Ladder Mix and Mega

[Zephyr Dragon Lord]

As I recall, Smeargle was banned for the ability to mega evolve TWICE. Once with Dragon Ascent, and the other with a Mega Stone. It was a bit of a mess, though it might be better with a single mega stone... (or maybe Banettite says no...) Manaphy was, and still is, too powerful for the metagame to handle, and it largely came down to guessing the mega stone to even have a chance at beating it. Obviously, that was very unhealthy...

Dragonite does more than use a new Fairy Extremespeed. It could also wield a Flying type one.

....Actually, it uses just about every legal mega stone pretty well, so predicting a Dragonite in a competitive environment is extremely tricky. The Pidgeottite set specifically takes on most of the listed counters to the Altarinite set above with a combination of Hurricane and Thunder. You can test it if you want to, but it will probably end up banned again in a few days.

And now, for some various thoughts from someone who has played this before...

-I think Volcanion deserves a B+ ranking at the very least, and for its Diancite set alone. 130 speed might not seem like much, but paired with 170/190 offenses, it is terrifying for an unprepared team. It even can smack Blissey pretty hard with a Superpower. 80/80/50 defenses are not the best, but at least they allow Volcanion to take a resisted extreme speed. The main problem it has is with dragons, and even those can be hit pretty hard with a coverage move on a possible switch.

-Aggronite should be considered on Tyranitar. Most people are content to simply lob a Fairy type E-Speed at the behemoth and be done with it, but replacing the Dark typing with a Steel one changes this entirely, and makes Tyranitar pretty competent defensively, particularly with the sandstorm up. It may fall to a Close Combat or an Earthquake, but regular Tyranitar would not want to take those hits, either...

-The lower echelon of Pokémon are pretty unexplored, and should necessarily be counted out from discussion just because they are not (seen as) good in standard play. For example, I've used a SpDEf Aggronite Vespiquen, and it actually worked pretty well early on. ...Except for the surviving Entei part. And handling steel types in general. (It does deal with Refrigerate Weavile and Kyruem exceptionally well, though.) When this remerges as the OMoTM, I'll add more to the underutilized section, and if I find some other hidden gems.

 

[G-Luke]

Manaphy and Dragonite should say banned, soley because your basing your argument on one single stone.

Manaphy has already proven that it can beat the traditional checks and counters to the Absolite set with Sceptilite and Blue Orb. Thats out of the question that its broken.

Dragonite also can easily beat the mons you listed as checks by again holding other stones as well.

252 SpA Dragonite Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 264-312 (87.7 - 103.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Pidgeotite vs Pinsirite. Guareenteed OHKO after minimal chip damage.

Do I need to post a calc for Cobalion?

252 SpA Dragonite Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 222-262 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Pidgeotite vs Blue Orb
Starm doesnt even run this spread in standard.

Why would Scizor run Sablenite? If its running Sablenite, why would Dragonite use Earthquake? If your running that 248 / 60 defensive spread, how can Scizor hit it with maximum attack investment?

Here are some proper calcs.

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scizor: 331-391 (117.7 - 139.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 237-279 (73.3 - 86.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Pinsirite vs Blue Orb

Cant even get a guareenteed OKHO at +2...

Ferro always runs Blue Orb. Sometimes Heracronite. And it doesnt have leftovers recovery. And once again, why use EQ when it would use Fire Punch?

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Superpower vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 344-406 (97.7 - 115.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Pinsirite vs Blue Orb. Nice check. Even if a person wastes their Sablenite on Ferro...

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 344-408 (97.7 - 115.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 144-169 (44.5 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Nice check mate.

The calcs don't lie (well mine at least).

I can't provide calcs against the others, but thanks to Multiscale pre mega, it can safely set up a DDance and then smash the Espeeder hard with its faster and more powerful Espeed.

Dragonite can easily shift between "counters" and "checks" by switching up whatever Stones it chooses to hold. What checks Altarianite doesnt check Pinsirite, Salamencite or Pidgeotite.

Dragonite should stay banned Grains of Salt. And you should check out your calcs. Simple.

So anyways... My opinions on the other suspects, they should definately get a chance. I'm surprised that they didnt get a chance to get in themselves, since most metagames usually unban those particular Pokemon.

