1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Miltank [QC 2/3] (Writing)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Brawlfest, Jan 12, 2014.

  1. Brawlfest

    Brawlfest The Hax God
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    838
    [Overview]
    • Great base speed for a pokemon with access to stealth rocks
    • Good mixed bulk
    • Decent offensive presence
    • Great Support / Utility mon
    • Reliable recovery
    • Walled by common ghosts if lacking Scrappy or Punishment
    • Weak to the common fighting type
    • SubPar defensive typing, with a single Immunity to ghost, relying purely on it's abilities for other resistances. That being said, it has 3 great abilities offering a slew of immunities and resistances, as well as a way to reliably hit ghosts
    • It has major four moveslot syndrome, as it automatically needs Milk Drink, leaving it with only three slots to achieve any single goal it has.
    [Set]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Milk Drink
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Heal Bell / Toxic
    move 4: Body Slam / Return
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Thick Fat
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • 95 | 105 | 70 Defenses provide good bulk on both ends
    • Body Slam helps spread paralysis, Return is a reliable mono-attack as well
    • Stealth Rocks can help to support its team, as well as via Toxic and Thunder Wave
    • Milk Drink gives it a reliable form of recovery
    • Heal Bell allows miltank to support it's team by removing status
    • Thick fat makes for a great check to Charizard, Regice, and other Fire / Ice types.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Sap Sipper can be used since with defensive Miltank also gets great utility in pivoting into grass type moves.
    • Thunder Wave is a great option against more offensive teams in supporting your attackers.
    • Seismic Toss can be used as an alternative primary attack.
    • CB Golurk is an amazing partner, as it appreciates Paralysis as well as Rock, and can sponge fighting hits for Miltank. Musharna and other Ghost types also help to sponge hits from it's super effective type, while Miltank's stealth rocks can also be preserved by ghosts. Finally, Garbodor is a great partner, taking fighting hits and setting up a different layer of hazards.
    • In terms of more offensive partners, the removal of Regice and Charizard greatly aids grass type sweepers such as SubCM Serperior and Rain Dance Ludicolo.
    • Using a spread of 236 HP / 136 SDef / 136 Spd lets you jump Adamant Sawk in speed, and also still maintain defense with a Jump point in Special Defense!
    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Milk Drink
    move 2: Double Edge / Return
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Ice Punch / Punishment / Heal Bell
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Sap Sipper / Scrappy
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • 100 Base Speed allows it to outspeed a large portion of the metagame, making it extremely quick
    • Solid base 80 attack allows it to hit hard when equipped with a life orb
    • Milk Drink helps it recover recoil damage, allowing it to be an all out attacker, but also to sponge hits for it's team
    • Double Edge is the strongest viable normal move miltank has, while Return is more reliable and causes less recoil
    • Earthquake helps Miltank hit steels and rock types which typically wall it.
    • Punishment can be used to cover Ghosts, but Ice Punch lets it hit Golurk and Drifblim slightly harder. Heal Bell can be used in tangent with Scrappy, since the coverage on ghosts is no longer needed and thus Heal Bells utility is appreciated.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Body Slam can be used as main STAB to spread paralysis, but this set needs the added power
    • Toxic can be used over Punishment, to hit walls on the switch and cripple them
    • Appreciates Misdreavus and Musharna, who can cripple opposing teams with status to let miltank sweep, as well as to absorb fighting attacks aimed at miltank.
    • Garbodor is an amazing partner, as it can absorb fighting attacks, as well as set up spikes / toxic spikes to make Miltank's job easier. It also enjoys aid from Skuntank, who offensively beats a lot of Miltank's more nasty checks such as Misdreavus and Musharna via a pursuit trap.
    [SET]
    set: Curse
    move 1: Curse
    move 2: Body Slam / Return
    move 3: Milk Drink
    move 4: Heal Bell
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Scrappy
    nature: Calm
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Good alternative bulky setup sweeper
    • Milk Drink + Natural Bulk sets it apart from it's competition e.g. Gurdurr and Floatzel
    • Moodoo especially appreciates help from pokemon to deal with Mandibuzz such as Eelektross, LO Samurott, Rotom, or other strong special attackers, as Mandibuzz easily runs through this set dryly between Taunt and Toxic, while whirlwinding you out after you've accumulated any boosts.
    • After one to two curses most physical attackers are incapable of dealing with it
    • Body Slam helps it paralyze opponents, but return hits harder
    • Scrappy lets it function well as a mono-attacker, unlike Vigoroth or Gurdurr
    • Heal Bell lets it continue sweeping regardless of status.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • More than the other sets, this set appreciates Toxic Spikes, as while it is setting up it can toxic stall, which makes Garbodor and Roselia again, amazing partners to help set Toxic Spikes as well as absorb Fighting moves.
    • This set pairs well with other bulky sweepers, as they wear down each other's checks and counters, so Duosion, Musharna, and Gurdurr all make great partners.
    • Thick Fat can be used if your team fears strong fire / ice attacks, although Scrappy is preferred due to the mono-attacking nature of the set.
    • Earthquake can be used over Heal Bell for a more offensive take on Moodoo.\
    • Moodoo especially appreciates help from pokemon to deal with Mandibuzz such as Eelektross, LO Samurott, Rotom, or other strong special attackers, as Mandibuzz easily runs through this set dryly between Taunt and Toxic, while whirlwinding you out after you've accumulated any boosts.
    [Other Options]
    • Zen Headbutt can hit Fighting-types on the switch, but it is difficult to fit onto any set
    • Fire Punch and ThunderPunch can hit specific targets 4x effectively, but Return and Double-Edge equal/outmatch their damage output on anything else
    • Hammer Arm or Gyro Ball on Curse set, but they are mediocre options
    • In order to beat Rock or Steel types, Miltank can employ Brick Break, but it is generally inferior to Earthquake.
    • RestTalk can be used as an alternative to Milk Drink + Heal Bell to heal off and rid yourself of status, but it is unreliable and frankly less practical.
    • Miltank has access to both Sunny Day and Rain Dance, but with no safe way to switch out to it's weather abusing allies without them taking damage, and a lack of priority setup, it is comparably worse than such weather setters as Volbeat and Liepard.
    [Checks & Counters]
    • Gurdurr can set up in its face
    • Probopass can somewhat stall it out
    • Taunt, Encore, and Trick are extremely annoying for this set
    • CB Sawk avoids OHKO from Moofensive from full health, OHKO'ing back
    • Throh can set up against Miltank and Circle Throw Moodoo
    • Alomomola walls Moofensive
    • Misdreavus and other ghosts can Burn, Taunt, and wall non-Scrappy Miltank
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
  2. Magcargo

