Mismagius [4N] - Nasty Sub*

[Xia]

Status: Complete

After talking with twashley, I decided to go ahead and write the analysis for this set. I've written it as though it would replace the current Calm Mind + Substitute set, though I can rework the identical paragraphs so they can both be in the full analysis.

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/mismagius

[SET]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Substitute / Taunt
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Fighting
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Nasty Plot boosts Mismagius's Special Attack by 2 stages, making it even easier for it to sweep. To use this set effectively, switch Mismagius in on any Normal-, Fighting-, or Ground-type attack or any Pokemon Mismagius threatens directly and incapacitate them (via Substitute or Taunt) as quickly as possible. From there, use Nasty Plot to boost Mismagius's Special Attack to an appropriate level and get to sweeping.</p>

<p>Shadow Ball is Mismagius's answer to many premier walls in UU, especially Slowbro and Uxie. Making the choice for the fourth moveslot comes down to how you intend to play Mismagius. Hidden Power Fighting provides Mismagius with perfect type coverage and is especially useful when sweeping late-game. Thunderbolt is also viable and provides a perfect Speed IV and counter insurance. Thunderbolt takes care of common switch-ins Honchkrow and Milotic; it's super effective and OHKOes both after Stealth Rock damage. These two KOs are very important to Mismagius, since Honchkrow can OHKO Mismagius with Sucker Punch and Milotic can erase any stat boosts Mismagius has already acquired with Haze. The drawback, though, is Mismagius will struggle KOing the likes of Clefable, Steelix, Chansey, and Registeel; all of whom are deftly handled by Hidden Power Fighting.</p>

<p>Taunt is a viable option over Substitute, in order to prevent status and to keeps foes from boosting their stats while Mismagius does. However, Taunt does not block attacks, limiting the amount of time Mismagius can spend setting up and leaving Mismagius open to attacks, especially priority.</p>

<p>Leftovers is the greater option in most cases, since recovering HP lost to Substitute is very advantageous. Life Orb provides more power and 2HKOes on Registeel and Milotic with Hidden Power Fighting and Shadow Ball, respectively, factoring in Stealth Rock damage and at least one Nasty Plot boost.</p>

<p>Max Speed allows Mismagius to at least tie with opposing Mismagius running Hidden Power Fighting. Since the chance of Mismagius running Hidden Power Fighting or Thunderbolt is nearly 50-50, the imperfect IV shouldn't be too much of a bother.</p>

<p>Because of its niche role of "fast offensive Ghost with a stat boosting move", Mismagius works quite effectively in OU as well. While it may not be sweeping teams by its lonesome, it can be very helpful in weakening teams in general and has the potential to do a lot of damage. Just like in UU, its utility comes from the fact that it can set up on and beat common special walls, such as Blissey and Cresselia. In OU, an EV spread of 108 HP / 148 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature is recommended; the extra HP EVs ensure that neither Blissey's elemental attacks, nor Cresselia's +1 Psychic will not break the Substitute. Both of these Pokemon become set up fodder for Mismagius, allowing her to 2HKO Blissey with Hidden Power Fighting and OHKO Cresselia with a +4 STAB Shadow Ball. OU Mismagius may find that holding a Salac Berry is beneficial, as the +1 Speed boost helps Mismagius defeat the likes of non-Scarfed Gengar, Latias, Azelf, and other revenge killers who would otherwise pose a threat to Mismagius.</p>

<p>To help take down the walls Nasty Plot Mismagius may face, try adding Rhyperior to your team; it can easily switch in on Chansey or Registeel and set up in their faces. Honchkrow, too, is a great wallbreaker to pair with Mismagius, putting gashes in Registeel and Steelix big enough to put them within KO range for Mismagius's Hidden Power Fighting. Hitmontop's STAB Close Combat seals the deal against Registeel, Regirock, Clefable, and Chansey, while Rapid Spin keeps Mismagius from taking unneccessary damage that would screw up the number of times it can Substitute. Blaziken, too, does a great job complimenting Mismagius and fares better against Registeel than Hitmontop, thanks to a Steel resistance. Like Mismagius, however, it would like to avoid crippling Thunder Waves as often as possible. Hariyama, on the other hand, loses very little when paralyzed and can perform many of the same jobs as its Fighting-type brethren.</p>

