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Metagame Misdreavus = dead, Fletchling = alive
- Thread starter blarajan
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Aaron's Aron
A concussion update in my info tab
Well like I said before, few of these checks can really switch in on Misdreavus. Often something has to to be sacrificed in order for that check to come in, so it is already at least a 1-for-1 deal. Often times Misdreavus might be able to get another KO or contribute to another, so it could be even a 2-for-1 as well.
I think a large part of the frustration with Misdreavus is the frustration caused by its incredible quality of risk aversion. Once Misdreavus comes in safely, it's almost guaranteed that you're going to have to throw something away to it to get it into revenge KO range on a standard offensive team, and because of its speed you often have to use a scarfer because the only priority it's weak to is Sucker Punch. Once you take it out it out you're the one forced to find a way to pick up momentum again. I think this is part of why on paper Misdreavus is more broken than it turns out to be in practice, and that's not to say that it isn't broken in practice. Unboosted hits are 2KOing almost anything that doesn't resist its STAB attacks. Anything that survives a boosted Misdreavus hit is going to be a crippled wall, and there's not as much counterplay as there should be because of the aforementioned safety net afforded to Misdreavus because of its typing/ability giving it immunities and making it somewhat difficult to hit super effectively. Yes, a properly built team can handle Misdreavus with relatively little difficulty, but it's almost guaranteed the cost you must pay is easily more than what they lose once you KO the thing. It partially comes down to whether or not almost always having the better play available simply by having Missy on the field is too strong. It isn't quite as easy to brute force through a team as some would make it out to be, but you have nothing to lose by trying.
Just my thoughts :p
In addition to the above, I'd like to mention that Misdreavus isn't just a Nasty Plot sweeper. It has the ability to run as a status platform, with Will-o-Wisp, Toxic, or even Thunder Wave if you want. With it's immunity to Rapid Spin and ability to Taunt Defog users, Misdreavus is probably the best Pokemon in the tier at keeping hazards on the field. Trick and 19 Speed makes it a fantastic Scarfer, capable of luring and OHKOing Pawniard with HP Fight and crippling walls with a Choice item. Any one of it's sets could have Destiny Bond on it, guaranteeing a 1-for-1 on anything it couldn't normally KO. Memento is also there as a sacrificial move, and besides Cottonee and Diglett is its fastest user. Pain Split is available as a recovery option if you find Misdreavus not sticking around long enough. Misdreavus can be easy to remove from play, with the caveat of "once you know its set" tacked onto the end. Until then, switching into Misdreavus can be daunting because you have no idea what is safe or not. If Misdreavus were only a Nasty Plot sweeper, then it might be predictable enough to stay in the tier, especially for as long as a Scarfer capable of OHKOing it in Pawniard exists in the tier. However, the fact that it has so many options and the stats to use them heavily contributes to why I feel Misdreavus is broken.
Fletching. He's a s-rank pokemon, even if he's latest for usage (4° with a 30.82617%) among them. His power is fastened to his ability, Gale Wings which gives priority to all Flying-type moves. Gale Wings Acrobatics is surely a deadly weapon, you can use it with a Berry Juice (rarely) or without item, so its power will be double, so definitively a SD Acrobatic, could be deadly. Fighting (so common in LC) and Grass type (for sun team?) are his "favorite" victims.
But that's all, speaking about "good news".
Fletchling has a small movepool, so its options are limited. Priority as Acrobatic, Roost, Tailwind (i think this support move should be evaluate a few), then SD, U-turn for exit from battlefield. Then some mixed sets with Naughty nature for HP Ground/Overheat; Natural Gift and Apicot Berry I think have to be consider like a gimmick, althought I use that and it's quite effective.So limited movepool. Insufficient stats, physical attack too, but also speed and defense stats are insufficient. Suffering for SR, difficulty with Sturdy pokemons, is also easily scoutable if Fletchling holding an item, seeing how Acrobatics is hitting.
And many lethal enemies.Too many.
Tirtouga, general Rock-Types and also Archen, Magnemite, Tirtouga, Chinchou, Common and lethal. But bulky pokemon could kill him too. Some example:
So my little cent about, it's not broken. I think (another cent for me, please), it's odd for him to be suspect. Sincerely.