And to furthur add to the discussion and shift it away from this unbanning Dragonite and Manaphy nonsense.


Why not also unban

and

?

 

[Lcass4919]

i think genesect would be a cool addition to mnm, it sounds bad on paper "download boost PLUS speed increase" but genes pre mega speed tier is actually a HUGE letdown for it, and now checks and counters arrive who can take on the beautiful bug.heatran becomes a even BETTER counter...alongside new things like blissey, LR manaphy (for how long idk) LR suicune, alongside allready popular ubers who are used in the tier, like primal groudon(check obs) arceus, and blue orb steels.all in all, it might be "one of the best" but id say it wouldnt be broken in the slightest.

greninja is no discussion. unban it, it literally loses the reason it was uber in the first place lol.

 

[G-Luke]

Thats what I was thinking Lcass4919
Genesect would be a great addition to the tier without being broken. It might surprisingly utilize Salamencite or More possibly Glalicite if choosing the -ate route, as losing its Steel sub typing might do it more harm than good. For other stones, Pidgeotiteand Absolite makes excellent stones thanks to its excellent special movepool, and more niche Stones like Diancite for mixed sets. In general Genesect would be a viable choice and fresh alternative, but nowhere near broken.

Greninja sucks sooo hard sooooooo badly. Why was this garbage not unbanned from the beginning? Especially now since select Ubers like Hoopa-Unbound was allowed.

 

[Jajoken]

If you end up unbanning Blazikenite I think it makes sense to de-Uber Blaziken. It basically becomes a stronger version of Mega Sharpedo, Protecting in regular form to nab a Speed Boost or two, then evolving into whatever it wants to sweep with. It's predictable but strong. I'd be iffy about doing this without a legal Blazikenite, but if everything can have Speed Boost, Blaziken loses a lot of potential as a sweeper because being forced to evolve leaves it vulnerable to opposing Speed Boost users. Blaziken itself doesn't even have the best stats compared to some of the monsters in this metagame, and it would especially vulnerable to Dragonite (if unbanned) and other Aerilate Extremespeed users.

But yeah, free Greninja.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

i think genesect would be a cool addition to mnm, it sounds bad on paper "download boost PLUS speed increase" but genes pre mega speed tier is actually a HUGE letdown for it, and now checks and counters arrive who can take on the beautiful bug.heatran becomes a even BETTER counter...alongside new things like blissey, LR manaphy (for how long idk) LR suicune, alongside allready popular ubers who are used in the tier, like primal groudon(check obs) arceus, and blue orb steels.all in all, it might be "one of the best" but id say it wouldnt be broken in the slightest.

greninja is no discussion. unban it, it literally loses the reason it was uber in the first place lol.

I sincerely recommend against unbanning genesect. +1 ate techno blast is going to hit like a truck, it gets extreme speed, has a better form of dragon dance, and while it lacks coverage it does have blaze kick and the like. For goodness sake, altarianite techno blast 2hkos support don, a rather bulky resisted hit, without any set up or hazards.

 

[G-Luke]

I sincerely recommend against unbanning genesect. +1 ate techno blast is going to hit like a truck, it gets extreme speed, has a better form of dragon dance, and while it lacks coverage it does have blaze kick and the like. For goodness sake, altarianite techno blast 2hkos support don, a rather bulky resisted hit, without any set up or hazards.

While it is an excellent wallbreaker and or revengekiller, a -ate weakness and generally piss typing if it wants to get STAB -ate holds it back.

What I believe are its best options are

Mixed Glalicite
Shift Gear Salamencite
RP Pidgeotite
Mixed Altarianite

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-mixandmegasuspecttest-21781

And here is a replay showing the great wallbreaking power of Absolite Manaphy, smashing apart holes in teams for Zygarde to sweep (if I remembered Espeed)

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Manaphy and Dragonite should say banned, soley because your basing your argument on one single stone.

Manaphy has already proven that it can beat the traditional checks and counters to the Absolite set with Sceptilite and Blue Orb. Thats out of the question that its broken.

Dragonite also can easily beat the mons you listed as checks by again holding other stones as well.

252 SpA Dragonite Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 264-312 (87.7 - 103.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Pidgeotite vs Pinsirite. Guareenteed OHKO after minimal chip damage.

Do I need to post a calc for Cobalion?