<p>Since Mismagius lacks a decent Defense stat, a lot of its defensive partners are more physically-dedicated. Donphan is a great partner, thanks to an immunity to Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock, and Rapid Spin. Though it lacks Rapid Spin, Steelix is also a great partner to set up Stealth Rock and absorb Thunder Wave and Toxic statuses. Steelix also draws Fighting-type attacks that Mismagius can freely switch in upon.</p>

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

<p>Mismagius's Substitute and stat boost strategy has been given new wings, thanks to new tutor moves in HGSS. Nasty Plot makes sweeping with Mismagius even easier than before, thanks to the fact that it boosts Special Attack by two stages rather than one. To use this set effectively, switch Mismagius in on any Normal-, Fighting-, or Ground-type attack or any Pokemon Mismagius threatens directly and set up a Substitute as quickly as possible. From there, use Nasty Plot to boost Mismagius's Special Attack to an appropriate level and get to sweeping.</p>

For practical purposes, you're not aiming to amass +6 Special Attack - a feat that would be much easier accomplished with Calm Mind - so I edited out those mentions.

<p>Shadow Ball is Mismagius's answer to many premier walls in UU, especially Slowbro and Uxie. Making the choice for the fourth moveslot comes down to how you intend to play Mismagius. Hidden Power Fighting provides Mismagius with perfect type coverage and is especially useful when sweeping late-game. For those players who would rather prolong Mismagius's sweep, it may be more practical to run Thunderbolt; the perfect Speed IV and counter insurance are very appealing. Thunderbolt takes care of common switch-ins Honchkrow and Milotic, hitting with super effective force and OHKOing both after Stealth Rock damage. These two KOs are very important to Mismagius, since Honchkrow can OHKO Mismagius with Sucker Punch and Milotic can erase any stat boosts Mismagius has already acquired with Haze. The drawback, though, is Mismagius will struggle KOing the likes of Clefable, Steelix, and Registeel, all of whom are deftly handled by Hidden Power Fighting.</p>

Chansey is beaten anyway since it cannot touch Substitute Mismagius.

<p>While Hidden Power Fighting does necessitate the use of an imperfect Speed IV, max Speed is still helpful in tying at worst with opposing Mismagius. Since the chance of Mismagius running Hidden Power Fighting or Thunderbolt is nearly 50-50, the imperfect IV shouldn't be too much of a bother. 48 HP EVs gives Mismagius an HP stat one more than a Leftovers number, allowing it to Substitute five times consecutively from full health if need be. The remaining EVs are dumped into Special Attack to power up Mismagius's attacks, helping it to serve as a revenge killer without a Nasty Plot if need be.</p>

<p>Because of its niche role of "fast offensive Ghost with a stat boosting move", Mismagius works quite effectively in OU as well. While it may not be sweeping teams by its lonesome, it can be very helpful in weakening teams in general and has the potential to do a lot of damage. Just like in UU, its utility comes from the fact that it can set up on and beat common special walls such as Blissey and Cresselia. In OU, an EV spread of 108 HP / 180 SpA / 220 Spe with a Timid nature is recommended. Since base 105s are so uncommon in OU, it is not necessary to run max Speed, and the additional HP allow Mismagius's Substitutes to never be broken by a 108 SpA Blissey's Flamethrower or Ice Beam.</p>