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GlassGlaceon
My heart has now been set on love
Assuming Fletch SDs on the switch, which it often will, those 3HKOS turn into 2HKOs ;@
Fletching. He's a s-rank pokemon, even if he's latest for usage (4° with a 30.82617%) among them. His power is fastened to his ability, Gale Wings which gives priority to all Flying-type moves. Gale Wings Acrobatics is surely a deadly weapon, you can use it with a Berry Juice (rarely) or without item, so its power will be double, so definitively a SD Acrobatic, could be deadly. Fighting (so common in LC) and Grass type (for sun team?) are his "favorite" victims.
But that's all, speaking about "good news".
Fletchling has a small movepool, so its options are limited. Priority as Acrobatic, Roost, Tailwind (i think this support move should be evaluate a few), then SD, U-turn for exit from battlefield. Then some mixed sets with Naughty nature for HP Ground/Overheat; Natural Gift and Apicot Berry I think have to be consider like a gimmick, althought I use that and it's quite effective.So limited movepool. Insufficient stats, physical attack too, but also speed and defense stats are insufficient. Suffering for SR, difficulty with Sturdy pokemons, is also easily scoutable if Fletchling holding an item, seeing how Acrobatics is hitting.
And many lethal enemies.Too many.
Tirtouga, general Rock-Types and also Archen, Magnemite, Tirtouga, Chinchou, Common and lethal. But bulky pokemon could kill him too. Some example:
So my little cent about, it's not broken. I think (another cent for me, please), it's odd for him to be suspect. Sincerely.
True. Thanks for fixing. However it seems a bad scenario for Fletching.
the thing i never understood about this sort of argument is that it in a sense applies to sooo many different pokemon. why does a pokemon's set have to be predictable for it to be fair. i play OU mostly and i don't think i ever play a match where i don't have to sack or take daunting risks just to find out sets. arbitrary example would be rotom-w. if i have a pokemon like azumarill out, i have to switch. let's say i have a mawile, a lando, and a chansey in the back. if i switch into lando and he v-switches, i'm gravy. if i stay in and he hydros, i'm gravy. if i switch into lando and he hyrdros, fuck. if i switch into chansey and he v-switches he gets momentum. if i switch into chansey and he hydros, i'm in a good position. if i switch into chansey and he will-o's i'm in a good position. if i switch into mawile and he hydros or will-o's i'm in a bad position.. if i stay in and he v-switches/will-o's i'm in a bad one. and if i switch into chansey and he tricks me a choice scarf (what might be considered my safest option, chansey), my cleric is ruined. now let's say, theoretically, i switch in on a v-switch on my lando, a pretty good position, only to find out he's specially defensive rotom, not physically. now i lose my lando.
maybe this isn't a perfect example because rotom-w doesn't have as much variation as missy, but it does have at least 3-4 sets that i know about (not including sets that are the same with slight variations, like physically defensive with pain split vs rest). but there are several pokemon in OU that could be running any of 10s of sets. i mean, charizard? good god. a charizard comes in and you don't have a clue what's about to happen. i don't know how many matches i've lost just because i predicted the wrong charizard before mega evolving. clefable has too many options. garchomp has so many sets that i don't even know where to begin. scarfchomp, sash chomp, SR chomp, several variations of mega chomp, rocky helmet, special sweeper, physical sweeper, mixed sweeper.
sometimes you have to scout to discover sets. this is pokemon where there are hundreds of moves, items, 25 natures, 510 EVs, something like 19 types, etc etc. there will inevitably be so much variation that sometimes you just have to lose something to find out a set. not to mention that i would say there are a lot of times when scouting for sets that i end up in a good position. let's say i switch in my abra on a weakened missy (i don't know why, let's say it set up a sub or 2) that's NP'd up and he will-o's predicting a pawniard to come in. now i have a good idea of his set and i have the momentum and advantage.
i don't know, maybe i'm wrong. i'd really like to know if i am and why, but i personally don't mind it. yes you sometimes lose momentum and pokemon when missy comes in, and it can be hard to decide what to do prior to knowing its set, but once you do it's not that difficult, and, like i said in an earlier post, i truly believe missy fills a very important role in this tier, which is the real reason it's climbed to the top. it's a great check to the things that run rampant in this tier. the things that would continue to do so with even less checks than they currently have if fletch and missy were to go.
I don't really play OU much so pardon me if I'm saying something silly.
