M&M Mix and Mega Suspect #2: Dragonite

Chloe

;w;
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#1
The Mix and Mega council has decided to suspect test Dragonite from holding Mega Stones.

Dragonite has proven to be an extremely potent threat within the Gen 7 Mix and Mega metagame. With access to a safety net in Multiscale to aid set up, and the deadly combination of Aerilate and Extreme Speed (commonly referred to as -AteSpeed); Dragonite has proven time and time again to be arguably too powerful for the metagame. The main Mega Stone Dragonite abuses is Pinsirite which allows it to reach insane levels of Attack and obtain the wonderful ability Aerilate. Teams may have to rely on opposing -ate users like Weavile, or bulky Foul Play users such as Mandibuzz to simply check Dragonite; this however, isn't the extent of its checks. Additionally, it is the premier sweeper in the current metagame and is beyond threatening, usually warranting two or more checks to account for various coverage, and after the checks are weakened, it can usually sweep.

Pinsirite: Aerilate | 91/164/115/110/120/100 (700 BST)
Salamencite: Aerilate | 91/144/145/110/110/100 (700 BST)
COIL: 2900 2750
B: 12

How many battles you'll need to make reqs:
Code:
GXE N
100 22
95 26
90 31
85 39
80 55
75 96
To determine the amount of games you'll need to play to obtain requirements, input your GXE into Google Calculator using the equation "N=12/log2(40*GXE/2750)".
Alternatively you can input your GXE into this.

Where do I post reqs?
Post your suspect requirements proof in this thread, along with your vote. Ban, No Ban, or Abstain in bold so it makes it easier to tell what your vote is when counting.
You do not require a specific username, any alt may be used, as long as you provide a screenshot of requirements and proof that the alt is yours.
For example:

Except yours will be real instead of forged.


Dragonite will be banned from holding Mega Stones on the suspect test ladder.
The suspect test will last for two weeks, ending on the 23rd March.


TL;DR.
- Suspecting Dragonite
- COIL requirement is 2750, B value is 12
- Dragonite will be banned during suspect testing process.
- Post reqs proof on thread, with vote in bold so it's easier to count.
- Suspect will end on 23rd March.

Good luck everyone!

The Immortal
 
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thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
#2
Finally! Pidge stone will help special attackers make a splash and hopefully help us beat stall teams with their annoying double sablenite cores. We'll see how broken Gengar, Darkrai, and other fast sleeping special attackers are. Also keep in mind pidge will help dnite as a possible set (kinda memey, but hurricane and other special moves are not too terrible and a good bait).

Steelixite is pretty useless though, so I don't see that affecting anything.
 

Chloe

;w;
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#5
question, how do I check my B value?
You don't need to check your B value. The B value is a number that indicates how many games it will require to reach a certain COIL with a given GXE, so it's not an individual value for each player. Just indicate what your vote is in your post.

the coil required for suspect test is crazy high imo for a ladder such as mnm...im already at 40-4 and only have 2600 coil. We need a more realistic reqs since this suspect will only be around 2 weeks
I was worried about that. If people do struggle to reach 2900 and it shows over the next few days, I may need to lower the COIL requirement.
 
#9
you should. u're the only one who didnt require ultimate hax or cancer ct
...I didn't even bring the counter team to be one of your defeats. I simply took advantage of one of your mistakes, and never ever let you rectify it. I believe this is why you have dual Defoggers, and also how offense can get the slip on good stall...

Anyways, time to ladder the rest of that way. I'll edit this post with the requirements, I think....
 
#10
...I didn't even bring the counter team to be one of your defeats. I simply took advantage of one of your mistakes, and never ever let you rectify it. I believe this is why you have dual Defoggers, and also how offense can get the slip on good stall...

Anyways, time to ladder the rest of that way. I'll edit this post with the requirements, I think....
hm, interesting...i was 100% sure Gyaradosite mew with roost/toxic/taunt/dark pulse was a straight up ct to me, but i guess it has its use..idk what it is, but im sure it does :I
 

Chloe

;w;
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
#13
I'm lowering the COIL requirement to 2750. 2900 has proven too difficult to obtain unless a user spends too many hours grinding, especially considering the activity of the ladder. I apologise to anyone who already reached the previous COIL requirement of 2900, for the extra time you had to spend laddering. You have nothing to worry about now though.