<p>Having an answer to Mismagius's most common counters is very much recommended. Hitmontop is an ideal candidate, due in part to its ability to check many of Mismagius's counters. Intimidate and Stone Edge combine to demolish Honchkrow, though taking a STAB Brave Bird is not something Hitmontop will enjoy. Thankfully, many Honchkrow will be trying to take down Mismagius with super effective Dark-type attacks, allowing Hitmontop to switch in with impunity on the resisted attacks. STAB Close Combat seals the deal against Registeel, Regirock, Clefable, and Chansey, while Rapid Spin keeps Mismagius from taking unneccessary damage that would screw up the number of times it can Substitute. Blaziken, too, does a great job complementing Mismagius and fares better against Registeel than Hitmontop, thanks to a Steel resistance. Like Mismagius, however, it would like to avoid crippling Thunder Waves as often as possible. Hariyama, on the other hand, loses very little when paralyzed and can perform many of the same jobs as its Fighting-type brethren.</p>

Again, in most cases, you're not going to be aiming to consistently get +6 SpA.

Another thing I would like to note is that Life Orb might be worth considering as an alternate item choice. Life Orb turns a shaky 2HKO (with +2 Shadow Ball / SR up) on standard Milotic into a guaranteed 2HKO. Same with Registeel (+2 HP Fighting).

Not much else to say; nice work.

 

[Xia]

Thank Eo Ut Mortus; your edits will be added.

I'll add in a mention of Life Orb as well. Thank you for bringing that to light.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

1192 Atk vs 339 Def & 641 HP (95 Base Power): 239 - 282 (37.29% - 43.99%)

+6 Thunderbolt versus Chansey. Chansey may not be able to "touch" Mismagius, but Mismagius needs a crit to beat Chansey with Thunderbolt, so it's possible for Chansey to just stall Mismagius out.

1192 Atk vs 339 Def & 641 HP (95 Base Power): 311 - 366 (48.52% - 57.10%)

LO variants also cannot 2KO WishProtect Chansey, but they auto-lose after 9-10 turns, 6-7 if it subs first. So yeah, without HP Fighting, Mismagius has big problems with Chansey.

 

[franky]

I would rename the set Nasty Plot and add slash Taunt over Substitute. Taunt is perfectly available over Substitute for shutting down Stall, and prevent Wish passing from Chansey. I think you can merge it instead of making 2 seperate sets.

 

[Erazor]

SDS, I'm sure that Mismagius can just PP stall Chansey.

 

[Xia]

1192 Atk vs 339 Def & 641 HP (95 Base Power): 239 - 282 (37.29% - 43.99%)

+6 Thunderbolt versus Chansey. Chansey may not be able to "touch" Mismagius, but Mismagius needs a crit to beat Chansey with Thunderbolt, so it's possible for Chansey to just stall Mismagius out.

1192 Atk vs 339 Def & 641 HP (95 Base Power): 311 - 366 (48.52% - 57.10%)

LO variants also cannot 2KO WishProtect Chansey, but they auto-lose after 9-10 turns, 6-7 if it subs first. So yeah, without HP Fighting, Mismagius has big problems with Chansey.

I've added in a mention of this. Thanks SDS.

I would rename the set Nasty Plot and add slash Taunt over Substitute. Taunt is perfectly available over Substitute for shutting down Stall, and prevent Wish passing from Chansey. I think you can merge it instead of making 2 seperate sets.

Also added. I decided to keep Substitute as the main option, however, because it's the more common choice.

Since the name's changed, a mod can feel free to alter the thread title so it reads "Mismagius [4N] - Nasty Plot".

 

[Stagnant]

Destiny Bond should be slashed with Sub and Taunt as well. It helps to pick up last ditch KO's.

 

[Xia]

All suggestions have been added. I believe this is as complete as it can be.

 

[Heysup]

Is there a reason that the HP EVs should be run with Life Orb being held? I think it would be more beneficial to put those EVs in SpA if they don't do anything in particular.

What I mean is, you should mention that in the paragraph talking about Life Orb.

