Hmm. In terms of natural bulk, quagsire loses to milotic hands down. If we're talking about milotic in OU play then I don't think quagsire is very relevant lol.
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Pokémon Milotic
- Thread starter Aquaslash
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Unaware is simply too good to pass up. It makes quagsire amazing for stall. Milotic is a bulkier special attacking bisharp with recovery, but less of an offensive presence and no priority. Its main niche is in taking down mandibuzz and skarmory more easily before and after defog from what I understand.
I use a set that works as a mixed tank/Mega Charizard Y counter.
Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 248 HP / 220 SDef / 24 Def / 16 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Mirror Coat
- Recover
The special defense EVs allow it to easily tank a solar beam from Charizard Y, retaining over half its health, and OHKO in return with Mirror Coat. I have my Milotic paired with Scizor, which attracts Will-O-Wisps from Rotom-W, and gives her defense stats of 393 / 300 / 375.
Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 248 HP / 220 SDef / 24 Def / 16 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Mirror Coat
- Recover
The special defense EVs allow it to easily tank a solar beam from Charizard Y, retaining over half its health, and OHKO in return with Mirror Coat. I have my Milotic paired with Scizor, which attracts Will-O-Wisps from Rotom-W, and gives her defense stats of 393 / 300 / 375.
Tried out this set and it's not too bad. The only problem is you need excellent prediction skills. The Charizard can be a troll by roosting and stuff so it gets annoying after a while. And people thread very carefully once mirror coat is revealed so yea..gonna be really strategic with it. Sadly I'm not really one who's good with this, oh well.
And it is quite sad to see Milotic becoming RU now. This thing seriously needs more love.
I guess everyone is just obsessed with the mons that help them secure the most wins, not realising that all these older mons work just as well if played in the right team. I've used Milotic in nearly all my OU competitive teams and I've always achieved a very decent rank points hovering in the 1.6K to 1.7K range. Granted, Milotic isn't gonna be the sweeper but it can be incredibly annoying to take down if played right.
Perhaps I should post a RMT soon.
Actually, I realised Competitive Milotic need not always be offensively oriented. A defensive spread can take great advantage of it as well. The point is just to exert some offensive pressure, yet with a defensive spread such that Milotic now becomes a tank. My Competitive Milotic just swept through a team comprising Galvantula, Volcarona, Pinsir, Dragonite, Tyranitar and Greninja, after the Galvantula has set up sticky web and fainted.
And I was just using a very normal defensive spread of 252HP/252 DEF/4 SpA, Bold nature with Scald and Ice Beam as the coverage moves. Granted, that's because this opposition comprises of pokemon all weak to either water or ice, and greninja has paper-like defenses but the point is, Competitive is a very viable ability even on a defensive Milotic. At least, you won't think of it as a pathetic wall after it gets a boost and surprisingly, it is really not hard to get a boost these days.
And I was just using a very normal defensive spread of 252HP/252 DEF/4 SpA, Bold nature with Scald and Ice Beam as the coverage moves. Granted, that's because this opposition comprises of pokemon all weak to either water or ice, and greninja has paper-like defenses but the point is, Competitive is a very viable ability even on a defensive Milotic. At least, you won't think of it as a pathetic wall after it gets a boost and surprisingly, it is really not hard to get a boost these days.
This is definitely how I'd run competitive milo, since with an offensive spread you aren't increasing your sweep (anything that is a full stop to milotic will stop it with or without huge spA investment) and you are massively compromising your bulk to the point where you can easily be revenged. However with a defensive spread, you become a very hard hitting tank. I think competitive seems like a better ability for the sets with recover, while obviously marvel scale + resttalk need to be paired together
I used Milo on almost every team until gen6, where I feel she has fallen behind a bit :( but with competitive she seems to have a new niche.
Deleted User 220884
Banned deucer.
Is running 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Sp.Def Marvel Scale with Rocky Helmet, viable?
Leftovers is better
In my experience, she checks him regardless, with even an uninvested Ice Beam putting a large gaping hole in him, if not outright killing him. He can barely manage a 3HKO, and he'd be long dead by then.
Actually, I think by the definitions, Milotic straight up hard counters most Lando-T sets. Granted, she might lose if you do something dumb like try to come in on the boosting variants after they've set up, but that's true for most things.
Max HP and Def is the best in my opinion :) But be sure to pack things that can take down the pink blobs, mega venusaur, ferrothorn and rotom w (unless u run HP grass but not very worthwhile tbh since gastrodon isn't that common anyway).
Water and Ice moves get surprisingly good coverage :O
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And you're right, Competitive seems to be the superior ability for Milotic now because it's really not hard to get a boost and I've even battled against opponents that were cautious with using defog when Milotic was still around; this really goes to show that people (at least some do) are starting to realise the value of Milotic as a defog deterrent and that's good enough sometimes.