Confirmed as Smasher04
Do not ban
Also sorry Zephyr Dragon Lord for the cc >:D

Please ensure your image link is functional, as I cannot view your reqs.
 
#16
https://gyazo.com/a61887f7b597302ca398df353a1770ff

That's too many losses. I just had a bad time starting out, but I sill think 2900 is perfectly reachable if I need to (and I probably will still do it).

Anyways, be prepared for a pretty long post. It's not going to have calculations, but it will have pretty much everything else.



The Main Jig: An Extreme Speed Story​

Alright, my vote is to BAN Dragonite. The Pinsirite/Salamencite set, as you all know, has Multiscale in its base form. This makes it far easier for Dragonite to set up without hazards. Extreme Speed off of 134 + Mega Stone attack is pretty devastating to most offensive teams, particularly those lacking Weavile. (And Base 100 Special Attack is no slouch either; more on that later) You'll need a resistance to handle Dragonite, but Dragonite has access to Earthquake and Thunder Punch, and can often be seen running some sort of coverage, effectively allowing it to pick and choose its counters. And before you say Giratina or some other Dragon is safe, Dragonite can also opt to run Dragon Claw or Outrage (or Dragon Rush if you are a madman) as STAB. Essentially, it eclipses Mega Salamence. But I don't think this form alone really makes it too clear-cut of a ban. And therein lies my next point...

The Many Faces (and Heels) of Dragonite​

Dragonite is versatile as heck. It gets many moves from the physical, special, and support spectrum. Depending on what you use on it... Dragonite can do many things. It can priority enemies into dust, serve as a potent wallbreaker not even fairies are safe from, drop Draco Meteors and Hurricanes like it's nothing, adopt a Fighting type to completely mess up counters... and even serve as a cleric. Yes, you read that right. If you're willing to give up on Multiscale and egg moves, Dragonite gets access to Heal Bell. And now, let's expand on what exactly I mean by versatility by going over the highlights...

Versatility:Present​

First, I'll begin with that simple Charizardite X set. It's nowhere near as well-rounded as the main set, but now loses a weakness to Rock, and gains Tough Claws out of the deal. Naturally, Outrage and Dragon Claw HURT from base 180 attack and Tough Claws. And Fairies are not safe either; they need to deal with Iron Head and Earthquake. And Dragonite can still run Extreme Speed, if it wants to.

Mewtwonite X sets are also possible when it wants to mess with Arceus-Rock and friends. While it ends with a staggering 214 Attack, it's also left weak to -ate speed and needs to choose to either sacrifice power or reliability with its Fighting-type STAB, but it's still a threat regardless, as well as a lure.

Blue Orb sets are nice for weather/Agility, but do leave its stats something to be desired on the Special side. For now, Absolite and Blastoisinite remain the best (and still viable!) options for special attackers. The former grants Dragonite Magic Bounce, completely messing up any attempts to status Dragonite, and allowing it free reign to practically its whole movepool, while the latter grants Dragonite powerful Dragon Pulses to unsuspecting foes. It also powers up any other special attacks, but none of them are pulse-based.

While some of these options are better than others... the real scary part are the mega stones that come afterwards.

Versatility:Future​

Yes, I know. We shouldn't talk about theorymonning. But we have seen Dragonite go ham with these options before. In a mere two weeks we get one of Dragonite's best deviant sets: Pidgeotite. This gives Dragonite the ability to launch powerful Special moves like Hurricane without fear of missing (and possibly Dynamic Punch, too), taking its usual counters by surprise as they get hit with a Blizzard, Hurricane, or just a Draco Meteor. While it has no sleep moves to abuse with this stone, it doesn't need them.