 

[VKCA]

<p>Shadow Ball is Mismagius's answer to many premier walls in UU, especially Slowbro and Uxie. Making the choice for the fourth moveslot comes down to how you intend to play Mismagius. Hidden Power Fighting provides Mismagius with perfect type coverage and is especially useful when sweeping late-game. For those players who would rather prolong Mismagius's sweep, it may be more practical to run Thunderbolt; the perfect Speed IV and counter insurance are very appealing. Thunderbolt takes care of common switch-ins Honchkrow and Milotic, hitting with super effective force and OHKOing both after Stealth Rock damage. These two KOs are very important to Mismagius, since Honchkrow can OHKO Mismagius with Sucker Punch and Milotic can erase any stat boosts Mismagius has already acquired with Haze. The drawback, though, is Mismagius will struggle KOing the likes of Clefable, Steelix, and Registeel, all of whom are deftly handled by Hidden Power Fighting. The biggest problem with not running Hidden Power Fighting is the fact that there is no way to beat Chansey without relying on critical hits (this applies even if Mismagius is holding a Life Orb).</p>

A +6 thunderbolt from mismagius(LO) vs a standard chansey:
1192 Atk vs 339 Def & 641 HP (95 Base Power): 311 - 366 (48.52% - 57.10%)
So you could defeat standard chansey without crits couldn't you?

edit: Just saw sds's post, probably should have read that first.

 

[Xia]

A +6 thunderbolt from mismagius(LO) vs a standard chansey:
1192 Atk vs 339 Def & 641 HP (95 Base Power): 311 - 366 (48.52% - 57.10%)
So you could defeat standard chansey without crits couldn't you?

Ah, I wasn't specific enough with which Chansey I was talking about. Thank you for bringing this to light, Eye.

And thank you for mentioning that Heysup (that fact had eluded me).

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

The biggest problem with not running Hidden Power Fighting is the fact that there is no way to beat Wish + Protect Chansey without relying on critical hits

This part is really daft IMO. Even ignoring the vast improbability of both crit / para-hax not intervening at some point over 20-odd Thunderbolt uses and a situation in which the opponent is relying on PP stalling with Chansey to beat Mismagius, both of Chansey's recovery options have less PP than Thunderbolt. I find it quite ridiculous that you would bring up such an implausible and improbable scenario as the biggest problem with not running HP Fighting.

Also, can anyone explain to me the exact reason for those HP EVs? It isn't to make five Subs in a row, as Missy can do that with just 4 EVs. If it isn't for a very particular and common scenario that grants Missy survival, I see no reason to drop 4% of your attacking power on what is primarily an offensive set.

 

[lati0s]

I think its worth noting that if you run taunt it doesn't matter if you don't 2ko chansey you win anyways

 

[Heysup]

This part is really daft IMO. Even ignoring the vast improbability of both crit / para-hax not intervening at some point over 20-odd Thunderbolt uses and a situation in which the opponent is relying on PP stalling with Chansey to beat Mismagius, both of Chansey's recovery options have less PP than Thunderbolt. I find it quite ridiculous that you would bring up such an implausible and improbable scenario as the biggest problem with not running HP Fighting.

Also, can anyone explain to me the exact reason for those HP EVs? It isn't to make five Subs in a row, as Missy can do that with just 4 EVs. If it isn't for a very particular and common scenario that grants Missy survival, I see no reason to drop 4% of your attacking power on what is primarily an offensive set.

It used to avoid 2HKOes from Yanmega and a OHKO from Crobat iirc, but it also gets a Leftovers number + 1, which it can't do with 4 EVs. Unless I'm missing something....

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

It used to avoid 2HKOes from Yanmega and a OHKO from Crobat iirc, but it also gets a Leftovers number + 1, which it can't do with 4 EVs. Unless I'm missing something....

How are Yanmega and Crobat important for Mismagius in the current metagame? And Leftovers + 1 numbers are next to pointless on offensive Pokemon except for the ability to make 5 Subs in a row. But Mismagius can do that with 4 EVs anyway, so why skimp on the special attack investment for something so insignificant?