    Magcargo
    is a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Messages:
    1,327
    Brawlfest Your format is incorrect. There should only be one Checks and counters section at the end and an Other Options section before that. View this for more details.
  3. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    1,878
    For Mootility, Seismic Toss probably shouldn't be slashed because it's weak :( and if you really don't want paralysis Return is probably better anyway. Also the offensive set shouldn't run Heal Bell or Brick Break, the former because there's hardly time for it and Miltank needs Punishment to hit Haunter and Drifblim, though it can go to AC. Meanwhile Brick Break doesn't hit anything harder than Earthquake, apart from Cradily and misses out on Metang. I'd also say Return should be slashed before Double-Edge due to recoil issues but that's just me.

    I'm not QC but two cents
  4. FireMage

    FireMage Say Goodnight!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,512
    I thought I had reserved Miltank

    Add the following points to the overview
    • Great Support / Utility mon
    • Access to the rare Heal Bell
    • Fastest Stealth rock user in the tier
    • Blessed with three great abilities.
    • Reliable recovery

      Mootility set should look like this

      [SET]
      name: Mootility
      move 1: Heal Bell
      move 2: Milk Drink / Stealth Rock
      move 3: Body Slam / Return
      move 4: Toxic / Milk Drink
      item: Leftovers
      ability: Thick Fat
      nature: Careful
      evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef


      MooDoo set should have Hammer Arm or at least Earthquake in it - It's helpless against Steel types otherwise.


      Alomomola screws with every variant of Miltank.


      I'll add more when it's not 7am.
  5. Brawlfest

    Brawlfest The Hax God
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    838
    Sorry I was informed by Dat Blast that it was free.. :[
    On the other note making changes.

    FireMage I believe that Toxic should be slashed with Stealth Rocks only because Milk Drink and Heal Bell are absolute essentials for Mootility to have..

    On the other not I would love to put Hammer Arm or EQ on the Moodoo set, but am having trouble placing it. Without Milk Drink, it will be killed off quickly. If it lacks Heal Bell / Sub, status immediatly cripples it. Without Curse, then it isn't any different from other Moo sets. And without STAB, it finds itself hitting with sub-par power. I'll think about it on my way to school.

    I will edit format once I come home.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2014
  6. FireMage

    FireMage Say Goodnight!
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,512
    Slash Milk Drink with Heal Bell - It doesn't need both.

    I use Miltank with one or the other - I never find I need both on the same set at any given point (Except once)

    Toxic is almost a necessity on the utility set to get around both Alomomola and Misdreavus [Although you're not staying in on either without Heal Bell] (and as a last ditch move to cripple a wall) - Two mons that Miltank absolutely loathes. Granted if you have another Stealth Rocker then you can use something over SR. But I've found that a speedy SR is useful.
  7. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF MERCY TO YOU!?!?
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    754
    That was like a month and a half ago... :[

    Anyway taking a quick look over the sets you should probably slash Sap Sipper with Thick Fat on Mootility, generally not worth losing to Zard + Jynx but owning Serperior + Sleep Powder users + Grass-types in general is pretty good.