And yes. There is a stone scarier than that one. AGGRONITE. Granting Dragonite the coveted Steel type, it doesn't just make it bulkier... it eliminates ALL of its former weaknesses. (It can also act as the sole Dragon cleric in Mix and Mega, too) And this is where the brutal mindgames start. As it releases... every single game with a Dragonite results in a guessing game as to its variant. Send in Arceus-Rock for a Salamencite variant? Too bad; STAB Iron Head accompanies your resisted Judgement. Send in a Fire or Ground type to take Dragonite's blows? Too bad; it's an -ate variant, and is now KOing your entire team.

Speaking of -ate, Altarianite is also a viable option, and has seen use in Generation 6. It completely changes what walls Dragonite, sans Steel-types, which mostly are donked by Earthquake anyways.


Conclusion (If you don't want to read that wall of text)​
So yes. Dragonite has many aspects to its dominance, and there's not much at all that covers its best sets, and nothing at all that can cover all of Dragonite's sets. Not even Weavile manages this, as it is bodied by Aggronite sets. (even Low Kick won't be guaranteed to save you, due to Filter reducing that damage!) Hopefully that covers every possible leak that springs up about Dragonite. Some of these sets are far better than others, but they can all take people out, given a good opportunity...
 
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thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
#17
Confirming as thesecondbest (got a few more losses than i'd like so i had to reach number 3 on the ladder lol, stall is mean)
Voting no ban. Dnite is good and everything, but I don't think it's broken. We have bigger problems right now, such as primal groudon, double sablenite, etc. Dnite isn't even the best ate user imo, i would say genesect is. It also has shift gear and espeed, and even techno blast. Dnite is bulkier though, and as Zephyr noted, it has a nice movepool. But no set is as good as atespeed, and I don't think ate speed is broken on dnite. The other sets are too slow, relying on getting up a dragon dance, and even then are vulnerable to priority. And getting up hazards against offense is usually pretty easy because of how broken primal groudon is, so multiscale is usually not a worry. I don't know, I actually wish Dnite was legal on the suspect ladder. Then I would be more informed. But all I can say for now is no ban (and stall is mean).
 

Attachments

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
#23
MnM reqs.JPG
MnM reqs 2.JPG

-> Ban
Dragonite is just to centralizing for it too stay in the metagame imo. Alongside Genesect, it requires specific checks that can only check specific variants of its DD sets. Defensive Zapdos and Mandibuzz? Stone Edge deals a shit ton at +1, Arceus-Fairy? +1 Frustration is able to 2HKO it (and it can setup on it once thanks to Multiscale). Hell even seen some variants run Ice Beam to blow back defensive Zygarde-C. Yes it cannot run all these moveslots at once obviously, but the pressure it applies on the opponent to scout which coverage moves it chooses to run besides Espeed and usually EQ is really severe. To me its worse then the other setup -atespeeders such as Zygarde and Lucario due to it having so many opportunities to setup with Multiscale + its typing gives it a lot of key resistances. The suspect ladder was so much better without it and actually lead me to create more diverse teams instead of tending towards the generic methods to "check" it (bc if u don't then u get destroyed by it) and this would be healthy if thats the case since its natural that a top tier threat requires answers to it on every team. But the problem here is just how easily Dnite is able to circumvent these answers, leaving there to be not much else to deal with it.

Edit: here is coil showing 2750
Screenshot_2017-03-21-16-53-13.png
 
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Laxpras

Young Metro Trusts Me
is a Pre-Contributor
#24


I tried to use cool teams, kept taking L's, then I started using Catalina Wine Mixer again and it still absolutely dominates this meta (It's really funny watching people groan when they see the team)... Also I have a cheeky change for no dnite which makes it even better, I'll update if dnite goes for good.
BAN, obviously, how has it taken this long? Chloe. don't you know you can just gerrymander the council to ban what you want?
 
#25
I'll Vote Ban, I've always wanted to play M&M and this suspect was the perfect opportunity. Now I have never played MNM when Dragonite was allowed, but if theres one thing I can say is that Aerilate is such an overwhelming threat. In fact is was the major reason for most of my losses. I honestly cant even imagine how broken Dragonite must be with it, since it seems like dragonite is the perfect mon for it, with set up, bulk and incredible attack with STAB and coverage. Also shout Out to Laxpras, since I just loved your team and got my reqs with it.