The difference between Rotom-W's unpredictability and Misdreavus's unpredictability in this case is how if you mispredict and Azumarill takes a Volt Switch or Will-O-Wisp, there's still an opportunity for recovery through Chansey's support. If you mispredict and Chansey gets tricked a Choice Scarf, you can still pass Wishes and stuff; momentum just won't be in your favour. If you mispredict Misdreavus, something will die, so it won't be coming back for the remainder of the battle. Misdreavus's huge bulk and good match-up against nearly everything allows it to force this scenario over and over throughout the match.
Another thing is that Misdreavus has significantly more sweeping potential. If something goes wrong vs Rotom-W, you're up against a Pokemon with fairly average SpA for a special attacker, from what I understand. If something goes wrong vs Misdreavus, you're up against a juggernaut with an undoubtedly excellent Special Attack stat and possibly a Nasty Plot boost. If you're comparing to Mega Charizard X, it's important to note that Misdreavus packs one of the highest speed tiers, and bulk comparable to dedicated walls. Try giving Mega Charizard X base 120 speed (same as Alakazam) and give it Ferrothorn's base HP/Def/SpD and you're set. Obviously each have their respective advantages other than stats in their respective tiers, but you have to understand that on top of Misdreavus's excellent movepool, it has the highest base stat total in all of Little Cup, and by quite a margin at that. This means that scouting simply doesn't work because if something goes wrong, you're simply out of the match. There's something like two common choice scarf users that can OHKO Misdreavus from full health, and on top of that, it's incredibly difficult to prevent Misdreavus from setting up, unlike Charizard, who packs a double weakness to stealth rock the first time it switches in and has fairly average special bulk.
Of course there will always be variations in a game like Pokemon, but some variations will inherently be competitively superior to others; it's usually safe to assume Fletchling isn't packing Hidden Power Flying. The problem with Misdreavus is that it has numerous variations, every single one of them are absolutely viable, many of them do entirely different things, meaning more Pokemon are outclassed by it and rendering less variation in the metagame, and most importantly, they pack entirely different counters. If you have a Roserade or Amoonguss on your team, then you can just switch that into Rotom-W every time and be done with it. If you have a Porygon on your team, that's hardly going to be enough to stop several specific variants of Misdreavus.
As has been mentioned many, many times before, Misdreavus and Fletchling checking key threats is a blatant non-issue. If those pokes turn out to be broken after the bans, then we ban them too. Even outside of that, I don't see anything rising up to be unbelievably broken through either of them getting banned.
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Coporal Levi hit it on the head. A big movepool and a lot of options to use is not inherently broken at all. Take a look at Absol for an example of that. What is a problem is when you have a lot of viable choices, each of which allows you to defeat checks and counters to the other sets. Walls that can take Shadow Ball or a coverage move with no problem get messed up by TrickScarf or Toxic, Knock Off users don't like Will-o-Wisp, Scarfers that don't mind being tricked a Scarf are usually frail enough to be OHKOed on the switch and so on.
the only things i'd point out about that is that choice scarf chansey barely exists. it's useless essentially (it's useful in the sense that it's a pokemon that you can throw out to sac, to save others on your team, pretty much). eviolite is what gives it the bulk that makes it so real, and being locked is terrible for her. plus wish-passing almost never works. it implies your pokemon is weakened, if you're passing, meaning usually any solid hitting move will ohko before the wish gets passed. also megazard x actually has really good bulk with incredibly hard hitting attacks (with great coverage). if it gets a DD it outspeeds the majority of the tier and will generally ohko, plus it has reliable recovery in roost. post-mega it's only 2x weak to rocks. but enough of that, to me this sounds like a similar thing with aegislash in OU right now. aegislash has a pseudo BST that's just out of this world and can run such a diverse amount of sets that it essentially lacks true checks/counters because it depends on the set. it seems as though the majority of good OU players want him gone. i personally disagree. so while i recognize and understand the arguments, i personally would like to see missy stay, just as i want to see aegislash stay. it is a slightly different scenario, KS complicates things for example, but they're similar. so yeah, i see what you're saying, and i certainly agree to an extent (pretty much all the way up to "it should be banned"). but i just think in practice missy is not that complicated. in reality i would say that i see 2 primary missy sets. just like how with aegislash, yeah head smash aegi can ruin my mandibuzz's life, but 8 times out of 10, it just isn't head smash aegi. he has the potential to run so many sets, but generally speaking runs a few
We know Choice Scarf Chansey does not exist, the situation being described was a case where Chansey was tricked a Scarf. No one in their right mind would consider Scarf Wishpass Chansey.
by does not exist i meant once it is tricked a scarf it has lost its value as anything save a potential heal beller...that dies easily. i described this situation in the first place, i'm aware of what we're talking about.