    Moofensive should have Ice Punch > Punishment, deals way more damage to Drifblim and Golurk and still does a respectable amount to Haunter. You could probably keep Punishment slashed for now but Ice Punch definitely goes first imo. Sap Sipper should also be the only ability as the Attack boost is really needed since Miltank isn't that strong.

    MooDoo shouldn't have Substitute slashed because since Curse is lowering your Speed you become more vulnerable to slower mons Toxicing you.

    Will post more when I get home from school
  8. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,039
    I know I told you this, but Soulgazer changed my mind about the alternate evs for mootility. You can ditch it. :P

    [Overview]
    I hope you don't forget to mention that it has 2 resistances WITH THICK FAT (and 1 immunity)when you write this up. :pimp: Heal Bell should be mentioned as a particular example with the point about decent support moves.. I would merge the point about reliable recovery with the mention of its good mixed bulk.

    Mootility
    [SET]
    It's Stealth Rock, not Stealth Rocks. :mad:

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Not "amazing" bulk as much as "good" bulk on both ends. 95/70 in practice is decent/good when fully invested, so its great special walling capabilities comes from its resistances more than anything.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    Thunder Wave should be immediate mention, as it is still a very good move. Toxic and Heal Bell are great in handling more bulky teams, but Thunder Wave is better if you have trouble dealing with offensive teams (this needs a mention). Needs a couple more teammates. Fighting resists are good, including Mushy and Missy (they also appreciate Heal Bell support as it means they don't have to run it, while Missy is a spinblocker too). Miltank provides good support with Heal Bell, Toxic, and Stealth Rock to wear down opposing defensive Pokes, so set up Pokes such as SubBU Braviary/BU Gurdurr, CM Serperior, etc. Golurk mention should take note that Twave isn't in the main set as of now.

    Moofensive
    [SET]
    I also kind of want Sap Sipper to go first

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Without a boost, base 80 Atk is actually average. Don't say it hits hard, since its not that strong unless it has a boost (making Sap Sipper more helpful here imo).

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    You need to explain what (T)Spikes support grants you, otherwise you have to remove it. Retaliate to OO imo, its not really that great if it ends up being your only STAB move (using both Double Edge/Return and Retaliate is foolish).

    Moodoo
    [SET COMMENTS]
    You actually don't have Substitute slashed, so don't mention it. When you write this up, Scrappy mention should either go with Body Slam/Return, or else come after you explain the moves.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    You can move Sub here I guess.

    [Other Options]
    <Don't forget meeee!>

    [Checks and Counters]
    It's a bit confusing, especially since they still seem to be written for specific sets. Please re-write this section as well.

    Also, remove the extra spacing between AC and the sets.:toast:
    Brawlfest likes this.
  9. Brawlfest

    Brawlfest The Hax God
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    838
    Ill work on changes over the weekend! :]
  10. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,485
    You may want to fix this, this makes no sense.
  11. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,039
    It's the weekend Brawlfest !!:toast:

    Yeah, I thought I had mentioned what Swamp-Rocket pointed out, but guess not. Obviously the slot should be Heal Bell / Toxic.

    I'll give you a small head start on OO because I'm hoping this will be ready for QC checks soon.

    [Other Options]
    • Zen Headbutt can hit Fighting-types on the switch, but it is difficult to fit onto any set
    • Fire Punch, ThunderPunch, and Ice Punch can hit specific targets 4x effectively, but Return and Double-Edge equal/outmatch their damage output on anything else
    • Hammer Arm or Gyro Ball on Curse set, but they are mediocre options
  12. Brawlfest

    Brawlfest The Hax God
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    838
    Unplanned homework is getting in the way. I'm trying to catch some sort of break hopefully though..
  13. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,391
    Brawlfest are you still working on this? no rush just want to make sure.

    Remove every mention of Scolipede and Jynx too!
  14. Brawlfest

    Brawlfest The Hax God
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    838
    I'm totally going to work on this man..I've just been swamped up to my neck recently. I'll start editing now.