252 SpA Dragonite Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 222-262 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Pidgeotite vs Blue Orb
Starm doesnt even run this spread in standard.

Why would Scizor run Sablenite? If its running Sablenite, why would Dragonite use Earthquake? If your running that 248 / 60 defensive spread, how can Scizor hit it with maximum attack investment?

Here are some proper calcs.

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scizor: 331-391 (117.7 - 139.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 237-279 (73.3 - 86.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Pinsirite vs Blue Orb

Cant even get a guareenteed OKHO at +2...

Ferro always runs Blue Orb. Sometimes Heracronite. And it doesnt have leftovers recovery. And once again, why use EQ when it would use Fire Punch?

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Superpower vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 344-406 (97.7 - 115.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Pinsirite vs Blue Orb. Nice check. Even if a person wastes their Sablenite on Ferro...

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 344-408 (97.7 - 115.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 144-169 (44.5 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Nice check mate.

The calcs don't lie (well mine at least).

I can't provide calcs against the others, but thanks to Multiscale pre mega, it can safely set up a DDance and then smash the Espeeder hard with its faster and more powerful Espeed.

Dragonite can easily shift between "counters" and "checks" by switching up whatever Stones it chooses to hold. What checks Altarianite doesnt check Pinsirite, Salamencite or Pidgeotite.

Dragonite should stay banned Grains of Salt. And you should check out your calcs. Simple.

So anyways... My opinions on the other suspects, they should definately get a chance. I'm surprised that they didnt get a chance to get in themselves, since most metagames usually unban those particular Pokemon.

And to furthur add to the discussion and shift it away from this unbanning Dragonite and Manaphy nonsense.


Why not also unban

and

?

I forgot about Greninja haha. Genesect seemed very powerful on papar. Setting up to +2 in both speed and special attack in one turn is a lot, though Primal Groudon would just... not give a fuck. I'd like to see some sets for it, mostly for curisotiy. I dont really have an opinion.

Unless people provide any counter-arguments I'd like to unban Aegislash, Landorus-I, Greninja and Deoxys-D. None of them really stand out in the metagame, Aegislash is nice and all but lacks recovery, I ran a latiasite set to counter Dragonite with Sub toxic and King shield, and it was way too easily widdled. The fact that it's insanely passive is a big issue as well. It doesn't touch any steel type at all. Landorus-I is mostly outclassed by Landorus-T physically and being specially powerful is nothing new, Sheer force + Life orb is probably more powerful than any other stone. Plenty of counters as well. Greninja is trash without protean. Deoxys-D is nice, but its complete taunt bait. I'm doing this mostly because MnM is a permanent ladder, it should have its own ban list independent of OU.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

OK, for better or worse, Dragonite is legal right now so I'm tentatively going to say S Rank for it. It can run the iconic Pinsirite / Salamencite Dragon Dance set we all know and hate, but it can also run a Pidgeotite lure set (better bulk and movepool than Tornadus) and even a bulky Defog set with Aggronite. It can run a lot of different sets and it can run them all well, and that's pretty much textbook S Rank. Deoxys-S I'm thinking A+ / S, it's easily the best Spike Stacker - with the Ampharosite it can set them against anything and Taunt to prevent Defogging. The Ampharosite also makes it much less passive with the +50 SpA bonus, and as tropius pointed out Psychic / Dragon gives it some useful resistances in Fighting, Water and Electric.

Since the Blazikenite's been unbanned (at least for now) I thought we could have a look at Pokémon who can use it effectively.

Landorus-Therian @ Blazikenite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Protect / U-turn

185 base Attack and 111 Speed let it outrun everything at +1, and at worst 2HKO everything bar maybe Blue Orb Skarmory after a Swords Dance. Earthquake gets STAB; Stone Edge hits the Bug and Flying types that resist it. Protect can be used to guarantee the Speed Boost, while U-turn can let you grab momentum.

Metagross @ Blazikenite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt / Ice Punch
- Protect / Ice Punch / Hone Claws

While Metagross may lack Landorus's great offensive typing, it makes up for that with its superior bulk and resistance to -ate Speed. 175 base Attack lets you clear up late game, while base 90 Speed is enough to outrun Absolite Manaphy at +1. Meteor Mash is the main STAB move. Earthquake hits the Steel, Fire and Electric types that resist Meteor Mash. Zen Headbutt hits bulky water types hard; Ice Punch can be used for Dragonite and Landorus-T. Protect guarantees the Speed boost, while Hone Claws can be used for more power and to stop Meteor Mash missing.

