wrap them and Scald when an opportunity is present.
Also, are any moves worth removing for other moves like Dragon Tail or something else?
Threats
I'm afraid of Jellicent because I can barely hit it, I can't use Wrap, and Scald can't touch it. My only resort to this was to switch so yeah that's one thing. Any comments on that or suggestions because I hate that Pringle.
Remarks
Milotic works great for my team with the typing, Binding Band, and Haze. The bulk is great too but I came here seeking to improve it because I feel like there is room for improvement but what? Anyway yeah this is how I'm using her and I hope you guys can help or maybe I've helped with this. Thanks for reading and have a great day!
I personally don't see the merit in this set. Wrap isn't a very usable move and if you do insist on using wrap, then I would say at least put toxic on milotic such that you can toxic stall your opponent whilst preventing it from switching out; I mean, that would be the point of wrap really. But tbh, it's not an OU worthy move at all.
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