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Mismagius (update) [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Banedon, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

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    Ok, you really need to read this over after you implamented my check because getting thrugh this was just a slog.
  2. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Thanks for the check. I'm hesitant to implement much of your check though (no offense meant), because of some apparent flaws (to my eye anyway) as well as the number of changes you made to the Stallbreaker and Lead sets, most of whose writeups have already gone through GP checking.

    Some problems:

    Repeating the same, rather uncommon word twice in a short sentence doesn't feel like good style.

    If it's excellent why aren't we recommending it as the primary option? That's the main reason why my original writeup used "important".

    I don't know if you just missed it, but should NP Mismagius here also be changed to "Nasty Plot Mismagius"? As for "breaking Mismagius's Substitute", it's less the point of breaking the Sub than it is to make sure Mismagius does not have a Sub up when it finally kills off Uxie. I think "keeping Mismagius's Substitute down" is the better phrase.

    Again, thanks for your check. I fixed quite a lot of style problems that simply slipped through me last time (like capitalizing all the Speed and Special Attack). Still, I'd like some confirmation before proceeding with your fix.
  3. Berserker Lord

    Berserker Lord unreliable analysis writer.

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    While, I did do the GP check when I had no sleep, so I expected to mess up a bit. Actually, change the sentence about Hidden Power Fighting to this:

    The Taunt bit works because the previous sentence was talking about why Substitute + Life Orb is not good, and what other option is there besides Taunt and Substitute. You can change "option" to "alternative".

    I did miss that Nasty Plot change. The reason I put it as "breaking Mismagius Substitute" simply flows much better then "keeping Mismagius Substitute down", and the point is that your breaking Mismagius Substitute so something faster can revenge it, so what I proposed gets that across better I think.

    Also, some other things you didn't implament that I really think you should. (and with all new extra changes :D)

    "Strong bite" just sounds terrible when said outloud. "Some bite" sounds much better. You really don't need to mention a specific example because I would assume people are smart enough to know why they would want Mismagius to live longer. You also missed the capatilization on Special Attack.

    I'm honestly confused as to whats happning with the second sentence here. I think you should just use what is on site because this error isn't present there (of course, changing the gender crap.)

    I also don't get why you wrote a different Overview when the one on site is perfect for Mismagius as far as I see. I also see that you failed to add many of the punctuation changes I proposed.

    I would continue on what is wrong, but thast really just the main porblems I found.
  4. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Agree with first two changes.

    I think "keeping Mismagius's Substitute down" actually flows better than "breaking Mismagius's Subsitute". After all, the key thing about that paragraph is to ensure Mismagius faces the next threat with no Substitute. Whether or not it breaks the Sub is less important than making sure Mismagius has no Sub; if Mismagius can somehow be persuaded to attack instead of Sub for example then that's good enough.

    As for the remaining changes you mentioned, I didn't make them because most of those paragraphs have already been GP checked. You changed a lot of things that the previous GP checkers did not change. Since you (if I'm not mistaken) are not a member of the GP team, I'm hesitant to use your check.

    Oglemi please tell me if I should make the changes @_@

    EDIT: Oh yeah about the overview, I think this one does Mismagius more justice. It is after all one of the movers and shakers of the tier. Its movepool may not be fantastic, but it has enough of a movepool to be dangerous - that's why almost all the counters and checks fear specific moves. Its most significant drawback I would say is that its list of counters is so huge. But then again, that's in part because of how dangerous Mismagius is, isn't it? There is a reason, after all, for the writeup of SpD Torterra to dedicate almost one paragraph to how it matches up vs. Mismagius, and the same applies to SpD Venusaur and SpD Arcanine.
  5. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    The policy is make all of the changes except for those you really really really have a problem with (especially if the sentence wasn't grammatically incorrect). So, if you don't want to change that sentence and it isn't grammatically incorrect, then don't change it.

    Otherwise, BL's check is good

    [​IMG]

    [GP 1/2]
  6. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Ok.

    1. Keeping the overview, which I think does more justice to Mismagius than the current one. At the very least I would remove mention of Blissey and OU in the overview.

    2. Keeping the semicolon in this line: "Life Orb can be used over Leftovers for more bite; with Stealth Rock support, a +2 LO HP Fighting can potentially 2HKO Registeel". With a full stop there the two consecutive short sentences feel awkward.