 

[G-Luke]

View attachment 68304
I forgot about Greninja haha. Genesect seemed very powerful on papar. Setting up to +2 in both speed and special attack in one turn is a lot, though Primal Groudon would just... not give a fuck. I'd like to see some sets for it, mostly for curisotiy. I dont really have an opinion.

Unless people provide any counter-arguments I'd like to unban Aegislash, Landorus-I, Greninja and Deoxys-D. None of them really stand out in the metagame, Aegislash is nice and all but lacks recovery, I ran a latiasite set to counter Dragonite with Sub toxic and King shield, and it was way too easily widdled. The fact that it's insanely passive is a big issue as well. It doesn't touch any steel type at all. Landorus-I is mostly outclassed by Landorus-T physically and being specially powerful is nothing new, Sheer force + Life orb is probably more powerful than any other stone. Plenty of counters as well. Greninja is trash without protean. Deoxys-D is nice, but its complete taunt bait. I'm doing this mostly because MnM is a permanent ladder, it should have its own ban list independent of OU.

G-Luke having no counters is nothing new, right? If we were to ban pokemon if they had no counter that list would be enormous. Dragonite, in its entirety and the wast-ness of its sets has no counters, I guess. But neither does Darkrai, Xerneas, Primal Groudon, Arceus-N and Ho-oh. In reality there's more to pokemon than simply hitting hard. Also don't get at me with that Pidgoet crap lol. Dragonite runs two sets, Salamencite, Pinsirite and Altarianite with a mix of Extreme Speed, Earthquake, Roost, Dragon dance, Protect, Superpower, Fire punch, Ice punch and Dragon tail. Anything else had less than 1% usage. If you want the exact numbers.
View attachment 68289 View attachment 68288

Theoretically Dragonite has no counters, in practise you'll be fine with your current team. Like, here, let me showcase some pokemon that atleast counter one or more sets of Dragonite based on the usage above. And Pidgotite is just a dumb argument to ban Dragonite, you're simply using it was a worse Tornadus-T or something. It's not used. (To specify, some beat one or more set, but lose to others. Varying from checks to counters)

View attachment 68290 View attachment 68295 View attachment 68291 View attachment 68292 View attachment 68293 View attachment 68294 View attachment 68296 View attachment 68297 View attachment 68300 View attachment 68301 View attachment 68298 View attachment 68299 View attachment 68302 View attachment 68303 View attachment 68307 View attachment 68306 View attachment 68305 View attachment 68308 View attachment 68309 View attachment 68310 View attachment 68311 View attachment 68312 View attachment 68313 View attachment 68314View attachment 68304

Just try some of them, you might see that it doesn't dedicate more of a move slot than shit like Zygarde or Entei, they all have almost identical counters.

No GoS you are misinterpreting the Pidgeotite set. I dont mean its a common set or its better than its Espeed sets. What I'm saying it can used to lure in and defeat common checks to the various Espeed sets due to the nature of Pidgeotite. And Pigeotite is actually a fine wallbreaker, so its not like I'm suggesting suboptimal sets. Its just not as viable, but its still potent.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Seems like most people agree with you guys anyways, I will not be unbanning Dragonite and Manaphy :] Are there any objections with unbanning the following:

and Blazikenite?

Reluctant to try Sky-min, using Pidgeot and Lucario's Mega stones it becomes extremely threatening. Anyways, vote MnM guys!

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Fine with all but Doexys S and D, possibly Gensesct but I think it deserves a test before saying for sure if it's broken. Also what about Skymin?

 

[Heavyweapons Mann]

I am curious as to why Lucario is banned? Is it solely because of -atespeed?