It's not as scary as Bisharp of course but if played right, a boosted Milotic can be annoying because it is bulky enough to soak up most hits (even defensive rotom w these days don't manage 50% with volt switch and this is w/o investment in sp def mind you) and retaliate back with powerful water and ice moves with secondary effects. A boosted scald + burn happening = so much win and annoyance in life.
Milotic is also the premier baton pass cockblocker thanks to haze. And it's not even that hard to fit into a team as part of a FWG core! Outclass or not is beside the point for it has a different niche now.
It's not as scary as Bisharp of course but if played right, a boosted Milotic can be annoying because it is bulky enough to soak up most hits (even defensive rotom w these days don't manage 50% with volt switch and this is w/o investment in sp def mind you) and retaliate back with powerful water and ice moves with secondary effects. A boosted scald + burn happening = so much win and annoyance in life.
Milotic is also the premier baton pass cockblocker thanks to haze. And it's not even that hard to fit into a team as part of a FWG core! Outclass or not is beside the point for it has a different niche now.
I used for a while a core Heatran-Milotic-Mega Venusaur (and Sylveon for whish), and makes wonder. Not only the trio is very hard to take down, but they share a great sinergy, allowing many switches and slowly corroding opposing teams, opening the way for the sweepers.
Milotic runs Scald/Ice Beam/Recover/Dragon Pulse. I know the latter is odd, but Milo attracts lots of water types, so, depending on the situation, instead of switching in Venu, Milotic stays and attack with the unresisted move (I had some KO on low health enemies thanks to surprise effect).
Milotic runs Scald/Ice Beam/Recover/Dragon Pulse. I know the latter is odd, but Milo attracts lots of water types, so, depending on the situation, instead of switching in Venu, Milotic stays and attack with the unresisted move (I had some KO on low health enemies thanks to surprise effect).
Does Competitive trigger on a self-induced stat-lowering? Does Haze trigger it? I'm just not seeing many realistic scenarios where a high level player triggers the ability, even accidentally. What has intimidate that you are actually going to bring in against Milo?
The only thing I can think of is Sticky Web, and that's not quite popular enough to justify it on its own.
I'll admit though, I haven't actually tried it... uhh... competitively (sorry).
This thread has at least convinced me to go give it a shot the next time I make a team.
The only thing I can think of is Sticky Web, and that's not quite popular enough to justify it on its own.
I'll admit though, I haven't actually tried it... uhh... competitively (sorry).
This thread has at least convinced me to go give it a shot the next time I make a team.
Defog. Defog actives Competitive and Defiant because of the stat reduction part of the move.
Defog, sticky web, intimidate and even average seen moves like low sweep and moonblast will trigger Comp.
However the first 3 are much easier scenarios to nab the boost in the tier.
Edit: self inflicted effects are not applicable
Haze and clear smog resets stat changes, not directly lowering them (i.e. atkstage == 0; not atkstage == atkstage - 1), therefore does not trigger defiant nor comp.
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Right I know all of that theoretical stuff, but my question is in the real world; what actual things will actually work on Milotic? No one is going to bring in their Intimidate Landorus against a bulky water anyway. You can't really switch Milo into Defog Zapdos. Aegislash doesn't work at all. Low Sweep usually comes from Breloom, which you again cannot actually switch Milotic in on.
Defiant Bisharp works because he can realistically pull a few of those tricks, since he traps Aegislash w/ Pursuit, and immunity to Intimidate works as a bonus even if you never get intimidated (since he's a physical attacker). Milotic misses out on both those perks. You can name a full list of things that CAN trigger Competitive, but how many of those things will actually happen? More importantly, what can you do to increase the chances of them happening (and exploiting them successfully)?
I forgot about Shadow Ball/Moonblast/Psychic though. That's kind of a fun bonus. Gives you a chance of punishing Sylveon and GengarThat makes me think running a specially bulky Milo is probably the best way to go. At least that way you can switch in on Lati@s, Sylveon, Gardy, etc... AND actually beat them one on one.
I just ran some calcs... with 252 SpAtk EVs, and a neutral nature: +2 Milotic 2hko's Aegislash with Surf (even if it stays in Shield form). It 2hko's Mandibuzz, Pinsir... It 2hko's Greninja no matter what type it is (and even if it stays a water type). It 2hko's Tyranitar, even in Sand.
(all of these are even after leftovers recovery).
So if you can actually get this thing a boost, there's no question you could do some serious damage. And none of the above Pokemon can ohko Milotic, either. And Hydro Pump obviously does even more damage, but I'm not a fan of Hydro Miss.
If I were building a team with Milo, I'd make it Calm, 252 HP, 252 SpAtk, lefties, and I'd put it on a team built over Spikes, and Stealth Rock (and maybe Toxic Spikes too). That way you can continuously punish Defog users, and if they don't have Defog, you still win.