    3. I find Bad Ass's writing to be good, so I'm leaving most of the Lead writeup as it originally was, but with a few changes here and there. The same goes for FlareBlitz's writing in the support set.

    4. Keeping mention of Destiny Bond in OO. Don't see why it should be removed.

    5. Also keeping mention of Substitute dodging Sucker Punch in Checks and Counters. MixDoom with Pursuit and Sucker Punch after all is a big threat to Mismagius, although Substitute can help against Sucker Punch.
  7. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    This thing needs to get on site, so here's a proofread to help get that done.

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    Blue is for additions.
    Red is for deletions.
    Green is for comments.

    [Overview]

    <p>With excellent Speed and Special Attack, decent special bulk, a fine movepool, (Add Comma) and three immunities, Mismagius is one of the top-tier threats in UU. Both its offensive and defensive sets are some of the defining forces in the tier, and the metagame has been forced to adapt in order to deal with them (eh, I don't really like "metagamed" honestly) as well as some of the most metagamed-against. It is a tribute to Mismagius's influence that a benchmark for all special walls is how well they take Mismagius's Shadow Ball, and some innovations like specially defensive Arcanine rose to prominence in part because they can take on Mismagius and live to tell the tale.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Nasty Plot
    move 1: Substitute / Taunt
    move 2: Nasty Plot
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Ground
    item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    ability: Levitate
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This straightforward sweeping set is Mismagius's most common, and one of its most effective. High Speed and multiple immunities lets Mismagius switch in on numerous common Pokemon in UU relatively simply and put up a Substitute as the opponent switches out. From there, Mismagius can either Nasty Plot and go for a sweep, or attack and switch out.</p>

    <p>Despite being a set that relies on pure brute force, Mismagius has a fair number of options. Nasty Plot is obvious for boosting while Shadow Ball is for equally obvious STAB, but the third move takes some consideration. Thunderbolt hits Milotic hard, but is relatively ineffective on Registeel, Clefable, (Add Comma) and Steelix, three of Mismagius's biggest counters. Hidden Power Fighting hits the aforementioned Pokemon super effectively, and it also gives Mismagius unresisted coverage. However, all three still survive the hit, and since Hidden Power HP Fighting Mismagius is forced to have 30 Speed speed IVs, it risks losing speed ties to Scyther and other Mismagius. Finally, Hidden Power Ground leaves a perfect Speed speed IV and retains coverage on Steel- steel types and Drapion, but leaves Mismagius completely walled by Swellow. It's also worth noting that Mismagius needs Hidden Power HP Fighting to 2HKO Chansey at +6 SpA. Where Thunderbolt Mismagius can rely on the paralysis chance to break through Chansey, Hidden Power HP Ground Mismagius is forced to rely on critical hits.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb can be used over Leftovers for more bite; with Stealth Rock support a +2 Life Orb Hidden Power LO HP Fighting can potentially 2HKO Registeel. However, the Life Orb recoil it will quickly wear Mismagius down, especially if Mismagius it has Substitute. Taunt is an excellent alternative over Substitute, stopping status and recovery moves. Nonetheless, it does leave Mismagius highly vulnerable to Pursuit and priority. Finally, a Nasty Plot + 3 attacks set with a Life Orb set offers the best coverage and considerable power, but with neither Substitute nor Taunt, it can't afford mispredictions, cannot defend itself against status, and is highly vulnerable to revenge kills. The only thing not negotiable on all variants of this set is maximum Speed speed: there are many nasty Pokemon in the base 95 speed tier that Mismagius simply cannot afford to lose to.</p>

    <p>Mismagius's worst foes include Spiritomb, Clefable, Registeel, (Add Comma) and Steelix. As long as they avoid Spiritomb's Will-O-Wisp, Rhyperior, Donphan, and a Steelix of your own make fine switch- (Add Hyphen; used as a noun)ins to all these Pokemon. All three of them can set up Stealth Rock to aid Mismagius's sweep, and they complement Mismagius's low Defense defense stat with their mammoth physical bulk. As a bonus, Rhyperior and Steelix tend to lure in Ground and Fighting attacks that Mismagius can switch into.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Lead
    move 1: Taunt
    move 2: Will-O-Wisp / Destiny Bond
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Thunderbolt
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    ability: Levitate
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This Mismagius set aims to defeat many common leads in UU: Uxie, Mesprit, Omastar, and Cloyster. Taunt and Will-O-Wisp allow Mismagius to function as a stallbreaker later in the match as well. Will-O-Wisp is also a valuable asset against offensive teams; you can often cripple their physical sweeper or defensive pivot, thus opening them up for a sweep. Taunt, combined with Mismagius's base 105 Speed, will often prevent the opposing lead from setting up Stealth Rock. This means that Pokémon who have a weakness to Stealth Rock can often rely on Mismagius to get them in safely. Choice Band Scyther in particular is a great partner because Mismagius not only prevents Stealth Rock, but can also cripple Pokemon that Scyther cannot beat, such as Registeel.</p>