LC suspect thread drinking game: every time someone makes an irrelevant comparison to OU, take a shot
anyway, am I really one of the few people who want neither banned?
Misdreavus is only OP in theory, at least in my opinion. Yes, you can post your beautiful calcs and walls of text that prove missy can beat porygon or whatever people use to "counter" it, but why are you assuming misdreavus is at full health?
I'd like some examples of pokémon misdreavus can setup on, because honestly, I'm lost when I see this thread. If a misdreavus comes in one of my pokémon, I won't just switch into porygon and let it beat me if it's subHP or something, I'd straight-up attack it and revenge it with porygon or something. Yes, I lost one pokémon, but who cares? Any other sweeper can do that.
To be honest, the thing people should focus on are more the support missy sets, since the NP sets don't seem to be broken at all for me. Misdreavus is a great supporter: access to will-o-wisp, thunder wave, taunt, heal bell, and a rapid spin immunity is great for a pokémon. Does that make it broken? No, at least not in my book.
I dunno if it's just because I usually run offense, but I never had any problems with misdreavus.
anyway, am I really one of the few people who want neither banned?
Misdreavus is only OP in theory, at least in my opinion. Yes, you can post your beautiful calcs and walls of text that prove missy can beat porygon or whatever people use to "counter" it, but why are you assuming misdreavus is at full health?
I'd like some examples of pokémon misdreavus can setup on, because honestly, I'm lost when I see this thread. If a misdreavus comes in one of my pokémon, I won't just switch into porygon and let it beat me if it's subHP or something, I'd straight-up attack it and revenge it with porygon or something. Yes, I lost one pokémon, but who cares? Any other sweeper can do that.
To be honest, the thing people should focus on are more the support missy sets, since the NP sets don't seem to be broken at all for me. Misdreavus is a great supporter: access to will-o-wisp, thunder wave, taunt, heal bell, and a rapid spin immunity is great for a pokémon. Does that make it broken? No, at least not in my book.
I dunno if it's just because I usually run offense, but I never had any problems with misdreavus.
I don't drink but I would probably drink just to do this. I'll just make sure I don't have to drive that night. :)
That aside...
For me, what breaks Missy is how it doesn't need to change too much to beat or make its checks uncomfortable. Taunt makes Porygon gets destroyed and I've seen Porygon lose to Taunt + Berry Juice + Nasty Plot Missy, which is an incredible set to use to beat some of its checks. Houndour can come in on Misdreavus with hopes to trap her but:
196 Atk Life Orb Houndour Pursuit vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Misdreavus: 18-23 (78.2 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
If houndour comes in on rocks, it will be finished by Hidden Power Fighting most of the time:
236 SpA Misdreavus Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndour: 14-18 (66.6 - 85.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
And if she boosts on the switch, it's the same story if she's carrying berry juice she's full health after you try to pursuit trap, so hound loses and you need bulky hound, which as we all know lacks real power to OHKO missy with the trapping unless she's Berry Juice, which makes Houndour a shaky answer since a simple item change can spell death. Sucker Punch from Hound loses to Substitute or you could end up giving Missy the switch she needed or she can even set up in your face, making her even deadlier for you.
Max Carvalho
Que os jogos comecem
Here is a list on Pokemon Missy can set up on at full health (all A rank):
- Mienfoo (lol I said A-rank.).
- Archen Missy dgaf.
- Chinchou is same as Archen tho there is Twave; tho Chou user fears Substitute.
- Tirtouga.
- Drilbur.
- Foongus, with Sleep Clause it is better but there is Sub yet.
- Diglett that thing is so weak.
- Croagunk.
- Ferroseed.
- Dweeble.
- Spritzee.
- Soft Counters.
- Free kill button.
- Makes teambuilding much easier demanding few skill in the tier (you can use the same copy paste teams and win.).
- Heavy centralization, with things such as ScarfPawn, Bulky Houndour and even Porygon only being that used because of Missy.