 

[Xia]

This part is really daft IMO. Even ignoring the vast improbability of both crit / para-hax not intervening at some point over 20-odd Thunderbolt uses and a situation in which the opponent is relying on PP stalling with Chansey to beat Mismagius, both of Chansey's recovery options have less PP than Thunderbolt. I find it quite ridiculous that you would bring up such an implausible and improbable scenario as the biggest problem with not running HP Fighting.

Also, can anyone explain to me the exact reason for those HP EVs? It isn't to make five Subs in a row, as Missy can do that with just 4 EVs. If it isn't for a very particular and common scenario that grants Missy survival, I see no reason to drop 4% of your attacking power on what is primarily an offensive set.

Then I'll cut that part out of the analysis.

The EVs I listed were the ones from the old Calm Mind Missmagius analysis, though I agree with you that the EVs should be changed since their importance is diminished.

 

[Heysup]

How are Yanmega and Crobat important for Mismagius in the current metagame? And Leftovers + 1 numbers are next to pointless on offensive Pokemon except for the ability to make 5 Subs in a row. But Mismagius can do that with 4 EVs anyway, so why skimp on the special attack investment for something so insignificant?

I was just saying that's why the EV spread is there, not that it should be there. I agree that we should probably just ditch the HP EVs on NP Missy and keep them on CM Missy.

 

[Colonel M]

I'm questioning Destiny Bond's viability on this set. Since the main objective is beating Chansey as well as other walls, Substitute and Taunt are the main cruxes to help it set up Nasty Plot and keeping the set going. It could be just me though, but I'd rather guarantee the 2HKO on Chansey or having a chance to escape freely w/Substitute in comparison to just KOing a random Pokemon w/Destiny Bond.

 

[Heysup]

I agree with Colonel Marcus, Destiny Bond is really a poor option on this set since Substitute and Taunt actually help it beat Chansey. What's the point of using NP Missy over something else if it can't beat Chansey? That's one of the main reasons to use Missy in the first place.

 

[Stagnant]

the main objective is beating Chansey as well as other walls

I thought the main objective was to sweep... since this is a Nasty Plot set with the option of Life Orb.

I generally use Destiny Bond as a "tech" move. Use the other 3 moves to sweep as best as possible and use D-Bond to hit surprise KO's. Try it out I suppose... its hard to explain but it is effective.

 

[Heysup]

I thought the main objective was to sweep... since this is a Nasty Plot set with the option of Life Orb.

I generally use Destiny Bond as a "tech" move. Use the other 3 moves to sweep as best as possible and use D-Bond to hit surprise KO's. Try it out I suppose... its hard to explain but it is effective.

I've used it and honestly every time I'm against something like Chansey or a burned Registeel I just think to myself "shit now I can't sweep because I'm going to get statused".

How do you plan on sweeping when you can't deal with any sort of Pokemon with status? You really can't, not with an 80 BP Stab move off of an average-above average SpA stat. You would always be better off using something like Alakazam, Raikou, etc, if you aren't beating Chansey.

 

[Stagnant]

Well, I found most of it's use against Honchkrow as it grants you a prediction-less kill against him as well as other Sucker Punchers. I understand that Substitute helps kill them as well as Honch but I prefer the straight forward kill and press on.

Anyways, 2 vs 1. Heysup tested and disliked it. Feel free to remove D-Bond.

 

[Xia]

I removed Destiny Bond, due to not onyl Colonel Marcus and Heysup, but because my own tests proved it a lesser option.

 

[Colonel M]

EDIT: Two things. First, treat HG | SS as if it already existed. Remove the statements that included Missy got new moves because of HG | SS. Similair to what we did with Platinum. Second, I'd like one last grammar swipe before I put this up. If no one can find anything bad with it and Xia fixes that stuff with HG | SS, I don't have much of an objection to putting this up.