    <p>Shadow Ball is a solid STAB move, and its power can allow Mismagius to run through many offensive teams. Thunderbolt does the most possible damage to bulky Water- and Flying-types like Milotic and Moltres. The EVs are simple; (Semi colon, dash, or colon over the hyphen)- anything less than max Speed and you lose to a multitude of threats, such as Scyther, Manectric, and opposing Mismagius. Maximum Special Attack gives Mismagius strong bite, but if you need Mismagius to stay alive into midgame you can shift the Special Attack special attack EVs to HP with Leftovers.</p>

    (I strongly suggest implementing the rest of Berserker Lord's changes for this paragraph since they really do make this paragraph sound better)

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Destiny Bond can be used over Will-O-Wisp to get a surprise KO after Mismagius is weakened. Sacrificing Mismagius for a KO can also help when an offensive or defensive Pokemon is threatening your team. Leftovers can be used over Life Orb if you want Mismagius to last longer, since it will still 2HKO most leads; however, the power is preferred in most cases. Another possible option is to run Hidden Power Ground to do more damage to Steelix, Registeel, and Aggron, but Will-O-Wisp can usually handle those threats.</p>

    <p>Mismagius has a lot of mid- and late-game utility. Often Mismagius can cripple its counters with Will-O-Wisp and proceed to sweep late-game once they are sufficiently weakened. Mid-game, Mismagius can also be used to punch holes in the opponent's defenses. Mismagius shares counters with Pokemon like Alakazam, so if you manage to cripple the opponent's Milotic or Spiritomb with Mismagius, they can be in trouble.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Stallbreaker
    move 1: Taunt
    move 2: Will-O-Wisp
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Pain Split
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    ability: Levitate
    evs: 252 HP / 80 SpA / 176 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Mismagius is most commonly seen as a potent sweeper, this set attempts to make use of its high Speed, precise support movepool, and excellent collection of immunities to turn it into a versatile utility Pokemon. Mismagius can wreak play havoc against defensive Pokemon while still packing enough bulk to check offensive threats. It is the only spinblocker in UU who has both access to Taunt and the Speed to use it against common spinners, preventing them from using Foresight. Mismagius can also cause significant grief to stall teams, due to Will-O-Wisp inflicting constant damage to nearly everything while covering Mismagius's lackluster Defense, and Taunt blocking any attempt to heal or phaze. Finally, Mismagius makes a great initial switch-in to Fighting-types, although mispredicted switches into physical attacks such as Stone Edge will still pummel Mismagius.</p>

    <p>This Mismagius plays very differently from more offensive variants. It can actually beat several common switch-ins that expect a more offensive set, such as Registeel and defensive Spiritomb. On the other hand, it needs to tread carefully against several threats that an offensive variant could steamroll, such as Arcanine and Blaziken. Ideally, Mismagius should be brought in on a move that it is immune to, or on a weak special attack. It can then Taunt to prevent the opponent from using any status or set-up moves, after which it is free to burn the opponent and use Pain Split to heal itself after taking a few hits. If your opponent lacks powerful physical attackers that are faster than Mismagius or Pokemon that are immune to burn, you can repeat this cycle until their his entire team is thoroughly weakened. Note, however, that Pain Split will very often prove unreliable; an intelligent opponent might sacrifice a low HP Pokemon just to ensure that Mismagius cannot heal. In this case, you should simply switch out to preserve Mismagius's health.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A few changes can be made to this set while still preserving its purpose, but note that the set presented above is the most optimal for general use. Changes are not recommended unless you are certain that your team needs Mismagius to cover the specific niches mentioned below.</p>