 

[Lcass4919]

yeah, id like a genesect test. where we unban it for a few days, to see how it fares in the metagame i forgot about technoblast tbch but bug/fairy and bug flying might be bad enough typings to mitigate its amazingness power

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I am curious as to why Lucario is banned? Is it solely because of -atespeed?

http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ost-1417-page-57.3540979/page-30#post-6333974

Here was the post announcing it, surprisingly enough it was made by me lol. In general it was ate speed yeah, Flying + Fighting is just amazing coverage only really resisted by electric/flying and steel/ghost. When it came down to it Lucario is far to versatile for Mix and Mega. Try and ignore all the council drama though :)

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

I will not be unbanning Dragonite and Manaphy :]

THANK GOD

as for the others, im fine with unbanning them but i feel like genesect, blazikenite, and deos shouldnt be unbanned at the same time and should be given a few days each to suspect. the rest are unlikely to be broken so im cool w/ them being unbanned for good

i also agree to not unban skymin, while it is a glass cannon thats not necessarily a bad thing (hoopau, for example) and its really powerful with the abiltiy to bypass special walls w/ seed flare drops.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

OK VR Update

Manaphy: gone

Klinklang: Up to B- (Solid sweeper, but usually Cobalion's better as that can hit Steel types)

Let's discuss where the new drops might go, if they indeed stay. I'll add them in once the meta gets going again when it (likely) wins OMotM

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

The more i think about it actually, the more i'm against a genesect unban. It gets shift gear for boosting if you want that, download pre-mega, techno blast for physical walls, and coverage out the ass. 4 attacks is prob the best set, and it gets explosion to boot.
PDon bothering you?
184 SpA Aerilate Genesect Techno Blast vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 216-255 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
skarm?
184 SpA Genesect Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 306-360 (91.6 - 107.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
ferro?
184 SpA Aerilate Pinsirite Genesect Techno Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Blue Orb Ferrothorn: 165-195 (46.8 - 55.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
raikou?
+1 72 Atk Pinsirite Aerilate Genesect Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Red Orb Raikou: 131-154 (40.8 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

So basically Genesect can take out classic -ate counters with ease, and its few counters (Arceus-Rock/Steel, Venusaurite Zapdos, Slowbronite Blissey) and hard checks (Latiasite Heatran) are mostly rare, do barely anything else, or get decimated by Explosion, opening the way for other things to sweep. It would make things very hard for balance as now they need two dedicated ate counters--one for Gene, one for the other ates, in addition to being an excellent revenge killer and decent wallbreaker. Here's the set I was calcing with btw:

Genesect @ Pinsirite
Ability: Download
EVs: 72 Atk / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Techno Blast
- Thunder
- Filler (but Explosion seems like a great option)

I'm not sure if I made this very clear but basically what I'm saying is mons you would normally use anyway to check Genesect (standard ate counters+PDon+Red Orb Raikou) don't work as they're 2hkod, basically requiring a completely different slot dedicated to beating Gene. And then that mon is crippled by Explosion.

e: also wtf chrfal we already decided klinklang was getting a massive boost up to A rank, we had that discussion ages ago and that's the conclusion we reached.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

I never agreed to move it to A, that's too high. The reality is Cobalion and, to a lesser extent, Metagross can both do similar things to Klinklang and unlike Klink they can actually harm Steel types with Close Combat / Earthquake. Cobalion also gets STAB priority in Quick Attack. Shift Gear does give it a solid niche, but it is not A Rank. It's fine in B.

Also, Extreme Speed Genesect has to run Hasty Nature due to being event locked.

 

[G-Luke]

I really do not suggest running Thunder as a coverage option, at least T.bolt. The thing about Thunder is its Solely for Skarm, which is beaten by +1 Techno Blast anyways. I personally dont like Genesect giving up its excellent typing, which provides it with a PixieSpeed resist, which is goals for an offensive mon and a FridgeSpeed resist, which isnt as common but still can be useful. Pinsirite is more useful for sweeping though instead of mixed wallbreaking.

Genesect @ Glalitite
EVs: Cant think of Evs yet.
Ability: Download
Hasty Nature
- Techno Blast
- Extreme Speed
- Iron Head
- U-Turn / Fire Blast / Explosion

I believe everything except Deo-S and the Blazing Burd n Stone should be unbanned really, with Genesect getting a suspect.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

I never agreed to move it to A, that's too high. The reality is Cobalion and, to a lesser extent, Metagross can both do similar things to Klinklang and unlike Klink they can actually harm Steel types with Close Combat / Earthquake. Cobalion also gets STAB priority in Quick Attack. Shift Gear does give it a solid niche, but it is not A Rank. It's fine in B

If you'd like to read the discussion, here's my initial nom, and the rest of the discussion is on page 55. Nobody proposed anything below A-, and the dominant position was A, or at least people settled on A (like me). It 2HKOs Ferrothorn and Skarmory (the dominant steels) sets up on other steels, as well as quite a few other common things mentioned in this post, and is difficult to revenge kill after setting up. I can't see how it deserves anything less than A rank.