Defiant Bisharp works because he can realistically pull a few of those tricks, since he traps Aegislash w/ Pursuit, and immunity to Intimidate works as a bonus even if you never get intimidated (since he's a physical attacker). Milotic misses out on both those perks. You can name a full list of things that CAN trigger Competitive, but how many of those things will actually happen? More importantly, what can you do to increase the chances of them happening (and exploiting them successfully)?
I forgot about Shadow Ball/Moonblast/Psychic though. That's kind of a fun bonus. Gives you a chance of punishing Sylveon and GengarThat makes me think running a specially bulky Milo is probably the best way to go. At least that way you can switch in on Lati@s, Sylveon, Gardy, etc... AND actually beat them one on one.
I just ran some calcs... with 252 SpAtk EVs, and a neutral nature: +2 Milotic 2hko's Aegislash with Surf (even if it stays in Shield form). It 2hko's Mandibuzz, Pinsir... It 2hko's Greninja no matter what type it is (and even if it stays a water type). It 2hko's Tyranitar, even in Sand.
(all of these are even after leftovers recovery).
So if you can actually get this thing a boost, there's no question you could do some serious damage. And none of the above Pokemon can ohko Milotic, either. And Hydro Pump obviously does even more damage, but I'm not a fan of Hydro Miss.
If I were building a team with Milo, I'd make it Calm, 252 HP, 252 SpAtk, lefties, and I'd put it on a team built over Spikes, and Stealth Rock (and maybe Toxic Spikes too). That way you can continuously punish Defog users, and if they don't have Defog, you still win.
I personally don't think Milotic should ever be roaming the OU tier without any physical defense evs and a Bold nature because her base defense is really quite low. Without defense investment, Milotic can't survive many of the OU hard hitters' attacks. That is why I would advocate the standard physically defensive spread for it in OU.
The aim of using Competitive on Milotic is more of a deterrent effect against opposing defogs and to instantly transform Milotic into a tank. Why use surf and hydro miss when you have scald, an awesome water move with a good burn rate that is invaluable? The point is, Milotic really doesn't need to sweep; to me, it serves a different purpose compared to Bisharp and their typings are dramatically different so it really depends on what you want to fit on your team. You want hyper offense? Run Bisharp. You want bulky offense with a strong FWG core? Run Milotic.
Even without sp def investment, gengar without tbolt is not a threat. Bulky zapdos with zero ev in sp atk can't even 2hko Milotic and if you're lucky in predicting a defog and get that boost, Milotic can KO zapdos or at least deal super heavy damage. Obviously, Milotic should never come in on Breloom. And I don't agree with you that Breloom with low sweep is very popular. Most brelooms still run the standard bullet seed and mach punch set. Besides, Bisharp dies to Breloom anyway if you really want to compare.
In all, you trade a little offensive power for better durability in order to survive in the current OU metagame which to me, is worth it. As mentioned in earlier posts, there is no point investing too much in sp atk such that it compromises on bulk because whatever can stop Milotic will stop it regardless i.e. chansey, blissey, sp defensive rotom-w. Is aegislash really a threat to Milotic? I think not because scald can easily destroy aegislash, especially with the added burn rate. The same goes for Gyarados and Mawile (they have intimidates and some of them actually think they can come in on Milotic with impunity); with defense evs, Milotic is now able to handle them (just play smart with Mawile since it is always slower than Milotic and play rough will never ohko Milotic. Gyarados is deathly afraid of a burn but avoid those with substitute as it gets troublesome. Then again, Milotic is not a hard counter against Gyara unless it runs HP electric which no one does anymore. Milotic is at best, a second check to those gyarados without substitute). And greninja is even more of a joke to Milotic because even with life orb and 0 sp def evs for Milotic, Milotic is at best 3HKO by its dark pulse (again, play smart!). Only those with grass knot are a threat to Milotic. A Milotic at good health is certainly able to keep greninja in check and burn it to death. A competitive boost to a Milotic with 0 sp atk evs can still deal heavy damage to greninja using just scald.
So my point really is, it is just not true that Milotic can't pull those tricks like what you have asserted. It all boils down to your strategy at the end of the day. Comparing Milotic with Bisharp is just moot because we have to acknowledge that the two are played differently even if they serve the same role as defog deterrents. We all agree that Bisharp has priority along with its excellent base attack stat of 125 but it doesn't mean Milotic is useless. Play to Milotic's strengths and I guarantee that it would not disappoint.
EDIT: So with defense evs, you can now deal with tyranitar and obviously if you had gotten a boost before that then tyranitar can be easily blown away by Milotic. My preferred set is still 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Sp. Atk, Bold nature with scald, ice beam, haze/toxic/dragon pulse/dragon tail/ and recover.
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