    <p>The EV spread and moves can be tweaked so that this set functions more offensively. Thunderbolt or Hidden Power Fighting can be used over Pain Split with an alternate EV spread of 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe. This spread is best used on offensive teams which focus on stacking multiple layers of Spikes, as Mismagius will still serve as an excellent spinblocker against less offensively-inclined spinners while not being setup fodder for dangerous threats like Swellow and Houndoom. However, this spread is substantially frailer than the recommended spread, and the lack of Pain Split means that this version's survivability is very low compared to the primary version, particularly against stall.</p>

    <p>The set could also be taken in the other direction with a bulkier spread of 252 HP / 160 SpD / 96 Spe. This variant loses some power and a substantial amount of Speed speed for increased special bulk, allowing Mismagius to switch into more powerful special threats. Life Orb Venusaur's Leaf Storm, for instance, drops to a 3HKO (factoring in the Special Attack reduction and Leftovers), allowing Mismagius to avoid Sleep Powder via Taunt and heal with Pain Split. The Speed EVs allow Mismagius to outrun all Venusaur and anything else in the base 80 Speed group or lower. However, due to the lower Speed, faster Fighting-types such as Toxicroak and Hitmonlee can now strike first before Mismagius can burn them. Therefore, this variant should only be used with the understanding that Fighting-types are no longer dealt with as efficiently.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Calm Mind
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Calm Mind
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Ground
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    ability: Levitate
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Why use Calm Mind when you can use Nasty Plot? The answer is the ability to set up on special attackers. For example, a 0 Special Attack EV'd SpA Uxie's Psychic will always break Mismagius's Substitute, so against Nasty Plot Mismagius, a player can sacrifice Uxie, keeping Mismagius's Substitute down, and then bring in a faster Pokemon to revenge. When faced with Calm Mind however, Uxie is forced to flee, and Mismagius can face whoever comes in next with a Substitute up. With a bit of luck, even offensive powerhouses like Moltres can be set up on if they are paralyzed. Although less immediately dangerous than the Nasty Plot set, Calm Mind Mismagius distinguishes itself by allowing Mismagius to safely set up on more UU Pokemon forcing the defender to respond (I wasn't really sure what you meant by this, since Mismagius is general forces the opponent to respond. I guess you maybe meant respond in a different manner, but yeah, I'm not too sure).</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The choice of coverage move is similar to the Nasty Plot set. Thunderbolt provides fine neutral coverage and also hits Milotic, although if Milotic does not have Haze Mismagius can happily stack Calm Minds and finish it off with Shadow Ball. Hidden Power HP Fighting hits Registeel, Clefable, and Steelix, but forces an imperfect Speed speed IV. Hidden Power HP Ground is primarily for Drapion, but maintains coverage on Steel-types while leaving a perfect Speed stat. However, Calm Mind's slow boosting rate means they will all easily survive and hit back. Because the allure of Calm Mind lies with keeping a Substitute intact, Taunt is not a good choice on this set, and the same applies to Life Orb.</p>

    <p>While Calm Mind CM Mismagius gains the ability to set up on a larger part of the metagame, the loss in power does make it more vulnerable to its counters. As such, a counter-to-the-counter is even more important. Once again, Donphan, Rhyperior, and Steelix are good choices. Although one can make an argument for screen support with all set-up sweepers, this Mismagius can boost its own Special Defense, so Reflect support gets a special mention to help buff Mismagius's unboosted Defense stat.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Trick
    move 2: Shadow Ball
    move 3: Thunderbolt
    move 4: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Ground
    item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid / Modest
    ability: Levitate
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>A quick glance through Mismagius's counters reveals reveal that, with the exception of Choice Band Spiritomb, all of them hate Trick. Since Mismagius's most common set is Nasty Plot, and since Nasty Plot Mismagius is deadly enough that its counters are forced to switch in early, Mismagius can surprise the opponent with a Choice set. The fact that Mismagius has plenty of independent merit is much welcome as well; (Replace Hyphen with a semi colon, colon, or dash)- high Speed and Special Attack, in addition to three immunities, lets Mismagius hit hard, revenge kill and pull off mini-sweeps. Choice Specs Mismagius packs a lot of power with STAB Shadow Ball off over 500 Special Attack special attack, while Choice Scarf Mismagius is actually fast enough to outspeed the slower Swift Swimmers in the rain, making it a potent revenge killer.</p>