Mfw Klinklang is only in C Rank holy shit what is this
Nomming Klinklang to at least A Rank, I'd prefer A+ though
It really is that good. The Pinsirite set just sweeps teams, there really isn't much else to say lmao. It has the power to 2HKO both Ferrothorn and Skarmory at +1, and has the coveted Steel/Flying typing. It sets up so easily on so much--Blissey (watch out for TWave--to scout this you can run Sub tho), Garchomp, Zygarde, Scizor, Metagross, Latios, EKiller (w/o Overheat), Jirachi (again watch out for TWave, but I've mostly seen the Ampharosite sets with Wish/Protect/STABs), Salamence, Gyarados, Haxorus, Krookodile and so much more. It resists the 3 most common ESpeeds (Normal, Fairy, and Flying) and can usually live one neutral attack. It can also afford to invest in HP alongside Atk, as it outspeeds everything, including Deo-A, at +2 post-Mega with 0 Speed investment. Also most people tend to expect something that doesn't remove its Ground immunity (like Scizorite or Altarianite) fsr so that's a free Shift Gear.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-334956821
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/mixandmega-335595460

e: also i forgot it needed hasty, thx, but that doesnt change much tbh as it still boosts speed without taking away from its attack stats

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Klinklang isn't difficult to revenge kill tbh - most Electric types can do that without much fuss. Raikou is never OHKOed by any +1 Attack, and OHKOs with Thunderbolt most of the time in turn. Zapdos and Magnezone can counter it nicely, defensive Primal Groudon can easily take a +1 Return and OHKO back with Lava Plume (even if Klinklang's running 248 HP EVs). Metagross can also outpace Deoxys-A at +2 with no EVs, and it has much better bulk than Klinklang and more off the bat power. B+ is the highest I'm prepared to go for Klinklang, it's a good Pokémon but it's not as good as those in A Rank.

 

[sin(pi)]

Seems like most people agree with you guys anyways, I will not be unbanning Dragonite and Manaphy :] Are there any objections with unbanning the following:

View attachment 68321 View attachment 68317 View attachment 68320 View attachment 68319 View attachment 68322 View attachment 68324 View attachment 68323View attachment 68326 and Blazikenite?

Reluctant to try Sky-min, using Pidgeot and Lucario's Mega stones it becomes extremely threatening. Anyways, vote MnM guys!

I don't think Gene is wise, Shift Gear, Espeed, Techno Blast, Explosion are all excellent moves and it has passable coverage. Deo-S just seems like it would further push the tier toward HO. Blazikenite also vaguely wories me, as does Chicken itself, but Blaziken is probably fine and Speed boost is held in place by -ate currently so I guess I don't have any major problems with that? The rest are all fine imo, except possibly Smeargle.

tl;dr: keep Gene/Deo-S banned, suspect Smeargle/Blazikenite, unban the rest.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

I don't think Gene is wise, Shift Gear, Espeed, Techno Blast, Explosion are all excellent moves and it has passable coverage. Deo-S just seems like it would further push the tier toward HO. Blazikenite also vaguely wories me, as does Chicken itself, but Blaziken is probably fine and Speed boost is held in place by -ate currently so I guess I don't have any major problems with that? The rest are all fine imo, except possibly Smeargle.

tl;dr: keep Gene/Deo-S banned, suspect Smeargle/Blazikenite, unban the rest.

I tried out Smeargle in a battle earlier today, and I found it totally underwhelming. Spiky Shield is a must to give you space to mega, and without Focus Sash you're OHKOed by just about everything. Not to mention there's 3 mega stones that give Magic Bounce, making its job even harder. In practice, all it really does is set up one layer of hazards and die. As a Sticky Web setter, personally I find Banettite Shuckle a better choice.

 

[Neverman]

Will Aegiglash be unbanned?

Latiasite would be nice...