    EDITED :]
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2014
  15. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF MERCY TO YOU!?!?
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    754
    [Overview]
    • Merge all these points since each pair mainly covers the same thing. The first two cover its great abilities, the next two cover its supportive qualities, and the last two cover its Speed.
    • You need to give some of Miltank's cons, such as its Fighting weakness, huge 4MSS, and lack of resistances outside of its abilities which makes it prone to being overwhelmed by strong attackers.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Mootility)
    • Give Sap Sipper a big mention here, if not a full slash. Especially with Jynx gone Thick Fat only has one common use (Charizard), and while Zard in itself is a pretty big reason to use Thick Fat it makes Moo much less useful vs teams that don't have Zard. Grass-types overall are much more common so Sap Sipper definitely has its uses.
    • Also Thunder Wave gets a big mention here as its extremely useful for offensive teams and more reliable than Body Slam.
    • Give more partners; Mushy synergizes well and can use Heal Bell so Moo doesn't have to, Ghost-types in general appreciate its support (not just Golurk), Garbodor sponges Fighting hits and sets up Spikes alongside Moo's SR, etc.
    [SET] (Moofensive)
    • Sap Sipper definitely goes first here imo. I honestly would prefer Scrappy in AC, as Miltank isn't that strong without a boost and an immunity is also great since offensive Miltank is a lot less bulky. You could also mention that with Scrappy, you could use something like Heal Bell in the last slot since you don't need coverage on Ghosts.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Moofensive)
    • No Scolipede :mad:
    • No Retaliate either, OO material at best and even that's a little shaky.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Moodoo)
    • Put EQ here, it's a decent option over Heal Bell for coverage against Rock- and Steel-types but makes you prone to status.
    [Other Options]
    • Goes before Checks and Counters:mad::mad:
    • Remove Ice Punch as it's listed on Moofensive.
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Sawk gets 2HKOed easily by Moofensive but mention that it can take any one hit at full and OHKO back.
    • No Tangela, Sap Sipper variants own it, it's setup fodder for Moodoo, and Toxic variants of Mootility also beat it (after it's slept something ofc). On Alomomola, mention that it (along with other defensive walls) only really check Moofensive.
    • On the Missy point, mention Ghost-types in general (Golurk, Haunter, etc.)
    A shitton of stuff to implement Brawlfest but that's normal for your first analysis. Do this stuff and tag me back later :]
  16. WhiteDMist

    WhiteDMist PU! We don't stink though!
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,039
    I think you might have accidentally deleted the point about Thunder Wave on the Mootility set. Just remember to add it back again, along with Dat Blast's changes when you get around to it. Also, for Other Options you list Hammer Arms twice, so I would just mention it on the Curse set alone. OO is still in the wrong place though. :mad:

    You still lack a lot of partners outside of the rather generic Spikes setters and Golurk (only in the first set). Mootility handles Charizard and Regice pretty well, so Grass-types are particularly notable partners (Ludicolo, Mixed Shiftry, CM Serp for offensive teams/Roselia and Tangela for stallish teams). But generally offensive teams appreciate the SR, cleric, and Toxic support the most.

    Moofensive appreciates Grass-type lures as it is actually rather mediocre in strength without a boost, so Seismitoad is a great partner for this to set up Rocks and lure them in. Ditch Retaliate from AC like Dat Blast said, it is just not that good (especially if you are trying to switch into a Grass move, you want to take the hit, not let your teammate do so).

    Moodoo needs Fighting-types out of the way to start setting up at all, so Musharna is a good teammate to handle them. Golurk is also an interesting teammate as it can check Fighting-types, set up SR, and take out Rock and Steel mons that wall you for the most part. A strong special attacker that can deal with Mandibuzz is a REQUIREMENT if you want Curse Miltank to work (Taunt and Toxic beats you, and Whirlwind can keep forcing you out). SpecsZard, Samurott, Rotom-A are all some helpful options in their own way.
  17. Brawlfest

    Brawlfest The Hax God
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    838
    WhiteDMist likes this.
  18. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF MERCY TO YOU!?!?
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    754
    [Overview]
    • You still need to list Miltank's cons (see my last post for examples). If you don't list cons than Moo looks like a perfect Pokemon that has no drawbacks to use.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Moofensive)
    • You mention Heal Bell here when it's already listed on the set.
    [SET COMMENTS] (Moodoo)
    • Move the mention of partners that can beat Mandibuzz to AC.
    Add these Brawlfest and I'll stamp
  19. Brawlfest

    Brawlfest The Hax God
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    838
    swagstampit Dat Blast
  20. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF MERCY TO YOU!?!?
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    754
    Move this to AC.

    QC 1/3
  21. Brawlfest

    Brawlfest The Hax God
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    838
  22. tennisace

    tennisace
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Twitter Head

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    6,829
    This looks good but per order of king_oglemi no silly names unless they have historical significance (crocune, tyraniboah). Change them and write it up Brawlfest

    [​IMG]
  23. Brawlfest

    Brawlfest The Hax God
    is an official Team Rateris a Community Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    838
    Ok Tennis :] Changed them to Utility, All-Out Attacker, and Curse :]

    Ill start write up soon
    tennisace likes this.
  24. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,429
  25. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,429

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)