    <p>Ideally, Choice Mismagius will identify the other team's counters early in the game before catching them with Trick later, opening up the other team so Mismagius or another Pokemon can sweep. Mismagius is also fast enough that Trick can often be used as a last-ditch check to many set-up sweepers. Be warned, though: astute opponents can deduce Mismagius's set from the damage it deals, so Trick may not hit its intended target.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Trick is a natural move on a Choice set, made even more necessary since it will incapacitate many of Mismagius's normal counters. With three moves available, all three standard attacks are used, with the choice of Hidden Power once again to cover Drapion or Clefable and Chansey. Thanks to the multitude of Pokemon in the base 95 Speed category and below, maximum Speed is necessary on the Choice Specs set, but the Choice Scarf set can go with a Modest nature for extra power.</p>

    <p>Choice Mismagius can handle its normal counters to some extent, but Pokemon with Pursuit are a massive pain. There is nothing Mismagius can do about it other than to be unpredictable. For example, while Absol can survive Mismagius's Shadow Ball, it is 2HKOed by Thunderbolt. The resulting 50-50 choice between Sucker Punch or Pursuit (on Absol's part) and attacking or switching out (on Mismagius's part) at least gives Mismagius a chance of surviving. In the same vein, it may sometimes be preferable to predict the opponent switching to a Pursuit-using Pokemon and double switch. Choice Mismagius is also considerably more vulnerable to status. As such, a status absorber or a cleric can be helpful.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Mismagius has several other viable options. The most notable is a weather set, with extra support in the form of Heal Bell. While the pixies, Uxie and Mesprit, are more common weather supporters, Mismagius does have a higher base Speed speed and access to Taunt, making it harder to stop it from setting up its desired weather effect disable. Mismagius gets access to Memento as well, which can get a weather sweeper in safely afterwards. Another major option is perish trapping, Misdreavus's signature set back in GSC. Although the strategy is unreliable, it can be wondrous when it works. Mismagius's high Speed lets it use Substitute to help stall out the Perish Song turns, or even play as a makeshift revenge killer with Shadow Ball. Screen support, especially Reflect, is very helpful for perish trap Mismagius.</p>

    <p>On the offensive side, Mismagius gets Energy Ball, which can be used to hit Gastrodon, Quagsire, Lanturn, (Add Comma) and Rhyperior. It also hits Donphan hard, which is especially significant because Mismagius may have to block Donphan's Rapid Spin. However, it does lose 15 Base Power base power compared to Thunderbolt, which is not inconsiderable. Mismagius also has access to the priority moves Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch, but with Mismagius's a mere base 60 Attack they tend to be a waste of a moveslot. Finally, Destiny Bond can buy Mismagius a surprise double KO or perhaps time to set up a Substitute, but Mismagius's other options are generally more powerful.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Although Mismagius's counters are numerous, it has enough of a movepool to defend itself against them. Spiritomb can easily switch into Mismagius and hit it with Pursuit or STAB Shadow Sneak or Sucker Punch priority, but unless it has Dark Pulse it will not enjoy a skirmish with Will-O-Wisp Mismagius. Mixed Houndoom with Pursuit and Sucker Punch can trap Mismagius while not fearing Shadow Ball and Will-O-Wisp, but a predicted Hidden Power will hurt, especially if Stealth Rock is up. Mismagius is also faster and can use Substitute to scout for Sucker Punch. Specially defensive Drapion, Registeel, (Add Comma) and Steelix all survive the best a +2 Mismagius can do and hit back, but they also need to be careful of switching into Will-O-Wisp. Clefable is bulky enough to take a +2 Hidden Power and force Mismagius out with Encore, but it is somewhat vulnerable to Taunt. Chansey cannot touch a Mismagius with Taunt or Substitute, but it can conceivably stall Mismagius out of PP, especially if Mismagius uses Hidden Power Ground as its coverage move. Finally, although they will be are maimed by the encounter, with heavy investment in Special Defense, Arcanine, Venusaur, and Torterra can take on Mismagius and come out alive.</p>
  8. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
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    will stamp

    [​IMG]

    [GP 2/2]

    Thanks SilentVerse!
  9. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Implemented check :)

    What I meant by "forces the opponent to respond" is basically what I described about min SpA Uxie's Psychic. You can't stay in with Uxie vs. CM Mismagius, so you have to switch out, thereby "responding" to the opponent (vs. NP Mismagius you can stay in and spam Psychic without caring what Mismagius is doing). I'll rewrite your way though, that can cause no confusion.
  10. Oglemi

    Oglemi I ask consent before I thrash anuses.
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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    uploaded

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