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Misdreavus cannot setup on any of these pokémon. All of these pokémon deal enough damage for misdreavus to be revenged next turn. Like I said, Misdreavus will never be at 100% health during the setup part.
That set is even more weak to Knock Off than the eviolite variant. Yes, it can beat porygon, but it loses on a lot of setup opportunities.
I still don't see how Misdreavus can setup on any of these pokémon...
Aaron's Aron
A concussion update in my info tab
Well again, and I don't mean to be repeating myself, if it gets revenged it probably already did its job. If it spreads a burn or two with Will-O-Wisp, KOs a Pokemon or two, and gets revenged, then great I say! Missy preformed well! It is able to consistently do this every match, and this is what makes it so good.
How is it going to "spread burns"? At best, it burned Mienfoo, and got heavily damaged in the process: it'll just be revenged some time later when it switches in. It won't KO a "pokémon or two" either, since it won't be alive by then. It seems like you're greatly overrating Misdreavus' performance, since you're already implying Misdreavus can survive more than five turns while taking damage. Misdreavus' greatest flaw is its lack of reliable recovery. It won't do everything that you say. Its diversity comes with some flaws, too. Eviolite set? Beaten by conventional checks. Berry Juice NEW META set? destroyed by knock off users after SR (defensive foo KOes). It can't do everything at once. Can we stop assuming that?
NP Missy is underwhelming IMO, for a couple of reasons. Even if you come in for free against a Fighting move, literally all Fighting types have Knock Off. You can't OHKO with Dazzling Gleam at +0 (besides Scraggy), and pretty much the only way to survive Knock Off is with Eviolite (which is at 80% usage, so there's that at least). At that point, Missy is an easy kill for any revenge killer / priority. Maybe you fodder your Fighting type, but Missy pretty much loses the ability to NP because it can't stay in on anything anymore, and no one is going to throw Choiced Fighting moves with Missy still around.
If Missy comes in against something without Knock Off, it still has to worry about status, or neutral hits dropping it to revenge kill range. Yeah there are a lot of scenarios for this, but I've run the ladder with a few teams (not teambuilding restrictive) and the fact is I've lost to maybe 10% of the NP Missy I've faced. I'm OK with that because I can't possible hope to win every match. It feel like a lot of sweepers: if you carry moves to deal with checks (Sub, Taunt, etc), you can only sweep lategame when you've played well earlier.
About utility Missy, I still think it's fine. It's all about Knock Off again. IMO it's worth risking a burn to remove Eviolite because now Missy is just squishy. She's still fast, but her neutral hits are not strong. It becomes easy to trade with her neutrally, which a lot of Pokemon can do.
Again, if you don't have Knock Off, what's wrong with trading hits? You are only forced to use something like ScarfPawn to revenge kill if Missy is at 100%, but if you actually trade with for example Chinchou, Magnemite, Ponyta, to name a few, you do perfectly fine with the revenge killer of your choice.
If Missy comes in against something without Knock Off, it still has to worry about status, or neutral hits dropping it to revenge kill range. Yeah there are a lot of scenarios for this, but I've run the ladder with a few teams (not teambuilding restrictive) and the fact is I've lost to maybe 10% of the NP Missy I've faced. I'm OK with that because I can't possible hope to win every match. It feel like a lot of sweepers: if you carry moves to deal with checks (Sub, Taunt, etc), you can only sweep lategame when you've played well earlier.
About utility Missy, I still think it's fine. It's all about Knock Off again. IMO it's worth risking a burn to remove Eviolite because now Missy is just squishy. She's still fast, but her neutral hits are not strong. It becomes easy to trade with her neutrally, which a lot of Pokemon can do.
Again, if you don't have Knock Off, what's wrong with trading hits? You are only forced to use something like ScarfPawn to revenge kill if Missy is at 100%, but if you actually trade with for example Chinchou, Magnemite, Ponyta, to name a few, you do perfectly fine with the revenge killer of your choice.
The Berry Juice setup set is weak to Knock Off but that doesn't mean when Misdreavus will come out on something that will use Knock Off on her, seems like common sense you don't send her out on something that will OHKO with Knock Off.
The point I was trying to make, is that if it comes in on something that can't use Knock Off, not OHKO right off the bat, it will be able to beat its checks through the use of Taunt, Hidden Power Fighting or Will-O-Wisp to cripple them and instantly become a threat through 1 switch-in that it can get multiple times during a battle.
The point I was trying to make, is that if it comes in on something that can't use Knock Off, not OHKO right off the bat, it will be able to beat its checks through the use of Taunt, Hidden Power Fighting or Will-O-Wisp to cripple them and instantly become a threat through 1 switch-in that it can get multiple times during a battle.
Max Carvalho
Que os jogos comecem
Alright Misdreavus user should never set up if it is sure it can't sweep or even if Missy is going to be rk soon. Missy shouldn't set up if Pawniard is alive. With this knowledge, Missy can set up in more than half of the mons I listed because they are physical attackers; as such Will-O-Wisp is going to cripple them. The others are mons much weak to do any relevant damage (how can you possibly say that Missy can't set up on Ferro or Spritzee.). You still demand explanations on wether Missy presence in the tier is healthy and Missy having only soft counters makes it broken because this points are yet clearly seen to me.
Max Carvalho
Que os jogos comecem
Sorry for double posting but defensive burned Mienfoo's Knock Off is a 4HKO. If it is offensive, it should be easily seen due to Mienfoo being usually present at early-game, when Missy shouldn't attempt for a sweep. If the Sub+Bj set wants to weaken Knock Off it can do that by keep Substituting untill BJ activates; not the best strategie and yes, the Evio set is better against Knock Off, but in some cases it can proof to be very useful.
92 Atk Ferroseed Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 9-12 (39.1 - 52.1%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO
Yeah, sorry, but missy doesn't set up on ferro. Shadow ball does around 55%, so it'll get 80% damage, which makes it incredibly easy to revenge. Sub shenanigans will only make it lose more health: if it subs even once, it's dead before being able to KO ferro.
12 SpA Spritzee Moonblast vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Misdreavus: 7-9 (30.4 - 39.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO
Misdreavus can't sub on Spritzee. At worst, Spritzee will deal 60% damage, which means missy will still be easy to revenge kill, as most attackeres can inflict 40% to missy. You also have to account the SpA drop: if Misdreavus' SpA is dropped, it won't be able to 2HKO Spritzee.
Nearly none of the physical attackers you mentioned mind the burn: Mienfoo can still do its job fine even when burned, Archen can still defog effectively and deals enough damage to fletchling with rock slide to be able to check it, Chinchou doesn't give a fuck, Tirtouga has shell smash and possibly scald/hydro pump if it's defensive/mixed, drilbur doesn't mind since it can still SR/rapid spin and doesn't need to check much anyway (Mag is still KOed even after burn), Foongus doesn't give a fuck, diglett can still sr/memento fine, croagunk has sludge bomb / vacuum wave so it doesn't give a fuck, ferroseed can leech seed and hazards just fine while being annoying, dwebble can still hazards just fine (knock off beats missy too), and spritzee doesn't give a fuck too
EDIT
236 Atk burned Mienfoo Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 7-9 (30.4 - 39.1%) -- 85.5% chance to 3HKO
(7, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9)
nah lol, mienfoo still beats missy even when burned, 70% damage dealt to missy and mienfoo can still be alive if you switch it out after the second knock off if you need to cripple a foongus or w/e
Sub+BJ literally does nothing that helps vs mienfoo, at best it'll just waste its berry juice and lose 60% health against the knock off when its BJ has been used
Missy has literally no advantage in setting up vs foo
Max Carvalho
Que os jogos comecem
We have a burned Ferroseed calc again :] Ferro is much likely T Waving (or Leech Seeding lololol) then attacking especially if it is the first answer to Missy. After the NP boost Spritzee is going for the Wish then the obvious Protect, so Missy has the upper hand to set up at least one more time. You are giving situations where defensive mons are going to be attacking like mad mans, be realistic. Tell me because I am eager to know what the hell will revenge kill Misdreavus after the pitful damage these guys made and knowing that Misdreavus has the given situations that allows it to sweep? By the way Misdreavus doesn't need to sweep the opposing team all alone so it can give Misdreavus's user the victory. It can cripple a lot of mon, weaken a bit more and even KO some and its job is done another sweeper will do the remaining job. And how Misdreavus can be stoppable if she is played correctly? EDIT: In your last paragraph on your post you said the physical attackers could still do their jobs if burned but I am talking about they vs Misdreavus not their overall perfomance.
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